Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[SWFLSkins]

 

[SkinsFTW]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I will end up one of the top 20 fans of the dude defending him on a future Alex Smith thread --if some people remain consistent about what they think the QB is responsible for as to wins and loses.

 

 

 

 

 

Reminds me of being totally against hiring Shanahan but then by 2013 somehow being one of the few defending him against the Rg3 horde. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

28 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Reminds me of being totally against hiring Shanahan but then by 2013 somehow being one of the few defending him against the Rg3 horde. 

 

I think that was basically my position too.

 

It's just something else Snyder does consistently. He hires a coach he never should have hired and then cuts their balls off in a feud with a player.

 

He's the only owner in the league who consistently gets the hiring and firing process wrong.

 

The one truly positive thing about Jay Gruden is that he was a defensible hire and they have seemingly treated him like a human being since he got here. He seems to have navigated this cess pool pretty well.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

The one truly positive thing about Jay Gruden is that he was a defensible hire and they have seemingly treated him like a human being since he got here. He seems to have navigated this cess pool pretty well.

Which is an often overlooked positive when the peanut gallery gets going on how dumb the coach is because the team's not "playing with fire", "prepared", the playcalling is trash, etc.

 

It takes a special personality to make it in Ashburn the amount of time he has.  Hopefully he doesn't leave here worse than when he came in like every other coach Snyder has hired during his ownership. 

[Llevron]

I feel like a large part of his staying power has been Bruce. Im not really that impressed with him as a coach but we could be alot worse. 

[BrandonJ83]

1 hour ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

I'm wondering now if we do have a legit shot at a tag and trade on Cousins. Before the Jimmy G deal, no one though 34.5 mil was a number anyone would trade for Cousins at but Grappolos 7 starts can't be worth more than Cousins full body of work. I don't think Alex Smith's money goes against the cap until 3/14. We can tag Cousins by 3/6 and deal him before then maybe at the combine. If something happens and he won't sign the tag you could always rescind it before 3/14. I think it's worth a shot cause if I were the Browns I wouldn't want to go against teams like Denver or Jax in free agency. Trading for Cousins would avoid that and allow them to get there guy. 

 

Of course this all hinges on him signing the tag.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

But if you're the Browns why would you want to pay him 34M for one season if he tells you that's all he's willing to play for you?  Which would be the smart move for him to make.

 

I don't see how the Jimmy G deal changes anything with the Skins leverage.  All that deal did was potentially make Kirk richer in the long run.

[Dan73]

With Scot M in Cleveland they are not trading for Cousins.

 

Reading NFL.com yesterday most pointed out Jimmy G is a better quarterback.  He elevated his team something Cousins doesn't do.

 

Someone will over pay for Cousins but I don't see it being the Browns.

[Skinsinparadise]

I was listening to 980 just now, Stephen Spector is a producer of the main sports station in KC was on Sheehan's show.  His take on Alex Smith:

 

A.  Good guy.

B. Check down Charlie to a tee.  Doesn't take chances.

C.  Everyone needs to be perfect around him to win

D.  He has no clutch gene.  He will fail in the big moments

E.  His career year last year is likely an outlier - K. Hunt, (T. Hill -- wide open) I read somewhere the Chiefs had the best Wr separation in the league last year.

F.  He might take you to the playoffs but you are going nowhere in the playoffs with him.  

G. Thrilled he's gone.

 

I heard Spector on 106.7 on a different segment saying the Redskins got fleeced in the deal.

 

Personally, from my watching Alex I think that's harsh.  I like the dude.  But just like Sheehan's producer said about that interview, Spector came off to a tee like the rabid anti-Kirk calls they get.

 

I am rooting for the dude.  But watching the anti-Kirk people should be an interesting ride because I don't think I've seen such an apples to apples criticism of two players.  It's almost word for word.  It's like the naysayers meet on exactly the same points about the two players -- like they are cousins -- no pun intended.  But I disagree with the critics on both fronts. 

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

59 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But if you're the Browns why would you want to pay him 34M for one season if he tells you that's all he's willing to play for you?  Which would be the smart move for him to make.

 

I don't see how the Jimmy G deal changes anything with the Skins leverage.  All that deal did was potentially make Kirk richer in the long run.

The Skins don’t have leverage in that way. It’s other teams that could conceivably desire a trade with the Redskins. Again, because they could guarantee securing his rights and not enter a bidding war on the open market. Maybe all the teams who covet cousins are content to maybe lose out on his services and have a Plan B. I would bet against it though. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

The Skins don’t have leverage in that way. It’s other teams that could conceivably desire a trade with the Redskins. Again, because they could guarantee securing his rights and not enter a bidding war on the open market. Maybe all the teams who covet cousins are content to maybe lose out on his services and have a Plan B. I would bet against it though. 

But how do they win a bidding war if the player makes it clear he won't play for them long term?

[Dan73]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was listening to 980 just now, Stephen Spector is a producer of the main sports station in KC was on Sheehan's show.  His take on Alex Smith:

 

A.  Good guy.

B. Check down Charlie to a tee.  Doesn't take chances.

C.  Everyone needs to be perfect around him to win

D.  He has no clutch gene.  He will fail in the big moments

E.  His career year last year is likely an outlier - K. Hunt, (T. Hill -- wide open) I read somewhere the Chiefs had the best Wr separation in the league last year.

F.  He might take you to the playoffs but you are going nowhere in the playoffs with him.  

G. Thrilled he's gone.

 

I heard Spector on 106.7 on a different segment saying the Redskins got fleeced in the deal.

 

Personally, from my watching Alex I think that's harsh.  I like the dude.  But just like Sheehan's producer said about that interview, Spector came off to a tee like the rabid anti-Kirk calls they get.

 

I am rooting for the dude.  But watching the anti-Kirk people should be an interesting ride because I don't think I've seen such an apples to apples criticism of two players.  It's almost word for word.  It's like the naysayers meet on exactly the same points about the two players -- like they are cousins -- no pun intended.  But I disagree with the critics on both fronts. 

 

 

If Cousins and Smith are close to being the same type of quarterback then Smith is still better for the Redskins. He has signed a contract that provides stability and gives the Skins money to sign players all things Cousins wasn't providing. 

[BrandonJ83]

1 hour ago, Dan73 said:

With Scot M in Cleveland they are not trading for Cousins.

 

Reading NFL.com yesterday most pointed out Jimmy G is a better quarterback.  He elevated his team something Cousins doesn't do.

 

Someone will over pay for Cousins but I don't see it being the Browns.

Forgot about Scot being in Cleveland. Maybe some other team? It's definitely wishful thinking at this point to think we'll get anything from Kirk. I'll just be glad when it's all over. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

If Cousins and Smith are close to being the same type of quarterback then Smith is still better for the Redskins. He has signed a contract that provides stability and gives the Skins money to sign players all things Cousins wasn't providing. 

 

I'd agree if:

 

A. Alex Smith were the same age as Kirk

B.  they didn't give up a high third round pick for him

C.  They didn't give up a cheap and their up and coming best young player on defense

 

Then its apples to apples.  But those three items in a pesky way get in the way of that narrative.

 

 

[BrandonJ83]

1 hour ago, Dan73 said:

With Scot M in Cleveland they are not trading for Cousins.

 

Reading NFL.com yesterday most pointed out Jimmy G is a better quarterback.  He elevated his team something Cousins doesn't do.

 

Someone will over pay for Cousins but I don't see it being the Browns.

Forgot about Scot being in Cleveland. Maybe some other team? It's definitely wishful thinking at this point to think we'll get anything from Kirk. I'll just be glad when it's all over. 

[Darc Requiem]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd agree if:

 

A. Alex Smith were the same age as Kirk

B.  they didn't give up a high third round pick for him

C.  They didn't give up a cheap and their up and coming best young player on defense

 

Then its apples to apples.  But those three items in a pesky way get in the way of that narrative.

 

 

The caveat is whether or not Kirk was willing to sign in DC. If Kirk wasn't willing to sign with the Redskins then all this supposition is moot. It takes two tango. At the beginning of this fiasco Kirk wanted to deal and the FO didn't. Kirk gets franchised and the situation flipped. The FO wanted to deal and Kirk didn't. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

30 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

If Cousins and Smith are close to being the same type of quarterback then Smith is still better for the Redskins. He has signed a contract that provides stability and gives the Skins money to sign players all things Cousins wasn't providing. 

Player(s)?  Exactly how much less do you think Alex Smith is making than what Kirk is going to get?  Even if Kirk does get the 30M on the open market, the difference between him and Smith is Stacy McGee and 40% of Terrell McClain.

 

This is another narrative that is wild to me, that Alex's contract is so team friendly the team can go on a shopping spree.  While Smith's 2018 # is going to be much better than that of what Cousins will be, the windows close a good bit thereafter.  Salary aside, they have to make up for the loss of a top notch slot corner that was making 750K a season.  They also have to make up for the 3rd rounder they lost that could have been a cheap contributor as well.  Team is still going to have to make some tough decisions and draft well.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Darc Requiem said:

The caveat is whether or not Kirk was willing to sign in DC. If Kirk wasn't willing to sign with the Redskins then all this supposition is moot. It takes two tango. At the beginning of this fiasco Kirk wanted to deal and the FO didn't. Kirk gets franchised and the situation flipped. The FO wanted to deal and Kirk didn't. 

 

Whether its Bruce was a douche in the negotiation.  Whether Bruce was dense as for not foreseeing how contracts would escalate.  Whether Bruce was in a staring contest with Kirk's agent and lost.  Whether Bruce didn't want to deal Kirk to SF in 2017 because he didn't want Shanny to have the last laugh.   Whether Bruce was dumb to play the franchise tag game twice. 

 

Pick your narrative.  We've had people close to both sides of the action tell variations of all of this.  So the idea that Kirk's agent turned the tables on Bruce (as Mike Lombardi said happened to Bruce back when he worked with him in a previous stint) thus we can't judge all of this that harshly?  Since they might have been at the point of no return?  How did they get there, though?  Tough for me to forget all that led to that point since that's the dude who made all those bad decisions is now also making other decisions that i am supposed to trust?

 

I've said for months based on the narratives that guys close to the action kept saying -- its plausible that at this point Kirk doesn't want to come back.  Keim IMO has been the most interesting follow on it.  He's been on this point since the press release that Bruce put out -- that Bruce squandered his good will which he was rebuilding until that action.  My first instinct when I heard about the release was Kirk is gone.   Part of me hoped otherwise but deep down I thought it was a long shot after that day.

[Dan73]

21 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Player(s)?  Exactly how much less do you think Alex Smith is making than what Kirk is going to get?  Even if Kirk does get the 30M on the open market, the difference between him and Smith is Stacy McGee and 40% of Terrell McClain.

 

This is another narrative that is wild to me, that Alex's contract is so team friendly the team can go on a shopping spree.  While Smith's 2018 # is going to be much better than that of what Cousins will be, the windows close a good bit thereafter.  Salary aside, they have to make up for the loss of a top notch slot corner that was making 750K a season.  They also have to make up for the 3rd rounder they lost that could have been a cheap contributor as well.  Team is still going to have to make some tough decisions and draft well.

We have young corners on the roster and the draft coming up.

 

So Smith and 2 players vs one Cousins.

 

If the Skins lose Cousins flat out there could be a comp pick or there could be a trade..

 

Plus we have Smith to work with whomever we draft. When the Chiefs drafted a qb in the first round last year there were not stories about Smith feeling all butt hurt in fact just the opposite.  Given how Cousins felt about being drafted here and his ongoing hurt feelings could he be trusted to work with the next guy?

[Fat Stupid Loser]

33 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Player(s)?  Exactly how much less do you think Alex Smith is making than what Kirk is going to get?  Even if Kirk does get the 30M on the open market, the difference between him and Smith is Stacy McGee and 40% of Terrell McClain.

 

This is another narrative that is wild to me, that Alex's contract is so team friendly the team can go on a shopping spree.  While Smith's 2018 # is going to be much better than that of what Cousins will be, the windows close a good bit thereafter.  Salary aside, they have to make up for the loss of a top notch slot corner that was making 750K a season.  They also have to make up for the 3rd rounder they lost that could have been a cheap contributor as well.  Team is still going to have to make some tough decisions and draft well.

The team is worse now with this trade and will save virtually no money. Certainly not enough to make any difference. But we can still win 7-10 games, maybe. I'm betting Alex's best year in his 13th year is the outlier, not that he suddenly made the jump in his 13th year. He will revert to his very average norm.

[LightningBuggs]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was listening to 980 just now, Stephen Spector is a producer of the main sports station in KC was on Sheehan's show.  His take on Alex Smith:

 

A.  Good guy.

B. Check down Charlie to a tee.  Doesn't take chances.

C.  Everyone needs to be perfect around him to win

D.  He has no clutch gene.  He will fail in the big moments

E.  His career year last year is likely an outlier - K. Hunt, (T. Hill -- wide open) I read somewhere the Chiefs had the best Wr separation in the league last year.

F.  He might take you to the playoffs but you are going nowhere in the playoffs with him.  

G. Thrilled he's gone.

 

I heard Spector on 106.7 on a different segment saying the Redskins got fleeced in the deal.

 

Personally, from my watching Alex I think that's harsh.  I like the dude.  But just like Sheehan's producer said about that interview, Spector came off to a tee like the rabid anti-Kirk calls they get.

 

I am rooting for the dude.  But watching the anti-Kirk people should be an interesting ride because I don't think I've seen such an apples to apples criticism of two players.  It's almost word for word.  It's like the naysayers meet on exactly the same points about the two players -- like they are cousins -- no pun intended.  But I disagree with the critics on both fronts. 

 

 

 

From my point of view, that summary pretty much nails it. Smith had a lot of weapons around him this year, including his TE who is one of the best in the game.

 

He's right that the team around him needs to be perfect and that's clearly not the case in DC.  If it were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Kirk is good enough to have led a perfect team to the playoffs as well.

 

And I said the night of the trade that the Skins got fleeced so no argument from me there either.

[Rufus T Firefly]

If I bought the idea that the trade could be evaluated as Smith being Cousins plus the cap space (I don't), then I suppose the question would be if I believed we could sign a player as good as Kendall Fuller for the amount we saved. Which I don't.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

There are so many moving parts in this deal.

 

If the choice is, go with Colt Freaking McCoy or make the deal, you make the deal. Twice. You give them another player too just as a thank you. I think it was Czabn who made the point that Smith allows you to have a season.

 

If the choice is Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith, I think Cousins is better, but you may think Smith is better. I'll go with slightly more aggressive and younger versus older and safer. If the trade is player for player, it's a bit of a wash.

 

When you factor in what could have been if the Skins had just signed Cousins two years ago, I think the deal makes you want to pull your hair out. That's when the deal becomes Cousins, Fuller, the pick for Smith and some cap relief, which is a lousy deal.

 

Also, for the new guy, what is your opinion of trees on public land? Nice or pain in the ass?

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was listening to 980 just now, Stephen Spector is a producer of the main sports station in KC was on Sheehan's show.  His take on Alex Smith:

 

A.  Good guy.

B. Check down Charlie to a tee.  Doesn't take chances.

C.  Everyone needs to be perfect around him to win

D.  He has no clutch gene.  He will fail in the big moments

E.  His career year last year is likely an outlier - K. Hunt, (T. Hill -- wide open) I read somewhere the Chiefs had the best Wr separation in the league last year.

F.  He might take you to the playoffs but you are going nowhere in the playoffs with him.  

G. Thrilled he's gone.

 

 

O God i cant relive the Jason Campbell era again!!!! PLEASE TELL ME THIS ISN'T TRUE!!!

 

 

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But how do they win a bidding war if the player makes it clear he won't play for them long term?

Lets say Denver approaches the Skins and says we'd like to trade for KC if you guys are interested in tagging him but we need assurances that he'll sign with us long term. Will you give us permission to talk with him? This would be similar to how we got Alex Smith....I can see a scenario where it's possible this happens. This allows Denver to lock up their QB so they can plan for free agency and the draft. Maybe all they offer is a swap of 1st round picks? Maybe they offer to throw in the third we lost in the Smith deal? Not a huge price to pay for keeping KC off the market.