Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

People should learn not to get emotional about players.

 

Management and ownership got emotional about RGIII and that was bad. Now fans are getting emotional about Cousins.

 

Neither quarterback took the team to the Superbowl. No one player is worth crippling a team over.

 

I think most people are upset about the dysfunctional clown show ride relating to both players.   Neither case played out normal.   It's much more about that than any emotional attachment to any player.   Players come and go but the crazy rodeo coming from the top has remained.  I can't speak for everyone of course but reading the posts for months -- most of the angst is related to that.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

25 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

 

Management and ownership got emotional about RGIII and that was bad. Now fans are getting emotional about Cousins.

 

Neither quarterback took the team to the Superbowl. No one player is worth crippling a team over.

 

I'm of the belief that a lot of Kirk's critics are the emotional ones.  They've always used twisted logic to demean his value.  Now he's a greedy traitor that nobody likes and deserves to be traded to Afghanistan even if it means risking the Skins cap to do so.

 

Much of what's been shared by folks like me is based on facts and rationale specifically related to just how poorly the Skins handled him.  Kirk or no Kirk, the team would be in a much better place if they simply crapped or got off the pot a while ago.  Refusing to credit the FO with "making the best" out of a bad situation they created is not being emotional.  The message is consistent with what we've been saying for years now.  If they didn't like Kirk enough to lock him up with a legit contract, then trade him and get some value in return. 

[markmills67]

We need around 6 new quality starters on the Redskins next year, we are not going to get that paying cousin's $30m a year. Smith at around $20m per year is a great deal, and I actually think there isn't much difference between Smith and Cousin's so that's a good 8/10m a year saved for similar production. Smith going forward and draft a QB in 19/20 and take it from there. With Smith at 17m we could get Logan 7m and Pugh 6m for the 30m Cousin'

 Would get if he gets the same as Grappola in San Fran.

 

HTTR 

 

 

[wit33]

Details of deal will be interesting to see.

 

The niners did a deal of value to their individual situation by going against the grain. Many will say they did what the market is requiring for a QB, but I’d imagine if they had a roster with players of value on their second contracts, this decision would’ve tougher.

 

Super young roster with ample cap space makes some sense. I’d imagine the deal will be front loaded, allowing for what they hope will be championship at bats in years 3,4,5. 

 

Point for me is the deal isn’t crippling to their cap due to the current state of their roster and flexibility with cap right now AND...

 

Do what is best for YOUR roster. Dont worry about what others are doing (granted, I understand awareness needs to be had with the market, but it shouldn’t be a deciding factor)

 

**The Packers and Falcons are losing their minds right now. Lol

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@markmills67 Interesting use of rounding #'s there or has there been updated figures provided?.  Alex Smith's deal is 20M per?  Last I checked its 23.5M APY. 

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@markmills67 Interesting use of rounding #'s there or has there been updated figures provided?.  Alex Smith's deal is 20M per?  Last I checked its 23.5M APY. 

 

It is. But his cap number this season is 17 mill. It does give us some flexibility to front load some contracts during this upcoming free agency period. Should we elect to even be heavily involved in the market. I think we will target a WR and guard for sure. The rest of the new players will most likely come from the draft IMO.

[Dan73]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think most people are upset about the dysfunctional clown show ride relating to both players.   Neither case played out normal.   It's much more about that than any emotional attachment to any player.   Players come and go but the crazy rodeo coming from the top has remained.  I can't speak for everyone of course but reading the posts for months -- most of the angst is related to that.

Everyone was so happy after the first season with RGIII. If it had worked out it would have been seen as genius by the fans. 

 

Every team goes through some sort clown show type crap 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

Everyone was so happy after the first season with RGIII. If it had worked out it would have been seen as genius by the fans. 

 

Every team goes through some sort clown show type crap 

First of all, I disagree that every team goes through some sort of clown show type crap.

 

Secondly, The Redskins have been consistently going through clown show type crap for Dan's entire ownership.

 

If it had worked out...

 

Can't you say that about everything that doesn't work out?  That's kind of the point, we're constantly looking at if things had worked out and not things that actually do work out.

[Dan73]

24 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I'm of the belief that a lot of Kirk's critics are the emotional ones.  They've always used twisted logic to demean his value.  Now he's a greedy traitor that nobody likes and deserves to be traded to Afghanistan even if it means risking the Skins cap to do so.

 

Much of what's been shared by folks like me is based on facts and rationale specifically related to just how poorly the Skins handled him.  Kirk or no Kirk, the team would be in a much better place if they simply crapped or got off the pot a while ago.  Refusing to credit the FO with "making the best" out of a bad situation they created is not being emotional.  The message is consistent with what we've been saying for years now.  If they didn't like Kirk enough to lock him up with a legit contract, then trade him and get some value in return. 

The Skins offered him contracts. Kirk and his agent kept getting there was more to be had next year.

 

Kirk and his agent only have Kirk to worry about. The FO has to think about a whole team.

 

I am glad about the QB situation now. Take the money and resign Brown and any other player that is a team player.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

"Maybe next year will be the year"

[Dan73]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

First of all, I disagree that every team goes through some sort of clown show type crap.

 

Secondly, The Redskins have been consistently going through clown show type crap for Dan's entire ownership.

 

If it had worked out...

 

Can't you say that about everything that doesn't work out?  That's kind of the point, we're constantly looking at if things had worked out and not things that actually do work out.

Pay more attention to the league.

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@markmills67 Interesting use of rounding #'s there or has there been updated figures provided?.  Alex Smith's deal is 20M per?  Last I checked its 23.5M APY. 

 

Its 22.2mil APY.

 

5/111 in total.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Dan73 said:

Pay more attention to the league.

 

I do.  Being a football fan would be rather depressing if the only thing I paid attention to was the Redskins.

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Its 22.2mil APY.

 

5/111 in total.

Sounds better than 23.5 but we'll have to wait and see what the real GTD $ is when the time comes. 

[Dan73]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I do.  Being a football fan would be rather depressing if the only thing I paid attention to was the Redskins.

Then you would see discontent and stupidity everywhere. 

 

The Patriots since the Jimmy G trade have been an on going saga.

 

Jones's fight with Goodell. 

 

The Colts have a coach a few hours later nope.

 

Those are just a few I can name many more.

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I do.  Being a football fan would be rather depressing if the only thing I paid attention to was the Redskins.

Why so many coaching and GM changes in the NFL? It’s the norm for these positions to change faces within 3-5 years. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Dan73 said:

Then you would see discontent and stupidity everywhere. 

 

The Patriots since the Jimmy G trade have been an on going saga.

 

Jones's fight with Goodell. 

 

The Colts have a coach a few hours later nope.

 

Those are just a few I can name many more.

I'd much prefer the type of "discontent" the Patriots have going on, if that's what you want to call it.

 

Jerry is absolutely an asshat, but at least Jerry knows enough to employ better people than Dan.

 

The Colts...well, yeah - they are in the same ballpark.  Except at least their asshat owner hired a legit football guy to run things.

 

Pretty much any scenario you see as stupidity, the Redskins can 1 up it and/or have a longer history of it.  For the record, Redskins fans should never be in the business of pointing fingers.

[OVCChairman]

3 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

Then you would see discontent and stupidity everywhere. 

 

The Patriots since the Jimmy G trade have been an on going saga.

 

Jones's fight with Goodell. 

 

The Colts have a coach a few hours later nope.

 

Those are just a few I can name many more.

are you saying that the Pats are a clown show?  

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'd much prefer the type of "discontent" the Patriots have going on, if that's what you want to call it.

 

Jerry is absolutely an asshat, but at least Jerry knows enough to employ better people than Dan.

 

The Colts...well, yeah - they are in the same ballpark.  Except at least their asshat owner hired a legit football guy to run things.

 

Pretty much any scenario you see as stupidity, the Redskins can 1 up it and/or have a longer history of it.  For the record, Redskins fans should never be in the business of pointing fingers.

as much as we disagree on this is one thing I absolutely cannot argue

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

Everyone was so happy after the first season with RGIII. If it had worked out it would have been seen as genius by the fans. 

 

Every team goes through some sort clown show type crap 

 

If you think Dan-Bruce operate just like any other FO/team, normal stuff, nothing different -- then you will be frustrated by most people's opinion here.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'd much prefer the type of "discontent" the Patriots have going on, if that's what you want to call it.

 

Jerry is absolutely an asshat, but at least Jerry knows enough to employ better people than Dan.

 

The Colts...well, yeah - they are in the same ballpark.  Except at least their asshat owner hired a legit football guy to run things.

 

Pretty much any scenario you see as stupidity, the Redskins can 1 up it and/or have a longer history of it.  For the record, Redskins fans should never be in the business of pointing fingers.

 

God, how great would it be if Dan was a pill head like Isray?

[Dan73]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'd much prefer the type of "discontent" the Patriots have going on, if that's what you want to call it.

 

Jerry is absolutely an asshat, but at least Jerry knows enough to employ better people than Dan.

 

The Colts...well, yeah - they are in the same ballpark.  Except at least their asshat owner hired a legit football guy to run things.

 

Pretty much any scenario you see as stupidity, the Redskins can 1 up it and/or have a longer history of it.  For the record, Redskins fans should never be in the business of pointing fingers.

Yesterday sports talk ratio  was all Belichek being forced out.fights between Butler and Belichek and Brady and Belichek. 

 

Heck be it spy gate deflate gate there seems to be drama almost early.

 

Seems the drama does not bother you as much as losing, and Cousins was never going to win us games unless they started giving you points for yards thrown.

[OVCChairman]

Just now, Dan73 said:

Yesterday sports talk ratio  was all Belichek being forced out.fights between Butler and Belichek and Brady and Belichek. 

 

Heck be it spy gate deflate gate there seems to be drama almost early.

 

Seems the drama does not bother you as much as losing, and Cousins was never going to win us games unless they started giving you points for yards thrown.

5 SB championships, 8 SB appearances, serious consideration for GOAT for HC and QB....  

 

having drama is one thing, humans are dramatic by nature... but that's a lot different than 'discontent and stupidity.'  

[Dan73]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you think Dan-Bruce operate just like any other FO/team, normal stuff, nothing different -- then you will be frustrated by most people's opinion here.

No sense in getting frustrated. This place is just like watching a game when I don't like content I can turn it off.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Dan73 said:

No sense in getting frustrated. This place is just like watching a game when I don't like content I can turn it off.

 

Doesn't seem like you are turning it off.  When I turn things off, I typically don't bother debating.  

 

You are working to make a case that there is nothing wrong with how Dan-Bruce operate.   Forgetting our opinion on it -- I gather the local and national media is in on the conspiracy to unfairly stigmatize the Redskins as a punch line.   Heck as I mentioned the Redskins even got mentioned on CNBC recently as a metaphor for how not to run a business.

 

If all these people have it wrong -- it must drive Dan-Bruce nuts about the strange and out of place way all these people from so many corners mislabel them.  Granted the W-L record hasn't been hot during their stewardship.  That's all incidental.  They know what they are doing.  We should chill.   

 

 

[joeken24]

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

This is what you call making a mountain out of a molehill to make yourself feel better about the thought that haunts the back of your mind, Kirk going on to do great things while this franchise continues to do Bruce things.

 

The team literally just spent 3 1st round picks in the very same draft to move up and acquire a quarterback.  Every player wants to go to a team where they at least have a chance to play.  Given what the Redskins just gave up, he knew damn well that his only legit shot to play would be due to injury.  Sure if you're a fringe NFL guy just hoping to make a team in camp, you're happy just to be recognized.  But if you're a competitor, you want a chance to play.  It doesn't mean you think you've arrived and are entitled to be the man. 

Beep beep!!!! Brain Alert!!!!.....

 

This is no mole hill. It may not be a mountain. But it sure ain't no mole hill.....It speaks to who Kirk thinks he is. 

 

Case in point:

Only 5 years ago, Kirk didn't want to be drafted by the Redskins. That's a fact.

 

Fact: Kirk was a fringe NFL guy. He was taken in the 4th round!! (that means 31 other teams passed on him 3 times!!). Have you really considered the audacity of Kirk (after being passed over 3 times)  saying to Shanahan are "you sure you want to do that?"  Shanahan should have said, "nah, I changed by mind", hung up the ****ing phone and called Le'veon Bell! (As if Kirk had teams knocking down his door.....sheeesh!)

Think about this **** for a minute.

"Are you sure you want to do that?" is the first response from Kirk during the initial call from Shanahan (a SB winning coach who took the time to call him personally) telling him that he had been chosen by the Washington ****ing Redskins!! WTF???

No other coach in the league thought highly enough to pick him before the Redskins. And Kirk is disappointed....holy ****!! 

That story is fairly comparable to the infamous conversation between RGIII and Shanahan. But hell, at least RGIII had done something before he made a demand to play a certain way. Kirk hadn't even been drafted and was openly questioning the Redskins' decision to pick him. A mole hill? I don't think so. Again, it speaks to who Kirk "thinks" he is.

 

Secondly, an extremely large percentage of players coming out of college are competitive (just like Kirk) and want a chance to play in the NFL. But they rarely make back handed demands (about where think they should play) to a team that picks them - on ****ing draft day no less!!! Who does he think he is? A first pick?

 

So fast forward 5 years, I still think Kirk is delusional about his FA status. I think Kirk is Matt Flynn in waiting.

 

Here's a couple questions:

1. Have you heard any GMs on any network talking about Kirk's ability other than Scott M who says "I don't see special?"

Oh yea, there was one other. Last year, the Browns GM said he had "zero interest" in trading for Kirk. That was at $24 mil/yr. Now the market is $6+ million more. So its fair to say that the Browns are off the table for this year (??)

2. Is Kirk better than Jimmy G who just got a 5 year $27 mil/yr contract? No 

3. What team is out there that will do a long team deal over $27 mil for Kirk if they can swing a trade for Nick Foles?

4. Are the Jaguars willing to pony up? Maybe. They may not be in the market to increase the pay to their QB. Right now, they went deep in the playoffs with a $19 million QB. If anything, why not spend about the same for a Bridgewater or Keenum? Your run game and defense don't require a big money guy at the QB position. 

 

I don't care where Kirk goes. And this Bruce crap is as old as the Kirk story. I refuse to worry about what the FO is doing when most of it is speculative at best. Again, I haven't heard anything from Bruce since last year. So to me, the "Bruce thing" is just "herd talk"

 

Another Kirk "me" Cousins moment:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2018/02/07/boy-does-free-agent-to-be-kirk-cousins-have-a-t-shirt-deal-for-you/

 

Another contradiction: 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kirk-cousins-its-not-all-about-money-qb-is-willing-to-make-sacrifices-to-be-on-a-winner/

Kirk did say that he had a responsibility to QB coming up after him to set the market. But now he's willing to make "sacrifices" to be a on a winner.  Which means he never considered this team since he didn't even negotiate the offer last year. That would have been making a sacrifice, right?

 

I can't wait to hear the dialogue when Kirk signs a lesser deal. He's going to have to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fordranger76]

1 hour ago, Stadium-Armory said:

 

If nothing else, the Kirk Cousins saga taught me that "prove it before I pay you" is not a sound strategy for QBs. That's what you're advocating. 

When we are talking close to 30 million dollars yeah. I want to make damn sure he is the guy. Don't think that's so crazy. Paying someone that kind of money in any field should cause a well thought out reaction.