Lets keep laughing at the Browns, while we can

[The Consigliere]

On 1/4/2018 at 8:30 PM, beachboy757 said:

Well yeah that would be nice but look at how much they have sucked to get those draft picks. Would you want to endure a 0-16 season? Our fans don't even like the thought of 8-8 or 9-7. How miserable would our media and fans be if the team won zero games? Sorry but at this point I am not envious of the Browns at all. If I see them trot out a team that can beat the Steelers and Ravens then maybe that will change. 

Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes. There is nothing literally nothing, worse than what we've been since 1993. It is far better to rock bottom it and get the assets necessary to rebuild properly than constantly float between 4-11 and 9-7 for three decades running, especially in a draft with legit franchise QB prospects like this one. Since we collapsed into irrelevancy in the later 90's we've seen total rebuilds from the ground up successful in Philadelphia (twice), New York, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, New Orleans, San Francisco (twice and about to be three times), LA/St. Louis (twice), Arizona, Seattle, New England, Pittsburgh, Cleveland-Baltimore (twice, sort of), Indianapolis, Houston/Tennessee, Denver, Oakland, and San Diego (twice).  Yes I would like to implode and rebuild it right, hell yes. 0-16 and then hope? Far, far better than what we've done. Instead, we've floated around like the Jets, the Bills, the Dolphins, Lions ('08 exempted), Bears, Bengals, and Browns, nearly always out of the playoff picture, and rarely bad enough to give phones genuine hope that an answer is just around the corner. We snugly fit in the NFL's bottom five over the past 25 years w/o a second thought, and we're one of the few teams that's essentially always been there, rather than occasionally peeking out, beyond the curtain.

 

0-16, especially in a good draft class for QB's like 2004, 2012, and 2018, there's nothing better than that for a team seemingly without hope. The worst is what we have been. I don't get how anyone can't see that, unless you're young. I'm 43 and this team hasn't been relevant on the NFL stage since I was a junior in High School. In modern sports there's really only three places to be: rock bottom, building from having just been rock bottom a year or two ago, or a perennial contender. We've rarely ever fit into any of those transition zones except for 1994-1997, 2010-2013, and 2015-2016. Otherwise it's been a meandinger dumpster fire of no hope, no light, just darkness.

 

0-16 is one season. After 24 years of this garbage, what's one more season of it, if it provides genuine hope? I'd gladly take the misery of 0-16 to stop the slow, bleeding 24 year death that has been my redskins fandom since I graduated high school in 1993. 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

On 1/4/2018 at 10:56 PM, CjSuAvE22 said:

You forgot to mention Josh Gordon...what a beast...I’d trade all our tight ends and receivers for him..of course that would be a poor trade for the browns.

One positive test away from a permanent ban. Just can't do that, but yes, he's a beast. I think he's an RFA. Not sure. 

[The Consigliere]

On 1/5/2018 at 8:42 AM, Boss_Hogg said:

The Washington Redskins are the only team in the NFL without a true football minded GM. 

 

The Browns used to be that other team when they hired the mathematician dude from "Money Ball" and the junior lawyer, Sashi Brown.  

 

The Browns will find success before we do because they now have FOOTBALL PEOPLE making decisions, not a party planner, not a politician, not an angry midget, not a retired QB who has no idea why he's here, etc

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong. The Browns ARE in the position they are in because they have a math guy running the show. 17 years of the luddite review is what got them to the point that they went analytics, and analytics is what genuinely delivered them their first chance at success in nearly 30 years. 

 

I do agree w/your critique of the Redskins. Not your critique of the Browns (assuming I'm reading it right). 

[The Consigliere]

19 hours ago, bobandweave said:

I get the premise, they are on paper positioned well to become a good team but this is the Browns we are talking about.

 

They have some talent on the team, have one of the most expensive offensive lines, have Josh Gordon and Duke Johnson but this is the Browns and no one should be looking at them as some model of how to be a good football team. They are a model of what not to do as a football team

 

Point one - Head coach. Why does everyone think that Hue Jackson is some sort of QB whisper? I have no idea how in this league this guy gets credit for Andy Dalton. Hue was the Special teams coach when he got his job with the Bengals a year after they drafted him!

 

Hue Jackson has won one game in two seasons not by some grand tanking purpose but because he doesn’t know how to find QBs and when he does he runs them into the ground immediately like he did with Kizer this year. That guys confidence is shot after being thrown to the wolves way too soon and leading his team to a winless record. 

 

Point is if the Browns turn this moneyball into anything it will be by drafting yet another QB and actually getting it right something they never do. why waste a second on Kizer last draft? Makes no sense.and shows they can’t and shouldn’t be trusted in that regard

 

I am not sold on the head coach and think it was a no brainer to fire him after a winless season. How he kept his job when coaches who had better results lost theirs makes no sense to me. Who wants continuity when it’s one win and thirty one loses in the past two seasons lol

 

Point two - The Browns have had tons of picks in the past and never found a way to use them right. What makes anyone think they are going to suddenly figure out how to draft? More picks doesn’t make a team smart. The Browns are the worst team in the NFL for a reason. The Browns continue to do stupid things. Either by passing on guys they think aren’t good like Wentz, Goff, and Watson just in the past two drafts they show they don’t have any idea how to build a team. They also Don’t know how to build even a good defense or a capable offense. And they Don’t know how to hire coaches or fire them either. Nothing about this team says they are going to suddenly become a team like the Steelers or Patriots and find continued success in this league

 

Having lots of picks means nothing if you don’t know how to spot talent. This is the Cleveland Browns. This is the team that last won ten or more games over a decade ago and only once since 1994; who have only had two winning seasons since rejoining the league in 1999; who won only fifteen total games over the past five seasons; and haven’t been in the playoffs for fifteen years the longest drought in the league.

 

Im sure there are people who think that this is the Browns year and those same people always think that but come on. It’s the Browns

 

1. This is a good point. Jackson had a bad experience in Oakland, and now he's won a minimum of potential games with the Browns. I don't know if he's Norv Turner type but he's very similar in terms of plaudits and results. He's not an answer and the lack of humility at his press conference was galling.

 

2. They had a hit and miss draft in 2016 but played it well booking a giant load of picks in future drafts of greater depth of talent. Yes they passed on Wentz, Goff, and Watson and it was for good reason. All three of them were similar to the 2006 stud QB prospects in that they had first round grades, but would not have been top 5 let alone top 2 QB's in elite QB drafts. Wentz had tons of warts, Goff had huge concerns and Watson had terrible throwing velocity and accuracy issues, and looked like the umpteenth example of a college winner without the arm throwing tools to make it. They booked their picks for the '18 class because the '18 class was viewed as similar to the top of the '15, '12, and '04 drafts in terms of top end QB prospects. What is wrong with that? They pulled the trigger on Kizer because going into the fall of 2016 Kizer was #1 or #2 on most QB boards and suffered a down year in no small part because he'd lost Will Fuller and Prosise to the 2016 Draft and had few weapons to deal with (St. Brown has the same issue this year as a Notre Dame WR, his QB was all world horrible and his #'s imploded, destroying his draft stock, much as Kizer's struggles without weapons ruined his stock). 

 

3. I'd agree with the indictment of the Browns not knowing what to do with it in the past, but not so much now. I thought their '16 draft was solid, and excellent if you add in the futures they acquired. The '17 draft was even better.

 

'16:

Coleman-#1 WR on most boards in 2016. Great pick.

Ogbah-One of the better pass rushing prospects in 2016. 

Nassib-fast rising prospect after exploding onto the scene in '15 as one of the best pass rushers in all of college.

Coleman-Started 16 games this year at OT.

Kessler-Yuck! I hated this pick. Idiotic.

Schobert-Solid producer

Wr's R. Louis, R. Higgins, and J. Payton-Higgins and Louis were the interesting prospects. Nothing has come of them other than two big games from Higgins at the beginning and end of '17.

Devalve: Excellent TE prospect, steal at that slot.

Scooby Wright-I loved that guy but he never made it.

 

'17:

Garret: Looks like a monster

Peppers: Up and down year. I would have taken Cook or Mixon with that pick.

Njoku: Future absolute monster TE, top 3 potential at the position, maybe better.

Kizer: Good value flyer at QB to see if you could avoid QB in '18. Didn't work out.

Ogunjobi: Developmental Prospect

H. Wilson: High upside prospect with issues.

Brantley: A lot of redskins fans wanted him. Sounds like major mental make up issues but lots of talent. 

Dayes: Interesting RB prospect.

Roderick Johnson: That late in the draft, he was well worth throwing a dart at.

 

For me, I liked 14 of those picks at slot, and loved 5 of them. I think they were on the right course, and were criminally stupid in firing Brown. When they brought in him and Moneyball, they knew the approach would take at least 3 years since they were doing a complete tear down and rebuild from scratch. Idiot owner fired the wrong guy, the guy who got them the assets and the players they will find success with and kept the coach that couldn't do squat with the talent. Completely rear end backwards approach, still, it will be hard to screw it up at this point, hopefully Dorsey is up to the task, I know he's up to the task of taking credit since he's come across as a colossal scumbag in early comments to the press. Arrogant piece of garbage who had zilch to do with the rebuild is going to take credit if it works, and blame Moneyball and Brown if it doesn't. Sounds like Snyder and Allen if you ask me. 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

They were 0-16 in an era of parity in professional sports that is unrivaled. More new teams make the playoffs every year than ever before.

 

0-16, they are doing EVERYTHING wrong.

 

 

 

 

THEIR LEADERSHIP APPROVED A PARADE FOR BEING 0-16...They're doing it wrong, period, end of story, end of thread.

 

They went 1-31 on purpose. The whole point was a complete tear down and rebuild from scratch. You can't do that without sucking completely and thoroughly in the short term. 

 

Nope. This thread will be around for a while because if they solve QB and use the picks usefully to a league average or a touch below rate they'll be NFC North Champs by 2019.

 

Then it will be end of thread. 

[bobandweave]

5 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

They went 1-31 on purpose. The whole point was a complete tear down and rebuild from scratch. You can't do that without sucking completely and thoroughly in the short term. 

 

Nope. This thread will be around for a while because if they solve QB and use the picks usefully to a league average or a touch below rate they'll be NFC North Champs by 2019.

 

Then it will be end of thread. 

 

They haven’t tanked on purpose. What they did was go into the 2016 draft and target the players who had elite collegiate production. Look into that, they used analytics to find players who led the nation in sacks, qb who was second in the nation in completion percentage, and on and on and it blew up in Browns face. Then in 17 Brown changed his tactics and went after players who on paper were elite in explosive plays. That didn’t work either.

 

The owner didn’t want to hand the keys to the 18 draft to a guy who the newest front office said something to the point of “never drafting real football players” when he insulted the two drafts you seem to believe in. If we are to believe that Dorsey is the savior of this franchise then how can you believe in those draft classes when he clearly does not?

 

Brown tried to use box score surfing to find NFL players and it didn’t work. If all it took was some playerprofiler advanced analytics then more teams would rule by it but it takes much more to find talent then that. If your a believer in those stats Brown has done more damage then good in proving that this strategy works and likely pushed any team back five years before we see it used again to draft

[Bonez3]

Can I get some sort of action on this 2019 division champ talk 

 

Imagine what type of parade ownership would throw than

[beachboy757]

Well I do hope this thread sticks around because it is quite interesting. So, apparently the model way to watch your so called favorite football team is to hope they lose every game, switch QB's every year, pass on good draft players for draft picks instead, fire coaches every two years, and fire your GM's repeatedly until you have the perfect situation to improve. The team building confidence or a winning culture off of wins means nothing when they can suck and be awarded with a much better prize in the draft.

 

I've learned there is no hope for the Redskins at all. It makes no difference what the coaches coach or what the players do on the field. As long as Bruce Allen is the GM the team will fail and even if Allen is gone we still have Dan Snyder. So they are doomed either way.

 

As fans we also need to also be bitter of every bad team in the NFL because they have better draft picks and will make their turnaround while the Redskins continue to be a lost franchise because of Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.

 

So starting next season the best way fans should look at the team is to view them as apathetic as possible because they suck anyway and always will. Should  equate to some entertaining Sundays. .

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I feel like I hear this kind of fluff piece about the Browns every year. Maybe they actually become a great franchise but if I’m honest, they suffer an even worse type of organizational rot from the top down than we do. They break anything with potential or talent.

 

wasn’t Holmgren there and wasn’t he supposed to turn them around too? 

[Tsailand]

I'll just leave this here. Perhaps someday Bruce will lead a similar parade.

 

 

 

 

[thebluefood]

 

[thebluefood]

The guy on the sidewalk with the "They Tried" poster - y'all I'm dyin'!

 

[thebluefood]

Best sign: at about the 44:00
"John 0:16" 

[ToaCommander]

I'd never laugh at the Browns. That could be us if we don't nail down the QB spot.

[TSO]

All the reports lately of various teams and how they’re approaching their GM hires has me absolutely green with envy. I don’t think Redskin fans know how a legit search and hiring process actually looks like. One in which the organization recognizes just how important the role is. 

 

I’m going to use this thread so we can all get a glimpse of what we’ve been missing. Here’s some of the recent stuff going on:

 

Packers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Giants

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Texans

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Berggy9598]

On 1/4/2018 at 4:00 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

The sad thing in retrospect is we did have the 2nd pick in the draft in 2014 but it was lost to the Rams in the RG3 deal.  But yeah the difference between having the first pick in the draft or even 2nd pick versus anything below that is typically huge -- especially when it comes to finding a franchise QB.

 

Take this year.  I want Kirk back.  But if they had the first or 2nd pick -- I wouldn't be crying since they had a shot at Darnold or Rosen.  And I am not a fan of trading a kings ransom to trade up for a QB because its screws up your future and that goes double if the QB you traded up for fails. 

 

But yeah Dan doesn't seem to have the stomach for a complete crash.  I am not even a little on board with letting Kirk go.  But there is nothing I'd hate more than doing that and also having some bandaid approach to the position that would keep the team afloat but on a ship to nowhere.    If Kirk goes -- I think crash.  Start over.  

 

People talk about building up other units, etc.  But we aren't the Vikings.  We aren't one or two good draft picks from having an elite defense.   We are bad everywhere at the moment.  We can't stop the run.  We can't run the ball.  Receivers are so so.  The special team stinks.

 

I think you can add to the roster (for example if the defense gets healthy and you add to it, I think it could be average) and be competitive with Kirk because at least you got a passing game.  But if you take the strength off of the roster -- then this is a bad team IMO.  

 

In true Daniel Snyder/Bruce Allen fashion, they didn't trade Cousins last off-season out of spite, which would have put us in position for Darnold or Rosen plus at least another first round pick, and now will lose him for nothing. Welcome to life with Harry and Lloyd running your football team. 

[Warhead36]

0-16 would be embarrassing, but if you're gonna suck you might as well SUCK. Completely bottom out and retool from scratch. It's what the Nats and Caps did and both are contenders in their respective sports(granted neither does well in the playoffs, but I'd love the Skins to even just be a year in year out playoff team).

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I agree with the OP. 

 

And to further salt the wound a bit, they modernized their uniform a couple years ago while keeping their classic look which gave them about 30 different fresh and sexy uni combos to use. 

[pjfootballer]

But, I don’t feel sorry for Cleveland fans. They have the Cavs and Indians. Two good teams. 

[zoony]

@thesubmittedone those tweets are depressing, man

 

Here is redskins search:  one of dannys cronies knows a guy who knew a guy.  Guy is brought to dannys mansion for a working dinner.  If guy looks good in a suit and is good at kissing ass, guy is hired

 

Danny wants to win!  He really wants to win!  

[Warhead36]

I like that Gettlemen is willing to clean house. I hate how whenever we do change regimes, we always leave guys over from previous ones. Just once I'd like to start fresh and new and just completely clean house.

[Berggy9598]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I like that Gettlemen is willing to clean house. I hate how whenever we do change regimes, we always leave guys over from previous ones. Just once I'd like to start fresh and new and just completely clean house.

This is purely speculation on my part but I believe that's due to the ambiguity concerning who has the final say on those matters. When McCloughan came in he was overruled on Licht by Gruden. IMO Hall was kept around because he's tight with the owner, and those are just two examples off the top of my head. That kind of lack of structure and divisiveness is the atmosphere that trickles down throughout the organization. 

[ddub52]

DePodesta said Wentz wouldn't be a top 20 QB in the NFL lol. 

[justice98]

On 1/6/2018 at 1:31 PM, pjfootballer said:

 

I’m not going to get into the legality of pot or how the league disciplines players. I’ll leave that for another conversation in another thread.

 

Yes, our receivers suck and Bruce’s sandwich is rotten (no disagreement with you there), but again, this dolt (no matter how talented) loves pot more than football. That’s a fact. 

 

And I’ll add, although I don’t smoke it, I’m for legalizing pot in all 50 states. 

 

So far, you've called him an asshole and a dolt.  That man has a substance abuse problem. Is every person in rehab a villain?

[skinzplay]

Dorsey is the real deal, and dude is going to build a team in Cleveland. I think those football fans will finally be able to enjoy some success. I still doubt that Hue is the answer at HC, but next season will be telling in that regard. If he stinks it up again, he gets the ax. Can't let bad coaching spoil good talent, and Dorsey is going to infuse that team with some real talent.