Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[NoCalMike]

The other thing to consider is, the front office could have let Cousins walk twice already.  They weren't obligated to franchise Cousins.  Franchising him, meant paying the man a lot of money.  For me, you franchise a player you don't want to lose because you assume no team is going to offer up the bounty required for a trade.

 

If Snyder & Allen were so determined to get rid of Cousins, why not do it two seasons ago and start over with GMSM drafting a QB.  I doubt GMSM said he wouldn't take the job if Cousins wasn't here. 

 

I think for two seasons in a row they saw Cousins play well for the most part, but questionable in some big pivotal games that you expect a franchise QB to step up in. 

 

The front office has 3 methods of keeping Cousins here in 2018.  Two of them could be against his will all together.  So I'd pump the breaks at the moment, thinking he's gone for sure.  Now, beyond 2018? That's a different story.

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

So, rather than look at the entire body of work or note the trend of the arrow pointing up with improvements (resiliency, dealing with adversity, game winning drives, and extending plays) you would rather make your decision based on two games?  As if Kirk would never win a "must-win" game if he was given a running game and better defense?  Your decision making algorithm is too similar to that of Bruce Allen's and that is what is wrong with the Redskins right now.  They are being steered in major matters by an amateur who is so hell bent on being right that he is willing to sacrifice the team's future in order to prove a point. 

 

Of course you look at the entire body of work, and those hugely important games where he flopped are very important parts of that body of work. Not all games are equal in importance. If I were a GM or coach and evaluating a guy I'd give more weight to a QB's performance in big prime time must win games than an early season game or one where the team was already out of playoff contention. You need to know how a guy performs in the highest pressure situations where everything is on the line. So yes I would look at the entire body of work but also weigh different things in different ways. This is a guy you're possibly going to hang a nice chunk of your salary cap on and may make the highest paid player in the league. In that circumstance I think it would be pretty legitimate to at least have some worries about whether or not it's going to be a continuing pattern in the future. 

 

And yes there were some areas in 2016 that were certainly trending up but a couple that were trending down, some massively so...his RZ comp % for example. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@mistertim We're talking about the same guy that won the must-win games down the stretch the season prior in 2015, correct? 

 

I think it's a rather simplistic view to get stuck on what happened at the end of 2016, rather than take into account an entire body of work and more importantly, the context of where the team actually is.

 

I might be able to rationalize a bit more if Cousins actually did choke all the time or flushed a SB ready teams chances down the toilet by stinking to high heavens when it mattered the most. 

 

 

[mistertim]

20 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@mistertim We're talking about the same guy that won the must-win games down the stretch the season prior in 2015, correct? 

 

I think it's a rather simplistic view to get stuck on what happened at the end of 2016, rather than take into account an entire body of work and more importantly, the context of where the team actually is.

 

I might be able to rationalize a bit more if Cousins actually did choke all the time or flushed a SB ready teams chances down the toilet by stinking to high heavens when it mattered the most. 

 

 

 

Yes, same guy...sort of. Kirk was in many ways actually a better and more efficient QB in 2015 than he was in 2016. The only statistical thing he improved on was his yards. But in 2016 his TD to yards ratio went way down, his red zone numbers absolutely tanked, and he started stinking up games at the worst time...down the stretch towards trying to get to the playoffs as opposed to 2015 when he got hot during the latter half of the season and stayed hot in getting us into the playoffs. 

 

Again, I'm not saying that the whole body of work shouldn't be evaluated. I'm just saying that I could understand that those stinkers in must win playoff implication games came right at the end of his "prove it" year and undoubtedly did him no favors. Unfair or not is simply personal opinion. But I have little doubt that it's in the back of some peoples' minds. If they sign this guy to a gargantuan record breaking contract are they going to keep getting the 2016 Kirk who layed eggs down the stretch when we could have gotten into the playoffs or will they somehow get the 2015 Kirk back who was very efficient in the red zone and who got hot down the stretch towards the playoffs?

 

IMO the red zone stuff has a good amount to do with having a healthy Reed. Reed was his go to guy there in 2015 and was borderline uncoverable. He would also demand so much attention that other guys would be able to get open much more easily. Once Reed was a non-factor it seems that's when Kirk's red zone numbers went down the toilet. Maybe it's coincidence but I doubt it. Not like we had a good running game in 2015 either. 

 

[purbeast]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

The other thing to consider is, the front office could have let Cousins walk twice already.  They weren't obligated to franchise Cousins.  Franchising him, meant paying the man a lot of money.  For me, you franchise a player you don't want to lose because you assume no team is going to offer up the bounty required for a trade.

 

If Snyder & Allen were so determined to get rid of Cousins, why not do it two seasons ago and start over with GMSM drafting a QB.  I doubt GMSM said he wouldn't take the job if Cousins wasn't here. 

 

I think for two seasons in a row they saw Cousins play well for the most part, but questionable in some big pivotal games that you expect a franchise QB to step up in. 

 

The front office has 3 methods of keeping Cousins here in 2018.  Two of them could be against his will all together.  So I'd pump the breaks at the moment, thinking he's gone for sure.  Now, beyond 2018? That's a different story.

The simple answer is ... BECAUSE REDSKINS!

 

If they franchise tag him yet again, that only shows even how MORE inept they are.  

 

Instead of giving him a fair deal for like $125 million over 5 years, $70 million guaranteed, they will have instead rented him for 3 years for like $78 million.

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, purbeast said:

The simple answer is ... BECAUSE REDSKINS!

 

If they franchise tag him yet again, that only shows even how MORE inept they are.  

 

Instead of giving him a fair deal for like $125 million over 5 years, $70 million guaranteed, they will have instead rented him for 3 years for like $78 million.

 

I think Kirk wanted to play on the tag again (apparently even God told him so). Remember, it was Kirk's side that didn't even come to the table. The Redskins made an offer. It wasn't as much as Kirk wanted but that's how negotiations work. One side starts low, the other starts high, and then they go back and forth. And please don't give me any nonsense about how Kirk felt "disrespected" by the offer or whatever and that's why he and his agent refused to even counter it. If you let such callow emotions get the better of you in business then you're a complete amateur and shouldn't even be in the NFL (or any other business for that matter). They knew exactly what they were doing. Kirk wanted to play on the tag. 

[purbeast]

20 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think Kirk wanted to play on the tag again (apparently even God told him so). Remember, it was Kirk's side that didn't even come to the table. The Redskins made an offer. It wasn't as much as Kirk wanted but that's how negotiations work. One side starts low, the other starts high, and then they go back and forth. And please don't give me any nonsense about how Kirk felt "disrespected" by the offer or whatever and that's why he and his agent refused to even counter it. If you let such callow emotions get the better of you in business then you're a complete amateur and shouldn't even be in the NFL (or any other business for that matter). They knew exactly what they were doing. Kirk wanted to play on the tag. 

Once the Redskins put the tag on the table, of COURSE he's going to sign it.  It's $24 million GUARANTEED.

 

And all that did was set the bottom AAV for a Redskins LTD, which they didn't even come close to offering him.

 

The Redskins are the only ones to blame for being in this situation.

[Skinsinparadise]

Jay.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/12/27/jay-gruden-on-kirk-cousins-of-course-he-knows-that-we-want-him-back/?utm_term=.7c8ccd55218d

...“I’ve been working with him for a long time now and we’ve put a lot of time and a lot of work together with one another trying to get him better, and he’s made me better. So that’s worked out very well. Of course he knows that we want him back...

 

Kirk’s put so much into making himself a great player that he’s made himself who he is. We just try to give him information to help him succeed along the way and surrounded him with good people. And he’s made people around him better in turn and made me better, made other coaches better, and also made some players around him better. It’s worked hand in hand.”

[purbeast]

Did any of you hear KC's press conference today?  I heard it on the way home from work.  He made it sound like next Friday he's going to be revealing his current situation and what he's hoping for.  I believe he said that he's going to tell "his story" or something along those lines.  The tone I got from him in the presser was that he will not be here next year and doesn't really want to be.

 

Yes it's 100% complete conjecture on my part, but that was just the vibe I got.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, purbeast said:

Once the Redskins put the tag on the table, of COURSE he's going to sign it.  It's $24 million GUARANTEED.

 

And all that did was set the bottom AAV for a Redskins LTD, which they didn't even come close to offering him.

 

The Redskins are the only ones to blame for being in this situation.

 

The only other option the Skins had was to simply let him become a Free Agent as of 4PM on March 1st. If that happened they would have been in no man's land. There was no way they were going to get a deal worked out by March 1st. I know some on here love to say "just give him what he wants!" but that isn't how this works in the real world. Even future HOFers have to haggle over their new contracts. I don't think he ever had any intention of signing a LTD here to be honest. If he did, he and his manager would have at the very least come back with a counter offer. Even if it was crazy high at least they could say they came to the table and that the Skins wouldn't give them what they wanted. They just refused to even participate. 

[purbeast]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

The only other option the Skins had was to simply let him become a Free Agent as of 4PM on March 1st. If that happened they would have been in no man's land. There was no way they were going to get a deal worked out by March 1st. I know some on here love to say "just give him what he wants!" but that isn't how this works in the real world. Even future HOFers have to haggle over their new contracts. I don't think he ever had any intention of signing a LTD here to be honest. If he did, he and his manager would have at the very least come back with a counter offer. Even if it was crazy high at least they could say they came to the table and that the Skins wouldn't give them what they wanted. They just refused to even participate. 

The bolded is flat out false.  They other option was to offer him a fair market deal but they didn't even try that.  Instead they low balled him. 

 

So he scoffed at it (like he should have) because he knew he'd either make $24 million for 1 year from the Redskins, or he'd be a FA and make even more than that guaranteed in a LTD.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

My guess is it will be revealed quite clearly that Kirk doesn't want to be here.  Hell, I don't even want to be here. 

 

[Est.1974]

34 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Did any of you hear KC's press conference today?  I heard it on the way home from work.  He made it sound like next Friday he's going to be revealing his current situation and what he's hoping for.  I believe he said that he's going to tell "his story" or something along those lines.  The tone I got from him in the presser was that he will not be here next year and doesn't really want to be.

 

Yes it's 100% complete conjecture on my part, but that was just the vibe I got.

 

Sure sounds like Jan 5th will shed more light on his position.

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Did any of you hear KC's press conference today?  I heard it on the way home from work.  He made it sound like next Friday he's going to be revealing his current situation and what he's hoping for.  I believe he said that he's going to tell "his story" or something along those lines.  The tone I got from him in the presser was that he will not be here next year and doesn't really want to be.

 

I just watched it. It's here for those interested.  http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Kirk_Cousins_Press_Conference_1227/a52e1595-91d9-4dba-966e-0f08880bc9e4

 

I didn't really take it as being negative.  It felt neutral.  If anything maybe more positive -- doubling down on praising the coaches, scouts, building a winner. 

 

The only big revelation to me is wow is he playing up that January 5th event as this big tell all.  Feels like that event is going to be like his tell all radio interview with Grant-Danny from last summer.  If I lived in the DMV area, I'd go to that event for sure.

 

I was doing something during Chris Russell's segment on 106.7 so I was only half paying attention.  I wanted to re-listen to make sure I got it right but the audio isn't up, yet.  But if I understood him he said his source to Kirk told him that Kirk would like to work out a deal with the Redskins.  However, Bruce can't low ball this.  He has to start with a good offer.  Or something like that.  If so, I take it seriously.  Russell has been right about a lot lately and he if anything has been negative about a deal happening.   

 

Having said that, my feeling for a long time now is a deal doesn't get done because of Bruce/Dan not Kirk.  So I'm not sure it makes me that much more positive.  

[mistertim]

35 minutes ago, purbeast said:

The bolded is flat out false.  They other option was to offer him a fair market deal but they didn't even try that.  Instead they low balled him. 

 

So he scoffed at it (like he should have) because he knew he'd either make $24 million for 1 year from the Redskins, or he'd be a FA and make even more than that guaranteed in a LTD.

 

It is not false. There was no real market set at that point. No other QBs had gotten contracts either. You're basically just repeating the "give him whatever he wants" line in a different way. Contracts don't work like that. The "fair market deal" talking point is so ridiculously simplistic when you're talking about the very complicated and usually relatively lengthy process that is NFL contracts and their negotiations. Even guys like Carr and Luck who we know wanted to be back with their teams didn't finish up their contract negotiations until nearly July. 

 

And then you went ahead and repeated the other nonsense where Kirk was just so upset at the offer that he didn't even come back saying what he wanted. That is absolutely idiotic. If that were true, it would mean Kirk must be the most emotionally fragile player in the NFL and also a terrible businessman. They go low, fine, you come back with what you want and see what they say. If they refuse then you can at least say you came back to the table and then turn it back around on them. They never wanted a LTD. Kirk wanted to play on the franchise tag and then get out of dodge. 

[purbeast]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just watched it. It's here for those interested.  http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Kirk_Cousins_Press_Conference_1227/a52e1595-91d9-4dba-966e-0f08880bc9e4

 

I didn't really take it as being negative.  It felt neutral.  If anything maybe more positive -- doubling down on praising the coaches, scouts, building a winner. 

 

The only big revelation to me is wow is he playing up that January 5th event as this big tell all.  Feels like that event is going to be like his tell all radio interview with Grant-Danny from last summer.  If I lived in the DMV area, I'd go to that event for sure.

 

I was doing something during Chris Russell's segment on 106.7 so I was only half paying attention.  I wanted to re-listen to make sure I got it right but the audio isn't up, yet.  But if I understood him he said his source to Kirk told him that Kirk would like to work out a deal with the Redskins.  However, Bruce can't low ball this.  He has to start with a good offer.  Or something like that.  If so, I take it seriously.  Russell has been right about a lot lately and he if anything has been negative about a deal happening.   

 

Having said that, my feeling for a long time now is a deal doesn't get done because of Bruce/Dan not Kirk.  So I'm not sure it makes me that much more positive.  

To be fair I didn't watch it only heard it, so I didn't get any of the body language.  I'll check it out later though thanks for the video.

[Burgold]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The only big revelation to me is wow is he playing up that January 5th event as this big tell all. 

This is his one chance to be Lebron James. He gets to do his version of THE CHOICE!

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, purbeast said:

To be fair I didn't watch it only heard it, so I didn't get any of the body language.  I'll check it out later though thanks for the video.

 

I am not saying you are off.  I'm saying its hard to tell.  He was smiling through most of the interview -- it was a tight smile though.  I am predisposed to think he wants to be here if Bruce gives him a market deal.  i didn't see anything in that interview that changes my thoughts on it one way or another.  I like the idea that he continues to praise coaches-scouts considering one of his hang ups is supposedly trusting this operation.

 

My gut is he doesn't fully trust the operation but feels its passable enough for them to win considering their current roster and Jay.  I admit though some of my own biases about the team reflect that position.   It's sort of what I think.

 

But I've heard enough from people I trust who are typically right that its on Bruce-Dan whether Kirk is back and if they offer him a market deal -- Kirk will take it.

 

7 minutes ago, Burgold said:

This is his one chance to be Lebron James. He gets to do his version of THE CHOICE!

 

Yeah he played that event up so big that the media will be flocking to it.  Seems like a cool event -- photos, autographs, the whole nine yards.  To his credit, its going to charity.

[NoCalMike]

Just got done listening to it.  Sounded neutral, but leaning towards him staying if he is offered a LTD that is competitive.  The whole "tell my story" part was really just in response to a question about whether there was a point he thought he'd never start here, so he said yeah after 2012 he assumed his best bet was to play well in the preseason and get traded eventually, but in the NFL things change quick...that is what led into him saying after the season he will have more time to answer those kinds of questions.

 

He tried his hardest to steer the conversation back towards the final game and why he feels it is important to end the season with a win, but the media wasn't having it. LOL.

 

 

[The Rook]

No matter how this ends up, you have to admit, Kirk bet on himself and has done quite well.  AND will do quite well on his next contract.  Generational wealth - well done Kirk.

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Tsailand]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To his credit, its going to charity.

 

The man makes 1.5 milion dollars per game.  Total ticket sales to this event about ten grand.  So yes, it's about him getting a chance to tell his side of the story.

 

I assume he's following his agent's instructions in all this.  Same reason his weekly radio show is on 106.7 instead of the team owned station.  I don't blame him.  The agent is the expert, so you do what he tells you.

 

When the 30 for 30 on Kirk comes out, I want to know whose idea it was to offer the Redskins that three-year contract in early 2016, the one that Bruce rejected without even counter-offering.  I will bet that his agent advised against it, but Kirk felt he should give the team a chance.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

So yes, it's about him getting a chance to tell his side of the story.

 

Sure, I didn't say otherwise.  That's what he said himself in his press conference.

 

8 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

I assume he's following his agent's instructions in all this.  Same reason his weekly radio show is on 106.7 instead of the team owned station.  

 

I don't think so on this front but no way to know for sure.  Grant-Danny talked about this on air.  They said they asked him to do it first before he was a starter and Kirk feels some loyalty based on that and 980 offered him more money to appear there but he stuck with staying loyal.

 

8 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

I want to know whose idea it was to offer the Redskins that three-year contract in early 2016, the one that Bruce rejected without even counter-offering.  I will bet that his agent advised against it, but Kirk felt he should give the team a chance.

 

Maybe.  But the offer was consistent with his agent's rhetoric which is the tag drives the price.    

 

My take on Kirk on the money side of things is he wants a market deal.  He's not taking a discount. But he's not necessarily going to the highest bidder either.  It's a Jim Zorn stay medium approach.   If the Redskins go with the Zillow price, Kirk stays.  Otherwise, adios.

[Skinsinparadise]

Steinberg now having a go

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/12/27/the-redskins-season-is-ending-kirk-cousins-season-is-only-starting/?utm_term=.cfff8dab3410

 

...Moments before Cousins approached the microphone, wearing slippers and a Redskins winter hat, the team’s media corps engaged in a spirited debate about his future: the transition tag vs. the franchise tag, the Jets vs. the Browns, the possibility of a real contender acquiring Cousins, the reasons he might or might not want to leave. It’s the rare sports topic that endures for three years without losing its potency. The topic is completely exhausting, and also completely compelling. We’re all sick of it, yet we can’t stop debating each other.

 

...His public statements have become increasingly vague in recent years — “I’ve grown tired of a three-second quote being taken out of context and being made [into] an entire headline, so I’ve tried to tread very lightly with what I say,” he told MMQB’s Peter King last spring. Still, we’ll all be listening next week, when Cousins has promised “honesty and some transparency ” during a two-hour fan forum to raise money for charity.

 

Some fans describe Cousins — who said last week that he wants to help ensure the Redskins are seen as a winning brand — as a politician, thinking every statement is calculated not to offend. I mentioned this description to the quarterback Wednesday.

 

“I think everybody has to be a bit of one, in all their jobs,” he said. “But no, I think everything I say I stand behind and I mean it. And why would you not want to be a part of a winning brand? Why would you not build for the future?

 

...Cousins said his event next week will allow him “to answer these kinds of questions, talk through it, give it its due diligence.” He said the event will “be more helpful for all of you to hear insight [into] what I’m thinking and where my mind’s at.” But it won’t settle his future, because no sound bite can. 

 

[Spearfeather]

1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

 

 

When the 30 for 30 on Kirk comes out, I want to know whose idea it was to offer the Redskins that three-year contract in early 2016, the one that Bruce rejected without even counter-offering.  I will bet that his agent advised against it, but Kirk felt he should give the team a chance.

 

Washington Post

Quote

In 2016, Cousins received $19.95 million on the franchise tag after his agent, Mike McCartney, and the Redskins couldn’t agree on a satisfactory salary. The team’s offer was around $16-17 million per year.

 

[JSSkinz]

So Kirks having a town hall?  Will Anderson Cooper be there?