The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Stefanskins]

13 hours ago, Alexa said:

IDK about you but I'm ready for Gibbs 3 right about now....  

oh i'd love it

[NewCliche21]

I still think Dan is just bad at picking people.  I think he'll give leeway or even yield to who he picks, he just picks terrible people to run the show.

 

If we take Mayfield, though, or if Kirk just walks and has ANYTHING negative to say (which would be like hearing Gibbs drop the F bomb), then I'm more than done with Bruce and the rest of the FO that he put in place.  I'll order them all Ubers to get them to Guam.

[Alexa]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 4:30 PM, Tsailand said:

OK, pretend I didn't mention RG3.  Fact is this organization tries to save relatively small amounts of money by making stupid actions that will cost far more in the long run.  Those were just two easy examples. I know you could come up with many more.

 

The damage to the Redskins brand caused by Scott airing our dirty laundry is going to be a lot more than 2-3 million.  Could easily make the difference in high value free agents and coaches and GMs coming here or not in the future.

 

Even if I thought Dan+Bruce were 100% in the right to fire Scott, I would want the team to pay him off and shut him up..

 

 

Could not agree more. Just give the guy his money and be done with it. It already did not look good when he left. Is Dan so dumb that he can't see this is a no win situation? 

[onedrop]

42 minutes ago, Alexa said:

Could not agree more. Just give the guy his money and be done with it. It already did not look good when he left. Is Dan so dumb that he can't see this is a no win situation? 

what about anything in dan snyder's history makes you think he can recognize a no win situation?

[Thinking Skins]

I'm thinking about this coming offseason and I'm looking at last offseason as a point of reference. (Pardon me on this thought process because it will need people to think for at least a second that Bruce is not the epitome of evil) I partially wonder if the Gruden extension was partly based on trying to get the roster younger (something Bruce has always been doing) and getting rid of aging players like Jackson, Garcon, and Baker and trying to replace them with younger guys like Grant, Doctson and Ioannidis (possibly the Mcs as well). I wonder if Gruden could see some of what took place this year (not really the injuries, but the time needed for player development) and wanted some security so that he could play a young roster and still feel confident in his job. 

 

I've said this in other threads but I've been really impressed with Gruden (Dallas and SD aside), he's had a number of starters go down, been replacing them with practice squad guys who are basically UDFAs, been teaching them enough to get going (basically training camp) in a week, and we've still been one of the least penalized teams - and many of the penalties we've been getting have been from vets, not the young guys. 

 

I know his first job is to win, but I've always liked his teaching ability and I wonder if this year was sold as a rebuild type year to try to get us past the competing for a wild card spot, and into the "we know we've got 10 wins, but we're looking for 13" area. 

[Wildbunny]

Jay was extended prior to the SM debacle so I would believe he had something totally different in mind than what he got.

 

Right now I believe we're seeing the results of the great "talent evaluator" skills that both Doug and Bruce have. And they aren't really great at it. To replace the injured ones, they went with the easy way of the guys that were here during TC. That helps your coaching staff as those guys are familiar with the system, but it's often not the best choice. Coaches can adapt if need be to newcomers. But vets are also generally quicker to digest a playbook, and are also accustomed to NFL speed.

 

It's ok going with youngsters when your season is already over. But when you're in the thick of things and trying to get a playoff berth, a few good vets here and there would have been wiser. Tomorrow, against the Cardinals, we're starting Vigil and Spaight at ILB. I'm pretty sure there's guys that are actually without a team and that could have been used here... Like.. Perry Riley? He's no world beater, but it's still better than Vigil and Spaight I believe.

 

But our FO doesn't even have a clue regarding the actual FA pool. So, no, I'm not envisionning next offseason quietly. I'm a bit scared about it in fact. With guys like Breeland, Murphy, Long, being let go...

[Thinking Skins]

Shot at Bruce aside, i disagree with the notion on young players. I think it depends on what you're working toward. Its actually right in line with letting Baker, Garcon, and Jackson go. We probably want a younger team. Scot was doing this with bringing in guys like Foster. We did sign some vets (Jones, the tackle who i think played c), but i think there is a lot of value in bringing in young guys to help us not just this year, but possibly next year and going forward as well. 

 

Vigil as an example could be our best backup at ilb, better than Compton for sure. I still want more speed (all over defense really) but he's played better than i expected. 

[Wildbunny]

We are 15th in terms of average age throughout the NFL. We've been cutting this number every year since 2013 (we were 31st then) but 2016. So we had to do it, but you still don't need to do it all the time. Getting young guys during the offseason, ok good. But when you're in the playoff hunt, there's no reason to look at any possible vet signing that could help in that regard.

 

When DHall was a rookie, he went to the NFCCG and lost and was like "OK, no problem, I'll be there next year".

How many times have he been to the NFCCG since his rookie year? 0

He had to wait another 8 years to reach the playoffs again... That was with RG3.

[Dissident2]

I was sorta joking the other day about how the only chance we have to get rid of Snyder would be for him to get accused of some sort of sexual misconduct. Now that actually hits an NFL franchise, with the Panthers owner ANNOUNCING HE'LL SELL THE TEAM because of just such an allegation against him. 

 

I know this is a thread about Bruce, but lets' face it, if Sauron falls, so does his mouth. If Snyder or Allen have ever engaged in this kind of misconduct on their own (I would stake money on the fact that one or both have just based on the kind of people I think they are), I hope someone steps forward. 

[SkinsFTW]

Yeah I was just thinking about that. Somehow all of our wishes went a couple hours south instead.

 

Typical Redskins.

[Dissident2]

13 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Yeah I was just thinking about that. Somehow all of our wishes went a couple hours south instead.

 

Typical Redskins.

 

I know. Can you imagine if this had happened here? What a Christmas miracle it would be. It would actually become my new Christmas. We could call it "Second Waterloo Day", as it would celebrate the fall of Lil' Napoleon. I'll even write the first "Second Waterloo Day" carol if this ever occurs.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

On 12/15/2017 at 1:00 PM, onedrop said:

what about anything in dan snyder's history makes you think he can recognize a no win situation?

 

Volume alone, maybe? He seems to have been in several as the owner of the team and many other business ventures. At least at some point, you'd think he'd drop some bread crumbs or the forest would look familiar, right? 

[CTskin]

Here are the sad truths:

-Snyder is a top 3 worst owner in the league. His little man syndrome combined with his diehard fandom makes him toxic. 

-He will never sell the team.

-Bruce Allen is Cerrato 2.0... Bigger and badder with his abysmal track record and bull**** personality.

-Snyder is more focused on building the next stadium than winning and he'll be this way for the foreseeable future. He views Allen as the guy who will broker the best deal. Therefor, Allen isn't going anywhere.

-We're stuck with this FO for a long time. Stop expecting change, stop saying "Dan should sell the team" or "Bruce should be fired;" nagahappen, stop hoping that they will all the sudden make sound, intelligent personnel moves, stop putting the blame elsewhere.

 

I wish that I could root for another team, I kind of tried, but it's just not possible. I realize what I'm in for here, I bleed B&G, it is what it is.

[NoCalMike]

The issue is that building a championship team is like putting together a 1,000 piece puzzle.  The way this franchise has been run under Snyder is that he always seems to feel 990 pieces are already in place and he'll just sign a "golden ticket" to come put the final touches on everything.

 

Currently the roster has a ton of young talent that isn't being paid a ton yet. It is as best time as ever to bring in a GM, give him full control directly under Snyder the day after the season ends. Give him everything he needs to evaluate the youth on the current roster, take a scalpel to anyone who doesn't fit into the "build a contender in the next 2-3 season" plan, and then go to work on the building.

 

 

[Wildbunny]

46 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The issue is that building a championship team is like putting together a 1,000 piece puzzle. 

1K pieces puzzles?

I can do that easily!

[crabbypatty]

15 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

I was sorta joking the other day about how the only chance we have to get rid of Snyder would be for him to get accused of some sort of sexual misconduct. Now that actually hits an NFL franchise, with the Panthers owner ANNOUNCING HE'LL SELL THE TEAM because of just such an allegation against him. 

 

I know this is a thread about Bruce, but lets' face it, if Sauron falls, so does his mouth. If Snyder or Allen have ever engaged in this kind of misconduct on their own (I would stake money on the fact that one or both have just based on the kind of people I think they are), I hope someone steps forward. 

 

With our luck Snyder would get ****canned, only to be replaced with Jimmy Haslam and Sashi Brown.

Face it, we're cursed.

[Warhead36]

Allen's main purpose is to help Snyder secure a new stadium with his political connections and ability to backchannel and schmooze. Until that happens, he's got infinite job security.

[Wildbunny]

49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Allen's main purpose is to help Snyder secure a new stadium with his political connections and ability to backchannel and schmooze. Until that happens, he's got infinite job security.

I'm pretty sure that's Bruce Point of View. I'm not so sure Dan sees it that way.

 

Bruce got rid of Scott and was entitled to do so. But if results starts going south, Bruce won't have anybody but him to blame. In fact naming Doug Williams was not that smart for him. As much as the name "Allen" means to this franchise, it means less than Doug Williams himself. So I hardly envision Dan allowing Bruce to fire Doug Williams.And I hardly thinks Dan would believe that it's Doug's fault if Kirk leaves, or that Kirk got too greedy. So Bruce has put himself on the line.

 

When they'll have their annual evaluation of last season, I'm almost pretty sure it'll be nice and friendly with knives and guns behind the back of each one (Bruce, Doug and Jay) firing bullets at each others.

 

No I don't have the feeling that everything's fine at Redskins Park and that everyone's working over the same goal.

[88Comrade2000]

This team will never win more than 10 games in season under Gruden.  Hell, in 18 years of ownership; Snyder has never had a team finish above 10 wins in the regular season.  Only times we got 11 overall wins was in 1999 and 2005; where we made it to the divisional round each year. Only other time we got 10 wins was 2012 and we didn't win in the playoffs that year.

 

Honestly, I seriously doubt Snyder will have a team that wins 11 or more games in the regular season. 

 

I have no enthusiasm for the immediate future.  Assuming Kirk comes back for one more year; at best we maybe contend for a wild card birth at best. I'd expect him to be gone in 2019 and for us to crash; leading to Jay's firing after the 2019 season.

 

If we don't sign Kirk, then I expect a rocky 2018 and Jay to be fired after the 2018 season.  Jay's destiny is to be fired eventually. Whether that happens this year, next year or in 2019; Jay will eventually be fired.

 

I expect Snyder to go back to his old ways regarding players.

[Wildbunny]

Snyder bought the team in 1999. 

In 1999 and 2005 we both went 11-5.

Still he never had a team finish with more than 10 wins?

 

Ok....

[Thinking Skins]

Dallas had Jason Garrett who (along with Wade Phillips) went 6-10 his first year. Then he proceeded to go 8-8 three times. Then all of a sudden they were able to get 12 wins 2 out of the last 3 seasons. That's with Jerry Jones running things (and his son Stephen running things in the background, kinda playing the Bruce Allen role). We all know that Jones is who Snyder patterned himself after. Look at Al Davis and the Raiders. They had no better than a 10 win team from 1991-1999, then they got Bruce and the other Gruden and were able to go to a SB. Then Bruce left and they were stuck in 4 wins (+/- 1) every year until recently with Del Rio / Carr. 

 

I'm not saying its an easy road, but everybody acting like we have this impossible hill to climb are looking at this through 25+ years of mysery. There's a saying that says "I'm more than what I come from" and I think its important to remember that because what Snyder did with the team in 2000 has little bearing on today. These past 4 years we've been making very smart decisions with our resources (minus Kirk Cousins, which even this board was pretty split on before earlier this year). We see teams turn things around all the time, whether it be STL going from perennial 8-8 to now being a powerhouse; Buffalo hadn't had a winning season since 2000 and Doug Floutie, Detroit went from 1992 - 2013 without putting together more than 10 wins in a season. Now they're a regular 10 win team. 

 

This is not impossible. And I know I'm a Bruce homer, but one of the most important things in this league is consistency and building a foundation. Gruden & Allen may not be the guys to take us to the promise land, but they are getting some talented guys in here and developing that talent. I've spoken before about the age of the team, but I'll also comment on the fact that for the first time under Snyder we're re-signing our guys. Carlos Rogers famously criticized Snyder for not doing that earlier. But we signed Thompson, Reed, Moses, Williams, Paul. Its a part of growth. Now we have a team that knows each other and knows how they run certain routes, knows where they're going to have trouble and how they can help each other. These are important parts of building a team. 

 

The knock on Bruce has been that he's not a "football guy" I never knew what that meant because he spent his whole life in football, but I'll give you that he's not a scout. But he did implement a strategy in the front office which I love him for, which I call the anti-Vinny method. Few big contracts (unlike Vinny), sign our own (unlike Vinny), lots of picks (unlike Vinny). I don't know much about Kyle Smith but I am curious to read more about him in the coming years. I have always respected AJ Smith (Kyle's father) and I enjoy the fact that he's one of Bruce's best friends, and somebody who's openly critical of Snyder. And if Bruce was smart enough to hire Scot in 2014 as a consultant, and in 2015 as the GM, then why would he abort that formula in 2018 and suddenly try to appoint himself as the head scout? It doesn't add up. Maybe it'll come in relying on somebody with a business similar to Scot's; maybe it'll come in relying more on BLESTO's scouting service; maybe it'll rely on AJ recommending some other quality scout. But i find it hard to believe that he will ignore the past 4 drafts and say that he'd rather just spin a wheel and pick players. 

[Thinking Skins]

http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/meet-kyle-smith-who-was-promoted-redskins-director-college-scouting

 

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Kyle Smith is the son of former NFL executive A.J. Smith. I love this quote on his childhood #Redskins https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/06/22/meet-kyle-smith-the-new-and-boring-redskins-director-of-college-scouting/ …

9:36 AM - 22 Jun 2017

 

[Capt'n Obvious]

3 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Snyder bought the team in 1999. 

In 1999 and 2005 we both went 11-5.

Still he never had a team finish with more than 10 wins?

 

Ok....

 

Redskins were 10-6 in both 1999 and 2005 regular seasons.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't know much about Kyle Smith but from what I'd heard (especially from Cooley), he's the one guy potentially I have faith in that front office along with Schaffer.  But heck according to an article, Dan's personnel people told him they like Jordy Nelson.  Dan disagreed, he liked M. Kelly.  We've heard other stories like that.  So the idea of one youngish guy in the mix being competent doesn't per se translate to bottom line decisions being smart -- since they aren't the bottom line decision makers. 

 

A key difference between Jerry's Cowboys and Dan's Redskins is the Cowboys front office is mentioned time and time again for having talented personnel guys who are coveted around the league.  And from what I've read Jerry's son has successfully convinced his dad to back off and let the personnel guys do their thing.

 

Will McClay (the Cowboys version of Scott Campbell's job) is a coveted commodity with a big rep.  The Giants right now are pursuing GM prospects have him on their radar according to an article I read among others.  No shocker that zero of the people that are on the Giants radar are from this organization.  Aside from M. Brown years back when do we ever hear of teams clamoring for anybody from this FO?

 

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2017/01/03/cowboys-personnel-man-among-nfl-insiders-top-candidates-future-gm-openings

 

...ESPN's Adam Caplan provided an inside look at some personnel executives who should receive interest for general manager openings in the coming weeks, with the Cowboys' Will McClay breaking into his category of top candidates.

 

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2016/11/04/difference-6-1-cowboys-0-8-browns-starts-johnny-manziel

...The Cowboys pride themselves on having that cohesiveness. Ask anyone close to the team why the front office, coaches and scouts seem to be on the same page and you will hear the name Will McClay.

McClay, the team's senior director of college and pro personnel, has been in the personnel department for 14 years and has overseen the team's drafts for the last three. He's also involved with free agency and trades.

"In terms of who deserves the most credit I think it's a group effort," Stephen Jones said. "It's an organizational effort. But you've got to start with the guy who does the most work on it and organizes it. That's Will McClay."

[Taylor 36]

3 hours ago, Capt'n Obvious said:

 

Redskins were 10-6 in both 1999 and 2005 regular seasons.

 

 

 

 

Beat me to it.  I'm not sure where he got his numbers from, unless he was thinking we went 11-7 including playoffs those years???