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The Politics Sexual Assault Thread

No Excuses

By No Excuses
in The Tailgate

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Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted

There's a lot of buzz about him resigning today and I don't know if it makes me a hypocrite, but I don't think Franken should. He's been a force for good in Congress. More importantly, his victim has publicly and repeatedly forgiven him. Equally importantly, there have been so many women from SNL and Washington who have stood up and said, "This is not my experience with Al."

 

I think for me it also goes back to the rationalization I worked around President Bill Clinton. "Good President. Terrible Person." And therein lies the rub. What happens if you throw out the baby with the bathwater. With guys like Moore and Trump it's easy. Their policies and philosophies are horrific, xenophobic, sexist, racist, etc. When you have someone like Franken who has been a champion and one of the Dems most able fighters... what do you lose by having a zero tolerance policy.--- Again, the accepted apology carries a lot of weight with me as does the repeated efforts to apologize.--- I can, however, respect other points of view on this as I have not walked in the shoes of those who have been sexually harassed or abused. I even admit that you hold the purer and better moral ground. I just am wary of putting every wrong in the same basket especially when only one side of the aisle faces any penalty.

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Zguy28

Zguy28

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Popeman38 said:

I really don't like the current environment of "guilty upon accusation" that seems to be taking hold in this country.

It does make the environment ripe for abuse by opportunists.

 

20 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

At some point, we are going to need to calibrate this and figure out what is and is not a hanging offense.

Or building on Popeman38's comment, how many accusations constitute what punishment? 1...3...8? Waiting also for wrongful termination and defamation suits.

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LadySkinsFan

LadySkinsFan

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.

 

This constitutes "groping"? Putting your arm around someone's waist for a photo?

 

No, that's not groping.  

 

We all know what groping is. 

 

Unfortunately for Franken, he's paying a price that Republicans just ignore for power.

 

I'd like for him to run again, let the voters of Minnesota decide now that everything is out. What Franken did is nothing compared with Moore preying on children.

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Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

No, that's not groping.  

 

We all know what groping is. 

 

Unfortunately for Franken, he's paying a price that Republicans just ignore for power.

 

I'd like for him to run again, let the voters of Minnesota decide now that everything is out. What Franken did is nothing compared with Moore preying on children.

I've been having conversations with friends about whether we have knowingly or unknowingly been guilty of crossing the line. I had believed myself innocent. However, if putting your hand around a waist during a picture is groping than not only do I need to make ammends, but I have been violated countless times!

 

I feel so dirty!

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pjfootballer

pjfootballer

Posted
Posted (edited)

For quite some time now, any photos at work, I do not touch anyone.  I fold my arms, put them behind me or to my side.  I don't put my hands on shoulders, legs or anything, even when casually talking. I know some people are "hands-y" because they will touch the person they are talking with, without it being sexual, but I do not ever do that.  And I'm not offended if someone does.  I had my boss (female) kind of put her hand on my shoulder briefly when she was making a point, but I knew that was just what she does and it didn't mean anything.

Edited by pjfootballer
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twa

twa

Posted
Posted

I was wondering how long till the opinions started to shift.

 

8 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I've been having conversations with friends about whether we have knowingly or unknowingly been guilty of crossing the line. I had believed myself innocent. However, if putting your hand around a waist during a picture is groping than not only do I need to make ammends, but I have been violated countless times!

 

I feel so dirty!

 

She said it was more than a arm around the waist though.

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Hersh

Hersh

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.

 

This constitutes "groping"? Putting your arm around someone's waist for a photo?

 

I don’t even know how to react to that story. I mean, she doesn’t even let her husband put his arm around her waist with her like that in public. I find that odd and I don’t think this really helps the cause of cleaning things up. 

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I dunno man. The waist thing seems a little ridiculous to me. Soon we are going to have people saying he looked at them with a ravenous hunger that made them feel tingly inside. That tingle could be assault. 

 

 

 

How many of you grab a handful and squeeze repeatedly though?

How many squeezes are ok? 

 

I've given some looks that were with a ravenous hunger, in my defense they looked good enough to eat and gnaw on the bones.

 

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DogofWar1

DogofWar1

Posted
Posted (edited)

The problem Franken has is that he's seemingly got a lot of little things.  I'll admit, when I read the first chunk of the Atlantic article, I was perplexed.  It frankly seemed like a reaction that Republicans make fun of "snowflake" liberals for.

 

However, the problem is that even if we dismiss this as an overreaction and we find the Tweeden matter sufficiently suspicious to put it to the side, there are enough other allegations to make things very uncomfortable.  The lady does a good job in the second half of the article going over the various allegations.  Individually, they aren't thaaaat bad.  The butt grabbing is bad but that could potentially have been an accident, but once we get out past 2-3 incidents (aside from the Tweeden and Atlantic ones) it paints a bad media picture of a guy who consistently walks up to the molestation line and stops juuuuuust short.

 

I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that, assuming the Tweeden stuff doesn't pan out, that Franken doesn't cross the "needs to resign" line.  But I'm not sure we're gonna be able to set that line right now.

 

44 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I've been having conversations with friends about whether we have knowingly or unknowingly been guilty of crossing the line. I had believed myself innocent. However, if putting your hand around a waist during a picture is groping than not only do I need to make ammends, but I have been violated countless times!

 

I feel so dirty!

I think it was the squeezing the constituted the problem.  I still think that there's a good argument that it doesn't rise to the level of "groping" in the sexual misconduct sense, but I understand the concern it dances near the line.  I will say, people have squeezed my arm or shoulder in a way I likely wouldn't, but that may just be my view of awkward conduct rubbing up against their view, and I certainly never thought it as misconduct.  Of course, that is all above the waist too, not at or below.

Edited by DogofWar1
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Riggo-toni

Riggo-toni

Posted
Posted
Just now, Llevron said:

Can I not find the issue to be very serious and some of these allegations to bull****? 

Absolutely.

Insisting the Duke lacrosse team was innocent for example, or that Tawana Brawley was a liar doesn't mean you don't believe that rape is an unquestionably horrific crime.

 

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Who is shifting positions? 

 

The medias for one, the senate D women for another.

 

but you can see some here vacillating between we should believe it is sexual assault if the woman says it is..... to slow down there,we are taking damage.

 

humans are fickle

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Hersh

Hersh

Posted
Posted
Just now, twa said:

 

The medias for one, the senate D women for another.

 

but you can see some here vacillating between we should believe it is sexual assault if the woman says it is..... to slow down there,we are taking damage.

 

humans are fickle

 

I see people wondering about one specific claim regarding putting an arm around a waist and allegedly squeezing. Having a nuanced conversation about it doesn't equate to shifting positions. Of course if you want to lump everything together, that's your right, but most won't do that. Not sure how the media is shifting positions but I imagine on places like Breibart that Franken is the devil and Moore should run for POTUS. 

 

Senate D women getting tougher on the issue is a positive. I wouldn't classify that as shifting their positions. 

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redskinss

redskinss

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://www.liberalmountain.com/us-politics/republican-lawmaker-cries-sexual-assault-democrat-touches-arm-details

 

Wow. 

Just wow. 

 

The first comment was the best. 

 

You know Metcalfe more than likely goes home and has his wife peg him while he looks at the Sears catalogs boys underwear section. With that much baggage in the closet - holy ****, dude. . . how huge is your insecurity?

Edited by redskinss
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Llevron

Llevron

Posted
Posted

Being honest - I'm just imagining myself in the same place as Franken and wondering if it would be fair. You can call it flipping positions if you want. At least im willing to be honest about the **** though. 

 

I guarantee you can go through Facebook photos from my 20's and say I had my hand on at least 1 ass. And that's just the photos. I remember some of the wild ass nights I had. All it takes if for one of the women I used to be "friends" with to come out and say I harassed her and now the burden of proof is on me to say I didn't?? I guarantee most of you have stories that, take one or two details out, can be misconstrued into something entirely different. 

 

Easy example. 4 years ago at my current job, there was a new girl working in marketing. There are literally 5 black people in this 300+ company so we know each other and immediately are comfortable with each other. Her and I were no different. We were cool! She was also bad. as. ****. One Friday, she invited me to lunch and it was cool. I told her we should hang out outside of work and see if we have just as much fun. Invited her to a party and went back to my cold sad desk. Two weeks later shes telling me I make her uncomfortable cause I invited her to hang out. Uncomfortable to the point where she wouldn't even get on the elevator if I was on it.....as if I was harassing her. Cause I asked you to hang out?? I didn't even say the word date or say one on one or anything. 

 

Few years later I find out shawty was molested (she says) by her friend in the last city she was in and moved here to get away from everyone who knew about it. She told me herself she was freaked out cause I looked like ol' boi (and I do, she showed me the picture) but this wasn't until after she moved away and worked for a different company. What if she would have told someone that I made her uncomfortable? How would I have defended myself if she said she was so uncomfortable around me she wouldn't even get on the same elevator? 

 

So now im in congress and I have the chick from past work saying I harassed her, the chick from FB saying I groped her while taking a photo. I dont remember details of either. And now im a social pariah and losing my job. Seems fair, right? And all I want was some ass. Is that a crime?  

 

And im not at all saying the allegations shouldn't be taken seriously. But the flow chart should be more thought out than Get accused --> Get publicly shammed --> Get fired. 

 

2 minutes ago, twa said:

 

 

My post was directed at tipping points in general and tolerance.

 

 

Common sense will tell you the more you are exposed to something the higher your tolerance to it. Not sure it means anything in this case. 

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Being honest - I'm just imagining myself in the same place as Franken and wondering if it would be fair. You can call it flipping positions if you want. At least im willing to be honest about the **** though. 

 

 

I think all of us can.....especially males in these times.

 

How many times did your tongue escape into another's mouth on accident though?

 

 

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