Putting this all on the receiver play doesn't work for me

[Bang]

Several of the plays in which Wentz distanced himself from Cousins this year are on broken plays that should have been sacks.

In the first game he broke FOUR tackles if i remember right, and threw a 58 yard TD. 
that is partly lucky, and partly his being HUGE.

He's like Roethlisbeerger big, and Roethlisberger often reminds me of those nature videos where there's that one water buffalo who just doesn't give a flying **** that there's lions hanging all over it,, it just keeps going.

Last night,  he's DOWN, dead to rights, but he escapes because physically he is HUGE, and his blockers didn't stop in that pileup and didn't let Brown and the DT get a hold of him.

He did that twice last night,, broke through sacks and tackles and made a play..   he's been killing us with it this year. Do they keep a QB stat for plays made after contact? I bet he's on or near the top.

 

Kirk's not going to be that big no matter how many glasses of milk he drinks. If he gets in those situations he can't break those tackles. And make no mistake, they are not escapes, they are BROKEN tackles, with broken tacklers left behind.

 

Wentz's  deep shots last night were on a mismatch TD in which he got Swearinger single up on a speedy rookie who dusted him, and Wentz knew it from the get go. if anyone beloieves Cousins can't or won't make a similar read in a similar situation, i'm all ears. He did it with DJax on the regular. right now he hasn't got those matchups presenting themselves. Last night he got one open look at a WR and hit Doctson up the sideline in a BIG fat hole in the Eagles zone. 

Someone said earlier that the throw Wentz made to Agholor on the sideline in the second half, with the nice over the shoulder catch.. "that's not a throw Cousins makes. he's too scared".. Yeah? we've seen that play too.. in fact last year against the Giants he threw the death pick because he thought he had it up the left sideline. .. and didn't.. but he threw a nice TD to Doctson on a similar play vs the Raiders,, single coverage and up he went for the score.

 

People think they can just look at QBs as apples to apples and make comparisons and they mean something. They don't. The Redskins secondary is beat up heading into the game. Wentz already has that in his favor, and facing youth in the secondary leads him to get mismatches, or flat out blown assignments as we saw on their final TD.

Ertz is a mismatch problem for everyone this year, and apparently especially for Swearinger who had his worst game as a Redskin last night. But we know Ertz is a problem. It's no surprise he got his last night, is it?

 

Cousins has receivers he can't count on, and i don't care who wants to compare them to the Eagles receivers, The fact is Torrey Smith by himself is a better player at the position than both our WR1 and WR2, and he isn't even a factor. Agholor was a 1st round draft pick and he's seeing the lights come on pretty much right on schedule. Last year they had him in the slot something like 15% of the time.. this year it's over 80% and he's showing up. Gee.. i wonder if that is the REDSKINS or maybe they found the position he could excel in?

 

Give Wentz a receiver that drops 3 out of four passes that hit him square in BOTH hands, and lets see how he reacts? I don't know what else Cousins can do, other than maybe put the ball on a silver ****ing platter and walk out there with white gloves on and hand it to Pryor. This is supposed to be his big weapon.

 

Reed had a solid game catching the ball. (Other than the 3rd and 2 he ****ed up) Davis had a solid game receiving. Crodwer has pulled the ol' "I'm goin out fr a pack of smokes" and disappear trick. Who knows where he is.. If he's open and Cousins has somehow decided to ignore one of his most productive players.. i'd need to be explained.

 

I know Gruden said that he wants to see Kirk throw into some tight windows.. ok,   like he did to Pryor? Be nice if Mr Workout Video could catch one. Also, if the OL is giving up pressure, those tight windows are harder to find and hit. .. so while i trust what the coach says, i don't know how much of it is on the QB. More than any other sport, football players are reliant on one another, and the QB is no different.

 

But Wentz had plenty of passes knocked down last night. Breeland had a great game swatting passes..  and one bad holding on the other side of the field. (Hochuli's mental clock went off and told him he needed camera time, i guess. ticky tack call 30 yards away.)
Dunbar knocked a few passes down. 

Wentz had a nice night statistically.  about 65% completion rate.. . helped out considerably by some really EASY scrambles that made him their top rusher, gave them first downs and extended the defense's time on thje field. ..  and of course, the water buffalo play in which he should have been down and gets a ridiculous first down on 3rd and long... (AND shows the main difference between he and Cousins ..   he's big.)

Scramble prolongs a drive. Another scramble prolongs another drive. the Water buffalo play prolongs a drive, followed up by a holding call that prolongs a drive.. and it's no wonder they're scoring TDs.. these plays make the difference. They give him these mismatches that allow a receiver to dust the safety, the TE to trample into the end zone.

Wentz is a good young QB, and Cousins is a good QB. They are in different situations and have different physical attributes that affect their skill sets differently.

Making straight comparisons is just straight pointless.

 

~Bang

 

[Audible_Red40]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

A receiving corps

Based on this thread, ours is a receiving Corpse.

 

[HOF44]

33 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

He wouldn't be running and not sliding if this were the case.

I’d imagine he’s insured huge money for injury, if not he needs to fire his agent. 

[SWFLSkins]

7 hours ago, Long n Left said:

And with them last year, and essentially the same offensive players the Skins went 8-7-1.

 

Completely different Defense this year, team might again be around .500 but that is not because of the O. 

[thebeermonkey]

The receivers have been terrible. They cannot get open deep at all. We’ve been winning on screens but defences know that Cousin’s deep ball is erratic and the receivers don’t run their routes properly. 

 

The latest press conference from Gruden is alarming when he’s talking about the receivers and what they need to work on.

[SlkyCaramel]

1 hour ago, thebeermonkey said:

The receivers have been terrible. They cannot get open deep at all. We’ve been winning on screens but defences know that Cousin’s deep ball is erratic and the receivers don’t run their routes properly. 

 

The latest press conference from Gruden is alarming when he’s talking about the receivers and what they need to work on.

 

I mean, Gruden also said this. I don't think it's all on the receivers nor all on Kirk. I *do* think the receiving corps aren't very good. I don't buy that was the reason we lost the three games we did though.  

 

 

[SlkyCaramel]

Also lots of talk about whether it was receivers not getting open or Cousins missing them....Mark Bullock broke down some plays

 

 

[zCommander]

Now that Pryor has been benched for Doctson let's see how many yards we get now. 

[ThomasRoane]

Jay needs to borrow a page from Joe Gibbs playbook who scrapped his air Coryell passing game for a smash mouth running game in his first year.  Only flip it.  Gruden should not be lining up anybody as a TE the rest of the year.  None of them can be counted on to block (or even get in the way of) a DE or LB.  Neither Reed nor Davis should be within 5 yards of an OT. 

 

Then get your guys that are being productive on the field.  Thompson, Reed, Davis, Doctson along with either Grant or Crowder.  Although Grant has an edge in production right now.  (Crowder is a major disappointment this year)  Let the other receivers battle it out for scraps.  Time for Gruden to break the usual mold and innovate.  Because if he tries to stay traditional then the results will be okay but never great. 

 

This would also allow Kirk build up a chemistry with 4 guys.  The difference between Kirk and Wentz is that Wentz can at least trust his guys to catch a ball when wide open, run the correct route, and get beyond the sticks on 3rd and short!

[SkinsFTW]

3 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

The difference between Kirk and Wentz is that Wentz can at least trust his guys to catch a ball when wide open, run the correct route, and get beyond the sticks on 3rd and short!

 

Wentz also is not on his 3rd 1 year contract in a row and he's not being judged on whether he throws a bunch of picks trying to throw to guys who can't run routes or have no hands by the proven imbeciles running his team.

 

At least that's how Cousins is probably looking at it. He's thinking it's not his fault the team has no running game and no WR's worth throwing to. Hey, he's got a TE who was supposed to be done 3 years ago (but he still doesn't get credit for improving the games of players that even if Peyton Manning couldn't), a TE thats even more of a gimp after the FO gambled by paying him, and an above average pass catching RB that no other team in the league wanted when he wasn't on our 53. Championship!

 

Those guys that the ignorant claim "did it with no help" like Rodgers and Brady, never won a Championship without guys like Gronk, Edelman, Bennett, Hogan, RB White and his 60 catches for 5tds and Blount and his 18 rushing TD's, and in fact the ONE time Rodgers won a SB his receivers just happened to be Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, and Jordy Nelson.

 

It's like they totally did it all on their own!!!

 

I'm sure Kirk would totally suck with Gronk instead of Davis, Bennett instead of Reed, Hogan instead of Crowder, Edelman instead of Pryor, and White and Blount instead of Thompson and (insert random weekly scrub starting RB) with backups like Amendola and Mitchell. I'm sure that he couldn't use 2 RB's that account for 23 total TD's.

 

There's just no way Kirk could achieve any success with guys like that or the 2010 Packers playmakers, or Roethlisberger's last SB team and it's #1 defense along with Willie Parker, Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, and Heath Miller.

 

The real problem isn't the FO that can't find a single offensive weapon as good as any of those starters on those SB teams, at least thats what Allen and Snyder have set up for you to believe and apparently some have actually taken the bait and ran with it.  

 

Here's what the rest of the league see's when they look at the Redskins:

 

 

[Cliffmark1]

If we had garcon and not pryor we would have 2 more wins imo. 

[Tsailand]

On 10/24/2017 at 10:36 AM, Taylorcooley1 said:

How does Pryor have the kind of year he had in Cleveland with the qbs he had than come here and not do ****?

 

Jackson and Pryor had the same yards and TDs last year.  Garcon had 35 more yards but one less TD.

 

Jackson did it on 100 targets. Garcon on 114. Pryor on 140.

 

There;'s your answer.  Pryor was mediocre last year too.  We just didn't realize it.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I was watching an NFL Network segment the other day end with the conclusion that the Redskins aren't a playoff team because of their subpar receivers.  I was reading MMQB where Andy Beniot wrote a segment about how the receiver play is going to dog the possibility of success of the Redskins this season.  Then on the radio today, I heard it being discussed that the Redskins don't even have one receiver in the top 90 receivers in the NFL stats wise -- 90!  Most teams have two receivers in the top 90.

 

The Kirk is the problem bandwagon is pretty small.  The receivers are the problem is a fairly talked about issue.    I wanted Garcon or D. Jax back but was OK once they let them go -- I bought into the Pryor hype but I was wrong.  I forgot which Redskins insider talked about it recently, I think it was Theismann, who basically said the Redskins have a bunch of #3 receivers let alone even a #2 type thus far.

 

Having said that I still think Doctson will come through -- he's looked decent in his short stints.  And I presume Crowder will get going eventually.

 

 

[Tsailand]

On 10/24/2017 at 3:11 PM, Bang said:

Crodwer has pulled the ol' "I'm goin out fr a pack of smokes" and disappear trick

 

Heh, yeah, that's a good one.  I pulled it on my kid five years ago and he still hasn't realized! 

 

I mean, I haven't heard from him or his mom since.  So that's good.

[illone]

The Eagles just played better on those days, like you said.

[Peregrine]

I think people are reading a bit too much into things, looking for answers.  Look, the Eagles had a massive advantage over us, half their team wasnt injured.

 

Beyond that, it really comes down to one simple and impossible to define thing:Making plays.  In a game of inches, a number of times in that game there were plays that should have gone our way, but our player missed the catch, deflection, block, sack.  They had the same plays and somehow made them.  Those 3-4 big made plays or mistakes are what makes the difference in a game that could have gone 10 points in our direction, but didnt.

 

You can stat things as much as you want, but sometimes its just a guy making plays in the moment.  At least 1 TD from the Eagles was just from Wentz making a play when he should have been sacked.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 9:29 AM, Burgold said:

I think the answer is that the Redskins are just so risk averse. How many deep shots did we take yesterday? How many contested throws? They just play too damn safe and too damn timid. The whole idea of going from small and quick to big is that the receivers can use their bodies to win balls and get to balls that smaller receivers lose out on.

 

We don't give our receivers a chance. I don't know if they fail to get open every play. You can't tell that from the TV coverage, but I can tell you unless we're in desperation mode we rarely ever try. We're the passing offense version of three yards and a cloud of dust.

I agree whole heartily, I was telling some friends the same thing, we have 2 WR's in Terrell and Doctson who can high point the ball over any DB in the league, and not once do we see Cousins giving them a chance to do so, I mean on 4th down Monday night, game is basically over, you throw the ball out of bounds??? Throw it up at least you have a chance....Cousins doesn't seem to want to hurt his TD/INT ratio!!!

Underthrowing deep routes, back shoulder throws can be a big part of a passing game, especially when you have 2 WR's who can out jump and take the ball away from any DB in the league!!!   

Cousins seems content with throwing to his backs and TE's, short high percentage routes....Hmmmmm?

[skins island connection]

7 hours ago, THE HAMMER'IN HOG said:

I agree whole heartily, I was telling some friends the same thing, we have 2 WR's in Terrell and Doctson who can high point the ball over any DB in the league, and not once do we see Cousins giving them a chance to do so, I mean on 4th down Monday night, game is basically over, you throw the ball out of bounds??? Throw it up at least you have a chance....Cousins doesn't seem to want to hurt his TD/INT ratio!!!

Underthrowing deep routes, back shoulder throws can be a big part of a passing game, especially when you have 2 WR's who can out jump and take the ball away from any DB in the league!!!   

Cousins seems content with throwing to his backs and TE's, short high percentage routes....Hmmmmm?

 

 That's a cynical way to look at it. But I thought the same thing.

 I think it can be viewed in a few different ways though, and I hope Cousins isn't protecting his own interest, but it does leave one to wonder.

 

 Its a different thing when the QB doesn't trust the WRs to go up and battle for the ball, and I'm sure at practice its happening all the time, just not in real game situations. This team definitely needs at least 2 more WRs, who are tall and have abilities to step up when its needed, and I don't see Doctson or Pryor stepping up, I just see them stepping in it.

[Taylorcooley1]

On 10/24/2017 at 7:48 AM, SWFLSkins said:

Giants got production out of who? It's Gruden folks, it's on him. 

Okay so say we still had Jackson and Garcon here would the production on offense still look the same?..... So then I guess it's McVay we truly miss

[SWFLSkins]

48 minutes ago, Taylorcooley1 said:

Okay so say we still had Jackson and Garcon here would the production on offense still look the same?..... So then I guess it's McVay we truly miss

 

Actually if either Garcon or DJax were here the production would be better. Jay McVay combo wasn't working so smooth either, 2015 was better, when McVay was mostly handling calls. 

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Actually if either Garcon or DJax were here the production would be better. Jay McVay combo wasn't working so smooth either, 2015 was better, when McVay was mostly handling calls. 

2016 wasn't exactly clean sailing either. We had the debacles with redzone playcalling. Moving the ball over the rest of the field was nice that season, but once we got to the redzone, we just faded. Literally.

[Taylorcooley1]

59 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Actually if either Garcon or DJax were here the production would be better. Jay McVay combo wasn't working so smooth either, 2015 was better, when McVay was mostly handling calls. 

Soooo what ur reaalllllyyyy tryyyingg to sayyyy is..we should have put mcvay in charge and **** canned Gruden..good call..

[SWFLSkins]

1 minute ago, NickyJ said:

2016 wasn't exactly clean sailing either. We had the debacles with redzone playcalling. Moving the ball over the rest of the field was nice that season, but once we got to the redzone, we just faded. Literally.

 

That's what I am saying, 2015 much better call wise. Though productive in '16 the team was not fluid, clock and play call wise. 

[zCommander]

On 10/24/2017 at 12:12 PM, SlkyCaramel said:

 

Again, please stop putting our losses on the receivers. It's rather absurd. They're problematic for sure.  But the team had amazing receivers last year and still missed the playoffs and went 8-7-1

 

Please stop putting all the loses on Kirk as well, if that is where you are going with it. How many games last year were lost because of our D? I will wait for your answer while you look it up. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I must have missed that day in school when the fans put it all on the receivers.  I could have sworn I have read criticism of the RB, LG, QB, TE and several other positions not to mention the head coach.

 

With that said the receivers certainly deserve criticism. I don't know how anyone can argue with that.