SlkyCaramel Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Look the receiver play on the Redskins isn't great. Guess what? Neither is the receiver play on the 6-1 Eagles. They haven't had a receiver hit 100 yards ALL SEASON. Not once in 7 games. Their leading receiver is Ertz. That's not much different than ours being Vernon Davis or Chris Thompson. They also don't have some elite running game. Blount is barely top 10 in rushing attack (we are obviously lower but have been plagued with injuries there). Their defensive line is fine. However coming into this game, and having played one more game the the Redskins, they still had LESS sacks and QB pressure than the Skins. They have the 29th ranked passing defense in the league. 29th! That is not some elite defense. The secondary has been completely average. So where is the difference? I'm honestly asking because I'm rather baffled by the notion that they're a much better team. They obviously were better on both days they played us but I don't see an elite level team anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I think the answer is that the Redskins are just so risk averse. How many deep shots did we take yesterday? How many contested throws? They just play too damn safe and too damn timid. The whole idea of going from small and quick to big is that the receivers can use their bodies to win balls and get to balls that smaller receivers lose out on. We don't give our receivers a chance. I don't know if they fail to get open every play. You can't tell that from the TV coverage, but I can tell you unless we're in desperation mode we rarely ever try. We're the passing offense version of three yards and a cloud of dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Other than Ertz, the Eagles skill position players looked about on par with ours, if not worse. Last night showed us the difference between a solid fundamentally sound QB and a playmaker at the position. Kirk was fine, good at times. Wentz made plays, not just regular plays, but plays that weren't there when the football was initially snapped. Wentz did the kinds of things you absolutely need out of a QB you are committing long term money to. One of Kirk's biggest weaknesses continues to be his inability to adjust after the snap of the ball. Football looks like a math problem to him. Every play has one answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorcooley1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I think it's obvious we miss Garcon and Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Giants got production out of who? It's Gruden folks, it's on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, Taylorcooley1 said: I think it's obvious we miss Garcon and Jackson. So this teams needs to have two 1000 yard receivers to be successful? What other teams have that? I'll answer that, NONE. And also the team with the best record in the NFL doesn't have anything close to a Jackson or Garcon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Ertz being the leading receiver for the Eagles is no different then Thompson and Davis being our leading receivers? Ertz is at least top 10 right now. Davis isn't even in the top 50. I'm trying to think of a successful team that's leading receiver was a part-time RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 It’s pretty clear with us that it is not just one issue. It’s always been a combination of many things. We have a chance to win a game and Kirk will throw an interception. Maybe we need this 1st down to run out the clock but the WR will drop the ball. Get this sack to give the ball backto your offense but you can’t bevause the QB pinballs himself and dashes for 20 yards. Even on a bigger level there is always injuries that just devestate us. Coaches that can’t adjust. Why are we making Pryor run the same plays that Garcon and Jackson were running. That’s not who he is. And management that makes massive blunders, like killing the offense by getting rid of both starting WRs, not just 1 but both. Its who we are. It’s what we do. Year after year. The more things change the more they stay the same. No this is not emotion speaking, this is 27 years of evidence. Still they are heading in the right direction. Give them another 10 years and we might get that magical 10 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, drowland said: Ertz being the leading receiver for the Eagles is no different then Thompson and Davis being our leading receivers? Ertz is at least top 10 right now. Davis isn't even in the top 50. I'm trying to think of a successful team that's leading receiver was a part-time RB. Do you really think this is the difference in them being 6-1? Ertz? He is the leading tight end in football and I believe Thompson is top 10 in yards from scrimmage or something. That's a wash IMO. As far as skill positions go, the teams are about even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 42 minutes ago, Burgold said: I think the answer is that the Redskins are just so risk averse. How many deep shots did we take yesterday? How many contested throws? They just play too damn safe and too damn timid. I just wonder if a part of this isn't KC not wanting to "risk" crapping the bed. A side effect of 1 year deals for your QB. In the back of his mind he has to know he is auditioning for a LTD and is leary of blowing that up. That thought will never be given any credence by the team or the QB though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I've heard Gruden getting a fair bit of flak for not starting Pryor. I really don't understand why anyone would be against Pryors hands sitting on the bench. He's been given adequate chance to show something and seems to forget that crisp routes and actually catching the ball are key components to being an NFL receiver. I personally was ecstatic to see Doctson getting his snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorcooley1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 45 minutes ago, SlkyCaramel said: So this teams needs to have two 1000 yard receivers to be successful? What other teams have that? I'll answer that, NONE. And also the team with the best record in the NFL doesn't have anything close to a Jackson or Garcon. With a combination of a couple other things we do to miss Garcon and Jackson How does Pryor have the kind of year he had in Cleveland with the qbs he had than come here and not do ****? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long n Left Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 55 minutes ago, Taylorcooley1 said: I think it's obvious we miss Garcon and Jackson. And with them last year, and essentially the same offensive players the Skins went 8-7-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Taylorcooley1 said: With a combination of a couple other things we do to miss Garcon and Jackson How does Pryor have the kind of year he had in Cleveland with the qbs he had than come here and not do ****? I didn't say the receivers are great or that they aren't missed. But MOST teams don't have two 1000 yard receivers. Asking for that every year is asking a lot. And again the team with the best record in the NFL does not have a wide receiver that is on pace to even come close to 1000 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorcooley1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, Long n Left said: And with them last year, and essentially the same offensive players the Skins went 8-7-1. And we would be setting alot prettier right now if they were still here..with mcvay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Then why does most everyone that actually knows about and analyzes football for a living seem to agree that these receivers as a whole are trash? Bang pretty much killed it in the Common Kirk thread about 2 hours ago. He broke down for you exactly why these guys have been awful. The playcalling really isn't helping anyone out either. The Eagles adjusted and called plays to get guys open with their speed vs. our secondary. Perhaps we don't have the luxury of creating good matchups with what we have, but we didn't appear to try either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorcooley1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 With an exception of a couple games..doesn't cousins miss open receivers almost weekly?..I think Doctson was open last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long n Left Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, Taylorcooley1 said: With an exception of a couple games..doesn't cousins miss open receivers almost weekly?..I think Doctson was open last night. I was at FedEx last week 50 yard line, club level, and saw guys getting open downfield, especially Doctson, but Kirk would take the higher percentage throw. It seems to me that Kirk is solid at pre snap reads, but less adept at coming off those if something else opens up. Yes, Kirk is running better this season, but he still is not good at extending plays with movement and finding guys open. I'm not about to glorify this receiving corps, but it takes two to complete passes. Receivers need to run good routes and get open, and QBs need to find them when they do. Neither is mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 It boils down to the fact/observation that Kirk does not amplify any receivers. He does not have the ability to. He is an average QB that’s comfortable in a system. That’s going to equal 7-9 wins a year as we have seen in every one of his years as a starter. Its not even fair to criticize him to be honest. He was a 4th round pick for a reason. He wasn’t highly recruited for a reason. He has no physical gifts. I used to get mad when ppl like Andy Benoit and PFF used to rate him so low in QB rankings but I get it. He can do well at times when he’s in a comfortable system but he is unable to elevate those around him. If the Skins weren’t a **** organization, they would have signed him for cheap years ago and the over analyzing wouldn’t happen. Now, he’s in line for $799644M and that (perhaps unfairly) amplified his flaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 To even compare our Receivers to the Eagles is insane. Pryor 18 for 223 and 1 TD Grant 16 for 177 and 2 TD Docston 7 for 129 and 2 TD Davis 15 for 293 and 1 TD Reed 26 for 206 2 TD Thompson 23 for 366 and 3 TD Crowder 19 for 149 0 TD Iggles... Agholor 24 for 366 5 TD Jeffery 26 for 354 2 TD Ertz 39 for 494 and 5 TD Smith 14 for 210 1 TD When your best receiver is a running back thats not good....I didnt even list the others on the eagles because there is no point the eagles have better receivers....those 4 alone out produce all of ours. The problem is our receivers dont scare any of the defensive coordinators right now i dont know why but they are really getting shut down one on one which is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Dude, they have the league MVP throwing to them. The only one anybody thought was even decent before this season was Jeffrey and he’s very overrated. Wentz is making them better. Ertz is looking like the best TE in the league after disappointing for most of his career honestly we are very similar to them on offense. Weak receivers, good tight ends, excellent O line difference is that their QB is playing off worldly right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said: To even compare our Receivers to the Eagles is insane. Pryor 18 for 223 and 1 TD Grant 16 for 177 and 2 TD Docston 7 for 129 and 2 TD Davis 15 for 293 and 1 TD Reed 26 for 206 2 TD Thompson 23 for 366 and 3 TD Iggles... Agholor 24 for 366 5 TD Jeffery 26 for 354 2 TD Ertz 39 for 494 and 5 TD Smith 14 for 210 1 TD When your best receiver is a running back thats not good....I didnt even list the others on the eagles because there is no point the eagles have better receivers....those 4 alone out produce all of ours. I mean, these stats are fine but again lets not act like any of this is somehow amazingly productive. The only impressive stat there is Ertz. Agholor, Jeffrey and Smith don't rank in the top 20 in receiving yards. They're mediocre. Ours might be a little less than mediocre but that's mediocre. Is your argument that any of these players are elite or above average? Because they aren't. And those stats are a result of Wentz making plays 90% of the time honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I for one am anxiously waiting for the Josh Doctson Era to begin. Any week now. We're seeing glimpses, but it almost feels like Kirk is reluctant to throw to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, SlkyCaramel said: I mean, these states are fine but again lets not act like any of this is somehow amazingly productive. The only impressive stat there is Ertz. Agholor, Jeffrey and Smith don't rank in the top 20 in receiving yards. They're mediocre. Ours might be a little less than mediocre but that's mediocre. Yeah but overall they are better. No question in my mind our guys cant get open one on one you just need 4 dbs to cover them and then you can send everyone at cousins its ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, SlkyCaramel said: Look the receiver play on the Redskins isn't great. Guess what? Neither is the receiver play on the 6-1 Eagles. They haven't had a receiver hit 100 yards ALL SEASON. Not once in 7 games. Their leading receiver is Ertz. That's not much different than ours being Vernon Davis or Chris Thompson. Alshon Jeffrey and Nelson Agholor have both out performed our WR corps. So let's not sell their play short. The two of them have 50 catches, 720 yards, 7 TDs. The ENTIRE Redskins WR corps has 54 catches, 679 yards, 5 TDs. 100 yards is an arbitrary number. Do they get loose and catch them when they matter. Their WRs do, our WRs, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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