Putting this all on the receiver play doesn't work for me

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

9 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Your comments are consistently sarcastic when it is not what you think - nothing new here.  You sure are consistent.  

Well I just wanted to make that OCD - CDO joke and I didn't know when I'd ever have the chance again. Not really related to what you think or whether or not I agree with it.

 

My comment about your arguments wasn't sarcastic at all. Pretty straight forward and apt to this post as well. You just say the first thing that farts into your head but there isn't any actual thought or truth behind it.

 

You: He's scared

Someone: Well why does he throw his body around like that for the team?

You: He's OCD and does stupid things

Me: What?

 

Me: Your arguments are pretty weak and smack of desperation, attempting to say anything negative but with very little thought behind it.

You: You're sarcastic.

Me: What?

[SkinsFTW]

 

19 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I am glad I can be a source of entertainment for you.  

 

Many of Cousin proponents are equally out of touch with reality including yourself. 

 

 

 

. 

 

 

He is right though. Here we have a clear narcissist deciding that he knows for a fact that Cousins problem is that he is a narcissist.

 

It's pure comedy gold. 

 

I just happen to be an Electronics Engineer and I want to jump in on this  narcissistic game as well therefore I will submit that you obviously have it all wrong and anybody who knows what I know would surely agree.

 

Cousins suffers from poor Cellular Service and needs to get on the Verizon Network asap. He'll be 10x the QB once he corrects this one life altering problem.

[skinsmania123]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hypnotherapist, interesting profession.  That's really cool.    But since you are using your profession to in essence say you are credible on this.  I'll politely say and in good spirits it doesn't sway me as to this specific debate.    I am not a professional but I am also not a psychology novice.  Minored in it in college.  6 credits from a major.  I even started a master's in psychology for a year but switched to political science specializing in political psychology (still with a heavy psych concentration).  I did graduate research on a number of conditions, worked in a home with people with various problems including manic depression, schizophrenia and some forms of OCD. 

 

I've read a bunch of books on sports psychology (reading right now the Chimp Paradox) -- Jimmy Johnson was a big social psychology guy and referred back to some of its precepts in his coaching.   He recommended the book Flow which talked about finding that zone by finding that automatic pilot where you find your zone to achieve peak performance.  I am not a professional like you.  But I am at least slightly more well versed than the average Joe on the topic.   So I wanted to point out that I follow your points about the subconscious at least a hair better than someone with no background at all on this. 

 

My kids did the QB camp with Kirk a year back, did a Q And A with the dude for about 40 minutes, just me and 10 other parents.  We asked him a bunch of questions.  I am a football junkie like yourself, watched every game.  I've read almost every interview that Kirk has had.  I read his book. I'd say my exposure to Kirk is at least above average.  Still I don't think I have an easy window into his psyche. 

 

Kirk is indeed cautious in a press conference (and I like that ) but a guy who is willing to shout You Like That, rub Scot's hair and yell how do you like me now on national TV -- can be ballsy.  His wife actually has talked about that side of Kirk's personality.  So has Kirk.  The dude IMO has some moxie to him.   I

You being a psychology guy should know a mile better than most (including myself) that many things aren't really about seeing is believing but believing is seeing.   Once you got a schema stuck in your head about a certain person, its hard to unstuck it -- instead, you find things that fit.   

 

With me as to Kirk.  Before he became a starter, I was up and down on him.  When he became a starter, I just felt that he deserved (like any young QB) patience and I let the movie play out and form an opinion after that season.  I am not married to any player on the team, they can come and go.  I am all about the team and that includes Kirk.  However, I don't think this team is successful without him.  And to your point -- heck no do I agree that we all in our hearts think Kirk can't carry the team.  To each their own but to me that's absurd.  I've seen him carry this team for three years running.  IMO this is a 4-12, 5-11 type of team without him.

 

Yes, people indeed like to stay consistent as to their behavior and personality.  That's true.  And that very concept plays IMO into these debates.  I think when you debate sports there is a driving need to be right.  So if your identity as a sports fan has a basis in that -- you often stick with your preconceptions through thick and thin regardless of the data.    It's part of the reason why I think some of Kirk's critics feel validated after time the team loses regardless of his performance -- because it easier to find something that fits -- hey a loss is a loss or whatever.

 

If you study Kirk specifically.  The dude is constantly trying to improve -- including ironically being very into psychology based performance books. He talks about it plenty.  He subscribes to some sort of mental performance based outfit that he taps into if I recall during the season.  He's not what I would call someone who is stuck in his ways.  It's part of the reason why he's elevated himself from a 4th round pick into a starter in this league who is in the top 5 or 10 in every major metric.

 

If you think he needs your services?  Funny enough he'd be the type to take you up on it.   I appreciate your post and after reading it -- I got no doubt your take here is sincere and ditto your fandom but I don't see things they way you do here.  And I know from being engaged in various Kirk threads for months -- there are plenty of people who are with me (not all) who don't as you say think deep down in their hearts that Kirk can't carry the team.   Quite the opposite.

 

 

 

 

I have seen the ballsy Kirk but it does not translate over consistently onto the field or his game.    And to say I am looking for business give me a break. I do not work in the field of sports psychology. I have M.A. in clinical psychology and I work in the field of trauma using Hypnotherapy and other techniques. 

 

  Although I must say you have me thinking now that  a sports psychologist with a good background in Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP) would be great for Kirk.  Worked for Russell Wilson when he first came into the league.  You might have something there.  He sure needs someone's services. 

 

 I really think everyone has studied Kirk a bit and we have all seen that - he is efficient at times moving the ball.  He makes some plays that are amazing.  BUT he is is inconsistent.  He chokes in big games,  And his RZ efficiency is in the toilet.  So that really makes all that yardage smoke and mirrors - an illusion IMO because if there was consistency he would get it in the EZ.  

 

We leave so many points on the field.  It is not just this year.  It was last year too when he had the "weapons" that now have eluded him at the WR position. Who cares that he has CT, Davis, or even our lambasted in the past but now resurrected Ryan Grant.  And Reed seems to be doing well the last few games.  Point is he has weapons. It is how you use the players that are doing something.  And that is NOT all on Cousin's.  Gruden calls the plays. That is a whole other topic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[skinsmania123]

17 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Well I just wanted to make that OCD - CDO joke and I didn't know when I'd ever have the chance again. Not really related to what you think or whether or not I agree with it.

 

My comment about your arguments wasn't sarcastic at all. Pretty straight forward and apt to this post as well. You just say the first thing that farts into your head but there isn't any actual thought or truth behind it.

 

You: He's scared

Someone: Well why does he throw his body around like that for the team?

You: He's OCD and does stupid things

Me: What?

 

Me: Your arguments are pretty weak and smack of desperation, attempting to say anything negative but with very little thought behind it.

You: You're sarcastic.

Me: What?

I am happy you could make an inside joke for yourself and hopefully for anyone else you know on here who will get a chuckle out of it.  

 

Did you know that Cousin's books every single moment of his day?  Did you know that?  Down to the minute.  Did you ever read that article? Probably not. People thought it was funny when it came out.  I think it was last year.  I was not amused by it at all.

 

People with obsessive tendencies even in sports do "stupid things" and I am saying it again, to not do something that is considered  "really stupid".  If you do not know anything about OCD and the problems it causes then you would of course think it is a weak argument.    

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

34 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I am happy you could make an inside joke for yourself and hopefully for anyone else you know on here who will get a chuckle out of it.  

 

Did you know that Cousin's books every single moment of his day?  Did you know that?  Down to the minute.  Did you ever read that article? Probably not. People thought it was funny when it came out.  I think it was last year.  I was not amused by it at all.

 

People with obsessive tendencies even in sports do "stupid things" and I am saying it again, to not do something that is considered  "really stupid".  If you do not know anything about OCD and the problems it causes then you would of course think it is a weak argument.    

That's not what an inside joke is... Not that it matters. Just my CDO kicking in.

 

I read the article. At the beginning of the year he, ONE TIME, made a daily planner that was broken down into 15 minute increments. Probably looked something like this...

or this...

or this...

or this...

Here's a sample of what detailing his day in 15 minute blocks might look like...

12:00 Practice

12:15 '' ''

12:30 '' ''

12:45 '' ''

1:00 '' ''

1:15 '' ''

1:30 '' ''

1:45 '' ''

2:00 Shower

2:15 Drive home

2:30 '' ''

2:45 Make sweet, sweet love

2:50 Madden

3:00 '' ''

 

It probably took him an hour to make the whole thing.... Which a lot of people do. You're trying to make it out like he redoes this every day down to the single minute. Are you in the habit of making clinical psychological diagnoses of patients you've never met from one press conference throw away line? Not many people out there have the scope and skill set of performing complex psychoanalytic evaluations in 30 seconds AND evaluating & analyzing NFL quarterbacks. That's pretty friggin' impressive.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

People with obsessive tendencies even in sports do "stupid things" and I am saying it again, to not do something that is considered  "really stupid".  If you do not know anything about OCD and the problems it causes then you would of course think it is a weak argument.    

 

Wade Boggs had the same routine every day, would even eat the same meal. OCD.  Some say (including him) that's what made him a great hitter.   Brady is a freak about routine.  A lot of athletes are.  You talk about NLP -- its one of Tony Robbins' big things who coaches some athletes -- I watched him once talk about how he trained Andre Agassi right down to bouncing the ball in a specific way before every serve.   

 

2 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

I have seen the ballsy Kirk but it does not translate over consistently onto the field or his game.  

 

 

 

I think Shannon Sharpe explained it well a few days back.  The top 4 QBs in the league are in the own stratosphere.  Then you got the next level of guys and Kirk is in that part of the conversation.   Just about every QB has bad games as part of the soup.  Even Brady and Brees will have a lemon or two in the mix.  I think "consistency" is a bit of a fantasy if it translates to having no bad games.  Ditto the "carry the team" narrative.  No QB in my view really carries a team.  I define carry a team as a QB that is the prime reason for why a team wins.  Kirk in my view fits that to a tee.  The team rarely wins in spite of Kirk.  We don't have that type of team.  That would be a team like Seattle.  You could see at times, Wilson has had horrific games during his career and Seattle wins anyway.  If Kirk has a bad game, the team loses just about always.  The team's strengths are Kirk/passing game.  Not the other stuff. 

 

Eric Mangini (who knows a thing or two about football) ran through Kirk's stats specifically as to game winning drives on TV a few days back and said they are Bradyesque if you go through the numbers. They are actually very good.  We've done that drill many times on the Kirk thread, don't feel like repeating it here. Why doesn't it feel that way to some, though?  The dude has had some bad moments (few QB haven't) which IMO have been overrepresented in some people's minds because of the emotionality of it.  Losing isn't fun.  It's more memorable.   But if you cut through all of that and go through it calmly and "clinically".  The idea that Kirk isn't clutch is a false narrative -- worse case you can make is he's had some bad moments so when you factor that in that soup -- so he's average in those spots.  

[skinsmania123]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wade Boggs had the same routine every day, would even eat the same meal. OCD.  Some say (including him) that's what made him a great hitter.   Brady is a freak about routine.  A lot of athletes are.  You talk about NLP -- its one of Tony Robbins' big things who coaches some athletes -- I watched him once talk about how he trained Andre Agassi right down to bouncing the ball in a specific way before every serve.   

Routines are very different then minute accountings for every part of one's day for control and containment.  Routines to me are definitely forms of containment but I bet you might agree that there are degrees of obsessive behaviors for containment and control.  Minute accounting for every minute of one's day is extreme on the  OCD scale which is an anxiety disorder as I am sure you know.  I thought Cousin's was hyperventilating practically on the sidelines before the one playoff game against the Packers.  My buddy and I noticed it and were like oh boy.  

 

 Yeah Tony Robbins learned from the creators of NLP who were actually computer programming engineers - Bandler and Grinder.  I studied under Bandler who was the best and worked with Tony Robbins - who is really the Tom Brady of the coaching world.  I had no idea he worked with Andre Agassi that is amazing.  I really enjoy those types of stories because it helps my field a lot.

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Shannon Sharpe explained it well a few days back.  The top 4 QBs in the league are in the own stratosphere.  Then you got the next level of guys and Kirk is in that part of the conversation.   Just about every QB has bad games as part of the soup.  Even Brady and Brees will have a lemon or two in the mix.  I think "consistency" is a bit of a fantasy if it translates to having no bad games.  Ditto the "carry the team" narrative.  No QB in my view really carries a team.  I define carry a team as a QB that is the prime reason for why a team wins.  Kirk in my view fits that to a tee.  The team rarely wins in spite of Kirk.  We don't have that type of team.  That would be a team like Seattle.  You could see at times, Wilson has had horrific games during his career and Seattle wins anyway.  If Kirk has a bad game, the team loses just about always.  The team's strengths are Kirk/passing game.  Not the other stuff. 

 

Don't you think just being completely frank that Wilson's O-line is horrendous and that they have done very little in the past two seasons to change that? I admit if Cousin's threw that INT in the SB on the 2 yard line like Wilson I would definitely tear him up verbally on here. I admit it.   

 

But here is my thoughts on Cousin's based upon 2016.   I wanted to see him last year make a quantum leap.  I think good QB's put up numbers and great QB's win games.  Like Aaron Rodgers. I think  he has carried his team to be honest a number of times going down and winning with a minute on the clock. Even Cam Newton has done it and I do not see him as elite.  But some do see him as top tier. 

 

  I admit that last year Cousin's put up great numbers - second in the NFL I think.  But when his team needed him the most he could not beat the mess - a 6-8 Lowly  Panthers team.  It was a must win in primetime game.  And how can you say that was acceptable on any level in the thick of a playoff race?  It something even a mid tier QB gets done.  He choked it away.  I thought that was his game to prove himself.   He needed a TD.  They pressured him upfront and he folded like a cheap tent.

 

 And this year? I thought last week was his week to prove himself again. I even predicted he might. Yes, I know Swearinger got beat in coverage and was exposed a few times but i thought this was Cousin's chance to come back and throw another TD pass and go head to head with Philthy's secondary and most of all head to head with Wentz.  He didn't.    

 

 

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Eric Mangini (who knows a thing or two about football) ran through Kirk's stats specifically as to game winning drives on TV a few days back and said they are Bradyesque if you go through the numbers. They are actually very good.  We've done that drill many times on the Kirk thread, don't feel like repeating it here. Why doesn't it feel that way to some, though?  The dude has had some bad moments (few QB haven't) which IMO have been overrepresented in some people's minds because of the emotionality of it.  Losing isn't fun.  It's more memorable.   But if you cut through all of that and go through it calmly and "clinically".  The idea that Kirk isn't clutch is a false narrative -- worse case you can make is he's had some bad moments so when you factor that in that soup -- so he's average in those spots.  

I think it is the types of games he loses Skinsinparadise.  That is what absolutely annoys the hell out of me. For the type of money he thinks he is worth he has to win those sorts of games like the Panthers that I mentioned. He needed to win that game against the New York Giants - another must win when the Giants had nothing to play for but momentum.   I don't think he is clutch when it really matters.  I just don't.    

 

I am hoping to always be wrong about Cousins. People can think what they want but all i want are wins. My friends know this. We agree and disagree on Cousin's. For today I hope we stomp the **** out of the Cowpokes and Kirk Cousins throws 5 TD passes.  

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

  I admit that last year Cousin's put up great numbers - second in the NFL I think.  But when his team needed him the most he could not beat the mess - a 6-8 Lowly  Panthers team.  It was a must win in primetime game.  And how can you say that was acceptable on any level in the thick of a playoff race?  

 

By that standard, hardly any QB is acceptable.  Peyton Manning would be a comical punch line (Colts should have dumped the Peyton early in his career and cut their losses) if its all about isolating games and saying how could you fail in THAT big game.  I could use the same narrative about almost any QB (maybe sans Brady) including really clutch QBs like Matt Stafford who have also failed in big games.

 

9 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 I don't think he is clutch when it really matters.  I just don't.    

 

I can see that but to get there you need to have selective memory.  Kirk out-duels to take the division on a prime time game in 2015.  But forgotten.  Who cares.   (Other examples of this, too -- Mangini went over 10 game winning drives) Instead, lets focus on his 75% completion rate, 300 plus yards against the Eagles where our defense couldn't keep the Eagles off the field -- and yeah if we are paying Kirk big money, then do it better, maybe a 90% completion rate and 450 yards and just overcome at all -- because that's what really all very good QBs do?  To each their own but it feels like flailing and big time flailing -- an emotional reaction to loses that hurt.  

 

So lets start over again with a Jag at the position and relive the Vinny years by using that saved money on some FA spree that we will fantasize will transform the team.  That movie wasn't so bad, was it?   The logical conclusion is lets make the team's one strength its weakness and watch the team transform. To each their own but the narrative is crazy to me and wrapped in emotion not logic.  I do think the team transforms if that plays out - it transforms to something closer to the Browns.

[skinny21]

Seems to me that Kirk is most apt to struggle against stout dlines, not so much in big games.  Now, if those two coincide (Giants last year), that's a different story.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

16 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

Again it is perception when it comes to evaluating why someone does what they do.   I made my point and I stand by it.  This is a message board for different opinions.  And for the most part people are very cool about accepting different opinions.

 

And what about last year when we had all the supposed weapons?    We lost to the Giants in part because of Cousins and he was fairly abysmal against the ****ty Panthers team as well.  We only needed one to get in the playoffs.  BUT our D was so horrible last year so doubtful we would have went anywhere.

 

Look without a solid Defense we are going nowhere with Cousin's.  He needs a lot of help around him.   Enough posters on here have pointed out he is not the type of QB you can ask to put the franchise on your back and win with.  He cannot do that. He is too fearful and way too calculating of risk/reward.  You can't be a winner at the QB position that way IMO.  It is just my opinion.  

 

 

 

I am the subscriber of the " team with the best QB in January advances" club.  So I share your concerns that Kirk is never going to take a team on his back to a title. I was just pointing out that your claim that he played too cautiously last year is simply not supported by the facts.  If he completed the most passes that traveled through the air (what the Hell IS that stat called) then he obviously threw it deep more than any other QB in the league.  So your claim is simply not backed by the facts.

 

I know how hard it is to find a QB who is better than Kirk Cousins.  Just look at the stable of QBs we have been trotting out since, well, since Joe Theisman. Kirk has demonstrated that he is the best one since the early 80's other than that magical '91 year by Ryp that can best be described as Haley's Comet.  Gone in a flash. Jim McMahon is the best Bears QB in 70 year.  We won't even discuss the Cleveland Browns' QB history. 

 

So it's like this for me.  Sure Kirk has limitations. We don't need to go into specific games to understand this.  I'm just saying there is no Plan B.  What is your Plan B?  Everyone knows the draft is a crap shoot.  Is anyone claiming today that Winston or Marriotta are showing signs of being any better than Kirk?  And they were the top 2 picks.

 

 

[CommanderDOOM]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

....its sort of like saying lets see how good these James Bond movies are by taking out James Bond -- Bond is the problem, the lead character is the dude ruining the Bond movies. 

 

Exactly! A Bond movie is about the franchise. It's made...it's a success. But Kc is like the Dalton playing Bond. Good, but not the same as SC. But he wants to be paid like SC. So rather than sacrifice the supporting cast----bad beautiful females, explosions, cars, and the evil villain------just let Lazenby do it till we draft Craig.

 

But is it me or are we using Pryor wrong. Let's stop the little man routes. Save the shifty **** for Crowder. Throw it up to him. If wanted a good route runner Harris is who we should've stuck with......I thought he should've been the one anyway.

Doctson's breakout game is near.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Exactly! A Bond movie is about the franchise. It's made...it's a success. But Kc is like the Dalton playing Bond. Good, but not the same as SC. But he wants to be paid like SC. So rather than sacrifice the supporting cast----bad beautiful females, explosions, cars, and the evil villain------just let Lazenby do it till we draft Craig.

 

 

Running with your analogy (and I liked Dalton) we will stick to Lazenby for another 20 years as we search for our elusive Daniel Craig (I like him, too) and we will rejoin the Browns as the laughing stocks of the NFL.  Hey why not?  That been the story for most of the Dan Snyder Redskins era.  At least we are used to it.  Sounds like a barrel of laughs. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

Routines are very different then minute accountings for every part of one's day for control and containment.  Routines to me are definitely forms of containment but I bet you might agree that there are degrees of obsessive behaviors for containment and control.  Minute accounting for every minute of one's day is extreme on the  OCD scale which is an anxiety disorder as I am sure you know.

Are you going to continue with this OCD narrative based on the one time, over a year ago, that he told reporters how he (again, one time) created a color-coded daily planner in 15 minute increments?

 

Let me offer a 2nd opinion on this diagnoses. He's a dork. He tried to do something to help with organization, was thinking it was pretty cool (it wasn't), and made sure to work it into the press conference. Less than a week later, he never looked at the thing again.

 

I googled "Cousins OCD". I did find a similar theory posited... from last January... by you... based on the same one sentence. Have you considered that maybe you are the one who is obsessive & compulsive?

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Ugly drop by doctson and another non impact day from Pryor, but nah, it ain't the receivers...

[Tsailand]

On 10/29/2017 at 6:04 AM, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

2:45 Make sweet, sweet love

2:50 Madden

 

Five whole minutes... truly NFL QBs are superhuman.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

13 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

Five whole minutes... truly NFL QBs are superhuman.

The man's a machine.

 

100% chance he's done a "YOU LIKE THAT!!!" bit at some point during coitus.

[skins island connection]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

The man's a machine.

 

100% chance he's done a "YOU LIKE THAT!!!" bit at some point during coitus.

 

 Uh, mom, whats a coitus?