The Skins RB situation....

[RandyHolt]

OK it turns out I am clueless on tech stuff. Bullock is saying we ran a lot more power and gap, less zone. Heh.  I thought it was the opposite. I do know I saw our OL pulling an awful lot, which I thought was more zone. Pardon any incorrect rants I went on saying we sucked in largely power for the past 8 games. I had seen no push off the LOS, which I thought was mostly power. And I guess I never stopped to realize Counter Trey is power from our Gibbs days. I saw some traps for sure. The OL did great when using their mobility no matter what it is called.

 

" thanks to a variety of diverse run plays, which included power runs, counters, traps, sweeps, crack tosses, pin-pulls and even unbalanced lines, the Rams were kept off balance the whole game. It was a textbook display of how to run the power schemes. "

 

All run game fans should take a look:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/09/20/redskins-run-game-success-versus-rams-could-indicate-a-shift-in-scheme/?utm_term=.a1c21c59296b

 

 

 

 

 

 

[S.T.real,lights,out]

U dont trade young talent for old RBs. Recipe for disaster. 

 

I think at some point we need to let Thompson take a shot at being the lead guy. 

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

On 9/19/2017 at 4:38 PM, ILikeBilly said:

Next man up.  Brown, Perine, and CT.  No need to pick someone new up.  Brown knows our system and is in house.  Give it a couple weeks.  Fat Rob will be back after the bye.  Next man up!!!

 

If Brown gets the start for a couple weeks, Kelley not getting that job back. Tellin you that right now. And I'm tired of people making these sarcastic PS comments about Brown. Nobody saying he's a Top 5 RB in the league, Im just saying he's better than Kelley. Kelley sucks. And the good game he had against the Rams before his injury doesnt change that for me.

 

I want/need to see a Brown & Perine 1-2 punch for a full game. 

[Riggo'sRangers]

We really need to look at drafting an elite running back, like next year.  We NEED that.  It would be a major upgrade.  I appreciate what we have but, no matter how you slice it, Kelley, Brown, Perine, insert name, are not big time.  It would affect & change our team significantly.  We have essentially ignored it beyond Portis.  I want a killer back that strikes fear,  I hope we devote proper time and diligence to find one, soon.  Btw, Olines love to run block as you become the aggressor. It really & truly matters.     

[Bonez3]

RB problem solved if we draft Saquon Barkley this year. This kid is special... My #1 hope with a bullet

[Darth Tater]

13 hours ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

We really need to look at drafting an elite running back, like next year.  We NEED that.  It would be a major upgrade.  I appreciate what we have but, no matter how you slice it, Kelley, Brown, Perine, insert name, are not big time.  It would affect & change our team significantly.  We have essentially ignored it beyond Portis.  I want a killer back that strikes fear,  I hope we devote proper time and diligence to find one, soon.  Btw, Olines love to run block as you become the aggressor. It really & truly matters.     

Cannot agree. Larry Brown, round 8. Mike Thomas, round 5. Earnest Byner, round 10. Terry Allen, round 9. Stephen Davis, round 4. Alfred Morris, round 6. Betts was one pick AFTER Portis. Portis and Riggins are our only top backs that over my lifetime, we ever invested heavily in. Ever hear of Ray McDonald? He's the last RB we took in the first round.  Beathard took a guy in round 2 named Richard Williams who never played for us. Reggie Brooks? Had one good year. There are many first and second round running backs that either were busts or were just mediocre backs. While most mid to late round running backs mostly never really played or were JAGS, several  were, at least for a period, the one of the best backs of their era (our own Almo and Brown, Curtis Martin, Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson). Ever hear of Priest Holmes?  UDFA out of Texas who was one of the top backs from 2001 to 2003?

 

If Matt Jones did not have a ball security problem, he goes over 1100 yards last year. Had Kelly been the lead dog from the beginning, he'd probabably have gone for over a 1000 last year. While Rob Kelly is hurt, he still could very well end up with a 1000+.  Perine is just a rookie.  Evidence seems to suggest that one of these two will prove to be more than serviceable over the next few years or we may even find another late round gem. We have other more pressing issues.

[Conn]

15 hours ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

We really need to look at drafting an elite running back, like next year.  We NEED that.  It would be a major upgrade.  I appreciate what we have but, no matter how you slice it, Kelley, Brown, Perine, insert name, are not big time.  It would affect & change our team significantly.  We have essentially ignored it beyond Portis.  I want a killer back that strikes fear,  I hope we devote proper time and diligence to find one, soon.  Btw, Olines love to run block as you become the aggressor. It really & truly matters.     

 

I truly believe we would have drafted Dalvin Cook if he fell to us this year in the 2nd.

[RandyHolt]

It sounds like Kelley is not going to play.  A big surprise after practicing all week. 

 

I thought he would tough it out to try to stave off others gunning for his job. Use the famed Flak jacket and tough it out.

 

Enter Sandman errr Samaje Perine.  I do not expect CT's workload to change. I think Jay even alluded to it, which means we can expect Mack Brown to get some touches.

[XxSpearheadxX]

48 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I truly believe we would have drafted Dalvin Cook if he fell to us this year in the 2nd.

Gruden really seemed to like Cook 

[DC Lumber Co.]

16 hours ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

We really need to look at drafting an elite running back, like next year.  We NEED that.  It would be a major upgrade.  I appreciate what we have but, no matter how you slice it, Kelley, Brown, Perine, insert name, are not big time.    

 

Pretty weird to see so many down on our running game/backs after such a dominant performance last week. Our RB by committee is pretty damn good if you ask me. We don't even know what we have in Perine yet (who I'm extremely high on) and people already want to draft a new guy.

 

Quote

 

I truly believe we would have drafted Dalvin Cook if he fell to us this year in the 2nd.

 

Would have been a huge mistake to take him over Ryan Anderson. Arguably equal in talent/potential and Anderson will almost certainly have a much longer career. Better backs were taken later than Cook, and Kareem Hunt is proving it again this year that you simply dont draft RBs that high. Draft round correlates to success at the RB position the least out of any other position, its simply unnecessary.

 

You continue to do exactly what the Skins are doing. Running back by committee with a new young back added to the competition every so often in rounds 3 or later if a guy you like is there. Eventually you will hit on one that outplays his draft round like Hunt, and we just proved last week that you can be more than competent at the position in the meantime by having a solid stable and riding the hot hand.

 

Itll be interesting to see if Perine will shoulder the load in Fat Rob's absence or if he will split carries with Mack. I hope Perine gets the chance because I think he has a monster coming out party against the Raiders if so, and will run away with the starting job.

[Darrell Green Fan]

20 hours ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

We really need to look at drafting an elite running back, like next year.  We NEED that.  It would be a major upgrade.  I appreciate what we have but, no matter how you slice it, Kelley, Brown, Perine, insert name, are not big time.  It would affect & change our team significantly.  We have essentially ignored it beyond Portis.  I want a killer back that strikes fear,  I hope we devote proper time and diligence to find one, soon.  Btw, Olines love to run block as you become the aggressor. It really & truly matters.     

 

I totally agree with you.  I was really thinking Perine could be that player but it looked clear to me that they are all just guys.

[TheShredder]

Problem with every down backs in this day and age is that they don't last long enough to be worth it.  The 1-2 punch is good, but having a 1-2-3 like we have now is optimum. They had the top rusher for a bit in Morris but that wasn't enough to change the game. You've got to have diverse combinations and depth. Taking a talented RB high in the draft is fine, but you'll be sacrificing somewhere else.  Look at the Super Bowl winners for the winning formula. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Super Bowl winning teams all had backs better than we have had.  Even Alf, as much as we all loved him, could not land a starting job when he went on the open market. If you really look at the RBs around the league who are getting regular carries Morris was below average, what we have now has to be near the bottom.  It's just not that hard to find a good RB, you don't necessarily need to spend a top 15 pick to get one.  

 

But they clearly need a back who can move the chains and break the occasional big play.  I don't see Chris Thomas being able to move the chains, he drops instantly on first contact.

[RandyHolt]

I hope Jay tries to utilize Perine in the passing game today.   You know he will get the requisite runs. Just a few catches to keep defenses guessing, but also to see what he is made of, and learn how an all down back type can help our offense. Our alternative now is limited, for its CT running it but even defenses know Jay doesn't want that but a few times a game.

 

Perine is an animal. He seems to do everything fairly well. I am psyched to see him featured tonight.

[Darth Tater]

5 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Super Bowl winning teams all had backs better than we have had.  Even Alf, as much as we all loved him, could not land a starting job when he went on the open market. If you really look at the RBs around the league who are getting regular carries Morris was below average, what we have now has to be near the bottom.  It's just not that hard to find a good RB, you don't necessarily need to spend a top 15 pick to get one.  

 

But they clearly need a back who can move the chains and break the occasional big play.  I don't see Chris Thomas being able to move the chains, he drops instantly on first contact.

Did they? Almo couldn't land a starting job when he left us for reasons other than he was not once one of the best RBs in the NFL. Age and wear were major factors.  In 2012, it was not due to Almo being an inferior RB that hurt us but the fact that our defense sucked.  If our defense had been about average, we'd have won about 12 games and arguably a healthy RG3. A better offensive line, everybody likely would have looked much better. If our defense was as good as SFOs that season. we probably win the SB. In 2013, just an average defense would have been able to get us in the playoffs. 2014 we were missing a lot more than at RB.  In 2015, our running woes were as much a product of missing depth on the offensive line than an issue at running back.  Long runs by a running back are as much about the defense making mistakes and good downfield blocking as the running back. Good execution by everybody on the offense, having multiple threats and a quality defense are as much or more responsible for the establishment of a quality rushing attack.

 

By the way, the Redskins have backs who break occasional big plays, we do it more often than our great teams. In 1972, we had only one run go for more than 30 yards. Our longest rush by a running back in 1982 was 40 yards. In 1983, we only had two runs that got more than 40. In 1987, not a single Redskins running back had a +30 yard run. 1991 was the only SB year we had a monster run (+50) and then only once.  Last season, we had 3. In Byner's best year as a 'Skin, his longest run was just 22 yards

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

Did they? Almo couldn't land a starting job when he left us for reasons other than he was not once one of the best RBs in the NFL. Age and wear were major factors.  In 2012, it was not due to Almo being an inferior RB that hurt us but the fact that our defense sucked.  If our defense had been about average, we'd have won about 12 games and arguably a healthy RG3. A better offensive line, everybody likely would have looked much better. If our defense was as good as SFOs that season. we probably win the SB. In 2013, just an average defense would have been able to get us in the playoffs. 2014 we were missing a lot more than at RB.  In 2015, our running woes were as much a product of missing depth on the offensive line than an issue at running back.  Long runs by a running back are as much about the defense making mistakes and good downfield blocking as the running back. Good execution by everybody on the offense, having multiple threats and a quality defense are as much or more responsible for the establishment of a quality rushing attack.

 

By the way, the Redskins have backs who break occasional big plays, we do it more often than our great teams. In 1972, we had only one run go for more than 30 yards. Our longest rush by a running back in 1982 was 40 yards. In 1983, we only had two runs that got more than 40. In 1987, not a single Redskins running back had a +30 yard run. 1991 was the only SB year we had a monster run (+50) and then only once.  Last season, we had 3. In Byner's best year as a 'Skin, his longest run was just 22 yards

 

You make some solid points and a few I have to disagree with.  Alf was a perfect fit for the zone read offense but once he left that offense he wasn't the same player.  When he left Washington he was 27 and had played 4 seasons.  I just don't see him as old and worn out at 27 after 1,000 carries and 50 receptions.

 

As for our backs vs those of the SB years even though they didn't break long ones I don't think you are prepared to argue that any of our running backs are better than Larry Brown, John Riggins or Ernest Byner.  That was my claim, our RBs aren't as good as those on those Super Bowl teams or most every other Super Bowl team for that matter.

[skinfan2k]

schefter already said kelly isnt playing

[NickyJ]

I just want to remind everyone, there's life after Matt Jones. And Keith Marshall.

[TradeTheBeal!]

We need more talent and health at the position immediately.  Time to think about getting "a guy".

[illone]

Skins do NOT need to invest in a elite RB.  They need to invest in QB, Oline, and continue to develop the players they already have.  

[Nobledictator1278]

I am starting to sour on Perrine...I know its early but he doesn't look explosive to me, Id be interested in giving Brown a shot.  He looked like he was running hard last night.  If Perrine keeps fumbling I believe he is going to be in the dog house.

[OVCChairman]

Lol... 3 games in an people we're writing off Perine?  He's going to grow in this system, give the guy a chance.  He's not Dalvin Cook, Leonard Fournette, or Adrian Peterson... hence the reason he wasnt taken in the 1st round.  His fumble last night was a LBs helmet making contact with his hand, potentially breaking it.  That was a football play... it will happen.  IIRC he had a bad fumble in the preseason, but other then that, do you see some sort of a trend?  I liked what I saw from Perine last week and a bit this week.  Some runs could have been extended, but I also saw him get blown up behind the line and push the pile for a 2 yard gain.  I'd give the kid a chance to keep developing before we write him off as a miss. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

Brown will now have his chance, Perine's hand is messed up, doubt he plays this week. Its also why he fumbled. 

[justice98]

4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Lol... 3 games in an people we're writing off Perine?  He's going to grow in this system, give the guy a chance.  He's not Dalvin Cook, Leonard Fournette, or Adrian Peterson... hence the reason he wasnt taken in the 1st round.  His fumble last night was a LBs helmet making contact with his hand, potentially breaking it.  That was a football play... it will happen.  IIRC he had a bad fumble in the preseason, but other then that, do you see some sort of a trend?  I liked what I saw from Perine last week and a bit this week.  Some runs could have been extended, but I also saw him get blown up behind the line and push the pile for a 2 yard gain.  I'd give the kid a chance to keep developing before we write him off as a miss. 

 

The trend is he puts it on the ground in limited touches so far, going back to the preseason.

 

I thought he had a middling game.  I need to see more, but he had a chance to claim the gig and he didnt.

[TimmySmith]

2 weeks of commitment to the running game, 2 wins.