The Skins RB situation....

[Jacoby66forHOF]

I just ran across this tweet from Albert Breer responding to a tweet by PFT on Adrian Peterson and it got me thinking about the Skins RB situation:

 

Albert Breer‏Verified account @AlbertBreer

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Albert Breer Retweeted ProFootballTalk

Well, it took all of one game to get here ...

 

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Adrian Peterson: I didn't sign up for nine snaps

 

I don't see Kelley as a long term solution at RB, he lacks burst through the hole and isn't a home run threat, Perine is an unknown, Thompson is not an every down back and Mack Brown is Mack Brown.  So considering Peterson ****ing already about touches would it be wise for the Skins to inquire if one of the Saints RB's are available?  Specifically, Mark Ingram because Peterson is old and a diva and the Saints would be dumb to trade away Kamara at this point.  Also, considering the Saints signed Peterson as a FA and drafted Kamara in the 3rd round then Ingram may jump at the chance to be traded away and start fresh.  

 

Then what about trade compensation if by some miracle the Saints would entertain trading away a RB like Ingram?  How about Doctson and a DB like Kendall Fuller for Ingram?  Cut bait on Doctson and maybe playing closer to home in NO will heal Doctson's bum hammy and with Moreau on the roster Fuller is expendable and NO gets a good slot corner to help bolster their suspect defense.  

 

Just a thought but right now confidence is low for me with the Skins current RB's accept for Thompson.  Adding an experienced Vet RB could go a long way to jump starting the Skins suspect running game.  

 

 

7:01 AM - 15 Sep 2017

[SemperFi Skins]

Doctson is an unknown but the potential is there. Fuller is starting to break out as we speak. The only DB i'm putting out there would be Breeland since he's in a contract year. We just drafted Moreau for his spot most likely... and in all honesty, Ingram wouldn't be at the top of my list. IMO, Perine should be the starter

 

All that being said, it's mainly the Oline's poor play that's contributing to the lack of run success.

[OVCChairman]

When you run a truck into a wall you can't blame the engine for failing.  Went back and looked at plays where there literally was nowhere to go, regardless of who had the ball in their hands.  I don't think anyone outside of Marshawn Lynch, circa 'beast mode' or Jerome Bettis as 'the bus' would truly make a noticeable difference.  

[Jacoby66forHOF]

Can't put it all on the O-line.  Regardless, the O-line is not going to change this year player wise so adding a veteran RB with a skill level higher than Kelley could improve the running game while also providing mentorship for Samaje, IMO.  And the Saints could potentially have an issue with disgruntled RB's.  

 

Breeland straight up for Ingram could work talent wise, not sure how the cap ramifications work, but the Saints could use a vet CB like Breeland for sure.  The Skins aren't winning the SB this year so trading Breeland away and accelerating Moreau's playing time wouldn't hurt anything.  He would struggle initially but he appears to have the stones to be a good NFL CB.  

 

[SemperFi Skins]

I see where you're coming from but if there are no lanes, no running back can have success.

 

IMO, the best bet would be to ask the Bengals what they want for Jeremy Hill... If you're going the trade route. They aren't winning anything this year and they already have Bernard and Mixon.

[justice98]

The starting #1 RB we need isnt on the roster.  It's not Kelley (who would be a perfectly fine backup), and I really doubt it's Perine either.  Going into the season with this RB depth chart was probably never gonna work.

 

Skill-wise, I was hoping Keith Marshall coulda been that, but he couldnt get out of the starting gate and was unimpressive when he did get any time in preseason.

 

So I dont know where they go with this trying to salvage some kind of running attack.

[Jacoby66forHOF]

7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

When you run a truck into a wall you can't blame the engine for failing.  Went back and looked at plays where there literally was nowhere to go, regardless of who had the ball in their hands.  I don't think anyone outside of Marshawn Lynch, circa 'beast mode' or Jerome Bettis as 'the bus' would truly make a noticeable difference.  

 

It depends on the model and options of the truck, IMO.  The truck you speak of is a base model F150 4x4 with a 2.7L V6 and some blind spot issues.  I'm talking about picking up a certified pre-owned F150 Limited Edition 4x4 with the 5.0L V8 and back up camera and collision warning system.   

[TimmySmith]

You simply can't run if you aren't committed to it.  The game was never out of reach, and Gruden abandoned the run.  Norv Turner would have been proud. 

[Jacoby66forHOF]

4 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

I see where you're coming from but if there are no lanes, no running back can have success.

 

IMO, the best bet would be to ask the Bengals what they want for Jeremy Hill... If you're going the trade route. They aren't winning anything this year and they already have Bernard and Mixon.

 

Hill could be an option, but what would the Skins offer for him?  I chose the Saints because they have RB's to spare that the Skins need and the Skins have DB's to spare that the Saints could use.  What does CIN need?  Offensive help?  Doctson?

1 minute ago, TimmySmith said:

You simply can't run if you aren't committed to it.  The game was never out of reach, and Gruden abandoned the run.  Norv Turner would have been proud. 

 

That is a more than fair argument.

[SemperFi Skins]

Cincinnati needs basically everything.... they suck lol

[RandyHolt]

Don't make any trades without first trying Perine and Brown.

 

Apparently Jay planned on getting Perine touches last week. Of course, if he decided to run the ball extensively. Or had a monster lead. But I think since he mentioned it, we get a little Perine on Sunday if Kelley is stuck at 3 yds per again.

 

I don't expect a Peterson to cure all that ails us, but it is just too easy for teams to game plan for Kelley and CT.  Kelley - don't cover him, key on him to run and expect PA. CT, sure he may beat the D a few times running it, but then Jay is wearing out his ace hands back. Yes, defenses know CT is not going to carry a heavy workload but a few games all year.

 

I theorize that with CT in the game, teams run/blitz heavily. He holds up as good as can be expected in pass pro, but it ain't always pretty. Teams see him and see a pass is coming. Telegraphing our offense. If he does run it, he is running into a brick wall on a run blitz and won't be breaking tackles.

 

We need another back to rotate in, an all down back type. I Shirley cannot be the only one that LOVED that circle route to Perine and great catch down the left sideline in preseason. Let's see what the kids got.

[SkinssRvA]

This isn't madden you don't just make trades like that.  Especially not in the second week of the season.  Doctson at this point is a nothing, can't see why anyone would trade for him.  There simply isn't enough tape on him to warrant any value in return.  What type of value does fuller have to get much in return?  Probably not much.  

 

What we need to do is give Perine some touches and involve thompson more.  You saw last night with the Bengals and also on Sunday with NO how running back by committee just doesn't work.  splitting carries on the same drive is such a rhythm mishap that it boggles my mind NFL coaches do it.  Give Perine a couple of series with Thompson playing as 3rd down back.  See if he has what it takes to carry the load, and if he does you ride him.  He's more talented.  If he doesn't have what it takes you get back on the Kelly train and give him the lion's share of carries, at least we know what we have there.  

 

Mark Ingram is not going to drastically change our running output.  I would argue Perine has a very similar skill set and we haven't even tried to use him yet.  Try to nurture Doctson into a starting role because that's what these soft ass kids need these days, a bit of nurturing.  We have to see what we have before we start overreacting and trading people.  

[freakofthesouth]

Pssshhh you know i'm chiming in here.

 

First off, Ingram is a great back but there's no way N.O. would trade him... he's essential to their gameplan.  A Pete was a free agent and no one was calling for weeks before the Saints got him just before the draft.  Then they traded up for Kamara, and the rest is just playing itself out.  For sure not trading Doctson lol.

 

That said, lots to be said for the rookie RBs from week 1- Fournette and Cook are already two of the best RBs in the league (fantasy RB 2s with 1 upside), Kamara is already unseating A Pete, and Cincinnati scratches their heads while Mixon stays on the sidelines.  Tarik Cohen breaks out, Kareem Hunt broke records in Foxboro and Gruden gives NO snaps to Perine.

 

Fair to say there are line issues, but look around the league- nobody starts the game ripping huge runs, it takes time to open holes and the playcalling has to be there...i think there were 13 runs called last week...? however- there were holes to run through- maybe not every run- but Rob Kelley *did not* burst through them.  He was caught from behind at least once- and another time got popped because he ran too upright.

 

I'm telling everyone here- Perine is our guy. He is right up there in a super dooper strong RB class that is already making waves:

 

Fournette

McCaffrey

Cook

Mixon

Kamara

Perine

Hunt

Cohen

 

Put him in.  Spark the backfield.  I'll be frustrated with the offense until they do this. 

 

Even in Madden, current roster, Perine is a 74- but put him in- and he runs people over and breaks big plays.  He got 3TDs in the game I played last night in LA.  Jus sayin.

[I Love The Skins]

Let the season play out before we start to say i say we have a No.1 RB or not.

[pjfootballer]

I think the other part of the problem is, Jay wanted to bring the Power running game to this team to replace the Zone Blocking System we had in place under Shanahan.  Now I know Jay stated that they still run some of the ZBS, but maybe we should go back to that as our staple, since our linemen and TEs can't get a push.  How about some old fashioned Trap Blocking (a la the 70s Steelers) mixed in to help open holes.  The Power running game has not worked.

[Warhead36]

While the run blocking isn't great, there are times when holes do appear and Kelley doesn't do enough with them. He just doesn't have the burst to hit a hole hard and rip out those 20 yard runs. He'll get 4 or 5 when a good back gets 10+.

 

I'd like to see Perine get some carries. Thompson is our most talented back but doesn't have the build to carry the rock 20 times a game.

[RandyHolt]

2 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

I think the other part of the problem is, Jay wanted to bring the Power running game to this team to replace the Zone Blocking System we had in place under Shanahan.  Now I know Jay stated that they still run some of the ZBS, but maybe we should go back to that as our staple, since our linemen and TEs can't get a push.  How about some old fashioned Trap Blocking (a la the 70s Steelers) mixed in to help open holes.  The Power running game has not worked.

Yep. After a few more games of run failure and Jay will seriously need to re-think what he is trying to do here. And I think consider **** canning Callahan, only problem being Jay will be taking on even more duties since he is basically an OC.

 

I have been saying we look like zone guys trying to run power. It all starts with Trent. Why did Mike take Trent over Okung. Okung who was advertised as a mauler.  Because Trent has elite mobility, THE perfect fit for ZBS. It literally does not get any better than Trent. If we don't use his mobility in our run game, we are not using all the tools in the toolbox. It's ok to say Trent is not a mauler bulldozer type, for he is still elite. Even Lauvao can get outside. It was exactly 2 years ago, that our run game was consistently dominating, and it stopped when Lauvao got hurt. We have not been the same since.

 

I think Jay used the opportunity to start implementing more power and has never went back. Jay is power, but we don't have any power! 

[TimmySmith]

The greatest RBs in history got their 4.0+ averages on 1-2 big runs a game, while working the ball 15-20 times at 2-3 yards a clip.  

 

In Barry Sanders greatest year 1997, 2053 yards

He had: 

76, 0 or negative runs

36, 1 yard runs

45, 2 yard runs

33, 3 yard runs 

 

Around 40% of his runs went for 4 yards or more.

 

Commitment to the run is 25-30 attempts a game.  13 is pathetic.

[carex]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

When you run a truck into a wall you can't blame the engine for failing.  Went back and looked at plays where there literally was nowhere to go, regardless of who had the ball in their hands.  I don't think anyone outside of Marshawn Lynch, circa 'beast mode' or Jerome Bettis as 'the bus' would truly make a noticeable difference.  

 

are you referring to the Skins or the Saints.  Cause Kelley got four + on most of his carries

[pjfootballer]

3 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

The greatest RBs in history got their 4.0+ averages on 1-2 big runs a game, while working the ball 15-20 times at 2-3 yards a clip.  

 

In Barry Sanders greatest year 1997, 2053 yards

He had: 

76, 0 or negative runs

36, 1 yard runs

45, 2 yard runs

33, 3 yard runs 

 

Around 40% of his runs went for 4 yards or more.

 

Commitment to the run is 25-30 attempts a game.  13 is pathetic.

 

Yes, we seem to go through this every year with Gruden.  This is rehashed every year because he doesn't commit to the run game.

[OVCChairman]

9 minutes ago, carex said:

 

are you referring to the Skins or the Saints.  Cause Kelley got four + on most of his carries

Skins... Kelley had 10 carries for 30 yards...  He might have popped a few at 4+ but it was the exception, not the rule.  Many plays Kelley just didnt have a hole to hit, and even on a few of those 'better' runs, you see the hole close up so quickly that Kelley is able to bounce it outside and 'salvage' it. 

[Mooka]

1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

You simply can't run if you aren't committed to it.  The game was never out of reach, and Gruden abandoned the run.  Norv Turner would have been proud. 

 

This.

C'mon guys, we ran the ball 13 times.

 

Robb Kelley got 9 runs on first down.  Some with that slooooow motion for the extra blocker. (reminds me of the horrible red zone overload plays last year where we'd ignore Reed or Garcon 1on1 and throw into 40 ppl on the other side) He didn't play great, but he got few chances and line didn't have its best day either. He didn't make any big mistakes. Let's be serious, the second this guy fumbles he's instant dogmeat. 99% of Redskins will be done with him. At least give him a chance. IMO come week say 12, I'll be shocked if Robb's still seeing any significant carries. We'll see how the season plays out. 

 

Even if we're going to be a WC heavy, 3WR+Reed   (4wr)   base-set,  we still have to run the football.  

 

The most simple, basic strategy always holds true in football: you run when they expect a pass and pass when they expect a run. Even on 3rd downs... like that 3rd and 6 juuuuust outside FG range where we coughed up the football. Those are plays where you might boo the coach for being a wuss but also plays that set up maybe a play-action later in the game. And man, our line can't pass block every ****ing play. Scherff had one of his worst games in pass protection, but early in the game you could obviously tell what he can bring in the run game. 

 

Also this:

 

HOW ABOUT OUR BOY CT25?   

 

 

Without Chris Thompson we don't lose 30-17 but get blown out 30-13 and are hardly in the game. He was our only offense and that TD was all on his effort. As far as I;m concerned the Skins have a coaching situation, a QB situation, a line situation, a WR situation, and the RB situation is waaaaaaaaaay down on the list of problems atm. 

[carex]

5 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Skins... Kelley had 10 carries for 30 yards...  He might have popped a few at 4+ but it was the exception, not the rule.  Many plays Kelley just didnt have a hole to hit, and even on a few of those 'better' runs, you see the hole close up so quickly that Kelley is able to bounce it outside and 'salvage' it. 

 

actually no it wasn't.  I checked the play by play.  Kelley had two 6 yard runs, four 4 yard runs, two 2 yard runs and two -1 yard runs

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, carex said:

 

actually no it wasn't.  I checked the play by play.  Kelley had two 6 yard runs, four 4 yard runs, two 2 yard runs and two -1 yard runs

That adds up to 30 bud.  An average of 3 yards a carry... hard to argue that 4+ a carry is rule when it's above the average.  He had 2 carries that exceeded 4 yards, that is HARDLY good enough to be successful as a rush offense. 

[CommanderDOOM]

Brown needs touches badly.