The Skins RB situation....

[NoCalMike]

Something I noticed a lot in the loss to the Eagles when it came to the running game, was that I could clearly see holes/lanes opening as soon as the ball was snapped.  As in clear as day where it was obvious where the RB should go.  The problem is by the time the RB got there the hole usually was filled by a defender for minimal gain.

 

What my untrained eye is yet to be able to critique is if this is an issue with Kelley being too slow to the hole which gives the defenders time to fill it, or if the issue is 2nd level blocking where once the hole initially opens, blockers need to shuffle or re-assign themselves to defenders closing in.

It was so frustrating to see the O-line create these running lane initially, but almost every time they amounted to very little.

[DC Lumber Co.]

17 hours ago, Jacoby66forHOF said:

 

It depends on the model and options of the truck, IMO.  The truck you speak of is a base model F150 4x4 with a 2.7L V6 and some blind spot issues.  I'm talking about picking up a certified pre-owned F150 Limited Edition 4x4 with the 5.0L V8 and back up camera and collision warning system.   

 

Except when realize you played yourself thinking that the top engine choice was a gas guzzling 5 liter v8, and let your old school mentality make you miss out on getting the maximum towing capacity in an f150 by not going with the twin turbo v6 ecoboost.

 

 

I think its an overreaction to think a star RB will fix our problems. And you dont trade a corner for a running back, especially in todays NFL.

 

We dont even know what we have in Perine yet, he easily could be a similar or better talent than ingram. 

 

Id rather see us trade for a serviceable NFL left guard before we go trading for a shiny new toy.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dark Acre]

I'd like to weigh in on "avg. yards per rush".  It's an overrated and nearly useless statistic.  First, it's the "mean" average (total yards/# of carries).  There are also median (midway between lowest and highest, which is even more useless) and mode (most common #) which does have some utility over the long haul.  Second, the problem is that the running game (and football in general) is highly situation-specific.  On 3rd & 1 do you care that if your RB gets the 1 that it'll lower his average?  How about a guy who averages 3.6 YPC but scores 24 TDs, 21 of which are 3yds or less?  That was Riggo in 1983.  Who's griping about his mediocre YPC?  What I care about is what the RB can accomplish within the game plan and set the O up to score.

[thebeermonkey]

This isn't difficult - it's play calling. We telegraph the run all the time so the defense never needs to guess. It's actually the thing I really feel annoyed at with Gruden. 

 

Run the bloody ball ball and keep running it.

[Jacoby66forHOF]

17 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Except when realize you played yourself thinking that the top engine choice was a gas guzzling 5 liter v8, and let your old school mentality make you miss out on getting the maximum towing capacity in an f150 by not going with the twin turbo v6 ecoboost.

 

 

Nothing old school about preferring a proven, strong, V8 in a F150.  Ecoboost engines are ****, they are new technology and sustainable to the mechanical version off a pulled hamstring.  See Doctson.   

[BTBIRD 227]

On 9/15/2017 at 9:43 AM, TimmySmith said:

You simply can't run if you aren't committed to it.  The game was never out of reach, and Gruden abandoned the run.  Norv Turner would have been proud. 

Timmy Smith,  you hit the nail right on the head. I ****ed about Cousins and his inadequacy in another thread. Gruden shares the blame on the offensive woes, always giving up on the running game, Gruden has admitted more than once he gives up on the run to early.

The mindset of the offense,and Gruden is, running the ball is secondary . Maybe just maybe if the running game became more of a major component of the Skins

offense, Kirk may find some success as a passer. The answer to the equation , is a balanced offense. Hail

 

[DC Lumber Co.]

15 hours ago, Jacoby66forHOF said:

 

Nothing old school about preferring a proven, strong, V8 in a F150.  Ecoboost engines are ****, they are new technology and sustainable to the mechanical version off a pulled hamstring.  See Doctson.   

 

Ecoboost is new technology? Its simply fords terminology for a turbo, not really anything cutting edge, but ok.

 

Thinking a naturally aspirated engine can hold a candle to forced induction absolutely is old school. They are better in every way.

[Jacoby66forHOF]

3 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Ecoboost is new technology? Its simply fords terminology for a turbo, not really anything cutting edge, but ok.

 

Thinking a naturally aspirated engine can hold a candle to forced induction absolutely is old school. They are better in every way.

 

My Cousin is a shop mechanic (and retired rear tire changer) for Roush Racing.  He just picked up a '17 F150 with a V8.  I asked him why not an ecoboost, he said it was a POS.  I believe him considering he works with Ford engine reps on a regular basis.  

[DC Lumber Co.]

2 minutes ago, Jacoby66forHOF said:

 

My Cousin is a shop mechanic (and retired rear tire changer) for Roush Racing.  He just picked up a '17 F150 with a V8.  I asked him why not an ecoboost, he said it was a POS.  I believe him considering he works with Ford engine reps on a regular basis.  

 

A mechanic is no different from anyone else that can have ignorant or wrong bias towards a product or engine. Not only have turbo engines been king on the racetracks for years, the benefits are plentiful for street applications as well. 

 

I worked for Ford as well, the shop was split down the middle. Most of the v8 guys were unsurprisingly stubborn older guys. But I get it, some guys just need their tim the toolman taylor-esque v8 exhaust note.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Why tha F are we talking engines?  Running game looking great against the Rams D thus far.  

[Jacoby66forHOF]

1 hour ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

A mechanic is no different from anyone else that can have ignorant or wrong bias towards a product or engine. Not only have turbo engines been king on the racetracks for years, the benefits are plentiful for street applications as well. 

 

I worked for Ford as well, the shop was split down the middle. Most of the v8 guys were unsurprisingly stubborn older guys. But I get it, some guys just need their tim the toolman taylor-esque v8 exhaust note.

 

Enjoy your turbos and enjoy the rest of the Skins game.  

[RandyHolt]

I absolutely love the OL in space. I was clamoring for it using more zone concepts, less power between the tackles.  We saw the counter trey for sure and likely some Mike Zone stuff. I think there was a drop off when Perine went in because he hadn't practiced much of the Gibbs plays this past week.

 

Enter Samaje Perine.

 

We ran sideline to the other. Suddenly, running CT a scat up the gut is a lot easier. I loved the run game play calling today.

[CommanderDOOM]

See what we can do when we commit to the run

[pjfootballer]

46 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I absolutely love the OL in space. I was clamoring for it using more zone concepts, less power between the tackles.  We saw the counter trey for sure and likely some Mike Zone stuff. I think there was a drop off when Perine went in because he hadn't practiced much the Gibbs plays this past week.

 

Enter Samaje Perine.

 

We ran sideline to the other. Suddenly, running CT a scat up the gut is a lot easier. I loved the run game play calling today.

 

Yep. Just like you and I said.

 

Well what  do you know Jay? Mix it up and commit to the run and you give yourself a better chance to win. Other then those two stupid fade passes, you called a balanced game.

[Warhead36]

The run play design was better today. I wonder if Gruden took more of that responsibility. Callahan was supposed to be in charge of designing the run scheme but I'd bet Gruden is a much more creative play designer.

[RandyHolt]

@pjfootballerha i was trying to remember who it was wrt great minds! 

 

When was the last time Jay ran the counter trey more than once in a game?  To be honest, I don't even recall the last time I saw it called, period. I think we ran it 5 or more times today. Spielman was all over it and quickly pointed it out. I went back on the DVR and saw the signature first step of the back away from the play side to buy the 2 pulling OL time.

 

I am surprised more are not talking about the clear differences we saw in his run play calling today, and overall game plan. He really threw a curve ball at Wade and McVay, and today's play calling and run game successes re-affirms to me that our OL was born to run.  Hell that double whammy block downfield from Lauvao on the TD was perhaps my fav of the year so far. He is excellent in space at speed. Trent too. Bradon and Moses looked imposing both pulling at the same time.

 

Jay gets the game ball today. Sorry OL, Mason, Medics, Kelley... it was all about game planning today.

[sebestian]

Kendal Fuller is not going anywhere. 

[skinzplay]

Excellent game planning, you're right about that @RandyHolt. Very impressed with the way Gruden attacked Wade's defense.

[Jacoby66forHOF]

I have to say when I saw 75 and 76 pull at the same time I got a ******.

[abdcskins]

Kelley looked faster today, I'm sure that was just an illusion.  When he puts his foot into the ground he makes strong cuts.  I hope he is okay, not sure what the prognosis is for a fractured rib.  Run blocking was so much better this game, o-line was pushing those guys back.  Chris Thompson is one of the best backup running backs in the league much less a 3rd down back. 

[TheShredder]

5 hours ago, abdcskins said:

Kelley looked faster today, I'm sure that was just an illusion.  When he puts his foot into the ground he makes strong cuts.  I hope he is okay, not sure what the prognosis is for a fractured rib.  Run blocking was so much better this game, o-line was pushing those guys back.  Chris Thompson is one of the best backup running backs in the league much less a 3rd down back. 

 

Fractured rib for a RB is very painful.  Looking at 4-6 weeks. 

The way he was hold self splinting with both hands holding the bottom of his jersey while he went back for X-rays tells a lot. He didn't want to turn side to side out of pain.  He's hurting  at the posterior chest wall.  Could include the sternum. 

 

Next man up. 

[TimmySmith]

Everything about the running game was impressive yesterday.  I particularly point to the final drive.  The Rams defense was cramping,  Perine had 7 rushes for 39 yards on that drive when you know Gruden was itching to pass the ball. Gruden remained cool and the Skins won. 

 

[crabbypatty]

Some more creative run play calling was a good thing, glad to see they actually wanted to pummel someone into submission. I heard on the radio this morning that Trent went to the coaches and told them something to the effect of "we need to run more, and do this right" and they came out firing in the run game. Of course running old school concepts like counter trey didn't hurt. My eyes about popped out of my head when I saw the RT/RG pulling across the formation to wham as the lead blockers.. that is most definitely NOT a Gruden/Callahan "power" run play. The players are impressive on the move. Hopefully this wasn't a one game mirage that we never see again. I'd like to see it as a staple going forward.

 

They still give run away too much, every time crowder and reed go out it's an obvious run, I'd like to see that change but overall happy with the effort.

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 9/16/2017 at 6:19 PM, thebeermonkey said:

This isn't difficult - it's play calling. We telegraph the run all the time so the defense never needs to guess. It's actually the thing I really feel annoyed at with Gruden. 

 

Run the bloody ball ball and keep running it.

 

I need a pad and paper to keep score  because I am convention I know when they will run the ball before the snap the vast majority of times.  Jay definitely has tendencies.

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 9/16/2017 at 2:30 AM, NoCalMike said:

Something I noticed a lot in the loss to the Eagles when it came to the running game, was that I could clearly see holes/lanes opening as soon as the ball was snapped.  As in clear as day where it was obvious where the RB should go.  The problem is by the time the RB got there the hole usually was filled by a defender for minimal gain.

 

What my untrained eye is yet to be able to critique is if this is an issue with Kelley being too slow to the hole which gives the defenders time to fill it, or if the issue is 2nd level blocking where once the hole initially opens, blockers need to shuffle or re-assign themselves to defenders closing in.

It was so frustrating to see the O-line create these running lane initially, but almost every time they amounted to very little.

 

There were a few times yesterday where I couldn't understand why Kelley and Perine didn't bounce it outside around the corner or hit another hole.  I can't tell what they see, obviously, but me and my buddy thought that certain running lanes were obvious.