Common Kirk....I just don't know....

[clskinsfan]

13 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

You are never going to get the Kirk cultists to admit he ever plays poorly.   It is not even worth your time to try to have a balanced discussion about Kirk Cousin's. He sucked for the first 58 minutes.   He over threw and he under threw. He should have taken off like Wilson when the pocket collapsed. He didn't even throw the ball away when he should have; pocket awareness was almost rookie like. It was like watching a deer in the headlights for most of the game.   

 

BUT the he came through at the end of the game and he deserves props for that.  Thank you Kirk for a BIG time score.  Best drive of the year.  Keeps the season alive.

 

 And more then that he will trust Doctson.  He will trust Sprinkle. We have literally gone from the receiving corpse to the receiving corps in one drive.  And we won the game...HTTR!!!!  This is a huge win and has revitalized my belief in this team.  Our Defense was kick ass and won the game for us.

 

I am as big a Kirk basher as there is on this site. And what he did IN SEATTLE on the final drive of the game was incredible. He deserves all the props in the world for that drive. And I hope that is what we will see from Cousins for the next decade as a Redskin. But I hope it is at a somewhat affordable price

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 hour ago, grego said:

 

i'm not caught up on the point- you made the claim that their line has, for years, been the same caliber as ours yesterday, which i think is a fairly outrageous claim. facts and numbers have been brought up which seem to contradict that claim, as well information that contradicts your claim that they've neglected the line. 

 

you appear set on believing that their line has been awful for years despite information to the contrary, and you havent demonstrated how they have been awful. there are objective measurements for these things, but you havent given any of them. it just seems to be your opinion. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-line-units-heading-into-the-2017-season

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/2013-offensive-line-rankings

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-this-season

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-this-season

 

dating back to 2013, their highest rank at O Line was 19th, which was 2014.

 

Ranked dead last in 2016 and heading into 2017. 30th in 2015. 27 in their SB year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

For me, the debate about keeping Cousins was over a long time ago.  And after yesterday, if you're still not convinced, you never will be.  

 

Agreed.  I love for Kirk to stay and them to go away or STFU already.  Your guy sucked and Kirk is really good, accept it or find another team.

[heyholetsgogrant]

I guess, I'll never be convinced hes worth 28-30 Million +.  If Seattle makes just one of those 3 missed field goals we wouldn't be talking how gritty Kirk is, we would be talking about 2 fumbles and 3 + quarters of mediocre play. 

 

We have the Saints and Vikings coming up, but that should be the end of a tough stretch.  I think we still have a shot at making the playoffs being how bad the league is.

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Just now, Veryoldschool said:

 

Agreed.  I love for Kirk to stay and them to go away or STFU already.  Your guy sucked and Kirk is really good, accept it or find another team.

I think it’s very unfair to assume ppl that are not all in on Kirk are just RG3 stans.

 

 I was one of very few ppl championing Kirk here in 2014 and i defended him like crazy in 2015. 

 

 

[fordranger76]

Still not a Kirk fan. Doctson and the D won that game for us. MY OPINION. Heck I think Gruden did more than Kirk did. Hopefully I do not get a snarky response to it. I still want Kirk to be the guy but for me he still doesn't do it. *backs away from thread slowly*

[RonBurgandy]

Kirk is good, not great. This is where the divide is amongst us fans. Just because he won us the game (Doctson actually did) doesn't mean he deserves 24 mil a year. Imagine if we used that money to keep adding depth to our D, as well as acquiring a game changing WR to pair with Doctson.

Our D is showing great strides this year! I'm so excited to see what we can do going forward with this squad. Giving Kirk all that money will be the dumbest thing we can do. The Defense won that game for Krik, not the other way around.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I think it’s very unfair to assume ppl that are not all in on Kirk are just RG3 stans.

 

 I was one of very few ppl championing Kirk here in 2014 and i defended him like crazy in 2015. 

 

 

That's really not what this is about at all.  There is a difference between not being all in on Kirk and being relentless with the nitpicking and criticism of Kirk.  It leaks it's way into nearly every thread with some folks.

 

My point is that there is absolutely a link to many of Kirk's harshest critics here and where they stood on the prior quarterback.  A lot of the roaches that pop up every now and again like last night and even some of our very active posters fall into this category.  It's interesting to see the level of dissection of nearly every snap taken by Kirk vs. the excuses that were commonly passed off by the same people for the prior quarterback.  My profile may say that I've only been here since 2014, but I used to go by RonBurgundy&Gold and got locked out of the account and had to start a new one.

 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, sebestian said:

Bottom line. 

 

That throw to Doctson was a terrible throw.  Doctson made an unbelievable catch.  It looks good because we won the game. If Doctson does not make that catch, we could still win, but if we lose that was another opportunity that was not executed. 

 

 

Terrible? Nope. In a t-shirt and shorts on a nice warm day when your feeling great with nothing on the line MAYBE it was an average throw - tad long but not bad, gave my man a chance. With a game on the line in cold wintery weather, with a bad head cold and with not one but TWO Seattle defensive lineman beating their man right off the snap and right in your face that was CLUTCH.

 

I'm not a Kirk homer either.

[PortisBetts]

I take back anything bad I said about Kirk in the game day thread. He came out and won the game on the last drive. That's all I can ask for. I dont care what happened the rest of the 59 minutes. He made the throws when we needed them. That is what I want to see out of my qb. Win games when the game is on the line. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, RonBurgandy said:

Kirk is good, not great. This is where the divide is amongst us fans. Just because he won us the game (Doctson actually did) doesn't mean he deserves 24 mil a year. Imagine if we used that money to keep adding depth to our D, as well as acquiring a game changing WR to pair with Doctson.

Our D is showing great strides this year! I'm so excited to see what we can do going forward with this squad. Giving Kirk all that money will be the dumbest thing we can do. The Defense won that game for Krik, not the other way around.

I'm not going to kill you for this, for fear of 'trying to act like the smartest guy in the room'.

 

With that said, what good is a game changing WR and defense going to do without a QB?

 

I've got the answer, it's: Get embarrassed by the Eagles yesterday.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 minute ago, PortisBetts said:

I take back anything bad I said about Kirk in the game day thread. He came out and won the game on the last drive. That's all I can ask for. I dont care what happened the rest of the 59 minutes. He made the throws when we needed them. That is what I want to see out of my qb. Win games when the game is on the line. 

Exactly how i feel 

[RonBurgandy]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not going to kill you for this, for fear of 'trying to act like the smartest guy in the room'.

 

With that said, what good is a game changing WR and defense going to do without a QB?

 

I've got the answer, it's: Get embarrassed by the Eagles yesterday.

I don't think you understand my perspective. I think Kirk is good, not $25 mil dollars good. The person I do think that is worth $25 mil a year was playing QB for the Seahawks. I think we're so desperate for success and scared of a reality without Kirk that it is hard to see the bigger picture.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not going to kill you for this, for fear of 'trying to act like the smartest guy in the room'.

 

With that said, what good is a game changing WR and defense going to do without a QB?

 

I've got the answer, it's: Get embarrassed by the Eagles yesterday.

 

Though they aren't having their best year defensively this season (injuries) -- the Texans isn't a bad example.  They were the talk of the town until their QB got hurt -- yesterday they lost to the lowly Colts.   

 

I live in Florida and read the papers here on and off.  The Tampa papers are running articles now about Winston might not be the guy.  They've been through this narrative before with Josh Freeman -- he looked like he might be the guy but ultimately it didn't play out.  That narrative is more the norm than the exception when it comes to the QB hunt conversation.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Tip of the cap to Kirk.  Showed a lot of grit yesterday and I'm very happy for him.

 

He's worth every penny of 17-20 mil a year and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, RonBurgandy said:

I don't think you understand my perspective. I think Kirk is good, not $25 mil dollars good. The person I do think that is worth $25 mil a year was playing QB for the Seahawks. I think we're so desperate for success and scared of a reality without Kirk that it is hard to see the bigger picture.

You're probably not wrong but it doesn't change reality. It's not like you can just decide what he's worth and pay him that. More importantly, you also cannot just generate a buyer's market for QBs where you can select the perfect guy for your cost point. 

 

So, the question I'd have if we don't pay Cousins is this: Who do we pay? How much do we pay him? And how do we ensure we don't take a gigantic step backwards at the position to save $10M per season?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, RonBurgandy said:

I don't think you understand my perspective. I think Kirk is good, not $25 mil dollars good. The person I do think that is worth $25 mil a year was playing QB for the Seahawks. I think we're so desperate for success and scared of a reality without Kirk that it is hard to see the bigger picture.

I get that Wilson looks awesome scrambling, playing backyard football and has made some awesome plays over the course of his career like that.  But he really wasn't good at all yesterday to the extent that it surprised me.  I totally expected his backyard football to look real good against our defense.

 

While I don't discount that we are desperate for success, we've been trying to see the bigger picture only for reality to be absolutely dreadful for the majority of the past two decades. 

[rick7423]

Just now, RonBurgandy said:

I don't think you understand my perspective. I think Kirk is good, not $25 mil dollars good. The person I do think that is worth $25 mil a year was playing QB for the Seahawks. I think we're so desperate for success and scared of a reality without Kirk that it is hard to see the bigger picture.

 

IMHO, the reality is not having a good QB. In this league, to have a top 10 QB (KC is top 10), it will cost you to keep him. There are NO other options at the moment.

 

Let our front office get the contract done, get over the "I don't think he's worth paying that much" crap. It will not kill the team cap. I can easily argue that the franchise tag does so much more damage than paying him a LTD of substance.

[Llevron]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Unfortunately, you are making this about you and me

 

54 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Dude, how is what you're doing any better than what I did that Kdawg called me out for?  It's not.

 

I mean you asked. I provided examples. If you didnt want know you shouldn't have asked. 

 

24 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Personally, I therefore have no problem with someone pointing out that at least the poster (reliant on the eye test) admits they aren't a football expert.  I also respect when people point out that something is just their opinion.  Sure, we're all just offering opinions (excepting the occasional posts purely relating facts or tweets), but oftentimes they are portrayed as fact - 'Kirk is a top 5 qb', 'Kirk isn't worth 20 mil', etc.  So much so that I'm surprised that I haven't caught flak for incessantly using terms like "I think"/"I believe"/"It seems like", etc. 

 

Its appreciated when folks post more like this. Its much more inviting than the 'I watch more football than you' type for sure. It would be silly of me, not knowing any of you, to assume I know more than you based off of what we say here. There are lots of coaches on this site and we all know people who are way too good at something that they just have fun playing around with. I guarantee we have some football savants roaming these boards that dont talk much. Thats how it works. 

 

24 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

Sidenote:  the arguments about salary cap % is a very different animal.  Posts by @KDawgare a great example.  They're not a referendum about Kirk's play as much as the ability to field a competitive team around him.  

 

This is my only problem with Kirk. I dont think he is good enough for us to field a team around him that lacks talent and succeed. And I dont trust that our FO is good enough to make up for that. In essence it is less about Kirk than it is the rest of the team but it becomes a Kirk problem when its his paycheck that would be exasperating the issue. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, RonBurgandy said:

I don't think you understand my perspective. I think Kirk is good, not $25 mil dollars good. The person I do think that is worth $25 mil a year was playing QB for the Seahawks. I think we're so desperate for success and scared of a reality without Kirk that it is hard to see the bigger picture.

 

I disagree with the point.  But the thing is, I've not really seen the big picture spelled out in a compelling way.  What is the big picture with Kirk gone and what makes it compelling?  

 

Different strokes for different folks -- and disagreement is part of what makes a board like this at times entertaining.   The thing is for me is I've not really seen anyone paint the future of a Kirk free team that sounds exciting and something to get behind and get jazzed about.   I am just wondering what that narrative is.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get that Wilson looks awesome scrambling, playing backyard football and has made some awesome plays over the course of his career like that.  But he really wasn't good at all yesterday to the extent that it surprised me.  I totally expected his backyard football to look real good against our defense.

 

While I don't discount that we are desperate for success, we've been trying to see the bigger picture only for reality to be absolutely dreadful for the majority of the past two decades. 

I was AMAZED at how bad that offense looked yesterday... tip of the cap to our defense there.  Half way through the 3rd quarter, you could see Wilson come to grips with the fact that the game was on his shoulders, and he started running off script.  He lost faith in everyone around him and he tried to take it over.  

[Mr. Sinister]

I think in light of such an awesome win, a ceasefire would be a good idea, in order to observe the festivities for a week, with the usual bloodshed and pestilence resuming next Monday

[RonBurgandy]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get that Wilson looks awesome scrambling, playing backyard football and has made some awesome plays over the course of his career like that.  But he really wasn't good at all yesterday to the extent that it surprised me.  I totally expected his backyard football to look real good against our defense.

 

While I don't discount that we are desperate for success, we've been trying to see the bigger picture only for reality to be absolutely dreadful for the majority of the past two decades. 

I'd prefer to think that he played well, but the lack of run game forged him into their primary running option. Also a nod to our defense for making him look bad. He did enough to win that game, our defense was too much to handle.

[SWFLSkins]

25 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I think it’s very unfair to assume ppl that are not all in on Kirk are just RG3 stans.

 

 I was one of very few ppl championing Kirk here in 2014 and i defended him like crazy in 2015. 

 

 

 

It's not about wanting Kirk to stay, it's how much $$$$ you want him to stay. 

[Llevron]

 

Hard to call that throw terrible if it was caught and got us to the 1. I mean come on.