Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I'm sorry, but the evidence is just clear.  Even the mean/median of the Democratic electorate is not as left as Warren and Sanders.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Then why do we keep seeing poll after poll from democrates as a whole supporting universal healthcare?  Probably because they dont like the plan presented to do it versus the concept? Same thing with Green New Deal versus prioritizing climate change that wasnt even discussed in the last debate? Who decided not to even have climate change as a topic in the last debate anyway?

[PeterMP]

21 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Then why do we keep seeing poll after poll from democrates as a whole supporting universal healthcare?  Probably because they dont like the plan presented to do it versus the concept? Same thing with Green New Deal versus prioritizing climate change that wasnt even discussed in the last debate? Who decided not to even have climate change as a topic in the last debate anyway?

 

1.  That's one issue.

 

2.  Even on that one issue, you can have universal healthcare and not have a far left plan on universal healthcare.  Only 12% of Democrats favor ONLY that.  There's a small part of the Democratic electorate that is actually ONLY that.  And then of them, I suspect there might be some that think that Bernie's/Warren's plan is still too far left.

 

https://www.kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/kff-health-tracking-poll-february-2020/

 

But even people that are far left on that issue aren't far left on others.  I know people that support Bernie's healthcare plan that aren't for forgiving student debt.  So you lose some voters on other issues.

[skinsmarydu]

48 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Head over to Reddit.  Go to r/politics.  See how reddit likes Bernie.

I'm not even on reddit, I get alerts for one particular cat sub. All of a sudden, I'm getting alerts for everything. 

 

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

Democrats have only controlled both the Presidency and Congress for four years.  Often when they try to make these big sweeping changes, they get voted out, fast.

 

Even a candidate like Sanders or Warren were to win the presidency, if the Republicans maintain control of the Senate, the big changes they wants, aren't happening.

 

And I don't agree Democrats have done nothing when they've been in power.  What about ACA/Obamacare?  As flawed as it was, it has likely paved the way for universal coverage, whatever form it may end up taking.   And a Republican Congress along with a Republican President, was unable to get rid of it.  Seems like a political victory for me.   And what about Obergefell vs. Hodges?  Although decided by the Supreme Court, 4 out of 5 of those justices, appointed by Democratic presidents with Democratic majorities in the Senate.  And the swing vote (Kennedy) probably only happened because Reagan couldn't get Robert Bork, who almost certainly would have voted against it, past a Democratic Senate.

 

Both of those illustrate the uselessness and weakness of the party at the national level.  The push to legalize gay marriage was a bottom up, roots activist-led movement driven by states and localities and largely opposed by the national leadership.  And that conservative justice who was the key swing vote, whose nomination you half-heartedly cite as a political victory for Dems, was a Reagan appointee who spent the rest of his tenure rubber stamping every pro corporate decision that reached the court before handing his seat off to a 50 year old arch conservative.

 

Obamacare is emblematic of the failures of the Democratic party.  It was a half-assed attempt at reforming a breathtakingly corrupt and broken system, conceived of by Republicans, that did little more than forcibly sell expensive, god awful catastrophic illness insurance to poor people and young people in order to fund the care for people with pre-existing conditions.  It did nothing to control costs and make basic healthcare affordable nor broadly improve healthcare and public health.  The fact that Democrats cite passing this lousy compromise legislation as their most significant accomplishment since the 60's shows how weak their leadership and record have been in the generations since the Great Society reforms.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

1.  That's one issue.

 

2.  Even on that one issue, you can have universal healthcare and not have a far left plan on universal healthcare.  Only 12% of Democrats favor ONLY (other insurance is eliminated) a national medicare for all system.

 

https://www.kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/kff-health-tracking-poll-february-2020/

 

But even people that are far left on that issue aren't far left on others.  I know people that support Bernie's healthcare plan that aren't for forgiving student debt.  So you lose some voters on other issues.

 

And that's fair, because I'm trapped between not supporting public option and knowing not allowing private insurance to compete with Medicare is a nonstarter for a lot of people. 

 

But the conversation on forgiving college debt has been framed poorly by Sanders and Warren, raising taxes to pay off loans people owe to them makes no sense.  That's why I'm said Warren announcing she could jus forgive them without raising money via executive order was ever expanded on.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/14/elizabeth-warren-cancel-student-debt-executive-powers-098623

 

I'm sure there's other issues the party is further left on then being framed, but not far enough left to go with some solutions proposed.  My understanding is Green New Deal has a lot folks dont like, but and Biden is trying to hug it and tweak it same time:

 

https://joebiden.com/climate/

[visionary]

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

32 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I can say one thing for sure, it looks like Bernie's unprecedented youth movement didnt go as planned. Less young people being reported voting than in 2016. Im sure there are other factors involved besides just general apathy, but anyone counting on that voter block going forward is kidding themselves. Its really not a thing. 

 

Ya. Stats dont lie.

 

Theres things that can be done to make it easier for folks to vote, like not having it on Tuesday anymore, but that's down the road, the dems need to win this election to implement that bill sitting in house right now to make election day federal holiday.

 

Willing to concede how I feel to what's actually happening.  I'm still disappointed its Biden out of how many candidates ran.

[Larry]

9 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

Sorta JV that they were able to rush the stage by Biden’s secret service, which i assume he gets being a former vice president?

 

I remember hearing that SS protection for former Presidents is one agent, most of the time.  

 

If so, then former Veeps probably get to have the SS's unlisted phone number.  

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Obamacare is emblematic of the failures of the Democratic party.  It was a half-assed attempt at reforming a breathtakingly corrupt and broken system, conceived of by Republicans, that did little more than forcibly sell expensive, god awful catastrophic illness insurance to poor people and young people in order to fund the care for people with pre-existing conditions.  It did nothing to control costs and make basic healthcare affordable nor broadly improve healthcare and public health.  The fact that Democrats cite passing this lousy compromise legislation as their most significant accomplishment since the 60's shows how weak their leadership and record have been in the generations since the Great Society reforms.

 

The ACA was primarily about getting people access to healthcare, and you seem to be forgetting the Medicaid expansion and increase in the age that a child could stay on their parents insurance that came with it.  Lots of people that needed insurance that couldn't have gotten it before now actually have insurance and so have access to healthcare.

 

"Most research demonstrates that Medicaid expansion has improved access to care, utilization of services, the affordability of care, and financial security among the low-income population. Studies show improved self-reported health following expansion and an association between expansion and certain positive health outcomes. A small subset of study findings showed no effects of expansion on certain specific measures within these access-related categories."

 

The vast majority of the literature supports improvement in a number of categories, mostly associated with Medicaid expansion.

 

I'm also not sure that it didn't do things to broadly improve healthcare.  For example, hospital acquired infections appear to be way down.

 

From there, it was about trying some things out to see how they would affect the health care system and improving our knowledge of how the health care system is working.  A lot of the ACA was about improving data collection.  And we have more data now and there are clearly some changes to the ACA that would easily make it better.  At the time, the thought was consolidation would help costs and improve care.  The opposite seems to be happening.  Just doing things to reverse the parts of the ACA that encouraged consolidation would probably result in a law that actually does lower costs and more greatly improves the quality of care.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[PleaseBlitz]

35 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I remember hearing that SS protection for former Presidents is one agent, most of the time.  

 

If so, then former Veeps probably get to have the SS's unlisted phone number.  

This is not true, I worked in a building where Obama has his post-presidency office and know one of the guys on his detail. It’s a lot more than one. But, to your point, I don’t know how it would work for former VPs that are running for President. 

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

You seem to be forgetting the Medicaid expansion and increase in the age that a child could stay on their parents insurance that came with it.  Lots of people that need insurance that couldn't have gotten it before now actually have insurance.

 

I'm also not sure that it didn't do things to broadly improve healthcare.  For example, hospital acquired infections appear to be way down.

 

From there, there are clearly some changes to the ACA that would easily make it better.  At the time, the thought was consolidation would help costs and improve care.  The opposite seems to be happening.  Just doing things to reverse the parts of the ACA that encouraged consolidation would probably result in a law that actually does lower costs and more greatly improves the quality of care.

 

Yeah, my impression is that there are good things that came out of the ACA.  

 

The exchanges may have been a cluster.  Helped along by intentional Republican sabotage.  But some of the less-publicized things seem to have made some positive impact.  (And seem to have survived sabotage attempts, too.)  

 

I can testify from the health care trenches that the focus on preventable conditions like hospital-acquired infections and bed sores has had a profound impact.  

[@DCGoldPants]

Warren hopefully drops out this week. If/when she doesn't endorse Sanders. The Bros are going to lose their minds. "How could she do this? Forget that we attacked her with snake emojis and blamed her for everything."

 

Tom Steyer and Bloomberg should start a self-funded PAC called "Capitalism for Responsible Leadership" and just run ads non-stop everywhere (especially Fox primetime) that shows all the worst clips of Trump and then ask the questions about his bankruptcies, his health/weight, his adultery, draft-dodging, taking taxpayer money for vacations. Just dress it up like a super conservative message. 

 

Don't mention any Dems. Just question Don over and over and over. 

[PleaseBlitz]

SNAKES!!!!!!  

[No Excuses]

Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

SNAKES!!!!!!  

If you go on r/SandersForPresident, you will find out that Elizabeth Warren is not only a snake, but a deep undercover Republican operative who has been working on a multi decade agenda of destroying the progressive movement.

[88Comrade2000]

6 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

Bloomberg hurts Biden far worse than Warren hurts Sanders

Bloomberg was taken out by Warren. That and she has a plan for that, is all she will be remembered for.

 

Mike only did well in early voting. His votes were much lower for the votes cast yesterday.

[Llevron]

47 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Theres things that can be done to make it easier for folks to vote, like not having it on Tuesday anymore, but that's down the road, the dems need to win this election to implement that bill sitting in house right now to make election day federal holiday.

 

Ill take incremental steps if that's all I can get and what Biden can give me. I want huge earth shaking change, but ill take what I can get when I can get it. 

 

47 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Willing to concede how I feel to what's actually happening.  I'm still disappointed its Biden out of how many candidates ran.

 

Yea it sucks. Cant do anything about that though at the moment. Hopefully if the people who feel the way we do ever reach the advanced age of your average ESer then maybe they will vote with us. Cool dream though

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

If you go on r/SandersForPresident, you will find out that Elizabeth Warren is not only a snake, but a deep undercover Republican operative who has been working on a multi decade agenda of destroying the progressive movement.

 

Curiously, the people most pushing the "Liz is the enemy of Bernie" meme are:  

 

1)  Russian bots.

2)  Donald Trump.  

 

[StillUnknown]

2 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Curiously, the people most pushing the "Liz is the enemy of Bernie" meme are:  

 

1)  Russian bots.

2)  Donald Trump.  

 

 

3) idiots

 

Of which, i fear there are plenty. Lose their leader and they'll run to the next cult like figure they can find

[Larry]

56 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Willing to concede how I feel to what's actually happening.  I'm still disappointed its Biden out of how many candidates ran.

 

Yeah, Biden certainly wasn't my first choice.  (Among other things, we all know the GOP smear machine is well primed for him.)  

 

But "Obama third term" certainly doesn't look bad, right now.  (Heck, that's what I expected Hillary to deliver, too.)  

 

And I'm still hoping it's "Biden/Pete".  I could see that combo adding some enthusiasm to the ticket.  (At least in my case.)  

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

If you go on r/SandersForPresident, you will find out that Elizabeth Warren is not only a snake, but a deep undercover Republican operative who has been working on a multi decade agenda of destroying the progressive movement.

 

Its true.

[bearrock]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Re: Dem party since LBJ

 

Each accomplishment has to be judged jn the context of their time.  ACA was passed during the height of complaint over preexisting condition and lifetime cap.  ACA addressed that.  Expansion of medicaid, premium subsidy, and cost sharing subsidy all helped to lower the individual burden of healthcare.  Yes it still has ways to go, but to dismiss it oit of hand ignores the state of US healthcare before ACA.

 

There was the pesky global financial meltdown thing too.

 

Political progress are made in inches.  The true fight is fought in the mud, wrangling votes from people pulling in dozen different directions and with executive actions that doesn't make sexy headlines but make real differences in the lives of people it targets.  If you want a revolution, politics is the wrong place to look for one.

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

Yikes

[bcl05]

18 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Curiously, the people most pushing the "Liz is the enemy of Bernie" meme are:  

 

1)  Russian bots.

2)  Donald Trump.  

 

 

That's redundant.