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Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

88Comrade2000

By 88Comrade2000
in The Tailgate

TK
Message added by TK,

 

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

 

 

If Bernie doesn't get 15% then -I- might start spouting conspiracy theories.  

 

Granted, just my opinion, but if there's a candidate who has an absolute floor level of support that he'll always get, it's Bernie.  

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

But the question was what metric are we using to judge this move to the Right/Left.  Or at least that is my question.  To me, the country has moved Left, at least on social issues (gay marriage being the biggest off the top of my head).

 

On things like gay rights there is no doubt that the country has moved to the left, but a whole host of other issues, the country has moved to the right.

 

Going back to the likes of Ford and Nixon the GOP argument was not that FDR's New Deal and LBJ's Great Society were wrong.  The argument was that the Republicans were better administrators of those programs.

 

With Reagan, the GOP and the country moved to the right in rejecting LBJ's Great Society and some of FDR's New Deal.  The Democrats correspondingly had to move to the right.

 

Bill Clinton declared the era of big government has ended.  The GOP has spent really 40 years attacking government and even something like the financial crisis gets blamed by many on government and not the corporate powers that went bankrupt during it (and others that would have if not for the intervention of government).

 

Going back into the 1970s, there were many Democrats that opposed spending increases related to health care.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_health_care_reform_in_the_United_States#1960s

 

"In August 1974, after Nixon's resignation and President Gerald Ford's call for health insurance reform, Mills tried to advance a compromise based on Nixon's plan—but with mandatory participation by employers and employees through premiums to private health insurance companies and catastrophic health insurance coverage financed by payroll taxes—but gave up when unable to get more than a 13–12 majority of his committee to support his compromise plan.[29][30][31][32] In December 1974, Mills resigned as chairman of the Ways and Means Committee and was succeeded by Representative Al Ullman (D-OR), who opposed payroll tax and general federal revenue financing of national health insurance."

 

And Republicans that supported it.

 

Politics really did used to be local.  One thing that has happened over the last 40 years is that politics is not really local any more and as part of that the parties are more homogeneous and monolithic.  With Citizens United, talk radio, and cable news, there's less localness to politics.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_politics_is_local

 

"Andrew Gelman argues that the "local" refers to "need[ing] local skills to win the primary election that gets them into their safe seat, and they need backroom political skills in the state legislature to keep their safe seats every 10 years." Gelman also argues, citing data for elections since 1968, that politics is "less local than it used to be"."

 

(Now, the embracing of the far democratic left of MMT has moved them dramatically to the left even as compared to the 1960s and 1970s.  On the far left, you now hear arguments made on spending that wouldn't have heard 60 years ago.)

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Sacks 'n' Stuff

Sacks 'n' Stuff

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Bill Clinton moved the Democrats to the right to beat VP Bush in 1992 election season. The Republicans then moved further right in the 2020 election season. Congressional Republicans have consistently moved further right with tgei their talk radio and Tea Party, to the point where they are hovering on autocracy and fascism.

I don’t know that the GOP moved to the right so much as they just abandoned any values whatsoever (right, left, sideways, diagonal) for, like you say at the end, power.

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted

Anyone else here getting random text messages from people campaigning for Elizabeth Warren? 

 

I got one earlier this week, pressed the lady on the issues and she folded like a lawn chair.  She admitted she had no idea about what her economic plan was.  She had no idea how the primaries worked and what delegates were.  We had a nice back and forth over some of the issues but when she finally figured I wasn't interested in Warren she huffed off.

 

And then I got another one today.  Sheesh. 

 

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bearrock

bearrock

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Bill Clinton declared the era of big government has ended.  The GOP has spent really 40 years attacking government and even something like the financial crisis gets blamed by many on government and not the corporate powers that went bankrupt during it (and others that would have if not for the intervention of government).

 

Going back into the 1970s, there were many Democrats that opposed spending increases related to health care.

 

But don't those two issues show that Dems have moved more left in recent years since the 70's? 

 

As for the 2008 market crash, at least the Dems seemed to blame it on maladministration and unchecked market, not some wrongheaded government intervention or regulation.  And certainly the response afterwards was in the form of more government oversight and intervention, not less.

 

As for healthcare, if Dems lacked an appetite to pass a version of the individual mandate during the Ford administration, they certainly didn't lack it during the Obama years.  Isn't that moving left compared to the 70's?

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TheGreatBuzz

TheGreatBuzz

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Now, the embracing of the far democratic left of MMT has moved them dramatically to the left even as compared to the 1960s and 1970s.  On the far left, you now hear arguments made on spending that wouldn't have heard 60 years ago.)

Bearrock already beat me to some of what I was going to say.  But want to add that based on what I’m reading, it seems the parties have flipped a 180 which isn’t the same as saying the Left has moved to the right.  

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, bearrock said:

I'm sure the Biden camp is rueing the fact that Super Tuesday turn around is so quick.  

 

Bet a good chunk of Super Tuesday has already voted.  

 

Also factor in that it may be two weeks before California can release numbers.  

 

9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Bearrock already beat me to some of what I was going to say.  But want to add that based on what I’m reading, it seems the parties have flipped a 180 which isn’t the same as saying the Left has moved to the right.  

 

Have they?  Or have the Dems stayed (relatively) constant, and the GOP has gone to plaid?  

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