Press Release: #REDSKINS PROMOTE DOUG WILLIAMS TO SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF PLAYER PERSONNEL

[Dissident2]

I'm not at all confident this will work, but I'm more than happy to be proven wrong. I like Doug. But yeah ... Mouth of Sauron strikes again.  

[RandyHolt]

What a brilliant move by Doug. Say it's better to go with no GM during your "interview". Knowing damn well that Bruce wants to retain some control if not full control, why not play that angle?  Say it's clearly best that this all be done by a committee - why just look at our last draft.  I want to be a big part of that committee.

 

How ironic, though, applying for a job but suggesting the job best not be filled - and then get a promotion. Pure brilliance. It's almost an opposite George Constanza move... or more like...

 

Pure Redskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

980 guys, Brian Mitchell, Doc, Scott Jackson going on about how ignorant and embarrassing it is that some fans on twitter aren't embracing this as a good move.  And they wonder IMO why 980 is struggling in the ratings?   I don't mind them having a forceful pro Doug position but they are backing it with almost nothing.  If you are going to be that outspoken on a position and demean those who disagree at least bring some actual meat to the debate.  That's actually one of my biggest problems with this prospective hire from the outset.  I like Doug the person and the player but want to be sold on Doug the personnel guy and I've yet to see the argument. 

 

The people who promote Doug from what I've observed do it with no to little meat behind it.  The best I've seen is two stories. 1. how much he liked Josh Freeman and specifically liked him over Sanchez in the draft.   2.  Anthony Lanier's coach called Doug and recommended him and Doug and then later Scot concurred with the coach's take.   Brian Mitchell and Scott Jackson are defending the choice by talking about how John Lynch has no experience either.  So basically case closed.  Maybe more substance coming but that's the gist of it so far.   Doc at least brings a tiny bit of meat to the discussion stating the obvious that Doug has been around football his whole life.  Brian adds a little about how Doug wants to add more opinions in the room in discussion about players and that's a good thing.

12 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

What a brilliant move by Doug. Say it's better to go with no GM during your "interview". Knowing damn well that Bruce wants to retain some control if not full control, why not play that angle?  Say it's clearly best that this all be done by a committee - why just look at our last draft.  I want to be a big part of that committee.

 

How ironic, though, applying for a job but suggesting the job best not be filled - and then get a promotion. Pure brilliance. It's almost an opposite George Constanza move... or more like...

 

Pure Redskins.

 

Yeah according to the WP, Doug was the one guy who talked up the no GM drill.  You got that and him wanting to promote Bruce's best friend's son.   It's definitely 101 smart interview technique -- tell the interviewer actually what he wants to hear.   

[London Kev]

I'm not really sure how I feel about this now that it's happened.

 

Doug Williams is a Redskin Hero and I obviously hope that he succeeds. But there is a worry that it won't work out and he ends up being the bad guy.

I want to remember him for his heroics on the field, not as that personnel-guy who got canned for some undisclosed reason.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I fully expect the 980 squad, particularly Doc and Bmitch, that love and respect Doug to say this is a good move whether they truly feel that way or not.

 

It also hits home on what Russell was saying about this being the perfect hire to cool the media's jets.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I fully expect the 980 squad, particularly Doc and Bmitch, that love and respect Doug to say this is a good move whether they truly feel that way or not.

 

It also hits home on what Russell was saying about this being the perfect hire to cool the media's jets.

 

Yep.  And don't get me wrong, I love the fact that Doug is a good guy and people love the guy personally.  I think the team could use guys like that considering Bruce and Danny aren't exactly cuddly lovable figures.  But I'd want a guy like Doug in a PR type position for that reason versus calling the shots.  I'd rather have a jerk but brilliant personnel guy running the show versus a great guy but questionable competence running it. 

 

But yeah Doug is somewhat untouchable to some.  And I have mixed emotions about that.  On one hand, Doug deserves respect and the chance to succeed.  On the other hand, the people hiring Doug don't deserve the benefit of the doubt IMO and the cynicism about the hire is more than warranted.  

[ExoDus84]

Nepotism hire who won't rock to the boat or ask questions, which is apparently far more important than hiring somebody who is qualified to do the job. Par for the course for the two frothing idiots at the top of the franchise. I really hope he does succeed, but he honestly has no body of work to suggest he should be anywhere near this kind of position.

 

Pathetic man.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.  And don't get me wrong, I love the fact that Doug is a good guy and people love the guy personally.

That's what makes this so tough.  I don't want to have ill will for Doug Williams.  I probably still won't after all is said and done because Bruce is the one responsible for this.  But many of the same people that are okay with this move today, will be the same ones drinking the Kool-Aid when this ends up going south and Doug gets thrown under the bus for being out of his league.

[Stadium-Armory]

I think this confirms what some of us have been saying since GMSM left. There is no (and never was a) GM search. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That's what makes this so tough.  I don't want to have ill will for Doug Williams.  I probably still won't after all is said and done because Bruce is the one responsible for this.  But many of the same people that are okay with this move today, will be the same ones drinking the Kool-Aid when this ends up going south and Doug gets thrown under the bus for being out of his league.

 

Yeah that's what makes the hire so tricky and clever in that way from a PR stand point.  You don't want to be slamming Doug Williams.  Great guy and a legend.  So if you attack the hire, you got to be careful on how you do it.   For me I hate the hire but love the guy.    It would be like hiring Riggo to be head coach.  Love Riggo the player the legend -- do I want him as the head coach, nope.    But I'll give it to Bruce, it was a clever hire if the idea is to bounce back with the media.  As I mentioned its easy to see that the media is very reluctant to critique this.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Wait...so are they done hiring for the front office? Which, in reality, nobody was hired lol...

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

980 guys, Brian Mitchell, Doc, Scott Jackson going on about how ignorant and embarrassing it is that some fans on twitter aren't embracing this as a good move.  And they wonder IMO why 980 is struggling in the ratings?   ...

To be fair, Inside the Locker Room or whatever that nonesense is called is an absolutely horrendous show under absolutely the best of circumstances. I can't even listen to the interviews that they do, because you learn nothing about anything ever.  Doc's propensity for interesting nicknames has even worn off with age.  It's a horrible listen.  And THAT is why 980's ratings are falling.  

 

That said, I think Doc played with Doug, and will be protective of him.  I'm sure that Doug and Brian know each other well, though they didn't play on the same teams.

 

There is definitely a Redskin Player fraternity, especially during the 80's and early 90's, and they all have each other's back.  So that's not remotely surprising.  

 

My thoughts are to wait and see.  We really have no idea what Doug Williams is good at and what he's not good at.  I know that he's ridiculously smart, a good football guy, good coach, and good with people.  There's absolutely no reason to think that he can't be a really good at this job.  

 

I'm going to wait and see.  The 'Skins had a good draft, by all accounts, and added some pretty good pieces through Free Agency.  Our former GM (assuming he had any say at all) had 2 iffy draft classes and built the worst defense the team has ever had.

 

Shrug.  Let's see before we panic.

 

Oh, wait.  I forgot.  EXTREMESkins. 

 

 

[carex]

Walker left the team in 85 Williams, came in in 86.  Walker's other team was the Bengals, and he played college ball at UCLA.  They were never teammates

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, carex said:

Walker left the team in 85 Williams, came in in 86.  Walker's other team was the Bengals, and he played college ball at UCLA.  They were never teammates

 

However there is absolutely a fraternity among former players, and more importantly former players employed by the owners radio station.  The guy won a super bowl for the team they won rings with and cover on the radio all year long.  I think its safe to say they are bias and for a good reason.

[RVAskins]

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Well, at least he won't be fired for being 'drunk on the job'.  I wonder what excuse will be used when that time finally comes.

[Voice_of_Reason]

31 minutes ago, carex said:

Walker left the team in 85 Williams, came in in 86.  Walker's other team was the Bengals, and he played college ball at UCLA.  They were never teammates

Ok, I thought Walker left later.  My bad.  However, I think the point probably still holds.  

20 minutes ago, Thirtyfive2seven said:

Well, at least he won't be fired for being 'drunk on the job'.  I wonder what excuse will be used when that time finally comes.

Let's hope that it doesn't come.  

[TSO]

Notice how no one is actually talking up that sterling Front Office, personnel-evaluating, resumé the Redskins' released here for Doug? 

 

I really don't give a damn how I'm perceived if I criticize Doug's ability as a Front Office exec. If I can't do that in someone's eyes because of his great legacy as a player... then that's their own damn stupidity they've got to deal with, not mine. 

 

Honestly, people who love Doug should be livid about this, not saying "give him a chance". I mean, duh, of course we will. But that doesn't change that he's literally been set up by Bruce right before our very eyes to be targeted unfairly and take any fall as necessary. You should be pissed that that's how they're treating him in what is obviously a political/PR move in every way. What the hell is on his resumé that suggests he should've been promoted or that there wasn't a ton of more qualified candidates? Please, someone convince me! 

 

But I guess we'll just have to take Dan and Bruce's word for it. You know, with their impeccable FO hiring process that has them constantly bringing in the best and the brightest here who last and do wonderful jobs, coveted by all around the league! 

 

I still can't believe Bruce actually said "Doug didn't want a GM" on top of it all. Wow, you ahole, you're still the guy choosing to hire the guy who said that, you're still the guy who could've told Doug otherwise since you're supposedly in charge of this entire process, why are you even putting that out there? 

 

And congrats, Dan, for getting "more involved in the hiring process". Just proved what I've thought about you for years. You have the worst hiring process I may have ever seen for a billionaire. 

 

I'm so pissed right now. Totally saw this coming and it still kills me. 

 

I can only only pray that Jay, Kirk, Doug, all the good people within the organization and all of us fans are saved from the foolishness of whom we have at the top of this organization. And that everyone will be smart enough, moving forward, to know where to point their fingers and not get swept into the PR marketing game of the "shiny new toy" coaching hire or Front-Office-weak-title-group-collaboration bs hire that deceptively appeases them while they openly cheer for firings, instability and dysfunction. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

My thoughts are to wait and see.  We really have no idea what Doug Williams is good at and what he's not good at.  I know that he's ridiculously smart, a good football guy, good coach, and good with people.  There's absolutely no reason to think that he can't be a really good at this job.  

 

I'm going to wait and see.  The 'Skins had a good draft, by all accounts, and added some pretty good pieces through Free Agency.  Our former GM (assuming he had any say at all) had 2 iffy draft classes and built the worst defense the team has ever had.

 

Shrug.  Let's see before we panic.

 

Oh, wait.  I forgot.  EXTREMESkins. 

 

 

 

No sarcasm implied if you don't know him but I am gathering based on you saying Doug is ridiculously smart you know him personally?  If so, I am interested in what else you know about him.  My main problem with this hire has been of the ones that tout the dude, its really been about him being a nice guy, nice guy, nice guy, deserved, deserved, deserved, deserved. lovable, lovable, lovable.   I'd love something compelling to gravitate towards.  In short, I'd love to love the hire.

 

So your "ridiculously smart" got my attention since its the highest praise I've seen thus far.    For me the pro-Doug comments have bothered me more than the anti-ones because they haven't really been about him excelling at the job unless it was a personality contest.  We all want the GM to succeed.   But its just odd to have a guy where the praise directed their way isn't centered on the core characteristics of the job. 

[Skinsinparadise]

this is my second fear about the hire.  If it doesn't go well, it likely ends ugly.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/13/williams-may-be-qb-allen-still-calling-plays/

There is little that is sadder in sports than a legend turned into a symbol of failure, a target of ridicule.

I hope there is a different future for Doug Williams, Super Bowl XXII Most Valuable Player and one of the 80 greatest Washington Redskins. I doubt there will be.

The Redskins announced Monday morning that Williams, 61, a franchise icon, was promoted to senior vice president of player personnel. Williams had already served in the front office as a senior executive, a role he had been in since coming back to Washington in 2014.

He had been invisible, for the most part, since then.

 

But on Monday, the target was placed on his back, as he was presented as the guy responsible.

We all know that won’t be the case — the guy truly responsible remains team president Bruce Allen, the Prince of Darkness who has overseen a tenure of dysfunction, disappointment and disgrace since he was hired in December 2009.

But the team presented Williams as the next, latest savior — 2½ years after they presented the last savior, general manager Scot McCloughan as general manager and three months after they dismissed that savior under a cloud of chaos and shame.

So is Doug Williams the new general manager?

 

“We had a general manager,” Williams told reporters. “It didn’t work out that well.”

I don’t think the title of general manager is the problem, Doug. Teams with Super Bowl championships all over the NFL have general managers. So if it “didn’t work out that well” in Washington, it is because it is the Redskins, the elephant graveyard of the NFL, where careers and reputations come to die.

 

“A general manager has his hand in everything,” Williams said. “My job is to control [the front office]. And I think if we do a good job, no matter what happens, we all get credit for what this football team does.”

Credit. That’s the bone that reportedly stuck in the throat of the Prince of Darkness during McCloughan’s reign.

Bruce Allen had become a running joke, called the “director of pants and picnics” by ESPN 980 talk show host Steve Czaban, forever ridiculed for his comments after their 4-12 seasons in 2014, when he declared the franchise was “winning off the field.”

Meanwhile, people were walking around town wearing T-shirts that declared, “In Scot We Trust.”

 

You will never see T-shirts that say, “In Bruce We Trust.”

However, Redskins fans will now trust Doug Williams to do what no one — let me make that clear, for those who have short memories — no one has been able to do in 25 years. They will trust him to turn the franchise into a respectable, consistent winner.

“We wanted someone with unquestionable character, great leadership skills, a presence and a great teammate for everyone around him,” said Allen, who had hired Williams in the front office in his previous stint in Tampa Bay. “And that pointed to Doug.”

It will be a shame if all that is forgotten. It will be a shame if a generation of fans remember Doug Williams as another front office failure.

[goskins10]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No sarcasm implied if you don't know him but I am gathering based on you saying Doug is ridiculously smart you know him personally?  If so, I am interested in what else you know about him.  My main problem with this hire has been of the ones that tout the dude, its really been about him being a nice guy, nice guy, nice guy, deserved, deserved, deserved, deserved. lovable, lovable, lovable.   I'd love something compelling to gravitate towards.  In short, I'd love to love the hire.

 

So your "ridiculously smart" got my attention since its the highest praise I've seen thus far.    For me the pro-Doug comments have bothered me more than the anti-ones because they haven't really been about him excelling at the job unless it was a personality contest.  We all want the GM to succeed.   But its just odd to have a guy where the praise directed their way isn't centered on the core characteristics of the job. 

 

 

I have met Doug. It was at a lunch where Tong Dungy was the main speaker. There were a room full of NFL players - including a few HOF'ers like Marcus Allen and Eric Dickerson. Also here were Brian Cox, Earnest Byner, Keenan McCardell, Jonathan Stewart and many others. Tony Dungy spoke about traveling with Doug as they flew together from Tampa to NC. He started by talking about him being such a celebrity - but then went on to talk about he always enjoyed talking football with him as he has such a high football IQ. I spoke to Earnest about that (he was at my lunch table) and he agreed. Doug clearly had the respect of the other players and coaches in the room, and not just because he was a nice guy.

 

So the "ridiculously smart" comment does not surprise me. Does that mean he is good at player evaluations? Not sure. I will say that while people want to ignore it, his time as the HC at Grambling (twice) had to have helped in his ability to evaluate players. Time will tell how successful he is. I wish him well. The alternative will suck for us.

 

One last thing, one benefit he has it that he and Jay have been working together for the last 3 years. He has actually known Jay since Jay was a kid. If nothing else I would have to believed they are mostly on the same page as to what kind of roster they want. As I said before, my bigger concern is them wanting a player(s) and Bruce being too frugal.

 

 

[Riggo'sRangers]

22 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I have met Doug. It was at a lunch where Tong Dungy was the main speaker...Tony Dungy spoke about traveling with Doug as they flew together from Tampa to NC. He started by talking about him being such a celebrity - but then went on to talk about he always enjoyed talking football with him as he has such a high football IQ. I spoke to Earnest about that (he was at my lunch table) and he agreed. Doug clearly had the respect of the other players and coaches in the room, and not just because he was a nice guy....

 

Good post & nice personal insight.  Hail

[dyst]

Every stupid decision this team makes under Snyder, which is a lot, is for us to soothe ourselves by telling one another "let's just wait and see how it plays out". I'm so tired of that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

So the "ridiculously smart" comment does not surprise me. Does that mean he is good at player evaluations? Not sure. I will say that while people want to ignore it, his time as the HC at Grambling (twice) had to have helped in his ability to evaluate players. Time will tell how successful he is. I wish him well. The alternative will suck for us.

 

One last thing, one benefit he has it that he and Jay have been working together for the last 3 years. He has actually known Jay since Jay was a kid. If nothing else I would have to believed they are mostly on the same page as to what kind of roster they want. As I said before, my bigger concern is them wanting a player(s) and Bruce being too frugal.

 

 

 

I'd only buy into him being ridiculously smart if someone spent some time with him. That's why I was asking Thinking Skins if he met him.  And if he did I'd buy into it and I'd be curious about that experience.  I've been paying attention to the accolades and criticism on Doug and perhaps I missed it but the idea that he's ridiculously smart isn't a description I recall seeing.  

 

The picture that is being painted good and bad (and I'll focus more on the good) is something like this:  Doug's gift is people.  People like him and he can judge people.  He can rally the FO because of his stellar reputation, integrity and easy going personality.  He knows his way around football from being part of the game for so long.  He's eager to succeed and wants to beef up the FO with more people.  He's nothing special as a personnel evaluator or ultra competent.  But he commands respect and the FO will rally around him.    When Scot left he was the guy who helped rally the troops.  The idea that Doug is ultra good or crazy intelligent doesn't seem to be part of the narrative or at least so from what I've seen.  I might be missing it.

 

I talked to Bruce for a few minutes one on one but I don't think I'd be qualified to label his intelligence.   I spent two hours talking to Scot -- I think I can give a better assessment of him because of the time I spent.  I've watched Doug in a gazillion interviews over the years dating back from the 80s.  And from that "ridiculously smart" isn't one of the terms that come to mind.   When we watch coaches/players being interviewed the easiest thing to notice is how articulate they are.   Vinny for example wasn't an articulate guy.  Bruce is fairly articulate. 

 

Another example is Blackmon is ultra articulate so if someone told me he's crazy smart, it would be believable.  Doug Williams to me isn't articulate.  Louis Reddick on ESPN can talk football and comes off to me ridiculously articulate and in command of what he's talking about.  Doug never came across that way to me over the years, not even close.  And while I agree you can be ridiculously smart without being articulate -- to gauge that you got to know that person some and see them in action.

 

I got no doubt Doug is liked and respected.  And I am open to the idea that Doug is ridiculously smart but for me to be convinced I'd love a story for someone who knows him on that front.  That's why I was asking -- because watching Doug on TV he doesn't ooze competence to me the way some others do.  That doesn't mean he isn't competent.  But when you got guys like Grant Paulsen saying they've talked to multiple people and the refrain is the same "nice guy but isn't the most competent dude" -- it makes you wonder why Doug has never been in demand as far as I know to get a job like this elsewhere.  But I am searching for a good sell for Doug on that front because I haven't really stumbled on it thus far.

[carex]

21 minutes ago, dyst said:

Every stupid decision this team makes under Snyder, which is a lot, is for us to soothe ourselves by telling one another "let's just wait and see how it plays out". I'm so tired of that. 

 

well, you know there's not a lot highly successful guys out there looking for jobs, and even if you get a guy who can't advance with his current team there's still a chance that he could blow it.

 

Meaning every move is "let's just  wait and see" whether you want to admit it or not