The Sewer That Is The GOP: With All The White Supremacists, Conspiracy Nutters, And Other Malicious Whacko Subgroups, How Does It Get Fixed?

[Momma There Goes That Man]

39 minutes ago, tshile said:

instead they’re gonna **** foot around and probably lose in the midterms

i don’t think this is a maybe. It is an absolute certainty. Biden needs to understand his presidency has about 17 months left and then it’s most likely over for our American experiment. 
 

he’s not acting like someone that realizes his administration is the last wall standing between American authoritarianism. 

[tshile]

33 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

What do people want Biden to do?

Well. Considering my lack of political expertise, I’ll avoid anything specific. 
 

instead I’ll basically add on to what I already said:

the case should be made that the trump-centric conservatives in this country are nothing more than authoritarian fascists. The list of examples is long. 
 

instead he’s pursuing this “back to business as usual” and “reaching across the aisle”

 

which under normal circumstances I would actually appreciate and agree with. 
 

but this isn’t normal circumstances. You either view American democracy as under attack or you don’t. I view it as under attack. So what I want Biden to do is act like it’s under attack. 
 

What were winding up with is a democrat admin that is trying to not “stir things up” and wants everyone to get along again, but gets no traction, needed legislation doesn’t pass, and come midterms the gop will run a “see they’re incompetent and can’t get anything done” campaign against them (in addition to the “they want to take away your freedoms and make white people second class citizens” nonsense)

 

Biden has done a lot. I’m not trying to take any of that away from him. He’s out a dent in the mess trump made. 
 

but everything he did could have also been done while doing what I want. 
 

and with a galvanized dem party on the same page we’d already have voter rights and infrastructure done, and working on other things. 
 

the gop playbook isn’t hard to figure out. Yet the Dems get burned by it every time. 
 

the opening to Newsroom is pretty much spot on. Liberals are losers when it comes to governance. 
(the best part is when he says Yosemite)

Edited July 13, 2021 by tshile

[GhostofSparta]

22 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

he’s not acting like someone that realizes his administration is the last wall standing between American authoritarianism. 

Because he doesn't believe it. It's really that simple. He's the guy who watched what the R's turned into while he was VP (or at least were much more willing to become vocal about their beliefs), and he still thinks that people like Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney are the "real Republican party" who believe in compromise and actually governing.

 

I know we just saw the epitome of what happens when someone with no experience takes over the highest office of the land, but now we're seeing the exact opposite: someone who has spent TOO much time in Congress holding that office. You served in Congress for what, 40 years or so? and this is the result. Biden served with some of these people. He's probably good friends with some of the people who publicly denounce him at every opportunity. He is either unable or unwilling to believe that these people that he worked with for so long really don't give a **** about him or their constituents as long as they can score imaginary points against him for opposing him.

 

At least that's how I see it. I could be wrong, but I don't know how else to think based on his words and actions.

[PeterMP]

 

1 hour ago, tshile said:

Well. Considering my lack of political expertise, I’ll avoid anything specific. 
 

instead I’ll basically add on to what I already said:

the case should be made that the trump-centric conservatives in this country are nothing more than authoritarian fascists. The list of examples is long. 
 

instead he’s pursuing this “back to business as usual” and “reaching across the aisle”

 

which under normal circumstances I would actually appreciate and agree with. 
 

but this isn’t normal circumstances. You either view American democracy as under attack or you don’t. I view it as under attack. So what I want Biden to do is act like it’s under attack. 
 

What were winding up with is a democrat admin that is trying to not “stir things up” and wants everyone to get along again, but gets no traction, needed legislation doesn’t pass, and come midterms the gop will run a “see they’re incompetent and can’t get anything done” campaign against them (in addition to the “they want to take away your freedoms and make white people second class citizens” nonsense)

 

Biden has done a lot. I’m not trying to take any of that away from him. He’s out a dent in the mess trump made. 
 

but everything he did could have also been done while doing what I want. 
 

and with a galvanized dem party on the same page we’d already have voter rights and infrastructure done, and working on other things. 
 

the gop playbook isn’t hard to figure out. Yet the Dems get burned by it every time. 
 

the opening to Newsroom is pretty much spot on. Liberals are losers when it comes to governance. 
(the best part is when he says Yosemite)

 

I just don't see where he can really do anything. I suspect that he has a good appreciation of what the Republican party is about.  But as I've said before, he can't change Manchin's (and others) minds.  It isn't the Republican party really (i.e. the elected officials).  ~40% of the people are going to oppose pretty much anything Biden does.  And given our government and the population distributions, those 40% have a lot of power.  

Would Biden love to get a broad based voting right act passed?  Yes, I suspect the answer is yes. 

 

Is there anything he can really do to get Manchin or a Republican to vote for one?

I don't think there's anything he can do that he isn't/hasn't done.  I strongly suspect he's talked about it with Manchin and others.

 

I do think Romney is interested in governing.  It is hard to look at his larger record and conclude otherwise.  What I would say is he's also interested in winning elections, and he's in a spot where cooperating with Biden is a sure way to be primaried.  Now, I'd certainly argue and believe that, especially, now is a time to do the right thing and not worry about winning elections, and I think that history is going to look poorly on "Trump collaborators".  But I don't think Biden has the means or ability to change Romney's calculus on the situation.

 

And there's nothing that Biden can do that will change Utah voters.  We have a set of voters that have divorced from reality.  I don't think Biden can bring them back.  Anything he says on the issue is going to be ignored or ridiculed.  Romney's looked at the situation and decided that the "best" thing is for him to be a Senator from Utah and that excludes cooperating with Democrats.  Maybe I'll be wrong and history will judge Romney well, but I doubt it.

 

(I'll point out that Obama didn't have the experience in Congress and still had essentially the same issues.  He managed to get the ACA passed but did essentially nothing else.  He was President when Russia interfered with the election and saw the rise of Trump.  In some ways as an popular ex-President he has more power than Biden, but he's not doing anything.  And it isn't just Obama, but the whole Democratic leadership.

 

It is easy to blame the larger societal problems on a few (e.g. the Democratic leadership) rather than looking at what we could all could and should do.

 

For too long, we've either ignored conversations on politics (not necessarily the people here) in our personal/individual lives to avoid conflict and/or ridiculed people that disagree with us rather than have discussions with explanations (which absolutely happens here).

 

When you get a population that can't or won't talk about politics and policy, I think what you see is what you get. 

 

I guess I don't see the problem as a Biden problem or even a Trump problem, but an American society/culture problem.)

Edited July 13, 2021 by PeterMP

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

What do people want Biden to do?

 

I don't honestly know. But I elected him to fix this **** and if there is nothing else he can do then maybe I elected the wrong person. 

 

I wouldn't mind him setting Manchins feet on fire politically and seeing how long he can take it. I wouldn't mind finding a way to pay Manchin illegally under the table to flip. Maybe a bunch of fundraisers for him. Maybe give him a cabinet position. My issue with Biden is that I don't think he would consider either of those options and I already would have. I would make Joe Manchin Chief of ****ing Staff today if it got me HR1 and that would be the end of my presidency. But I would do it. 

 

Ultimately it comes down to im scared as **** about what's going to happen in two years if this stuff doesn't get fixed now. And I don't get the feeling like he shares that fear with me. That's a bad place to be in. 

[PeterMP]

This is from 2008:

 

 

It isn't Biden's fault and making him President doesn't mean that he can change it.

9 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I don't honestly know. But I elected him to fix this **** and if there is nothing else he can do then maybe I elected the wrong person. 

 

I wouldn't mind him setting Manchins feet on fire politically and seeing how long he can take it. I wouldn't mind finding a way to pay Manchin illegally under the table to flip. Maybe a bunch of fundraisers for him. Maybe give him a cabinet position. My issue with Biden is that I don't think he would consider either of those options and I already would have. I would make Joe Manchin Chief of ****ing Staff today if it got me HR1 and that would be the end of my presidency. But I would do it. 

 

Ultimately it comes down to im scared as **** about what's going to happen in two years if this stuff doesn't get fixed now. And I don't get the feeling like he shares that fear with me. That's a bad place to be in. 

 

Why would Manchin want to leave the Senate and become Chief of Staff?

 

Or the Cabinet?

He'll have a much longer and cushier career as a Senator than in the White House.

 

And him bribing Manchin in the long run would likely backfire and do more harm than good.

 

I don't disagree.  It is a scary time.  But blaming somebody for a problem that they can't really fix doesn't do any good.

Edited July 13, 2021 by PeterMP

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Why would Manchin want to leave the Senate and become Chief of Staff?

 

Or the Cabinet?

He'll have a much longer and cushier career as a Senator than in the White House.

 

And him bribing Manchin in the long run would likely backfire and do more harm than good.

 

I don't disagree.  It is a scary time.  But blaming somebody for a problem that they can't really fix doesn't do any good.

 

Maybe Machin is motivated my money or historical status. There are plenty in the government that are motivated by both of those things. Thats what im getting at. Im pretty confidant Manchin can be bought. Buy him.  

[PeterMP]

7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Maybe Machin is motivated my money or historical status. There are plenty in the government that are motivated by both of those things. Thats what im getting at. Im pretty confidant Manchin can be bought. Buy him.  

 

Manchin easily has more notoriety and likely historical status given his current position in the Senate than he would have as a Chief of Staff or in the Cabinet.

 

Legally buying a sitting US Senator isn't an easy thing to do, and I seriously doubt that buying him illegally is going to long term fix the problem.  I think that actually has a good chance of back firing and making the situation worse in the longer term.

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by PeterMP

[Captain Wiggles]

Manchin is worth like $8 million. He's already been bought. 😉

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/personal-finances/net-worth?cid=N00032838&year=2014

 

His daughter is Heather Bresch. She was the head of Mylan a few years back when they jacked up the price of the epipen. Her net worth is well over $30 million. 🤔

[tshile]

@PeterMP

i think there’s a difference between saying:

what should Biden do

and

what should Biden get done

 

i realize Biden can’t change the minds of 40% of the population right now. I realize he cannot force any particular rep to vote what’s right over what protects their job.  
 

but he sure as hell can go out there every day and make the case for what these people are. 
 

instead he’s talking about the need for bipartisanship when that clearly isn’t possible. 
 

This is weak leadership. It’s weak governing. It’s a weak example of being an American. 
 

The arguments from friends that democrats are republicans in disguise is looking more and more true.

 

at some point it doesn’t matter what Biden thinks or wants or what he’s doing behind the scenes. The public face of his administration currently is begging for bipartisanship when it’s not possible (and everyone knows it), and being weak in the fact of fascist authoritarianism. 
 

kind of a ****ty legacy to chase if you ask me. 

[Llevron]

I dunno guys. I watched the last guy do whatever he could legally and illegally to enrich himself and his buddies. I would like the same kind of aggressiveness on voting rights, if nothing else. Its the center of our democracy. I 100% think its worth playing a little dirty if you have to. I want Biden to atleast show hes willing to play to win the game. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I hate Cal Cunningham.

[PeterMP]

11 minutes ago, tshile said:

@PeterMP

i think there’s a difference between saying:

what should Biden do

and

what should Biden get done

 

i realize Biden can’t change the minds of 40% of the population right now. I realize he cannot force any particular rep to vote what’s right over what protects their job.  
 

but he sure as hell can go out there every day and make the case for what these people are. 
 

instead he’s talking about the need for bipartisanship when that clearly isn’t possible. 
 

This is weak leadership. It’s weak governing. It’s a weak example of being an American. 
 

The arguments from friends that democrats are republicans in disguise is looking more and more true.

 

at some point it doesn’t matter what Biden thinks or wants or what he’s doing behind the scenes. The public face of his administration currently is begging for bipartisanship when it’s not possible (and everyone knows it), and being weak in the fact of fascist authoritarianism. 
 

kind of a ****ty legacy to chase if you ask me. 

 

 

So more like this?

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-make-moral-case-voting-rights-slam-authoritarian/story?id=78800842

 

I don't really disagree.  I just don't think it will actually do any good.

[Captain Wiggles]

21 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I hate Cal Cunningham.

 

I'm still pretty salty about voting for him. 😡

 

Should of ran Erica Smith. Hopefully she does well in her 2022 Senate campaign.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

**** it. Just hold an impromptu address to the nation. The script doesn’t get leaked so there is no time to spin it before. It’s a surprise and it’s viewed by all as “oh **** something serious” 
 

Deliver a primetime address on it. Speak about American democracy and our history and wrap yourself in the American flag and American ideals. Then discuss the legislation going on in states and articulate specifically why this harms our democracy and why this is so dangerous to all voters not just targeted minorities and demographics. call out the republicans in congress directly for blocking this critical legislation. Then speak about the voting legislation in Congress that desperately needs to pass and encourage voters to call their reps and senators in support of this. Play it as empowering the people to save their democracy. 
 

this is what Trump should have done at the start of covid and he’d be president now. 
 

it may not work but at least you are making an effort and getting this out in front of people who may not be aware and you are trying to put pressure on senators to act in the interest of American democracy. 
 

.

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Momma There Goes That Man

[China]

20 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Deliver a primetime address on it. Speak about American democracy and our history and wrap yourself in the American flag and American ideals. Then discuss the legislation going on in states and articulate specifically why this harms our democracy and why this is so dangerous to all voters not just targeted minorities and demographics. call out the republicans in congress directly for blocking this critical legislation. Then speak about the voting legislation in Congress that desperately needs to pass and encourage voters to call their reps and senators in support of this. Play it as empowering the people to save their democracy. 
 

 

Biden's speech today in Philadelphia where he discusses the voting right bill and calling out the bad things the GOP are doing.

 

President Biden Delivers Remarks on Voting Rights

 

I didn't even know he was giving this speech.  Most people will probably never hear it.  So to your point he needs to make this kind of thing a primetime public address where more people will hear about it.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by China

[Ball Security]

3 minutes ago, China said:

 

Biden's speech today in Philadelphia where he discusses the voting right bill and calling out the bad things the GOP are doing.

 

President Biden Delivers Remarks on Voting Rights

 

I didn't even know he was giving this speech.  Most people will probably never hear it.  So to your point he needs to make this kind of thing a primetime public address where more people will hear about it.

 

 

Probably not.  Was in the gym from 2-3.  Fox News was on.  Long segment about how schools are anti-white and then the Cuba protests.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

18 minutes ago, China said:

 

Biden's speech today in Philadelphia where he discusses the voting right bill and calling out the bad things the GOP are doing.

 

President Biden Delivers Remarks on Voting Rights

 

I didn't even know he was giving this speech.  Most people will probably never hear it.  So to your point he needs to make this kind of thing a primetime public address where more people will hear about it.

 

 

i was typing that as he was speaking and didn’t even know it was on. I doubt anyone outside of those rare breeds that watch PBS or cspan at 3:30 on a Tuesday know about it. That’s why he has to elevate this. 
 

presidents give daytime speeches for tons of reasons. Primetime addresses that interrupt broadcasting are reserved for serious matters like wars and attacks etc. that’s what this needs to be. An attack on democracy that a primetime address would escalate in the minds of voters. 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

 

So more like this?

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-make-moral-case-voting-rights-slam-authoritarian/story?id=78800842

 

I don't really disagree.  I just don't think it will actually do any good.

Yes. In fact I caught the WTOP segment on it when I left after the last post

 

but I’d have liked it 4 months ago. 
 

I don’t know whether it’ll do any good or not but **** at least try. 

Also the goal here isn’t the fix the 30-40% of the ****tards we have

 

the goal is to make it so independents and moderates have no excuse for their votes. Make it so it’s crystal clear what is going on and what their options are. Don’t them hind behind not paying attention, botherism, etc. 

 

it’s not like the republicans are going to ever vote for anything Biden wants that matters. 
 

muse every rule to your advantage to push through anything you can

 

and make every day from now until midterms about the ****ery that is the Republican Party. And hope maybe the Dems pick up seats and can do something. 
 

and if not then at least you can say you went down swinging. 
 

cause otherwise you’re just another useless politician refusing to buck up to the republicans bull****. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[PeterMP]

5 hours ago, tshile said:

Yes. In fact I caught the WTOP segment on it when I left after the last post

 

but I’d have liked it 4 months ago. 
 

I don’t know whether it’ll do any good or not but **** at least try. 

Also the goal here isn’t the fix the 30-40% of the ****tards we have

 

the goal is to make it so independents and moderates have no excuse for their votes. Make it so it’s crystal clear what is going on and what their options are. Don’t them hind behind not paying attention, botherism, etc. 

 

it’s not like the republicans are going to ever vote for anything Biden wants that matters. 
 

muse every rule to your advantage to push through anything you can

 

and make every day from now until midterms about the ****ery that is the Republican Party. And hope maybe the Dems pick up seats and can do something. 
 

and if not then at least you can say you went down swinging. 
 

cause otherwise you’re just another useless politician refusing to buck up to the republicans bull****. 

 

I think that's reasonable (and some of the other things here).  I think a prime time address calling out the Republican attempts to lower voter participation and tying it to a rise in authoritian tendencies of the current Republican party would be good.

[tshile]

It also sounds like Harris is floating the filibuster exemption. So obviously they’ve grown tired of waiting. So, good. 
 

[NoCalMike]

The voter suppression by the GOP is nothing new.  It isn't something that just came about because of Trump.  The voter suppression going on in 2021 on the other hand, yes it is reinvigorated due to Trump and assistance from every right-wing media outlet to spread the lies about the election and also reducing the entire voter suppression conversation simply to being about Voter ID when that is a very disingenuous narrative to begin with.   Voter suppression in it's modern form has been around since the civil rights era.  It is an on-going effort to counter the dwindling support for the GOP.  We already see the effects gerrymandering has had where the Democratic candidates get millions more votes for their candidates but districts are drawn to make it not matter.  That isn't democracy.

 

The bottomline is, the Dems know what the GOP is attempting to do.  Manchin  & Sinema know as much as everyone else that unless a federal voting rights act is passed which will render anything TX tries to do futile, that they along with every other red state will begin implimenting this.  Once they succeed they will take back the house and the senate and they will falsely claim that it is due to the will of the people pushing back against "Joe Biden's socialist woke party"  or some other nonsense.   Manchin & Sinema should also be well aware by now that the GOP is never going to vote for a voting rights bill.  They don't want more people voting, they want less people voting, less democratic voters voting specifically.  This is a truth that they are basically willing to sit by and fundamentally understand yet take no action to protect democacy going forward.  I thought initially Manchin was going to attempt negotiating a bill to win over some GOP but he has to know by now they are not voting for it, period, ever.  They aren't in agreement about wanting to protect the right to vote.  It isn't happening.

 

I don't care if they break the filibuster for this specific issue and then install it right back in.  I simply don't care at this point.  The right to vote and the protection to cast your vote without unreasonable hurdles is too important to play around with because the next time the GOP wins back the majority, it's over.

[The Evil Genius]

[The Evil Genius]

I would say that this is disappointing but....

Staind always sucked. 

 

I guess he's just another MAGAt.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by The Evil Genius