How do you feel about the Receiving corps?

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

He's tough to judge given the lack of PT this camp, you're right.  Thought he performed admirably as a rookie though.  Not sure if coaches have the same "what have you done for me lately"/"shiny toy" attitude as us fans (to the same degree anyway).  

 

I love the potential Davis provides, as well as attitude about playing ST.  Of course, I'm not sure what the coaches think based on TC.  He's flashed a bit in the games, but I didn't notice him on Sunday.  The good news is that with Grant ahead of him (in terms of backups), coaches can feel a bit more comfortable having a rook in the mix... similar to Harris last year.  

 

So, I'm putting Harris above the rest for now (contrary to @MartinC and his tweet about cutting him for the block in the back, lol), but it's still fluid.  

 

That was 'slightly' tounge in cheek. But only slightly.

 

That kind of dumb penalty is one of my hot buttons - it's the kind of thing that looses you games.

[skinny21]

3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

That was 'slightly' tounge in cheek. But only slightly.

 

That kind of dumb penalty is one of my hot buttons - it's the kind of thing that looses you games.

Haha, I kind of figured... unless your twitter persona is much more hard core than your ES persona.  ?

 

@PartyPossetrue enough on Pascal.  I had to laugh about his tweet regarding the punt block.  Good stuff.  

 

I have to say, a small part of me wondered if they held Davis back last game to reduce the tape on him (so they could possibly PS him).  I'm sure that's absurd... 

 

I think Harris, Hazel, Davis and Pascal are all real close.  

[MartinC]

Just now, skinny21 said:

Haha, I kind of figured... unless your twitter persona is much more hard core than your ES persona.  ?

 

@PartyPossetrue enough on Pascal.  I had to laugh about his tweet regarding the punt block.  Good stuff.  

 

I have to say, a small part of me wondered if they held Davis back last game to reduce the tape on him (so they could possibly PS him).  I'm sure that's absurd... 

 

I think Harris, Hazel, Davis and Pascal are all real close.  

 

 

I think Davis makes the 53, but your right those guys are all really close. Quick is in that group as well.

 

Pryor, Doctson, Crowder, Grant (I know I know - but he is a core teams guy and gives cover to all 3 receiver spots) are locks. I think they keep 6 and I would have Harris and Davis as the last two. 

[skinny21]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

 

I think Davis makes the 53, but your right those guys are all really close. Quick is in that group as well.

 

Pryor, Doctson, Crowder, Grant (I know I know - but he is a core teams guy and gives cover to all 3 receiver spots) are locks. I think they keep 6 and I would have Harris and Davis as the last two. 

Right there with you.  Tend to agree about Quick, though I think you generally want up-and-comers (and ST aces) manning the back of the depth chart.  Somewhat ironically, if Grant wasn't on the roster, I think they'd be more likely to keep the vet. 

 

I'm actually not nearly as down on Grant as many/most seem to be - partially for the reasons you mentioned.  Been trying to figure out what the deal is with him.  Questioned (myself?) whether it was an athleticism thing, coordination, or what. Just pulled this from combine report, and it's an... interesting breakdown given what we know now.  Didn't help me much, lol.  

 

STRENGTHS

Good size. Smooth accelerator off the line. Good flexibility to sink his hips. Tracks throws and shows terrific body control to adjust. Impressive hands catcher -- quick, soft mitts. Makes NFL-caliber catches, snatching throws out of the air away from his body. Determined runner with the ball in his hands. Nice upfield quickness to pick up yards after the catch. Good field awareness.

WEAKNESSES

Could stand to improve functional strength and physicality. Can be jammed and rerouted at the line. Pedestrian speed. Is an unpolished route runner and does not consistently separate -- drifts into patterns neglecting deception and does not snap off breaks. Limited route tree. Marginal blocker. Appears lackadaisical at times -- intermittent intensity, urgency and compete level. Questionable courage to work the middle of the field.

 

[SkinsFTW]

I'm going to go on hoping that Grant is gone. They can replace him with a cardboard cutout of Pierre Garcon or a Santana Moss vs Dallas in 2005 poster and it'd be a more worthy 53rd roster spot.

 

[OVCChairman]

I'm starting to get worried about the WRs out there.  Pryor is 50/50 on whether he's gonna catch it in a game so far, and Doc was on the shelf again as a precaution.  

[justice98]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

I'm starting to get worried about the WRs out there.  Pryor is 50/50 on whether he's gonna catch it in a game so far, and Doc was on the shelf again as a precaution.  

 

They WR corp looked like it had the potential for awesome on paper.  I'm less concerned about Pryor, I think he'll settle down and be fine. Mainly because we've at least seen him do something. It's Doctson and the 4th WR who will probably play a lot that I'm worried about.

[I Love The Skins]

I'm still not concern about the WR group they will be fine IMO.

[BurgundyBooger]

I'd like to see Kirk utilize his receivers more. Watching him execute playaction only to throw to a RB in the flats is getting old.

[RandyHolt]

13 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Don't know if leaving him off was intentional, but I'm less certain that Harris makes the team now.  My hunch is they keep him (he's more of a known quality), but maybe not at the expense of Davis.  

Harris has become my sleeper 5.  Jay loved him last year. He was injured in camp which I think has him off the radar what with all the shiny new toys (Pryor, Doctson, Davis, etc). I think Davis is a bit raw yet.  A #5 has to play teams. And what do you know, we saw Harris getting some reps at backup PR.

 

The wildcard is Quick.  I presume most think he is a goner, but something is telling me not to write him off just yet.  Young WRs often do not pan out - and Jay knows this.  I heard a stat on XM the other day, a young WR needs something like 20 catches within their first 2 years to have any chance of a career.

 

Pryor | Crowder | Doctson | Grant | Harris  PS Davis

Pryor | Crowder | Doctson | Grant | Quick

 

I find it interesting to read that Pryor said the ball was early. I have mentioned that it sure looks like Kirk is firing the ball a lot harder this year. Throwing harder = pass is early. Kirk certainly seems as off as Pryor, anyways. 

 

 

[bobandweave]

19 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

140 targets and 4 drops.  Now I'm not entirely sure what constitutes as a drop for statistical purposes, but he was playing with awful QBs. 

 

If the ball is a catchable pass and hits the receiver in the hands and he can't hold onto it then it's a drop. But don't ask Pryor, he doesn't care

 

Quote

“It is what it is. A dropped ball? I mean, who cares? It happens,” Pryor said after the game when asked if he was disappointed. “When I came out [of the break], the ball’s out a little early. I saw it coming in flight and then as soon as it hit my hands, I started looking because I wanted to go, catch the ball and run. And that’s usually what happens when you don’t look the ball all the way in and you look to run instead. So that’s what I’m saying: It happens. We’ll grow from that and get better.”

 

 

When a receiver is targeted 7 times, and drops 3 passes its concerning and should be to everyone involved. The highlight reel off season videos were nice and got us all excited and all that but if this is what he's gonna do in the regular season this offense is going to struggle big time

[bobandweave]

sorry double post

[skinny21]

@RandyHoltYeah, Harris was a lock for me a couple or so weeks ago.  The lack of PT and other guys stepping up are what has bumped him down to "best of the rest" status (and not by much).  

 

Davis is intriguing, because although he hasn't flashed too much, some decent press plus very impressive measureables makes him 1) a great developmental prospect and 2) a risk to try to PS.  

 

Interesting idea/note about Cousins there.  Wish he had been early with the ball on that pick 6, lol.  

 

@bobandweavePersonally, words from players don't typically concern me.  These guys are put on the spot and aren't exactly professional spokespeople.  Now, if their actions match up to the 'concerning' rhetoric... that becomes a problem.  Doesn't seem to be the case with Pryor.  

 

The drops are concerning though.  Hope that gets smoothed out in a hurry.  

[bobandweave]

Any professional receiver who's going to average close to 50% drop rate isn't someone that should be receiving the lions share of targets in any NFL team offense. That ratio of drops to catches is Ted Ginn like, except the wheels on Ginn make including him in a teams passing game sustainable to keep peppering him with targets since he's a deep threat 3rd or 4th passing game option. We don't look at those two players the same either and expect Pryor to be our 1. If Pryor wants to be considered in the receiver elite category drops are unacceptable. Sure Julio Jones and Antonio Brown at times drops a pass but at the rate Pryor has been? Not even close. His comment irked me slightly because he's blowing the drops off as inevitable and I expect more from any guy betting on himself on a one year deal. The comments don't bother me as much as the drops. That's game killers if it continues

[OVCChairman]

Sounded to me like he was taking the blame, and that he understands it's a problem but you can't dwell on it... WR and DBs need a short memory to be successful.  DBs get beat sometimes.. They have to be able to come back out and not think about it... Wrs make mistakes too... he knows what happened, he said he tried to run before he caught it, and that he will grow from it.  I don't mind what he said, in fact it leads me to believe he wont want to let it happen again.  This preseason has been concerning, but IF it's gonna happen, i want the WR to take it on the chin, and let it go.  

[NoCalMike]

I understand why Pryor's preseason performance so far hasn't been what we've wanted to see, but we also have to remember the guy was a 1,000 yard WR on a Browns team that had 5 different QBs (none of them any good) throwing passes to him last year.  Maybe part of that was because he was the only viable option at WR so he was targeted a ridiculous amount of times?  However, he was definitely an impact player in 2016.  Is it possible it will take longer for he and Cousins to become acclimated to each other's style?  Perhaps.

 

I suppose on the "cup half empty" side of things. Rod Gardner was also a 1,000 yard WR for a season too. 

 

Never can tell until the season plays out.

 

My bigger issue is with Doctson. Whatever his "potential" is....is boarding a bus and getting ready to leave town.  We've been down this road many times before with WRs the team has drafted.  Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelley..............Taylor Jacobs........ugh.   My issue with Doctson is not so much his ability. I think the blinks of an eye we have seen him on the football field, he has shown the flashes of what is possible.  The problem is the guy can't stay on the field...at all.  His injury as a rookie was one thing, as it felt like something he never could let properly heal unless he just sat on it for a long time.  That issue is done and gone now and he still can't get on the field. If it's not this it's that....it just feels never ending at this point.  Maybe he is one of those players that will just run into a lot of bad luck with his body early on but in a few seasons he will be so good that we will have forgotten all about this......but I am not counting on it.

 

All of this would worry me less if Jordan Reed didn't get hurt so often as well, because I still think Jordan Reed & Crowder are a good enough duo that it will help integrate new WRs to this offense.

[dyst]

TP is a QB who became a WR once he was already in the NFL for a few years. Expect drops from him. That's who he is, it's what he does. Some fans get carried away thinking he was going to replace Jackson.

[Hail2theSkins24]

Jay calling out Doctson a little bit today. I like it. I'm sure coaches and players are getting a little fed up with Doctson. There is a big difference between being hurt and being sore. Time for the young buck to man up a bit

[bobandweave]

32 minutes ago, dyst said:

TP is a QB who became a WR once he was already in the NFL for a few years. Expect drops from him. That's who he is, it's what he does. Some fans get carried away thinking he was going to replace Jackson.

 

Been saying that myself all off season. No one can replace DeSean Jackson. Pryor's ADP of 3rd round is just maddness, I've been in 20 real drafts this year and have yet to align myself with him at that price. If this guy is expected to drop passes then limit how often he's targets and make Crowder the primary receiver on routes. No reason to make a guy dropping passes your primary target

[justice98]

4 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Been saying that myself all off season. No one can replace DeSean Jackson. Pryor's ADP of 3rd round is just maddness, I've been in 20 real drafts this year and have yet to align myself with him at that price. If this guy is expected to drop passes then limit how often he's targets and make Crowder the primary receiver on routes. No reason to make a guy dropping passes your primary target

 

I think the hope was that between Pryor and Doctson, you had 2 guys who were capable of getting downfield.  Not that either one was a direct replacement by themselves for what DJax brought.  Pryor and Doctson are different types of WRs than DJax.  Mainly, more versatile.

[NoCalMike]

WRs getting wide open is not an attribute that only D-Jax holds though.  WRs break open for long TD's all the time, every single week in the NFL.  I think we get too hung up on Jackson's highlight catches and ignore the fact that his overall production is pedestrian by #1 WR standards.  For my money, Garcon is the bigger loss because what the current WR core is showing is that they need a "Mr Reliable" type of WR out there over a once-a-game highlight kind of WR.  Between Pryor, Crowder, & Doctson (crossing fingers on him) the physical ability to make those highlight reel plays is there, it'll happen.....what I am more nervous about is on the 3rd & 3/4/5/6's, when you need a WR to run a sharp slant and hold onto the ball if it isn't placed perfectly for the 1st down conversion. 

[skinny21]

My thinking as well, Justice.  Doctson and Pryor have enough speed to stretch defense's, plus the size to win on jump balls.  On top of that, they can run the shorter routes, provide a much larger catch radius, and block better than Jackson did.  

Obviously, if Doctson doesn't play and Pryor maintains a high drop rate, then the team will have made a huge mistake.  With that said, I can't sit here and second guess their decision.  They took a risk, but the upside was eye popping, and the downside of keeping Jackson was spending big money on an aging player.  

 

Okay, I guess I can criticize them a bit... the decision to not re-sign Garçon and Jackson came before Pryor's signing.  Guess they had faith in Doctson becoming a stud, Jamison's ability to play outside, Grant's abilities, and Harris' development... and that's another can of worms, lol.  

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

My thinking as well, Justice.  Doctson and Pryor have enough speed to stretch defense's, plus the size to win on jump balls.  On top of that, they can run the shorter routes, provide a much larger catch radius, and block better than Jackson did.  

Obviously, if Doctson doesn't play and Pryor maintains a high drop rate, then the team will have made a huge mistake.  With that said, I can't sit here and second guess their decision.  They took a risk, but the upside was eye popping, and the downside of keeping Jackson was spending big money on an aging player.  

 

Okay, I guess I can criticize them a bit... the decision to not re-sign Garçon and Jackson came before Pryor's signing.  Guess they had faith in Doctson becoming a stud, Jamison's ability to play outside, Grant's abilities, and Harris' development... and that's another can of worms, lol.  

The team's offense reminds me of SD in that they have Capable but injury prone WR (Williams, Allen), and an unknown at TE (Gates age Vs Reed's durability and two very solid back-ups in Henry vs Davis). I'd give the Skins the advantage in receiving depth by Chargers that win in RB. 

[dyst]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

WRs getting wide open is not an attribute that only D-Jax holds though.  WRs break open for long TD's all the time, every single week in the NFL.  I think we get too hung up on Jackson's highlight catches and ignore the fact that his overall production is pedestrian by #1 WR standards.  For my money, Garcon is the bigger loss because what the current WR core is showing is that they need a "Mr Reliable" type of WR out there over a once-a-game highlight kind of WR.  Between Pryor, Crowder, & Doctson (crossing fingers on him) the physical ability to make those highlight reel plays is there, it'll happen.....what I am more nervous about is on the 3rd & 3/4/5/6's, when you need a WR to run a sharp slant and hold onto the ball if it isn't placed perfectly for the 1st down conversion. 

Just to add to your post. Jackson is still the NFLs best (at least one the best) deep threats in the game. It's a huge loss. 

[Conn]

We are going to hate watching Desean light it up in TB this year, but that's just the way it is. Winston can throw a better deep ball than Cousins (imo--and not always), Evans is better than Garcon was, Howard will be a threat down the seam and pull attention away, their RB situation isn't any worse than ours, etc. He's got a more talented surrounding cast now, and he was really damn good even with us, when healthy. Desean is going to destroy this year. I'm not going to lie, I'm rooting for him individually. I want to keep seeing him rise through that all-time 40+ and 60+ yard TD list. He's a thrilling talent and one of the best ever in his niche role--not just due to his electric speed, but his routes, ball tracking ability and hands. 

 

I just hope Pryor loses the jitters he's had in the preseason and gives us something equally exciting to cheer for, in his own way. Its the best I can hope for.