How do you feel about the Receiving corps?

[I Love The Skins]

I just don't think we shouldn't worry about the WRs until  2 or 3 weeks into the regular season. Every #1 WR drops 2 or 3 passes in preseason and those teams fans don't panic.

[Spaceman Spiff]

In regards to Desean, I don't think we used him properly.  Sure he had some monster games but he also had games where he just didn't seem to be part of the gameplan, like one or two targets.  

 

That dude was a gamebreaker and if I'm the coach I'd constantly be thinking of new and creative way to get the ball in his hands.  Get it to him and get out of the way.  You can say that if he was on the field, teams would have to respect him as a deep threat and that's true.  But you'd have to respect him more if you actually went his way a little bit more than we actually did.

 

Run a reverse play, WR screen, deep balls.  I just don't think we really did enough to get him involved while he was here.  

 

In regards to how I'm feeling about the corps right now, not so good.  Pryor has a case of the drops which I'm expecting to go away but still it's a concern.  Doctson is Mr. Glass on steroids.  

 

I know that tonight's game is going to be a game where the starters don't play much but at this point I don't think you can afford that if you're Jay and Kirk.  The offense has been uninspiring at best and this team needs real time, game time reps to get their **** in order.  One of the popular themes that I've been hearing lately is that Kirk and Jay are slow starters....well, whatever.  Time to fix that, time to find a way not to be a slow starter.  Week 1 against Philly, none of us want to see a slow start with a loss.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 hours ago, Unbias said:

That's a bit of cherry picking because it's 'per season' average when we know he missed games. Let's look at the 'per game' production: 

 

DeSean as a Skin (40 games) = 67.55 YPG and 0.35 TD per game

Clark as a Skin (122 games) = 71.66 YPG and 0.48 TD per game

 

Clark is still better, but let's not act like DeSean wasn't good in the uni. 

 

Apples to oranges.  Back then Art Monk catching 100 passes was a really big deal, now we see it all the time.  So given the eras they played  Clark  was considerably better for a run first team where Jackson played on a team throwing 50 passes a game.  Besides DJax was fairly healthy, for him, when he was here.  And sorry, not playing is not a plus.

 

Bottom line is in today's NFL his numbers are similar to Torrey Smith, nothing special.

[Darrell Green Fan]

21 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

In regards to Desean, I don't think we used him properly.  Sure he had some monster games but he also had games where he just didn't seem to be part of the gameplan, like one or two targets.  

 

That dude was a gamebreaker and if I'm the coach I'd constantly be thinking of new and creative way to get the ball in his hands.  Get it to him and get out of the way.  You can say that if he was on the field, teams would have to respect him as a deep threat and that's true.  But you'd have to respect him more if you actually went his way a little bit more than we actually did.

 

Run a reverse play, WR screen, deep balls.  I just don't think we really did enough to get him involved while he was here.  

 

In regards to how I'm feeling about the corps right now, not so good.  Pryor has a case of the drops which I'm expecting to go away but still it's a concern.  Doctson is Mr. Glass on steroids.  

 

I know that tonight's game is going to be a game where the starters don't play much but at this point I don't think you can afford that if you're Jay and Kirk.  The offense has been uninspiring at best and this team needs real time, game time reps to get their **** in order.  One of the popular themes that I've been hearing lately is that Kirk and Jay are slow starters....well, whatever.  Time to fix that, time to find a way not to be a slow starter.  Week 1 against Philly, none of us want to see a slow start with a loss.  

 

I agree about the use of Jackson.  When Philly threw that quick screen DJax scared the crap out of me because we knew what he could do.  I have no idea why the Redskins didn't try to get the ball in his hands more often.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, I Love The Skins said:

I just don't think we shouldn't worry about the WRs until  2 or 3 weeks into the regular season. Every #1 WR drops 2 or 3 passes in preseason and those teams fans don't panic.

Perhaps there would be no panic if he didn't go out of his way to say he doesn't drop passes.  I hope it's a timing issue - chemistry with Kirk. Pryor even mentioned the ball not being in the right spot.  Kirk is not above some blame, even though every drop for some reason is always solely on the WR, no matter where the ball is, how hard it was thrown, was it thrown early, behind the WR etc. Maybe one day incompletions (INC) will be better documented - yeah that was a ****ty throw. Heck, we cannot even filter out INTs that were not the QBs fault.

 

@Spaceman Spiff Agreed - late in the year I think both DJ and Garcon had to speak up to get looks from Kirk. I will say this, perhaps Jay kept a lighter workload for DJax to get him to last 16 games. But I always loved a deep ball early in a game, we hear about stretching the D. It gets in the DBs and DCs head real quick, but it's like Jay chalked it up as a very likely INC, and didn't bother. Look at any INC and I think the deep ball INC has the most positive effects.  He went 2 months without a 100 yd game and was targeted 10 times only 2 times all year. He is the leagues premier big play WR. That box is going to be packed tight if Pryor cannot stretch the field for us - expect tough sledding for Kelley early (which may lead us to Perine sooner).

[RandyHolt]

40 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Bottom line is in today's NFL his numbers are similar to Torrey Smith, nothing special.

Torrey had 20 catches last year, 33 the year before. And was likely the featured WR.

 

Perhaps the positive effects that DJax has on the game, are not always seen in his numbers.

 

If you are a DC, do you tell your free to ignore if DJax goes deep, and leave the corner 1 on 1? Or will doubling that be a high priority. Will that affect the other WRs ability to get open, at all?

 

There is one reason why Josh Doctson has a higher career avg than DeSean Jackson. And it's because of DeSean Jackson. Go watch his 57 yard catch again, and keep an eye on the DBs in panic mode with DJ going deep.

 

DeSean Jackson is a DC's nightmare.

 

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

34 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

@Spaceman Spiff Agreed - late in the year I think both DJ and Garcon had to speak up to get looks from Kirk. I will say this, perhaps Jay kept a lighter workload for DJax to get him to last 16 games. But I always loved a deep ball early in a game, we hear about stretching the D. It gets in the DBs and DCs head real quick, but it's like Jay chalked it up as a very likely INC, and didn't bother. Look at any INC and I think the deep ball INC has the most positive effects.  He went 2 months without a 100 yd game and was targeted 10 times only 2 times all year. He is the leagues premier big play WR. That box is going to be packed tight if Pryor cannot stretch the field for us - expect tough sledding for Kelley early (which may lead us to Perine sooner).

 

35 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I agree about the use of Jackson.  When Philly threw that quick screen DJax scared the crap out of me because we knew what he could do.  I have no idea why the Redskins didn't try to get the ball in his hands more often.

 

@RandyHolt agreed, maybe Jay did try to get him to 16 games last year.  Still, it was frustrating not to see them to go to him more often.  

 

And yes, that quick screen was deadly.  If he got a block or two, he could easily take it to the house.

 

And no one tracked a deep ball better.

 

One of the coolest things I've seen while covering games for ES was the Seattle game a couple years ago.  It was a prime time game, Monday night or Sunday night football....anyway, the Skins were on their 40 or so.  A bit too far away from me to shoot, I didn't have my camera up and ready, I was more or less watching...when Kirk drops back, rolls out and winds up and heaves it DEEP.  And no Skins receiver had gotten that deep, I was like WTF...Who is he throwing it to?  Where's he throwing it?  

 

WHOOOSH three feet in front of me, Desean blows past on a fly route right on the out of bounds line with a Seahawks defender right behind him.  It wasn't Richard Sherman, Sherman actually tried to come over the top and provide coverage but it was too late.  Complete pass, Desean caught it pretty much in stride, stumbled a bit, took it into the end zone.  Had time to get the camera up and got some not so great photo of it but I was just blown away by the whole thing.   I have never seen anyone that fast in person before.  

 

http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/WATCH-DeSean-Jackson-60-yd-TD-Catch/3bc1a917-bbff-4d7b-aa33-93b670ab29df

 

 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

@Spaceman Spiff Awesome story, and bonus points for the vid backup

 

I am going to keep an eye on Kirk's deep balls this year - they seem more on a rope than early in his career. That had THE perfect loft and you could see DJax accelerate to get it leaving Cam and your camera in the dust. 

 

I wonder if all the other WR's had an easier time of it after that. I will say this, I am sure their DC scrapped that play call for the rest of the game. Any time teams try to get cute with coverage on DJ, it seems more likely that they fail. You have to jam him / tight man, and help over the top. 

[skinsmania123]

I just have a feeling Pryor could become a problem if he continues to drops balls and decides it is because it was not placed properly.  He dropped some sure passes from Cousin's.  Most players just do not say anything. I think Pryor is a talker.   I just hope my gut feeling about him is wrong that he may have diva qualities lurking. Hopefully he can be the sure receiver he bills himself as.

 

    As much as I think Jackson is a rare talent that was not given the ball enough the bigger mistake by the FO was letting Garcon go IMO.    I mean sure we have Doctson but there is a fragility factor there because he just can't stay on the field.  It is always something.  Garcon is so damn tough.  Then you have some people, particularly Gruden, excited about the potential of Grant but it never translates over to games.  He frustrates me.  Hell on a couple of passes to him here in the preseason two more yards, three more yards he is at the marker and we have a first down.  He just seems to miss the marker and I just think those are rookie mistakes. He is a game failure. And anyone says you play like you practice would be wrong with regards to Grant.  

 

 Crowder is awesome and consistent same with Davis. Cousin's needs to focus more on them to get a rhythm going especially if he can change the play at the line of scrimmage.  Hopefully Cousin's can loosen up a bit.  And of course Reed is an exceptional talent but you are not going to get 16 games out of him.  I would have loved to see Niles Paul get a few more looks this preseason.  Remember before his injury how fantastic he looked?   And there is this kid Hazel(?) I think is his name.  They should keep him.  He has really good hands and field vision.  Saw that when he played with McCoy.  

 

 

[OVCChairman]

9 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I just have a feeling Pryor could become a problem if he continues to drops balls and decides it is because it was not placed properly.  He dropped some sure passes from Cousin's.  Most players just do not say anything. I think Pryor is a talker.   I just hope my gut feeling about him is wrong that he may have diva qualities lurking. Hopefully he can be the sure receiver he bills himself as.

 

  

 

 

Pretty sure Pryor was asked about the drop and he took the blame stating it was a little early, but he tried to run before he completed the catch and he dropped it.  Has he come out and said anything negative about ball placement? 

[RandyHolt]

@skinsmaniaGreat post. Interesting take on Pryor. It is rare to hear a WR talk about ball placement being off. Now mind you, given control of a stat sheet I would pin many drops on QBs for expecting a WR to always save the day. But inaccurate passes however subtle are expected and accepted as the norm. Meanwhile, you hear about how the WR HAS to have perfect precision in all of his routes; perfect footwork timing, hips, turning hand placement, locating the ball etc... it just seems its all pinned on the WR, which is not fair.

 

Guess what, Pryor was a former QB. He knows damn well QBs **** up too.  Kirk has been off and there is no sugar coating it. If a WR says what we all see, yeah it's still nothing he should say - but it was at least somewhat subtle.  I think he is growing frustrated from not having any chemistry at all with Cousins in games, and Cousins being a hair off.  I think someone needs to tell him Kirk starts slow. 

 

Pryor seems very driven, and in part because of that is overthinking things, feeling the pressure, but obviously wants to do well and is very motivated.  I just hope that Jay and Kirk all agreed the pass was off, and that wasn't Pryor just saying that to save his ass. If Kirk is missing on his ball placement or timing consistently, it sure seems expected that eventually a WR is going to crack and say something about it. Just gimme the damn ball. WRs are a unique bunch - if the QB can't get them the ball guess what - they don't get paid. You certainly see QBs holler at WRs for errors in their routes. Perhaps in the eyes of a former QB, QBs are not above scrutiny, but it best be kept out of media to keep our safe haven here, safe.

[OVCChairman]

Did Pryor come out and say something about ball placement that i missed? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Pryor has been ripped by former college and NFL teammates for being arrogant, questionable personality characteristics, etc. in the past.  Perhaps that's guys whining over spilled milk or there is some substance to it. 

 

From everything I've seen he appears to be a hard worker that is dedicated to his craft.  Perhaps that stuff was true and he's humbled and matured since moving on from the dream of being a QB.

[Gregpeck99]

I think Pryor, Doc and Hazel need to play the entire game tonight!

[Spaceman Spiff]

14 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said:

I think Pryor, Doc and Hazel need to play the entire game tonight!

 

While I agree, Doctson will come out with a hangnail that'll keep him out for 3-4 weeks. 

[RandyHolt]

26 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Did Pryor come out and say something about ball placement that i missed? 

I doubt it. He said the something like "the ball was a little early/off" or something similar, when talking about one of his drops. I think he came out of his break and the ball was on him quicker than it should have been, or that he was expecting.  I doubt it even got back to Kirk.

 

 

I am going to go ahead and assume I am the only one seeing Kirk throwing the ball with much more velocity than I remember. Maybe his arm is fresh, or Jay told him to start firing it, perhaps (speculating) expecting tighter coverage with our new fleet of unproven WRs. No DJax, stretching the field making it easier for everyone else.

[skinsmania123]

40 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Pretty sure Pryor was asked about the drop and he took the blame stating it was a little early, but he tried to run before he completed the catch and he dropped it.  Has he come out and said anything negative about ball placement? 

He called him on the ball placement though.  I want to be careful here because I honestly like the guy's potential but that is how I took it when I heard him speak.   I have made it clear that I am not a big Cousin's fan BUT I think he has thrown some decent balls Pryor's way and let's face the facts our O line has not helped Cousin's at all this preseason. He has very little time it seems when last year he had time to set and throw.  They have to do their part to help him establish some rhythm especially if you know he tends to start slow. 

[OVCChairman]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/08/28/this-terrelle-pryor-kirk-cousins-pairing-might-need-a-little-time/?utm_term=.68f7f6694b25

 

Quote

“It is what it is. A dropped ball? I mean, who cares? It happens,” Pryor said after the game when asked if he was disappointed. “When I came out [of the break], the ball’s out a little early. I saw it coming in flight and then as soon as it hit my hands, I started looking because I wanted to go, catch the ball and run. And that’s usually what happens when you don’t look the ball all the way in and you look to run instead. So that’s what I’m saying: It happens. We’ll grow from that and get better.”

I don't think this is calling him out, just saying it was out earlier then expected, then took the blame.  Unless this isn't the instance that's being referenced.  Sounds to me like he's taking responsibility...

[RandyHolt]

3 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/08/28/this-terrelle-pryor-kirk-cousins-pairing-might-need-a-little-time/?utm_term=.68f7f6694b25

 

I don't think this is calling him out, just saying it was out earlier then expected, then took the blame.  Unless this isn't the instance that's being referenced.  Sounds to me like he's taking responsibility...

Call out is perhaps too strong and I could edit my post, but it sure seems very rare to ever hear a WR ever talk about a pass being off, in any way.  I certainly cannot recall it, the WR always just says I should have had it.

[OVCChairman]

The way I read that is "the ball came out early" not "Kirk threw it before he was supposed to."  The ball can come out early for a number of reasons... pressure from the defense or DB coverage being examples.  I don't know, I just don't see that as much a reference to ball placement, as I do him explaining the play. 

[RandyHolt]

13 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

The way I read that is "the ball came out early" not "Kirk threw it before he was supposed to."  The ball can come out early for a number of reasons... pressure from the defense or DB coverage being examples.  I don't know, I just don't see that as much a reference to ball placement, as I do him explaining the play. 

True, he didn't say why the ball came out early. But as I remember the play, it was a simple slant, and Kirk was not forced to pass it early. 

 

Again, my theory.  I think Kirk threw it on a rope, and Pryor wasn't expecting that velocity. Not only is it "early", it's a freaking missile. Kirk in live fire gunning it a little harder than practice. Our OL has been shaky after all, and Kirk has taken shots. I just do not recall seeing Kirk throwing that hard to Garcon on slants, otherwise maybe Pierre would have dropped one too. But if there were a time for Jay to tweak Kirk's delivery speed etc, it's with new WRs. Maybe the Nats can loan us their speed gun.

 

Ok we need the games to start and distract us, we are over analyzing a preseason incompletion.  Meanwhile the entire offense looks shaky.

[JaxJoe]

On 8/30/2017 at 9:29 AM, Darrell Green Fan said:

Trading him would be a terrible mistake. But we heard the same thing about Cravens ruffling the feathers of teammates who thought he should have been playing last year.  I thought SM valued toughness in his "football players". 

 

[OVCChairman]

HAHA i'm with you man, i'm ready for real football again.. We get all amped up, then we have the preseason to nitpick and dissect everything about meaningless football games.   

[SkinssRvA]

He's referencing timing not ball placement.  Kirk was early, Pryor was late.  Both are true, but bottom line is Pryor dropped the ball.  He gets a negative when his grade sheet comes the next day, that's for sure.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

Won't be the first time or last time that a ball comes out early. Get it together.