New GM search

[elkabong82]

22 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Brown sort of took a shot at the organization (surprise surprise, who doesn't, right?) when he signed with the Browns after he left here. 

 

Said something to the effect of "my title now [with the Browns] represents what I was actually doing with the Skins". I remember that because I hated to read it. 

 

It's possible he may not have meant it as a shot, but it was one in my mind. 

 

Under Shanny, Brown was director of player personnel and Shanny was team president. Brown went to Cleveland to be VP of player personnel. After Shanny, it seems we did add Santos as director to replace Brown when he left a few months later, but we haven't had a VP of player personnel. In fact, just a quick search of Pats and Steelers, two highly regarded FOs, neither has that VP position either. 

 

Sounds like Brown wanted a better title because of the workload he was doing. Perhaps that workload has reduced since Shanny left because we don't have a head coach also acting as president and GM. 

 

Brown has been with them for 2 drafts now, and both were good, neither great. Their roster building has left a lot to be desired though. Personally I'd rather us stay in house and go with Williams or Santos than go with Brown. Some of those drafts under Shanny weren't great either. But Brown has had hits and isn't bad either. I just think we may have better options in house.

[Conn]

None of those guys would be top-20 options for me if I thought us hiring a good option was a realistic enough possibility to warrant the time, effort, and emotional investment it would require to make a list. 

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

He left the Brown in less that 2 years.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Lombardi_(American_football)

Damn - those are 2 HORRIBLE drafts!!

[TSO]

1 hour ago, elkabong82 said:

Brown has been with them for 2 drafts now, and both were good, neither great. Their roster building has left a lot to be desired though. Personally I'd rather us stay in house and go with Williams or Santos than go with Brown. Some of those drafts under Shanny weren't great either. But Brown has had hits and isn't bad either. I just think we may have better options in house.

 

The Browns actually fired him (along with their GM at the time Ray Farmer and Executive Chief of Staff Bill Kuharich) in January 2016. I believe he only was there, technically speaking, for one full offseason in 2015: 

 

Quote

Morocco Brown

Brown (pictured above) served as the vice president of player personnel of the Browns(fittingly enough) before getting fired earlier this month. Prior to joining Cleveland after the 2014 NFL Draft, Brown had spent six seasons in Washington from 2008-2013 as the director of pro personnel. Shortly after leaving Washington, NFL insider Jason La Canfora reported that Brown is primed to be a general manager one day. It was believed the Redskins made a mistake by not elevating him higher.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2016/1/28/10865324/philadelphia-eagles-personnel-executive-howie-roseman-nfl-browns-mark-dominik-morroco-brown

 

The Browns have arguably been even more dysfunctional than us in terms of keeping a Front Office in tact. 

 

I feel bad for the guy, really, going from the Skins to the Browns, lol. I just pointed out how he viewed the title he had here and how reflective it was of what he was doing.  I simply don't accept that as ever being a good thing for anyone to say about an organization they part with. 

 

I wasn't advocating for Brown.

 

As for your preferences, I personally don't think Williams is qualified. Maybe Santos. But I'm not exactly fond of anyone in house who has been with the team for years and had yet to be elevated beforehand. It wouldn't give me a sense that it's a legitimate title with real power. But I'd be willing to be proven wrong on that, it'd just take time. 

 

I think it's fair, at this point, to desire an outside hire from a respectable organization that most around the NFL view as legit. It's hard to trust this FO with anything else, unfortunately. That's not being negative. It's an undeniable fact that they've been unstable and continue to be with the recent McCloughan firing. 

 

We only recently had someone with a traditional GM title (a massive shame in and of itself), of which was supposed to include final say over personnel, and I'd like to see that remain the case because that's how most successful organizations operate. 

 

I don't subscribe to the idea some have posited that it's becoming more obsolete and now it's about the Team President. I'd like the guy in charge of personnel to be the best talent evaluator in the building whose time is spent focused on that. I'd also like that title to be occupied by the same person for more than a couple of years. I know, I'm just a crazy nutcase for such thoughts.  

[elkabong82]

1 minute ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

 

 

I think it's fair, at this point, to desire an outside hire from a respectable organization that most around the NFL view as legit. It's hard to trust this FO with anything else, unfortunately. That's not being negative. It's an undeniable fact that they've been unstable and continue to be with the recent McCloughan firing. 

 

We only recently had someone with a traditional GM title, of which was supposed to include final say over personnel, and I'd like to see that remain the case because that's how most successful organizations operate. 

 

I don't subscribe to the idea some have posited that it's becoming more obsolete and now it's about the Team President. I'd like the guy in charge of personnel to be the best talent evaluator in the building. I'd also like that title to be occupied by the same person for more than a couple of years. I know, I'm crazy.  

 

Wow, didn't realize that about Brown.

 

I want an outsider too. I only brought up our current guys to say I'd rather us look inside than bring one back. Ideally we get an outsider who's ready to take the spot. Though Mayock intrigues me.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Grab somebody from the Packers tree. 

[Wyvern]

I'd say no to Doug Williams,to Morrocco Brown, or  Schaffer, or Campbell, or an unproven (albeit talented) candidate such as Mayock. I feel the Skins really need to look outside their organization for a skilled, proven football executive with player personnel evaluating expertise.  
 
Below are some possible candidates I'd suggested earlier to include in the Skins search for a GM .  These come from teams - mainly from teams that  seem to build well through the draft: I'd ranked them in order of preference.  I'd be curious to get  some ES opinions -- because I felt they were reasonable candidates for consideration as the next Skins GM.  ....Your thoughts?
 
Omar Khan –currently the Steelers' vice president of football and business administration.  I suspect he's benefited from working under with Colbert -- a great collector of NFL talent. ( In 13 seasons with the organization Khan/Colbert in have drafted and signed or extended 23 Pro Bowl Players.). A real worker bee, by reputation, and someone who's worked his way up the ranks.
 
Jimmy Raye III -- currently the Indianapolis Colts vice president of football operations – I like how the Colts continue to rebuild -- they were in much worse shape than the Skins in 2012, before they drafted Luck.  Indy's become a reliably competitive franchise, and seems to do fairly well in the draft and free agency.  Also Raye's skill set seems like he'd fit with Allen's way of wanting to work.  Raye bio seems to indicate he's a very smart executive too. 
 
Trent Kirchner -- Currently the Seahawks FO co-director of player personnel. Another of the Seahawk's vaunted player personnel brain trust.  Either Seahawks' co-director would do, but Kirchner looks willing to try even the lowliest of franchises -- so why not the Skins? 
 
As an outlier, perhaps Skins might also interview the Giants FO's director of player evaluation, Marc Ross.  He's a little further down my list, but the Giants do tend to field fairly decent players -- and their drafts aren't that bad. 

 

Any comments on these suggestions?

[Skinsinparadise]

I like what they did in the draft but next time they aren't going to have 6 months or so of draft and FA work from Scot to set them all up.  If they promote from within I'd rather it be Eric Schaffer.  I love guys who are considered at the top of their game. He's not a personnel guy but he's arguably one of the best at managing caps.  Or I can even live with Scott Campbell who has had his moments and I presume has learned from Scot.  But there is nothing I hear about Doug being the best at anything FO wise aside from being a great person.   And Paulsen said he's heard from multiple people Doug isn't much of a personnel guy but a great person.  It's more or less what Scot told that person he talked to at the gas station, good guy, doesn't know much about personnel -- and Scot thought they need to hire a personnel guy.  if that conversation happened. 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-draft-notes-why-teams-disliked-kizer-how-49ers-snaked-skins-for-a-qb/

Redskins leaning on a legend

The Redskins have very quietly had a very nice free agency period and I love what they did in the draft, not forcing anything and grabbing some excellent talent from Alabama that fell to them in the first and second round. They have done this without a general manager, having released Scot McCloughan after the combine, and while reaching out to other top candidates who have largely said no thanks.

I continue to hear the most likely course for the team will be promoting personnel exec Doug Williams to a more senior role overseeing the football operations staff. It could include -- and should include -- promotions for others like rising scout Alex Santos and chief cap guy/contract negotiator Eric Schaffer.

Team president Bruce Allen loves dipping back into the team's lore, and Williams is one of the iconic figures in Redskins history from his days as a Super Bowl winning quarterback, and he has been a stalwart for the team in the personnel department as well. Many around the league believe the Skins never really wanted to hire from outside for a new GM anyway -- hence the modest compensation they were advertising around to potential candidates -- and Allen in effect would continue to be the top man in charge, with him controlling the purse strings for owner Dan Snyder.

It would make sense to announce the promotion or promotions sooner rather than later, and Williams is plenty deserving. Doing anything other than that would be a surprise to me at this point based on what I heard leading into the draft. This group has functioned quite well the past few months since the organization's ham-handed handling of McCloughan's departure, doing so under duress and pressure.

[NewCliche21]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like what they did in the draft but next time they aren't going to have 6 months or so of draft and FA work from Scot to set them all up.  If they promote from within I'd rather it be Eric Schaffer.  I love guys who are considered at the top of their game. He's not a personnel guy but he's arguably one of the best at managing caps.  

 

I rarely part from you, meaning you're usually right ( ), but I can't get on board with this.  If Schaffer is really good at the cap/contract side, then why move him?  I feel like there's the players guy and the numbers guy, and we have one of the best in the biz at the latter.

 

It somewhat reminds me of the argument about kicking Williams inside and letting Nsekhe take over at left tackle.  I can see the point, but if you have the best at his position, then why move him and let someone "pretty good" or "decent" take that position?

 

I do agree with everything else you wrote, though.  I don't want anyone in the FO unless my arm were twisted and it had to be Campbell.  I am firmly against Doug Williams taking that role or Bruce Allen remaining in it.  I want to go A+ outside the organization even if that means throwing a ton of money at the guy to lure him here.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I rarely part from you, meaning you're usually right ( ), but I can't get on board with this.  If Schaffer is really good at the cap/contract side, then why move him?  I feel like there's the players guy and the numbers guy, and we have one of the best in the biz at the latter.

 

It somewhat reminds me of the argument about kicking Williams inside and letting Nsekhe take over at left tackle.  I can see the point, but if you have the best at his position, then why move him and let someone "pretty good" or "decent" take that position?

 

I do agree with everything else you wrote, though.  I don't want anyone in the FO unless my arm were twisted and it had to be Campbell.  I am firmly against Doug Williams taking that role or Bruce Allen remaining in it.  I want to go A+ outside the organization even if that means throwing a ton of money at the guy to lure him here.

 

If it were up to me, I'd want to hire from without.  But if there is anything to the notion that Bruce wants someone who doesn't rock his boat -- then the card at hand is they will hire from within.  I am ok with Campbell over Schaffer.  I'd hate the idea of Doug Williams.  I find it interesting that part of the charm of hiring him according to beat reporters is that fans will eat up the Doug hire for nostalgia reasons among other things.   
 

Maybe so with the more causal fan?  It's hard for me to believe the hardcore fans are clamoring for Doug in that role.  Doug's whole FO career as far as I can tell is Bruce driven.  He's not a name I ever hear as a hot commodity around the league.

[NewCliche21]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If it were up to me, I'd want to hire from without.  But if there is anything to the notion that Bruce wants someone who doesn't rock his boat -- then the card at hand is they will hire from within.  I am ok with Campbell over Schaffer.  I'd hate the idea of Doug Williams.  I find it interesting that part of the charm of hiring him according to beat reporters is that fans will eat up the Doug hire for nostalgia reasons among other things.   
 

Maybe so with the more causal fan?  It's hard for me to believe the hardcore fans are clamoring for Doug in that role.  Doug's whole FO career as far as I can tell is Bruce driven.  He's not a name I ever hear as a hot commodity around the league.

 

The whole damned thing is Bruce-driven.  I was so excited about GMSM, but the more I think about it the more I think it was always going to be doomed from the start.  Either it worked, or we got a guy whose drinking was an easy way of saying, "Well you can't say I didn't try to get an outside guy, let's stick with someone we know [who will be a figurehead while I run the show (into the ground)]."

 

A problem that Allen and Snyder are going to run into is that Williams is from 30 Super Bowls ago (in case you were trying to feel old), and that means that any fan around 35 or younger isn't going to appreciate the nostalgia.  I don't trust Bruce to make this GM decision.

 

How do other owners who realize that they don't know football decide who to hire?  Snyder needs to follow that blueprint.

[wilco_holland]

I don't know how much Scot did but I kinda like what we do now. I love how Jay is into the process. I think it's a big plus when coach is big part. He then knows what will come into the locker room and the strenght and weakness of players. 

[Burgold]

The draft was so successful that I think they can get away with a stay of execution (meaning not hiring outside personnel) If you do elevate Scott or Doug then what is really important is to find some hot and upcoming scout to fill out that loss. As the defacto GM, our selection won't be able to do as much onsite scouting and as we heard from Scott's interview that's an invaluable resource.

 

So, even if we don't hire an outside GM I hope we do add to the talent side of our scouting department. We need as many talented eyeballs as we can get.

[NewCliche21]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

The draft was so successful that I think they can get away with a stay of execution (meaning not hiring outside personnel) If you do elevate Scott or Doug then what is really important is to find some hot and upcoming scout to fill out that loss. As the defacto GM, our selection won't be able to do as much onsite scouting and as we heard from Scott's interview that's an invaluable resource.

 

So, even if we don't hire an outside GM I hope we do add to the talent side of our scouting department. We need as many talented eyeballs as we can get.

 

I don't see how this isn't a massive priority for any and every team.  Wouldn't you rather pay half a million more for the best scout team possible so you don't spend tens of millions for the wrong players?  I know there's armchair GM-ing, but this just makes too much sense.

[Burgold]

Just now, NewCliche21 said:

 

I don't see how this isn't a massive priority for any and every team.  Wouldn't you rather pay half a million more for the best scout team possible so you don't spend tens of millions for the wrong players?  I know there's armchair GM-ing, but this just makes too much sense.

I'm with you. I'm not completely sure if it's still true, but I once remember hearing that the Redskins had one of the smallest front offices in the NFL. I often thought to myself that was a part of the reason why we had so many bad drafts. We need boots on the ground... errrrr turf.

[Skinsinparadise]

Circuit Trainers: These candidates have been on the GM interview circuit before and remain on short lists with the NFL Advisory Committee and team owners. Last year Jon Robinson earned his shot as the GM of the Tennessee Titans after working the circuit in 2015.

 Kevin Abrams – assistant general manager – New York Giants

•    2 known interviews (NYG, 2007) and (DET, 2016)

Chris Ballard – director of football operations – Kansas City Chiefs

•    2 known interviews (CHI, 2015), and (TEN, 2016)

 Brian Gaine – director of player personnel – Houston Texans

•    5 known interviews (STL, 2012), (NYJ, 2013), (MIA, 2014), (CHI, 2015), (PHI, 2015)

Tom Gamble – assistant general manager – San Francisco 49ers

•    4 known interviews (STL, 2012), (JAX, 2013), (NYJ, 2013), and (SD, 2013)

Chris Grier – general manager* – Miami Dolphins

•    3 known interviews (NYJ, 2015), (PHI, 2015), and (MIA, 2016)

Omar Khan – vice president of football and business administration – Pittsburgh Steelers

•    4 known interviews (SEA, 2010), (STL, 2012), (NYJ, 2013) and (MIA, 2014)

Trent Kirchner – co-director of player personnel – Seattle Seahawks

•    2 known interviews (NYJ, 2015) and (DET, 2016)

Jimmy Raye III– vice president of football operations – Indianapolis Colts

•    4 known interviews (KC, 2009), (SEA, 2010), (CHI, 2012), and (SD, 2013)

Marc Ross – director of player evaluation – New York Giants

•    10 known interviews (SEA, 2010), (IND, 2012), (CHI, 2012), (JAX, 2013), (NYJ, 2013), (SD, 2013), (CAR, 2013), (MIA, 2014), (TB, 2014), (TEN, 2016)

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/front-office/2016/12/09/2017-nfl-general-manager-candidates/

 

 

 

 

 

[Gallen5862]

Should the Redskins consider hiring any of the Scouts that were fired by the Bills? The Gm for the Bills was also fired.

[Stadium-Armory]

I don't think there is a GM search going on.

[Conn]

29 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

I don't think there is a GM search going on.

 

Neither do I. Doug Williams will be promoted basically as a figurehead for the group think-tank, for better or worse. 

 

The article quoted above said "Williams is plenty deserving" of the GM job.

 

Uh...why? Nothing in his resume says he's qualified for this opportunity at a base level, nevermind "deserving" of it. I'm sure he's a nice guy but Williams continuing to get opportunities in football despite failing to progress or excel in any area is the definition of nepotism.

 

We're all high on a good offseason right now but this GM thing is what fans are going to come flying back to freaking out about in droves the moment we hit a rough patch this season. 

 

It's so predictable it hurts. 

[PapaLazarou]

To think that someone would be hired in the front office because of their name! Oh, wait...

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Neither do I. Doug Williams will be promoted basically as a figurehead for the group think-tank, for better or worse. 

 

The article quoted above said "Williams is plenty deserving" of the GM job.

 

Uh...why? Nothing in his resume says he's qualified for this opportunity at a base level, nevermind "deserving" of it. I'm sure he's a nice guy but Williams continuing to get opportunities in football despite failing to progress or excel in any area is the definition of nepotism.

 

We're all high on a good offseason right now but this GM thing is what fans are going to come flying back to freaking out about in droves the moment we hit a rough patch this season. 

 

It's so predictable it hurts. 

 

I think there is some reluctance from reporters to criticize Doug publicly and it make sense for reasons including him being an icon in DC.   Grant Paulsen hasn't been shy to criticize it as a potential pick but otherwise reporters seem to be gun shy but I haven't noticed a single reason as for why he's the guy aside from supposedly fans would love it and maybe its his time. 

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/after-solid-draft-dysfunction-redskins-park-thing-past

Sometime in the next few weeks the Redskins will name a new general manger. Perhaps it will be Scott Campbell, the current director of college scouting who has been working in the personnel side of the NFL for 30 years, including 16 years with the Redskins. It could be Doug Williams, who has been involved in both coaching and personnel in the 30 years since he was a Super Bowl hero for the Redskins.

Perhaps hiring from within is not ideal. While Campbell and Williams are both sharp and good at their jobs, it isn’t like either name comes up when another team is looking to interview GM candidates. The Redskins may be better served by casting a wider net in their general manager search.

Still, if the search turns out as expected, Campbell or Williams would be an acceptable general manager. The hiring of either would not scream dysfunction, just that they could do better.

So, has the dumpster fire been put out? While the correct answer is yes, there is no assurance that (to mix in another metaphor here) the train will stay on the tracks.

[I Love The Skins]

I don't take what JLC says too seriously. He has been wrong a lot about his information about the Skins in the past.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/after-solid-draft-dysfunction-redskins-park-thing-past

Sometime in the next few weeks the Redskins will name a new general manger. Perhaps it will be Scott Campbell, the current director of college scouting who has been working in the personnel side of the NFL for 30 years, including 16 years with the Redskins. It could be Doug Williams, who has been involved in both coaching and personnel in the 30 years since he was a Super Bowl hero for the Redskins.

Perhaps hiring from within is not ideal. While Campbell and Williams are both sharp and good at their jobs, it isn’t like either name comes up when another team is looking to interview GM candidates. The Redskins may be better served by casting a wider net in their general manager search.

Still, if the search turns out as expected, Campbell or Williams would be an acceptable general manager. The hiring of either would not scream dysfunction, just that they could do better.

So, has the dumpster fire been put out? While the correct answer is yes, there is no assurance that (to mix in another metaphor here) the train will stay on the tracks.

 

Any reporter saying what I've bolded here should have the balls to write an article titled "The Redskins Do Not Need a GM". Because a title change for someone in-house will not give them more power, will not clear up the power structure, and will not allow for more accountability in any way. It would be the exact situation that we have right now, and had before McCloughan was hired. So if that is "acceptable"...then have the cahones to argue that in your articles, local media.

 

They won't, because they'd get torn up, and because they'd be wrong. Which is why the bolded above is absolutely false, no matter how much the beat guys want to tip-toe around the issue and avoid ****ting on the guys already in the organization (especially when they're having a good offseason). 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

17 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

.....

 

It's so predictable it hurts. 

 

 

Relish this draft. 

 

Next year the amateurs are back running the whole process. 

 

Hail. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I saw it costs $75,000 to get Scot's board for the NFL draft.  What if we do a pool on the board, raise the money and one of us volunteers to slip it to Jay in the off season? 

 

Michael Silver‏Verified account @MikeSilver

McCloughan's private scouting company, Instinctive Scouting, already has two other NFL teams as clients. He is open for business.