pft.com bruce Allen won’t let Scot McCloughan talk to media

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

So Chris Russell didn't investigate?  He just pulled this stuff out of his butt?  I'm not a big fan of Russell but to claim everyone is just speculating without any evidence is again a bit unfair. 

 

What's your evidence that he did investigate?...Because the writers who DID wait to find out more info like Keim were reporting things Russell either didn't know, didn't find out, or just chose to ignore because it didn't fit his speculations. Oh, I'm sorry, his thorough, time-consuming investigations.

[Peregrine]

7 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

So Chris Russell didn't investigate?  He just pulled this stuff out of his butt?  I'm not a big fan of Russell but to claim everyone is just speculating without any evidence is again a bit unfair. 

Surely you are not so naive.  Have you lived in the world long?  Are you familiar with the media?  People lie and make things up all of the time, because controversy sells.  And people buy it, because drama is interesting.  Why do some people consider journalists to be the only humans who dont lie and cheat? If people would spend just a fraction of their time actually critically reading articles written by the media, they would find out how little truth there is in much of them. And its not much different to take the word of what you KNOW is an unreliable source and repeat it as fact, to then say later "oh, thats just what my source told me".

 

Thats why people like Keim stand out.

[Cooleyfan1993]

I just don't understand why mccloughan would be fired after the draft if the skins don't have any CONIRMED info on if he's drinking again. Which I highly doubt they do. His grandma died on February 6th. That can be pretty tough to handle for a lot of people, it's not unlrealistic for him to be at home with family in a tough time like that. 

 

Id be very angry if Snyder lets go of one of our best GM in I don't know how long, and keeps Bruce Allen. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm kind of out of steam on this, don't feel like arguing anymore.  I hope I am wrong and will gladly apologize, question is will you?  But I won't apologize for pointing out that missing the combine for a GM  has like never ever happened before so yeah it's a big deal. 

[Mr. Sinister]

 

 

 

Quote

 

Jeremy p0pp0n‏ @ChadwikoRCC 6m6 minutes ago

Still see many fans blaming media for current drama surrounding #Redskins. If things do get ugly in near future, same fans will be quiet. 

 

@Chadwiko Needs to spend more time in the states. WaPo would close down their sports dept before they walked back anything out of this.

 

As for me, im not petty enough for that. Two things i absolutely swear by are common sense, and owning my mistakes, or positions I've taken, when proven wrong.  . Many other people are as well. Its real easy to hide behind sources, speculation, and opinion pieces.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I'm kind of out of steam on this, don't feel like arguing anymore.  I hope I am wrong and will gladly apologize, question is will you?  But I won't apologize for pointing out that missing the combine for a GM  has like never ever happened before so yeah it's a big deal. 

 

I have nothing to apologize for.

 

- I never claimed anything about Scot other than I find it laughable that Allen's jealousy is the root of everything lol...

 

- I have said that many in the media quickly jumped on the speculation and added in their own, while few in the media like Keim and Lewis basically said this is potentially too serious a matter to comment on just yet (could be familly member passing, could be Scot back to alcoholism, could be another family crisis)...

 

What in that above is there to apologize for?

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

I have nothing to apologize for.

 

- I never claimed anything about Scot other than I find it laughable that Allen's jealousy is the root of everything lol...

 

- I have said that many in the media quickly jumped on the speculation and added in their own, while few in the media like Keim and Lewis basically said this is potentially too serious a matter to comment on just yet (could be familly member passing, could be Scot back to alcoholism, could be another family crisis)...

 

What in that above is there to apologize for?

 

What if what Russell reported turns out to be true? 

[SkinInsite]

14 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

And why did she ridicule the fan base again?...Why is she ridiculing anything, for that matter? You can write a blisteringly honest article about the Skins sucking without a single insult to be had. Oh, and in the middle of her "Redskins suck so I'm gonna insult everything associated with them whether it deserves it or not" article of the moment, she's getting all gooey over how good looking Mark Brunell and Jason Taylor are in those same articles.

 

Much like you feel the Skins get what they deserve from the press, some media members get what they deserve from the fan base. Sally has stunk as badly as the Redkins have. So why are any of us sticking up for her again?...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/29/AR2005112901478.html

 

Is this what people were pissed about? Seems fairly tame to me.

[Skinsinparadise]

53 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He was all alone (as far as I remember) with the Scot being sent home stuff.  Mike Jones (again, as I remember) came out fairly strong against that pretty quickly.

 

He was almost alone on that part of the report -- that story including Scot being sent home was a collaboration of him, Brain McNally and Grant Paulsen.  But I don't personally care about all the details -- I care about the bottom line which is whether Scot is indeed on the ropes/potentially a goner?  And Russell has some company in that department.  Jones for example disputes that he was sent home but instead contends his source tells him that Scot left -- and Jones is on board with the gist of the story which is that there are issues brewing with Scot/FO and he also thinks he's likely a goner.  Finley thinks he's likely a goner, too.      

 

From a fan point of view, I just care whether everything turns out fine with Scot or not.  Ultimately if these guys are right, it won't make me feel any better as to which version of the story is correct about Scot being on the ropes.  I am hoping all of these guys are wrong, not just Russell.   

 

I am going against the grain on the beat reporters about Kirk returning.  They said he's unlikely back.  I am betting they are wrong.  And I've posted to that effect.  As for Scot, I am still trying to sort through it but I wish that all I have to do is count out Russell's story as if he's out there on an island among his peers.   They are almost all talking about a potential break up.  I don't care if Russell's version of the break up story pans out versus Jones' version or whomever -- I want every version to be wrong.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

What if what Russell reported turns out to be true? 

 

What did he report to be true?

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

 

 

 

@Chadwiko Needs to spend more time in the states. WaPo would close down their sports dept before they walked back anything out of this.

 

As for me, im not petty enough for that. Two things i absolutely swear by are common sense, and owning my mistakes, or positions I've taken, when proven wrong.  . Many other people are as well. Its real easy to hide behind sources, speculation, and opinion pieces.

 

 

Could not agree more. My main point has been let's wait till we get actual facts and data before assuming that it's all true and that the team is all to hell.

 

I will also add, true or not, my bigger problem with the media is not the reporting of the stories. It's the horribly one-sided negative slant they put on everything. What happened to reporting the facts and let people make up their own minds? That hit piece in the wapo and the Gruden extension not mattering, was designed specifically to make people mad and talk down to anyone who dares support the team. Why write it that way? It's petty and condescending.

6 minutes ago, SkinInsite said:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/29/AR2005112901478.html

 

Is this what people were pissed about? Seems fairly tame to me.

 

No, it's more about this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins-jay-gruden-signed-a-two-year-extension-and-it-doesnt-matter/2017/03/05/050d2bba-01dc-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.383ab3c7d0a7

:

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He was almost alone on that part of the report -- that story including Scot being sent home was a collaboration of him, Brain McNally and Grant Paulsen.  But I don't personally care about all the details -- I care about the bottom line which is whether Scot is indeed on the ropes/potentially a goner?  And Russell has some company in that department.  Jones for example disputes that he was sent home but instead contends his source tells him that Scot left -- and Jones is on board with the gist of the story which is that there are issues brewing with Scot/FO and he also thinks he's likely a goner.  Finley thinks he's likely a goner, too.      

 

From a fan point of view, I just care whether everything turns out fine with Scot or not.  Ultimately if these guys are right, it won't make me feel any better as to which version of the story is correct about Scot being on the ropes.  I am hoping all of these guys are wrong, not just Russell.   

 

 

It matters to me.

 

If Scoit is gone due to it being best for HIM and his family, that speaks to a healthy culture in the Skins' front office. If Scot is gone because Allen is so jealous of the praise Scot gets--which really hasn't been all that much so far this offseason--then that speaks to a level of dysfunction that our best players would be wise to escape if they care at all about their careers.

[SkinInsite]

4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Could not agree more. My main point has been let's wait till we get actual facts and data before assuming that it's all true and that the team is all to hell.

 

I will also add, true or not, my bigger problem with the media is not the reporting of the stories. It's the horribly one-sided negative slant they put on everything. What happened to reporting the facts and let people make up their own minds? That hit piece in the wapo and the Gruden extension not mattering, was designed specifically to make people mad and talk down to anyone who dares support the team. Why write it that way? It's petty and condescending.

 

No, it's more about this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins-jay-gruden-signed-a-two-year-extension-and-it-doesnt-matter/2017/03/05/050d2bba-01dc-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.383ab3c7d0a7

:

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/03/05/the-timing-might-be-odd-but-extending-jay-gruden-is-the-right-call-for-the-redskins/

 

 

Oh look a positive outlook from WP along with the negative, you know giving people both sides.

[Riggo#44]

I will say this about the back and forth in this thread:

 

Anyone who thinks the Redskins deserve any benefit of the doubt, hasn't been paying attention for 20+ years.

Anyone who thinks the Post is objective in any way, shape, or form with the Redskins, hasn't been paying attention for 17+ years.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

It matters to me.

 

If Scoit is gone due to it being best for HIM and his family, that speaks to a healthy culture in the Skins' front office. If Scot is gone because Allen is so jealous of the praise Scot gets--which really hasn't been all that much so far this offseason--then that speaks to a level of dysfunction that our best players would be wise to escape if they care at all about their careers.

 

The Bruce is jealous of Scott drill is really Jerry Brewer's big angle not the Russell drill.  Russell is more focused on the mechanics of what's up and whose power is being elevated where he focused on Jay, and Doug Williams growing in power, etc.    The Bruce is jealous version strikes me strange -- Bruce is the dude who brought Scot into the fold so Scot's success is Bruce's success -- so Brewer's version sounds counter intuitive to me.   I am hoping that everything is fine.  I wouldn't be happy with any version of the story if Scot is gone.   The most comforting thing I've read so far is TK's version of events so for now I am banking on that.  

[RedBeast]

Defending Sally? Seriously?

[goskins10]

9 minutes ago, SkinInsite said:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/03/05/the-timing-might-be-odd-but-extending-jay-gruden-is-the-right-call-for-the-redskins/

 

 

Oh look a positive outlook from WP along with the negative, you know giving people both sides.

 

I simply answered a question for you. No need to be snide.

 

And just because they have one positive article out of every 100 or so does not mean anything - not to mention the first line is about the team being dysfunctional. He then also draws conclusions about the timing that are not fact - just his opinion, like that we lost out on Phillips and Bradley when neither were ever really serious about coming here for totally other reasons than Jay Gruden's contract - (Phillips cited lack of talent, Bradley had a previous personal commitment to another HC).

 

Most of the wapo articles have a very biased negative slant. Even when it appears positive there is a backhanded slap at the team.

 

Having said that Mike Jones has probably been the closest to fair, especially recently. Can you read the other article and not see that it's mostly just someone ranting? No new information - just whining and complaining.

[SkinInsite]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I simply answered a question for you. No need to be snide.

 

And just because they have one positive article out of every 100 or so does not mean anything - not to mention the first line is about the team being dysfunctional. He then also draws conclusions about the timing that are not fact - just his opinion, like that we lost out on Phillips and Bradley when neither were ever really serious about coming here for totally other reasons than Jay Gruden's contract - (Phillips cited lack of talent, Bradley had a previous personal commitment to another HC).

 

Most of the wapo articles have a very biased negative slant. Even when it appears positive there is a backhanded slap at the team.

 

Having said that Mike Jones has probably been the closest to fair, especially recently. Can you read the other article and not see that it's mostly just someone ranting? No new information - just whining and complaining.

 

Yeah it's an opinion piece, i happen to disagree. Extending your head coach shows stability no matter what.

 

But he's paid to give his opinion, pretty sure if the Skins win a playoff game all the columnist in WP will be very positive. Like how everyone did a 180 on KC.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

18 minutes ago, SkinInsite said:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/29/AR2005112901478.html

 

Is this what people were pissed about? Seems fairly tame to me.

 

That's one of about 20 she's written.

 

"At this point only the real burgundy-bleeders, the ones who sit in traffic to park in a littered pay lot and watch the Washington Redskins from the far reaches of the upper deck, who decorate their houses with Redskins door-knockers and table lamps, and their cars with antenna flags, believe that this can still be a deserving playoff team....[...] The trouble is that nothing in the Redskins' recent play would lead you to think they can do it. If you believe they can, you probably wear a Redskins belt buckle.

 

[...]Still, it's something for fans to hope for. And believing, after all, is the job of a die-hard, which is why you should take every drink from now to the end of the season from your Redskins mug while wearing your burgundy and gold necktie, or your Indian-head logo earrings."

 

Translation: only those people so overly-emotionally invested in the Redskins that they'll wear Redskins underwear and yell "Hail To The Redskins, baby!" out their car window at strangers still feel like there's a chance...they are the Lloyd Doblers of sports. The rest of us who are intellectual and objective understand the Redskins don't have a chance. But hey, if it gives you hope you just go put on that Skins belt buckle, buddy *thumbsup*"...

 

Don't believe me?...If her article had been written from a more positive position--one saying that the Redskins still have a legitimate chance, one that stated all the reasons and stats why the team is better than its record, that reemphasized that in the Skins 3-game losing streak, two of those losses were a literally last-second loss to the Bucs where Alscott did NOT cross the goal line on that 2-pt conversion and an overtime loss to the Chargers--if that had been her write-up's viewpoint and perspective, then all the comments about Redskins ties, belt buckles and earrings would sound like she's trying to tell the fan base to be MORE supportive of the team at a time when that support would really help. Read below. it's a re-write of what I quoted above:

 

"At this point all Redskins fans need to be real burgundy-bleeders, the ones who sit in traffic to park in a littered pay lot and watch the Washington Redskins from the far reaches of the upper deck, who decorate their houses with Redskins door-knockers and table lamps, and their cars with antenna flags,  and who believe that this can still be a deserving playoff team, because they certainly can....[...] There's a lot in the Redskins' recent play that should lead you to think they can do it. If you believe they can, wear a Redskins belt buckle.

 

[...]Still, it's more than just something for fans to hope for. And believing, after all, is not just the job of the die-hard but of all fans, which is why you should take every drink from now to the end of the season from your Redskins mug while wearing your burgundy and gold necktie, or your Indian-head logo earrings."

 

Using the exact same fan descriptors, the 2nd version sounds complimentary. You'd be fooling yourself if you think Jenkins was trying to compliment those fans who feel the Redskins had a realistic chance at the playoffs. I'm not going to go into all the ways she was wrong on how the team was playing...

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Again, I'd love to see a list of "made up stories" over the years that actually were, in fact, made up.

 

It's entirely possible that I'm mis-remembering. But it seems like everytime there is smoke, there is actually a raising dumpster fire taking place.

[SkinInsite]

I guess we'll just have to disagree, i see nothing wrong with what she has written. Hard to see the positive after a 6-10 season and a 5-6 start.  Half the people on this board were harsher before the miracle run.

 

Maybe I'm a naturally negative person but being a Skins fan all these years sure didn't help.

[Boss_Hogg]

So we're now talking about a 12 year old Sally Jenkins column?

 

 

[CRobi21]

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Again, I'd love to see a list of "made up stories" over the years that actually were, in fact, made up.

 

It's entirely possible that I'm mis-remembering. But it seems like everytime there is smoke, there is actually a raising dumpster fire taking place.

 

It's not about "made-up stories". It's about preferring to throw as much speculation out there as possible as quickly as possible in lieu of taking more time and digging up some facts first. It's about making a story into a speculationathon, which by definition will lead to chaos and confusion, then claiming the chaos and confusion is a result not of too much speculation but of team dysfunction...then topping it off with blaming the team for the press speculating so wildly.

 

I said this a long time ago about Sheehan on his radio show...back when we were rumored to be wanting Mariota in the draft. He starts saying basically the following about RG3 to whoever was his host partner back then:

 

"You know, if Griffin starts saying he feels disrespected by the Redskins wanting to draft Mariota, my god, just shut up and earn the spot. Stop acting like it should be handed to you...if you can't stand the competition you'll never become an NFL quarterback. So if I could, I would tell Griffin to stop talking and whining to the press and in his tweets, and just shut up and play!! My god..."

 

His on air partner noticed what I noticed and interrupted Sheehan to remind him and the audience: "Just to be fair, Griffin hasn't said one word about any of this or about Mariota..."

 

Sheehan's response? "No, but come on, you knowww what he's thinking, you knowww how he feels..."

 

Sheehan was arguing an imagined scenario and responding to it as if it actually happened, and then justifies doing so by claiming we all "know" it's true, no need to wait to see what Griffin actually says or does.

 

A LOT of the local media does this. And too large a segment of the Skins fan base runs with it and repeats it as if it's insider info being reported and not simply a media member speculating on something that he just knowwws is true.

[Koolblue13]

Who cares. Scot **** the bed last year. The Kirk situation couldnt of been handled worse. Gruden should of gotten his extension at the beginning of the off-season before a DC search.

 

He's got a good history of picking players and almost our entire team was a hole to fill two years ago. Maybe it was Scot, maybe it was making the decision to start Kirk over Bob that gave us success.

 

I'm glad I wont have to hear football players described as football players again. That's ****ing annoying. 

 

Without him we'd probably have drafted Williams and taken a guard in the second round like any other ****ing club would have.