goskins10 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 44 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I'm a huge SM fan and I'm very upset that this appears to be the end of the road for him in DC. If the rumors are true let's be honest, it was a risky hire. None of us wanted to admit that at the time, we were just so thrilled to have such a talented evaluator of football talent that we over looked the obvious. With that said his history here was only OK. It's too early to judge his drafts, Doc could turn into AJ Green. But Scherff at 5 was about as safe as it gets, Crowder was a really good pick and the rest is up in the air. As for his FA sure he signed second teir "low risk" players but there was a risk. That risk was they would fail, leaving the same hole to be filled and collectively they represented a lot of dead cap space. And that is exactly what happened with Pea and company. We have one of the highest dead cap figures in the league. For ever Vernon Davis or Ty N. there are 3-4 players like David Bruton and Chris Culliver. There is context here you ignored and you added a gross exaggeration. The total is only $8.7M. Not a huge number. Of that total, $2.5M is for Culliver who ended up being injured. Another $1.25M is for D Jackson which is not his contract. There is also $550,000 for Kory, again not his contract. So the bad signings part is only about $4.4M. Add to that with all the people he has signed only 3 including an injured Culliver resulted in dead cap. Not 3-4 players for every one that worked. That's a gross exaggeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, RedBeast said: Yeah bail on GMSM, it such an easy job and we have a great history and success with GMs here ...get this guy, he knows how to do it Or we can just bring this guy back: Since some are so quick to give up on Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 You should always be skeptical of 'reporters' who all the sudden tell you about all the stuff they 'knew' for months but for whatever reason never bothered to tell you until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said: As I said I'm a huge SM fan but an argument could be made that you are correct. I keep seeing posters say that SM is responsible or the Redskins relative success the past 2 years when the fact is the vast majority of the most productive players were already on the roster before he arrived. Cousins DJax Pierre Reed Trent, in fact 4/5 of the starting OL Chris Thomas Chris Baker Off the top of my head these along with Crowder, Scherff and Norman are the top players on this team in my opinion. Yep. The #5 overall (Who almost everyone else unanimously thought was a player at our biggest current hole) and the best CB in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 1 minute ago, bh32 said: Bruce Allen had a better 2014 draft than Scot has in the two years he has been here A. Scot's first draft hasn't even had 3 years yet to accurately judge it, so that's a ridiculous claim. B. Nevertheless, the 2015 draft class gave the team a much greater impact their rookie years than the 2014 draft class did. C. Scot's 2 drafts have been significantly impacted by injuries (Spaight, Jarrett, Tevin Mitchel, Doctson, Cravens, Daniels, Marshall). We have been lucky enough to avoid that with the 2014 draft picks. D. Trent Murphy was on PED's last year for his breakout season, so who knows how good he'll actually be going forward. Breeland has severely regressed. We really don't know what we actually have yet with Long - but he's proven to be serviceable so far. Grant is not a good WR. Moses is the only player we can legitimately feel great about going forward at this point. At least we have Scherff and Crowder to feel great about from the 2015 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 reading on twitter, i hear that GMSM will be fired after the draft or fired very soon?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, goskins10 said: There is context here you ignored and you added a gross exaggeration. The total is only $8.7M. Not a huge number. Of that total, $2.5M is for Culliver who ended up being injured. Another $1.25M is for D Jackson which is not his contract. There is also $550,000 for Kory, again not his contract. So the bad signings part is only about $4.4M. Add to that with all the people he has signed only 3 including an injured Culliver resulted in dead cap. Not 3-4 players for every one that worked. That's a gross exaggeration. We can argue the dead cap space figure all night but I do not have the time as dinner is ready. What should not be disputed is despite their relatively small contracts the fact is most of these players failed. Their failure not only cost them games (I'm talking to you David Bruton) but their failures left the exact same holes to be filled again. So not really sure how they can be defended, they were bad signings that hurt the team in a number of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I thought we had a plan, but I guess I was wrong. Good ole Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: A. Scot's first draft hasn't even had 3 years yet to accurately judge it, so that's a ridiculous claim. B. Nevertheless, the 2015 draft class gave the team a much greater impact their rookie years than the 2014 draft class did. C. Scot's 2 drafts have been significantly impacted by injuries (Spaight, Jarrett, Tevin Mitchel, Doctson, Cravens, Daniels, Marshall). We have been lucky enough to avoid that with the 2014 draft picks. D. Trent Murphy was on PED's last year for his breakout season, so who knows how good he'll actually be going forward. Breeland has severely regressed. We really don't know what we actually have yet with Long - but he's proven to be serviceable so far. Grant is not a good WR. Moses is the only player we can legitimately feel great about going forward at this point. At least we have Scherff and Crowder to feel great about from the 2015 draft. Your missing the point..Scot is not some super GM that some of you make him out to be..Allen and Shanahan have drafted and signed better players than scot has, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Yep. The #5 overall (Who almost everyone else unanimously thought was a player at our biggest current hole) and the best CB in the league. Spending the #5 pick on a guard is about as safe as it gets. It almost could not fail, hard to give him a lot of props for that. Norman fell in his lap and he jumped on it. It's not like he huddled up and put him as a name to target for weeks. No those players were named Pea, Reyes, Bruton etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Jay Gruden deserves more credit than Scot does..His offense has carried the team the past two years not Scots draft picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Just now, Darrell Green Fan said: We can argue the dead cap space figure all night but I do not have the time as dinner is ready. What should not be disputed is despite their relatively small contracts the fact is most of these players failed. Their failure not only cost them games (I'm talking to you David Bruton) but their failures left the exact same holes to be filled again. So not really sure how they can be defended. You stated specifically that for every FA that worked there were 3-4 that didn't and they were leaving us huge dead cap. I pointed out that that the fact is that only 3 players in total over 2 yrs actually are contributing to dead cap. Now you want to change the statement. As for the FAs not working - I actually agree more did not work out than did. But that was the point. He was never one to fill the team with FAs. It is with the draft. Those guys were placeholders. If they worked out as starters, great. But that's rare. And the reason the dead cap discussion is important is that with all the guys he brought in, only 3 left us with dead cap and 1 of those were injured. Also, what many who arte now saying he didn't do a very good job are ignoring is that he did a very good job of filling the backend of the roster. That's why the team had one of the best STs units the last 2 years as opposed to before. He was also able to get some guys off the street to help with the many, many injuries we had. For the 2nd straight year the Redskins started the most players in the secondary of any team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I still believe in SM said it a million times. But when posters are using injuries to excuse away bad players in Marshall, Spaight etc then it's time to eat dinner. Again they were late round picks so long shots for sure. But stop saying they didn't work out because of injury, that's really lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, bh32 said: Your missing the point..Scot is not some super GM that some of you make him out to be..Allen and Shanahan have drafted and signed better players than scot has, I'm not missing the point at all. You're moving the goal posts (and now including Shanny as well). No one has called Scot a "super GM", but he has been a better GM than Allen was. Scherff and Crowder are each better than any player Allen has drafted. Norman is better than any player Allen has signed. Shanahan had 4 seasons with the Redskins, so it would be a minor miracle for him not to have drafted any better players than McCloughan has in two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 What's sad is that the drama cited as the reason for issues between Scott and Bruce is Cullen Jenkins being cut and then brought back. I'm sure there is more to it than that but sure seems pathetic. It would be great if this was all some petty BS being blown up, but it certainly doesn't feel that way. Our best hope as fans is that Scott started drinking again and has been slipping at his craft. If this is really some ego/power play BS, my god- there is no hope for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I'm not missing the point at all. Scherff and Crowder are each better than any player Allen has drafted. Norman is better than any player Allen has signed. Shanahan had 4 seasons with the Redskins, so it would be a minor miracle for him not to have drafted any better players than McCloughan has in two. Not sure Norman is better than DeSean Jackson yet... in my opinion anyway, the best draft pics of the last 7 years are: 1) Trent Williams 2) Jordan Reed 3) Kirk Cousins 4) Brandon Scherff 4) Jamison Crowder (tie) 6) Ryan Kerrigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: Not sure Norman is better than DeSean Jackson yet... One is a top 5-10 CB. The other is a top 25-30 WR. I agree with your list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: What's sad is that the drama cited as the reason for issues between Scott and Bruce is Cullen Jenkins being cut and then brought back. Wait, I thought it was jealousy on Allen's part lol...Now it's Cullen Jenkins? Hoo, boy. Besides, do you really think a generic move like that would tear apart a team's front office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: One is a top 5-10 CB. The other is a top 25-30 WR. I agree with your list. Love the undervaluing of Jackson...not to mention the multitude of penalties Norman has brought to the team lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I'm not missing the point at all. You're moving the goal posts (and now including Shanny as well). No one has called him a "super GM", but he has been a better GM than Allen was. Scherff and Crowder are each better than any player Allen has drafted. Norman is better than any player Allen has signed. Shanahan had 4 seasons with the Redskins, so it would be a minor miracle for him not to have drafted any better players than McCloughan has in two. C'mon man Shanny and Allen were here together so there drafts are related..yeah drafting a tackle at #5 and then finding out he is a better guard in TC when they could of had Williams..lol such an awesome talent evaluator would not of made that mistake..i dont give a **** if he is the best guard ever. It was a ****ed up pick..Crowder is a good slot receiver but don't act like he is a top wr in the NFL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Love the undervaluing of Jackson...not to mention the multitude of penalties Norman has brought to the team lol... I agree with your list and also that Jackson is under-valued by some. But don't sleep on Norman. Many of those penalties were on reputation. Also, with any kind of help at all, I believe Norman will be much more disrupted. He was one of what maybe 3 or 4 players on the D that would start on another team? I am hoping they firm up the middle of the D allowing him to be a bit more aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Love the undervaluing of Jackson...not to mention the multitude of penalties Norman has brought to the team lol... How am I undervaluing Jackson? Also, yes I realize the penalties Norman has brought. I realize the INTs, passes deflected and forced fumbles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Wait, I thought it was jealousy on Allen's part lol...Now it's Cullen Jenkins? Hoo, boy. Besides, do you really think a generic move like that would tear apart a team's front office? Obviously, no. Hence why I said there has to be more to it than that but I've read the piece about Jenkins a few times now dating back to the original article we hoped to have no merit. That was kind of my point, that this stuff sounds so stupid it can't be true, yet a month later our GM isn't at the combine, at home in Northern VA, with his wife tweeting pix of his rings, while all signs and rumors point to an exit. It's bizarro world here and I'm convinced it's my fault for finally believing in the organization and telling anyone that would listen that things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsMayne Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I got no idea what the deal is with people. All weve gotten from the team is that scot will be back on the job as usual. The only people who have suggested something difference is the media. The same people who said we'd do a three way with the 49ers and cowboys, and suggested that the report was floated by bruce allen. Please. So I know it's dangerous to trust the team, but, i'm not too worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Somebody start a new thread about this. This one was started by an eagles fan and every post might as well be laughter aimed at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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