skinfan2k Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 25 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: We didn't have a franchise QB in 2014? Or did we have a QB who crapped the bed whenever he got an opportunity to start because he was throwing untimely INTs and worrying for his life behind our inept OL? You mean the force of Allen and Snyder to give RG3 every chance with Gruden. Year 1 of the system of Gruden too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 42 minutes ago, Master Blaster said: So it's merely coincidence that the first consecutive winning seasons in a decade coincide with Scot somehow being involved in the drafts which landed those players? Or we finally played our best QB and he and the coach were able to have 2 successful seasons Kirks the biggest reason we had back to back winning seasons, Scott still has a lot of work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: We didn't have a franchise QB in 2014? Or did we have a QB who crapped the bed whenever he got an opportunity to start because he was throwing untimely INTs and worrying for his life behind our inept OL? Have you bothered to take a look at the track record of other GMs when it comes to low cost FA signings and hitting on draft picks? I'm guessing not, or you would have a different perspective. Who has Scott drafted that is a better player than Reed, Williams, Cousins, or Kerrigan? Because those are players chosen under the "awful" Allen/Shanahan regime. So far in two Mccloughan drafts we have Scherff, Crowder and Cravens who appear to be good players. I guess we can give an honorable mention to Smith and an incomplete to Doctson (which I loved that pick by the way). But none of them are going to be the impact players that Allen drafted without Scott. We will have to see with Doctson I suppose. I guess we will just have to disagree. But I havent seen some super GM running the team the past 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Califan007 said: I'm pretty sure we should all expect McCloughan to no longer be with the team in the near future. Not sure why or what happened...I damn well guarantee it wasn't due to jealousy, ego, or the dropping then re-signing of Cullen Jenkins, though lol... - You keep him from representing you in front of the press because you know he won't be there much longer - You have him do his work away from the combine while you use this time to give more responsibilities to those people who will be there long past the draft - You fumble around giving reasons for him not being at the combine because, outside of saying "He won't really be here much longer" there's no good explanation you can give You've really been doing a great job trying to keep this thread medium. A rational beacon if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: You've really been doing a great job trying to keep this thread medium. A rational beacon if you will. Yeah, that's me...rational lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I'm not sure why you would disqualify ego from the equation. Jobs have been lost in all professions due to ego for centuries. NFL front offices are not immune to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooseneck Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 this is clearly a historic off season. no other team comes close. this must be one of the top winning off seasons of all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 3 hours ago, thesubmittedone said: Well said. I've come to the realization that it's next to impossible to hold a nuanced view here (or arguably anywhere on the internet) without being painted into a corner or having your thoughts overly simplified. It just sucks. It's with everything and every topic. In this case, you can say a million times how acknowledging some of those within the media's lack of proper reporting (and even give a myriad of examples be it a lack of sources cited, mixing opinion with fact but presenting it all as fact, exaggerations based off speculation and conjecture, etc...) DOES NOT negate acknowledging that, perhaps, something is awry and that the organization may be doing something wrong or has done something wrong. Both can be true. You don't have to be on either "side". No one can end up "right" here because no one has the entire friggin story. Yeah on this point for me -- I think the media has been especially obnoxious and out of line but I also think the Redskins PR staff royally botched quite a bit in terms of managing these stories. As for Scot, if these stories are true IMO its really sad for multiple reasons -- specific to this franchise what I would hate is Scot to me represents a novelty, a real personnel guy with a scouting background running the show. He represents the concept of building the team with an eye towards the future. Adding draft picks and securing cap space I know isn't sexy to a lot of fans nor is patiently allowing a plan to play out without panicking about hiccups along the way -- and it hasn't been sexy to Danny either over the years. But it looked like he finally bought in. I recall one of the stories written at the time of the hire was Bruce went to Danny are you going to be "patient" and got assurances that he would be. So yeah if we are back to the instant gratification days and lets allow guys who aren't full time personnel types run the show -- I'd hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I'm not sure why you would disqualify ego from the equation. Jobs have been lost in all professions due to ego for centuries. NFL front offices are not immune to it. Because if Allen's ego was so strong as to damage a front office, he never would have hired McCloughan to begin with. He would have carried on as GM with the idea that he still has Scot's scouting services at his disposal, so why do they need to hire him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I find it sad that this is a discussion. We find a decent GM and QB and we are looking for reasons to feel good about losing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Just now, Califan007 said: Because if Allen's ego was so strong as to damage a front office, he never would have hired McCloughan to begin with. He would have carried on as GM with the idea that he still has Scot's scouting services at his disposal, so why do they need to hire him? What if someone else wanted to hire Scott and he would no longer be able to access his services? How do you know how Bruce Allen thinks? Perhaps Scott was Dans call? There is so much here that none of us know. Sure, it would be better for us as fans if Scott is simply on a bender that won't end. It's certainly better than it being tied to Bruce/Dan and egos at play, furthering our 2 decades of ineptitude. However I'm not sure we will ever really know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Keim confirming the reports of Garçon requesting a trade early in the season. What kind of ****ing loser requests a trade during a contract year coming off a year with a playoff berth? And then passive-aggressively acts like he wants to re-sign here but wasn't getting calls from the team all offseason. **** this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake88 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 We have young talent, 10 draft picks and a decent amount of cap space. All of this can be attributed to our GM. Yes, he swings and misses on low risk players, but he often makes solid contact in other areas. Our roster plan has been fantastic the last couple of years compared to how it was in the past. Yet we have fans screaming on the tables for free agent splash.... you build through the draft. Free agency pushes you over the top. If we lose SM I hope we don't resort back to $$$ before culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 37 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: Who has Scott drafted that is a better player than Reed, Williams, Cousins, or Kerrigan? Because those are players chosen under the "awful" Allen/Shanahan regime. So far in two Mccloughan drafts we have Scherff, Crowder and Cravens who appear to be good players. I guess we can give an honorable mention to Smith and an incomplete to Doctson (which I loved that pick by the way). But none of them are going to be the impact players that Allen drafted without Scott. We will have to see with Doctson I suppose. I guess we will just have to disagree. But I havent seen some super GM running the team the past 2 years. Scherff is better than Kerrigan, and arguably a better guard than Cousins is a QB. But that's beside the point. It's funny that now people want to credit Allen for the 4 good players in 4 years we got out of those drafts - let me say that again, you are bragging about only 4 GOOD PLAYERS IN 4 YEARS (that is 4 picks out of 34, not even counting the RGIII picks we gave up), - yet it's 100% true that Shanahan had final say on the draft selections and Allen had just as much input, or lack of input, back then as he currently has. So if that was the Shanny/Allen regime, then this is the McCloughan/Allen regime. The only Allen draft where he had final say on the selections for the Redskins was the 2014 draft. But yea, revisionist history is fun. Also, were there even any players in the 2015 draft we could have picked that are as good as Trent is? I don't know of any. Hardly fair to criticize the GM for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 47 minutes ago, Genghis Khan said: We didn't have the cap space the giants had last year which was over 50 million. Good point very True. But we had enough money to add a starting caliber safety and DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: What if someone else wanted to hire Scott and he would no longer be able to access his services? How do you know how Bruce Allen thinks? Perhaps Scott was Dans call? There is so much here that none of us know. Sure, it would be better for us as fans if Scott is simply on a bender that won't end. It's certainly better than it being tied to Bruce/Dan and egos at play, furthering our 2 decades of ineptitude. However I'm not sure we will ever really know what it is. 1) I wasn't under the impression that Scot's scouting service was only available to one team at a time. 2) I know how egomaniacs think...so if Allen has a large enough ego to damage his own working environment without him thinking he has, he's definitely an egomaniac. 3) It's been reported that Bruce reached out to Scot in the middle of the 2014 season--his first season as GM, mind you--and that he also told Dan, after Scot was hired, that Dan had to be patient if this was going to work. Hardly sounds like Scot was forced on him. It's logical to believe that the working environment between Scot and Allen or Scot and Gruden had become unworkable, at least in Allen's eyes. We don't know why. But for ego to be the reason, Allen would have to be the equivalent of Jerruh or Al Davis. If he were, we'd have heard numerous stories about Bruce's ego over the years, including while he was in Tampa and Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 If they extend the coach but are getting rid of the GM then maybe Jay and SM didn't see eye to eye and the team thought it would be a problem. There are a few scenarios here and not all of them are Dan and Bruce sabotaging their own team. SM has only been here 2 years, he had to have done something to make the FO lose patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said: Scherff is better than Kerrigan, and arguably a better guard than Cousins is a QB. But that's beside the point. It's funny that now everyone wants to credit Allen for the 4 good players in 4 years we got out of those drafts - let me say that again, you are bragging about only 4 GOOD PLAYERS IN 4 YEARS (that is 4 picks out of 34, not even counting the RGIII picks we gave up), - yet it's 100% true that Shanahan had final say on the draft selections and Allen had just as much input, or lack of input, back then as he currently has. So if that was the Shanny/Allen regime, then this is the McCloughan/Allen regime. The only Allen draft where he had final say on the selections for the Redskins was the 2014 draft. But yea, revisionist history is fun. Also, were there even any players in the 2015 draft we could have picked that are as good as Trent is? I don't know of any. Hardly fair to criticize the GM for that. Fair enough. And solid points. And yes. I should have mentioned the RG3 debacle in my analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 hour ago, jschuck12001 said: If they extend the coach but are getting rid of the GM then maybe Jay and SM didn't see eye to eye and the team thought it would be a problem. There are a few scenarios here and not all of them are Dan and Bruce sabotaging their own team. SM has only been here 2 years, he had to have done something to make the FO lose patience. That's my guess. It was the relationship between Gruden and Scot. Same week Scot is sent home, Gruden gets extended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said: That's my guess. It was the relationship between Gruden and Scot. Same week Scot is sent home, Gruden gets extended. Maybe Gruden wants Cousins and Scot dosent...I think if thats the case i trust Gruden over Scot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Someone earlier said that you're asking for problems when you hire a GM with a coach already in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said: That's my guess. It was the relationship between Gruden and Scot. Same week Scot is sent home, Gruden gets extended. Yep. And I sure the leaks didnt help his situation either. Although I dont think Allen gets a pass in regards to leaks himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: That's my guess. It was the relationship between Gruden and Scot. Same week Scot is sent home, Gruden gets extended. It's wild that apparently very few (if any) media members are speculating about this scenario--a rift between Gruden and McCloughan on some level for some reason. Especially with Gruden making that "one was injured and the other one was a guard" comment to the press lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidFan Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: It's wild that apparently very few (if any) media members are speculating about this scenario--a rift between Gruden and McCloughan on some level for some reason. Especially with Gruden making that "one was injured and the other one was a guard" comment to the press lol... If I had to pick between the two it'd be Scot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: It's wild that apparently very few (if any) media members are speculating about this scenario--a rift between Gruden and McCloughan on some level for some reason. Especially with Gruden making that "one was injured and the other one was a guard" comment to the press lol... Absolutely. That comment stuck out like a sore thumb. At the time, it didn't get much traction and the little it did, was dismissed quickly. And as as for what we were discussing a few posts above, I never said this was solely about Allens ego or lack thereof. It could be Dan, Scott, Jay, Bruce...or a combination. No matter what it is, it doesn't look good for our organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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