The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[DC9]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Is his market value the highest paid player in the league? I guess it depends on his demands in terms of percentage of cap, but if he wants to set the market value by becoming the highest paid player in the league then what you saw this year has to be the absolutely worst you see. You're paying for potential still. 

 

Every year the cap goes up.

 

Therefore, every year, even if it's a percentage of the salary cap going to your QB, the overall monies go up as well.

 

For example  - say the Eagles paid Donovan McNabb 10% of their salary cap (of 110 mil) back in the day.  He'd get 11 mil per year, roughly.

 

5 years later - the salary cap is up to 140 mil and the Lions want to pay Stafford 10% of their salary cap.  He gets roughly 14 mil per year.

 

So the market is already set at that percentage... it's just that the money goes up each year.

 

That's how it works, sort of.

1 hour ago, bobandweave said:

 

For Daily Fantasy purposes I use this website for that, when I'm deciding who to play in my cash games I like to use the knowledge found there with the CB-WR Profootball Focus Rankings matchups to see who is in the best spots I want to play

 

http://nflsavant.com/targets.php?ddlTeam=WAS&ddlYear=2016&week=&rz=redzone&ddlPosition=

http://nflsavant.com/game.php?team_code=WAS&team_id=5110&stype=REG&year=2016

 

I have two belts from this year sitting on my mantle right now and I've never heard of that website lol.  But I'm glad you shared it cause it looks amazing.

 

Thank you.

[elkabong82]

3 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

What I want to know is why we were so damn good in RZ offense in 2015 and sucked so bad in 2016.  Was it that the Ds figured us out?  Was Cousins much more cautious?  Whatever it was Gruden needs to fix it before the start of the 2017 season, unless course Cousins is gone and then welcome to 6-10...maybe.

 

Jordan Reed only being a meaningful contributor in 10 games this season. He was Kirk's primary target in the redzone last season. Reed had 23 targets last season and 10 TDs in the RZ, and that was with the team not opening things up until the 2nd half of the season. 

 

Look at Aaron Rodgers redzone stats with Nelson this year:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00/red-zone-passing-plays/2016

 

32 targets, 11 TDs, 16 1st downs for Nelson. 

 

The year prior without Nelson, Rodgers only completed 46% of passes and Richard Rodgers led with 7 TDs. Also, notice the huge difference in Devante Adam's production this year compared to last. Similar thing happened with Garcon this year dropping off compared to last year. He really did not produce in the RZ this season. DJax was even worse. His production was awful in the RZ this year. Him being out as much last year may have actually been a blessing in disguise just in terms of the RZ production.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00/red-zone-passing-plays/2016

 

The loss of Reed was worsened by having a bottom 3rd run game and the play calling being rather lackluster there as well. 

 

Some fault lies with Kirk as well, but we saw he was fine in the RZ last year and the difference this year is personnel. His biggest RZ target, an elite target, was out a lot and we see there was a very similar effect on Rodgers when his top RZ guy was out.

 

Hopefully Doctson becomes one of those solutions. If he stays healthy he has the hands and the vertical to be lethal in the RZ.

 

[MonkFan8]

3 hours ago, onedrop said:

Sure, some blame is on Kirk. More is on whomever called the RZ offense. Seriously, how many fades or HB dives can we attempt when EVERYONE knows what's coming?

 

 

FWIW, I did read and appreciate the rest of you post. 

 

As has been posted ad nauseam in these threads, it's Kirk's call on those fades, not Gruden's or McVay's. Not sure why people continue to give him a pass. He was horrible in the red zone all around. Doesn't remove all fault from the coaches, but I don't think it speaks too well of Cousins that he kept going to the fade in the red zone this year.

[LaxBuddy21]

55 minutes ago, MonkFan8 said:

 

As has been posted ad nauseam in these threads, it's Kirk's call on those fades, not Gruden's or McVay's. Not sure why people continue to give him a pass. He was horrible in the red zone all around. Doesn't remove all fault from the coaches, but I don't think it speaks too well of Cousins that he kept going to the fade in the red zone this year.

So his options were run into a wall because our line gets no push or throw a fade that he was instructed to throw if they got the look the coaches wanted and you still are blaming Kirk for following his coaches directions? You don't think a check to a slant or in/out wouldn't have been a better option to give him? That's purely play design and coaching. But nice try. 

[wit33]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Of course they contributed, but the % is like 90% offense 10% defense, and you're blaming the offense for not being 95 or 100%.

 

 

Not in the wins. Offense certainly contributed more in the overall season, but not much more in the wins. I'll play the percentage game, I say 62.38% to the offense and 37.62% to the defense in the wins. Not factoring in the special teams lol. Win doesn't happen in Baltimore without Crowder. 

 

2 hours ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Wasnt this thread created to talk positively about Kirk and to balance out the "Let Kirk Walk" thread that was made the second the Giants 

 

Kirk is very very good but not elite. 

With Kirk, we have a chance to win. 

Without Kirk, we have no chance to win. 

Paying Kirk will NOT hurt our cap position. 

Pay Kirk. 

 

Its not that hard. 

 

Maybe I need a snickers. 

 

Really, nothing but positive talk for 8 months. I'll pass lol

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

So his options were run into a wall because our line gets no push or throw a fade that he was instructed to throw if they got the look the coaches wanted and you still are blaming Kirk for following his coaches directions? You don't think a check to a slant or in/out wouldn't have been a better option to give him? That's purely play design and coaching. But nice try. 

 

For me, I am not as worried about him checking off to the fades as he explained it pretty well and it makes sense. Also, you have a point about no running game. My problem with the fades was how poorly he threw many of them. That is not to say I blame him completely for the RZ issues.

 

It's cleaner to find a single cause and say - See, that's it! But to me this is definitely an issue of many contributing factors. It was some of Kirk - either poor throws or poor decision making. It was also some due to not committing to the run anywhere, much less the RZ. It was also some part defenses knowing what we like to do and taking that away. And finally, not having Reed much of the season hurt as he is just uncover-able at times. I would like to know our RZ % with and without Reed in the game and healthy (he played at least a game or two injured). Maybe some has that already.

 

Hopefully they will self scout and see they just did not commit to the run enough to keep Ds honest. Also, Kirk should continue to grow. He will self scout himself and hopefully get better. Also, need to develop another RZ threat.

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

I expect the Skins to pay him top 5 money and hopefully the do it sooner rather than later so we can all focus on DL and OL draft prospects and look forward to the improvement continuing.  Don't drag this out Cousins did his part and then some so get it done quickly and set the stage for a positive 2017.

 

If on the the other hand the Skins screw this up it will it for me.  I don't care if they overpay him by 20-30% and the guarantee is enormous.  After so many seasons of abject stupidity from this ownership I'm done if Snyder and company if they blow it and let Cousins slip away.  I don't think even 20 year ago Snyder would have been crazy enough to let Cousins leave, but I know for certain I'm too smart to stick around for the next batch of Ashburn idiocy.   

[Reaper Skins]

5 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Signing Cousins simply because there's nothing else out there is like marrying a woman you don't love because your friends and family keep pressuring you that you aren't getting any younger and you should just settle down. 

Not really.  It's more like deciding not to break up with your gf until you have a date with someone new lined up.

 

Otherwise you end up playing handball by yourself.

[Rattlesnake88]

33 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

Not really.  It's more like deciding not to break up with your gf until you have a date with someone new lined up.

 

Otherwise you end up playing handball by yourself.

Or you get lucky at the April speed date convention in Philly.

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Or you get lucky at the April speed date convention in Philly.

 

HAve you been spying on me?

[LaxBuddy21]

6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Signing Cousins simply because there's nothing else out there is like marrying a woman you don't love because your friends and family keep pressuring you that you aren't getting any younger and you should just settle down. 

Not signing Cousins is like waiting around for the prom queen that's a 10 and that may never even notice you and pushing the 9 that will make you happy and actually is interested in you away. Sometimes, you have to accept what you can get and move on with your life instead of holding out for a better option you may never get. Otherwise, you end up settling for the 5 because everyone else was taken while you were always holding out for something better. 

[Stefanskins]

6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Signing Cousins simply because there's nothing else out there is like marrying a woman you don't love because your friends and family keep pressuring you that you aren't getting any younger and you should just settle down. 

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

Not really.  It's more like deciding not to break up with your gf until you have a date with someone new lined up.

 

Otherwise you end up playing handball by yourself.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Or you get lucky at the April speed date convention in Philly.

 

20 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

 

HAve you been spying on me?

 

 

lol...nice.....thanks for cheering me up guys : )

speaking of handball...where was that gif Cali had??....

 

no...not exactly...

 

nevermind I'll be right back..I uh...uh, forgot my handball racket..

[Stefanskins]

found it!! TY Cali...

[MarkB452]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 1:47 PM, theTruthTeller said:

I agree in general that we should re-sign Kirk, but why do people act like we traded away Bret Favre when we let Trent Green go?  He got a break from the Skins after 5 years in the CFL, then had two winning seasons in a fairly long career, and lost both playoff games he played in.  His biggest contribution to the NFL was opening the door for Kurt Warner after he was hurt in 1999.

 

5 years in the CFL?  I think it was just one season.

 

 

In July 2012, Green was named the forty-first greatest quarterback of the NFL's post-merger era, according to Football Nation.^[15]

>>  LOL, this ranking puts him ahead of Sonny and Mark Rypien -- no way he is going to the Hall of Fame, so how can he be better than Sonny?

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

Long time lurker first time poster, I actually created a account here just to say GREAT POST OP, and this has been my thought all season long. I feel like its going to be trent green all over again if we let cousins walk. Ill be honest i dont see cousins in brady's league & unfortunately thats the kind of money he is probably going to want, But the reality is he is our best option by a mile! 

[Bang]

Welcome! Don't lurk so much.. nice to hear from you.

 

~Bang

[mistertim]

22 hours ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

Ive thought and it has been said by others that our offense seems to have fewer possessions. Combo of our D not getting off the field and our offense having to go on long drives. 

 

8th - in points per drive

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-points-per-drive-statistics/2016/

 

23rd - drives staring in opponents territory

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-drives-starting-in-opponent-territory-statistics/2016/

 

11th - drives starting in our own territory

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-drives-starting-in-own-territory-statistics/2016/

 

** where in the hell is the avg starting field position per drive stat? I feel like we had a bunch of 93 yard scoring drives but had few drives starting in our opponents side of the field. 

 

Not average starting position, but this shows team stats when it comes to starting inside their own 20. According to this we were not the worst by far. In fact, these stats say we actually started inside our own 20 less than most other teams this season.

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-drives-starting-in-own-20-statistics/2016/

 

20 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

What I want to know is why we were so damn good in RZ offense in 2015 and sucked so bad in 2016.  Was it that the Ds figured us out?  Was Cousins much more cautious?  Whatever it was Gruden needs to fix it before the start of the 2017 season, unless course Cousins is gone and then welcome to 6-10...maybe.

 

I think it was a combination of not having Reed (or at least not having a healthy Reed) and him being very tentative and afraid of making mistakes. He looked like a completely different QB this season in the red zone. In 2015 he generally looked calm, dealt with pass rush pretty well, and appeared confident. In 2016 he looked tentative, panicked easily, and didn't seem very confident or trusting in what he was seeing. No way to know for sure what caused it but it was probably a combination of factors. That's why I'm worried about what will happen when he inevitably loses some of his weapons. His numbers without Reed drop precipitously.

[mistertim]

13 hours ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

Not signing Cousins is like waiting around for the prom queen that's a 10 and that may never even notice you and pushing the 9 that will make you happy and actually is interested in you away. Sometimes, you have to accept what you can get and move on with your life instead of holding out for a better option you may never get. Otherwise, you end up settling for the 5 because everyone else was taken while you were always holding out for something better. 

 

With Kirk it's more like going on a couple dates with a girl who you thought was a 9 until you see her up close and she's more like a 5 or 6 and then being open to more options when she starts asking you to buy her a car.

[DM72]

21 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yes our defense was crappy, especially on 3rd downs. However, in the two MUST WIN games to get us into the playoffs they mostly did their jobs especially against the Giants. But the offense, Kirk in particular, came out and laid an egg both times. Just because we have a poor defense doesn't suddenly mean that Kirk gets a pass for choking in what were likely the two most important games of the year.

 

That's why I believe he doesn't have a contract yet. Scottie's about the end result. He's not about numbers.

[skins island connection]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

With Kirk it's more like going on a couple dates with a girl who you thought was a 9 until you see her up close and she's more like a 5 or 6 and then being open to more options when she starts asking you to buy her a car.

 

 I always say an upside down 6 is a 9.

I guess its what it costs to get it upside down that matters...

[BleedBNG]

On 1/7/2017 at 1:21 PM, DC9 said:

Give him a good team around him on both sides of the ball and he's good enough to win you a Championship.  Sometimes that is good enough.

 

Sign him to a long term deal.  Show him you believe in him.  Then move on and build the rest of the team around him.

 

He seems to play well when the run game is working. Here are the totals after the season of the running game in the ones we lost.

 

vs. Steelers - 47 yds.

vs. Cowboys (1) - 81 yds.

vs. Cowboys (2) - 54 yds.

vs. Cardinals - 87 yds.

vs. Panthers - 21 yds.

vs. Giants - 38 yds.

 

and against the Lions we ran 100 yds. but the D blew that one.

 

We really do need to improve the running game in big games for Cousins to get better in those games. But I look at it this way... offer him $22M for 4 years with a decent guarantee, let him look around for a better offer, and if a team is willing to do better, let him sign to that team while we get 2 first rounders. If no other team offers him better (and I really seriously doubt it), then KC can decide to sign with us or sit out (which I also seriously doubt).  

 

 

[DC9]

30 minutes ago, BleedBNG said:

 

He seems to play well when the run game is working. Here are the totals after the season of the running game in the ones we lost.

 

vs. Steelers - 47 yds.

vs. Cowboys (1) - 81 yds.

vs. Cowboys (2) - 54 yds.

vs. Cardinals - 87 yds.

vs. Panthers - 21 yds.

vs. Giants - 38 yds.

 

and against the Lions we ran 100 yds. but the D blew that one.

 

We really do need to improve the running game in big games for Cousins to get better in those games. But I look at it this way... offer him $22M for 4 years with a decent guarantee, let him look around for a better offer, and if a team is willing to do better, let him sign to that team while we get 2 first rounders. If no other team offers him better (and I really seriously doubt it), then KC can decide to sign with us or sit out (which I also seriously doubt).  

 

 

 

The other thing to look at in those games is that we were behind most of the games and trying to play catch up. 

 

That factors into the play calling which was uninspiring at times.

 

I also think there would be a couple of teams that would give up 2 number ones.  Look what Bradford commanded this past year...

[BleedBNG]

6 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

The other thing to look at in those games is that we were behind most of the games and trying to play catch up. 

 

That factors into the play calling which was uninspiring at times.

 

I also think there would be a couple of teams that would give up 2 number ones.  Look what Bradford commanded this past year...

 

I agree, but the problem would be... would they be willing to go over $22M with giving up the 2 first rounders? Bradford got $35M for 2 years. It they want to sign KC for 2 years, maybe... but I'm not sure for 4 years. 

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

The other thing to look at in those games is that we were behind most of the games and trying to play catch up. 

 

That factors into the play calling which was uninspiring at times.

 

I also think there would be a couple of teams that would give up 2 number ones.  Look what Bradford commanded this past year...

 

Philly got a 1st rounder for Bradford and that was a major reach because the Vikings were in no man's land and panicking after Bridgewater got hurt. So some team would have to give up 2 1st rounders along with an enormous contract for Cousins if we franchised and then traded him. I don't see it happening. And if it did he would almost be guaranteed to go to a bottom dwelling team like the Browns or Jets where he would have a complete crap team around him with no playmakers and a new system. I think he would fail pretty hard.

[zCommander]

On 1/10/2017 at 4:04 PM, mistertim said:

 

Yes our defense was crappy, especially on 3rd downs. However, in the two MUST WIN games to get us into the playoffs they mostly did their jobs especially against the Giants. But the offense, Kirk in particular, came out and laid an egg both times. Just because we have a poor defense doesn't suddenly mean that Kirk gets a pass for choking in what were likely the two most important games of the year.

 

But WHY does it matter that we lost to the Giants. Were we going to win the SB this year? I am not going to get hung up on two bad games Kirk had. These two games were not must wins. ALL 16 games are must win. Guess what? It takes a whole ****ing team to win every Sunday not just one player. WHY aren't you upset about the Lions game? THAT game was also a MUST win game. Oh, I know why, because in that game Kirk lead the team down the field and had us winning in the last 1 minute of the game. Pop Quiz: Do you know who lost us that game? Hint: Kirk is not one of the answers. 

 

Analogy: If you are going to hang a huge project on just one guy to get it done then you might be waiting a long time to get that project done. BUT, if you get this guy quality people to help and even if one day this guy oversleeps and comes to work late there are other 30+ people to make sure the project doesn't fall apart. 

 

People need to just get over Kirk can't carry this team on his back. I don't think any QB in the league can carry this team on their back. There are lots of things this teams needs fixing. The QB position is very low on that list!