The Evil Genius Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 3rd party bull**** is how you end up with Brexit and other things like the lesser party whoring itself out to the two main parties to get a new majority. Imho, people are conning themselves if they think 3rd parties are the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 35 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: And Ross Perot had zero political experience, never held any political office (local, state, etc.) and pulled almost 19% of the vote back in 1992. People are getting tired of establishment politicians, at least my friends and people I talk to about it, and are more open to supporting a third party candidate, but most don't because they know the reality is that candidate almost 100% doesn't stand a chance to make the debates. So, they go with one side and take the lesser of two evils approach. Are third parties only vessels for the presidency? Nothing is preventing you or “your friends” to form a third party and contest local elections. Or state elections. Or congressional seats. There’s a reason they don’t exist in the US. It’s called Duvergers law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law?wprov=sfti1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, mistertim said: It is stupid ****. But there is no difference between "Trump's GOP" and Republicans. The party is now all in with him, so whatever he wants is what they want. Because if they don't want it and they say something about it, he'll rage tweet at them and all of his mouth breathing followers will go on the attack like a pack of retarded rabid wolves. Just watch what they have and continue to do to Mittens. Nixon wouldn't have had to resign if he had had the GOP full of sycophants like Trump does. The irony being that Mittens is more true to the historical Republican party than these neo con maga assholes are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Larry said: Just write in yourself. Nah, I’m too lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Either Guidado did something to piss Trump off or he’s having a temper tantrum about something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Are third parties only vessels for the presidency? Nothing is preventing you or “your friends” to form a third party and contest local elections. Or state elections. Or congressional seats. There’s a reason they don’t exist in the US. It’s called Duvergers law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law?wprov=sfti1 No. You're refusing to accept the facts, which are that the commission made up of only Republicans and Democrats implemented a stupid rule after a 3rd party candidate made pretty big waves (for a 3rd party) in two straight presidential elections. Along with the fact that a lot of people that were/are traditionally supporters of either the Republican party or Democratic party are getting tired of establishment politics/politicians and would like to see another point of view. Sure, nothing is stopping more independents/3rd party from running in local, state, or congressional elections. But that's not the point I was making, but you knew that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Larry said: How big a prize does the GOP demand they get, to get a budget passed? And how big a prize are the Dems entitled to? that is called the art of negotiation... 1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: I’m not sure border wall funding and private school tax credits are Republican prizes as much as they are stupid **** from Trump’s GOP. I don’t think there is a huge difference between the two, most of the other republicans have resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: 3rd party bull**** is how you end up with Brexit and other things like the lesser party whoring itself out to the two main parties to get a new majority. Imho, people are conning themselves if they think 3rd parties are the answer. I disagree. And I never said that 3rd parties were the answer. I believe that they should have at least a shot in the presidential debates, so their platform can be heard, so voters can decide for themselves. I'm a registered Democrat, that voted for Hillary in 2016. I've been closer to the middle, but still slightly left for a while now. The Democratic party today, is not the Democratic party I supported years ago. It's shifted a lot further left, way too socialist for me personally. Some of us just want some fresh ideas and players in the game, instead of the same ole song and dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: No. You're refusing to accept the facts, which are that the commission made up of only Republicans and Democrats implemented a stupid rule after a 3rd party candidate made pretty big waves (for a 3rd party) in two straight presidential elections. Along with the fact that a lot of people that were/are traditionally supporters of either the Republican party or Democratic party are getting tired of establishment politics/politicians and would like to see another point of view. Sure, nothing is stopping more independents/3rd party from running in local, state, or congressional elections. But that's not the point I was making, but you knew that already. I get where you're coming from, but I feel like this whole "Having more 3rd party candidates will fix stuff!" evangelism is a bit off. It feels sort of like the "invisible hand" of the market. I don't see any specific reason to believe that having more 3rd party candidates is suddenly going to bring us out of the place we're at. That being said, that doesn't mean I'm against the idea. I'd certainly welcome some more diverse views on debate stages. These debates just bore me nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 This is somewhat related to the discussion of parties, and fitting into whatever ideological box, from John Pavlovitz: Apparently, I’ve been radicalized and I wasn’t aware. Certain people call me the “radical Left” all the time. I never considered myself radical before. I just thought I was normal, ordinary, usual. I thought equity was important to everyone. I imagined America was filled with people who took that Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness stuff seriously—for all people. I thought the Golden Rule was actually mainstream. Recently I took an inventory of my positions, screening for the extremism: I believe in full LGBTQ rights. I believe we should protect the planet. I believe everyone deserves healthcare. I believe all religions are equally valid. I believe the world is bigger than America. I believe to be “pro-life,” means to treasure all of it. I believe whiteness isn’t superior and it is not the baseline of humanity. I believe we are all one interdependent community. I believe people and places are made better by diversity. I believe people shouldn’t be forced to abide by anyone else’s religion. I believe non-American human beings have as much value as American ones. I believe generosity is greater than greed, compassion better than contempt, and kindness superior to derision. I believe there is enough in this world for everyone: enough food, enough money, enough room, enough care—if we unleash our creativity and unclench our fists. I’m not sure how these ideas became radical, though it seems to have happened in the last few years. I grew up being taught they were just part of being a decent human being. I grew up believing that loving my neighbor as myself, meant that I actually worked for their welfare as much as my own. I was taught that caring for the least in the world, was the measure of my devotion to God. I thought that inalienable rights of other people were supposed to be a priority as a decent participant in the world. I don’t think I’m alone. In fact, I’m pretty sure that most people reside here in this place alongside me: the desire for compassion and diversity and equality and justice; that these things aren’t fringe ideologies or extremist positions—but simply the best way to be human. I think most people want more humanity, not less. I think the vast middle is exhausted by the cruelty of these days. That these aspirations seem radical to some people, is probably an alarm that they’ve moved so far into the extremes of their fortified ideological bunkers and been so poisoned by the propaganda, that normal now seems excessive, that equality now seems oppressive, that goodness feels reckless. https://johnpavlovitz.com/2019/09/26/im-not-the-radical-left-im-the-humane-middle/?fbclid=IwAR0Zu3fdajOwzHqi_Cvokvw1heFKhorFmIintndn77gQ11pCOY9Wqq3Eok8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, mistertim said: I get where you're coming from, but I feel like this whole "Having more 3rd party candidates will fix stuff!" evangelism is a bit off. It feels sort of like the "invisible hand" of the market. I don't see any specific reason to believe that having more 3rd party candidates is suddenly going to bring us out of the place we're at. That being said, that doesn't mean I'm against the idea. I'd certainly welcome some more diverse views on debate stages. These debates just bore me nowadays. That's the point I'm trying to get across. I'm not saying we need more 3rd parties or candidates, just that the leading one be included and heard in the presidential debates. Nothing wrong with hearing new ideas and viewpoints that don't necessarily align with the left or right, especially with the state of both major parties. And the commission made up of only Republicans and Democrats refuse to give the voters that. If they weren't worried about another 3rd party candidate gaining popularity and taking votes away, they would have never implemented that stupid rule in the first place. I want better choices than Trump, Hillary, Bernie, etc. Would a 3rd party be the better choice? I dunno, yes, no, maybe? But at least give me as a voter a chance to hear one speak and debate with the other two candidates and make that decision for myself. Not because of some law made up by the powers that be after one took a lot of votes away from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 59 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: that is called the art of negotiation... The maga GOP would rather shut the government down than negotiate. ..you can negotiate with toddlers..but they still aren't getting gummy bears for dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said: The maga GOP would rather shut the government down than negotiate. ..you can negotiate with toddlers..but they still aren't getting gummy bears for dinner. Are Democrats the toddlers or are republicans? Because it seems like trump is getting what he wants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: I'm a registered Democrat, that voted for Hillary in 2016. I've been closer to the middle, but still slightly left for a while now. The Democratic party today, is not the Democratic party I supported years ago. It's shifted a lot further left, way too socialist for me personally. Some of us just want some fresh ideas and players in the game, instead of the same ole song and dance. The Democrats shifted way right under Clinton because the Republicans were shifting way way right, and Clinton wanted to appeal to the wider electorate. It was concerning to me because of some gains we made before Nixon. This was after Robert Kennedy's assassination. I've been concerned with this rightward shift ever since then. Hubert Humphrey was pretty right wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 32 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: The Democrats shifted way right under Clinton because the Republicans were shifting way way right, and Clinton wanted to appeal to the wider electorate. It was concerning to me because of some gains we made before Nixon. This was after Robert Kennedy's assassination. I've been concerned with this rightward shift ever since then. Hubert Humphrey was pretty right wing. Democrats had 4 years in the white house between 1968-1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, visionary said: Democrats had 4 years in the white house between 1968-1991 And Carter (despite being a good man) sucked ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3rd parties would be more viable if we had representative elections, but as it stands now it is winner take all. The other alternative would be that you have so many different parties running that it waters down (D) & (R) so drastically that they could lose. Currently, the only thing a 3rd party candidate does is siphon votes off whichever party they happen to caucus with more. It sucks, but it is reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Are Democrats the toddlers or are republicans? Because it seems like trump is getting what he wants... I'm sorry but with every single post you make I find it harder and harder to believe that you didn't vote for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, mistertim said: I'm sorry but with every single post you make I find it harder and harder to believe that you didn't vote for Trump. I think the point was that in the metaphor used, Trump is the toddler yet gets the gummy bears for dinner. At least that is how I took it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, mistertim said: I'm sorry but with every single post you make I find it harder and harder to believe that you didn't vote for Trump. I think she would be O.K. if she accepted that she really loves Trump. Most of her posts are very supportive of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 35 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I think the point was that in the metaphor used, Trump is the toddler yet gets the gummy bears for dinner. At least that is how I took it. Oh I was more taking it as "yeah, but who are the toddlers?" as in it being a whatabout-ism. Or the classic "I know you are but what am I?" Trump/Trump supporter tactic. Maybe I misinterpreted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 @TheGreatBuzz Come get your Rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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