Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[Llevron]

16 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Yes, but not nearly as much as race. 

 

Agree. And to be frank you could argue social/eco status is heavily influenced by race itself. We could do another topic on this and never run out of stuff to talk about. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

41 minutes ago, grego said:

 

could be. i was just speaking as to why adams says he likes trump and what he thinks trump actually believes.

And I am telling you that you cannot do that. This is why this clown is president now. That is white privilege in a nutshell.

[LadySkinsFan]

A black friend of mine was getting out of the NY subway stop in Harlem and heard the n-word used in a derogatory manner. When she got a look at the guy who used said term, it was a white guy. White privilege means that a white man can say the n-word, in the middle of Harlem, out loud. In freaking Harlem, the part of one of the largest cities in the country that has a majority black population. 

 

That's why people are kneeling.

[Springfield]

Fat Tuesday’s in Fairfax VA will no longer show the NFL on Sundays.

 

https://m.facebook.com/fat.tuesdays.fairfax/photos/a.10152817626065279.1073741827.307248070278/10155657512245279/?type=3&source=48

[grego]

35 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Yes, but not nearly as much as race. 

 

are there other factors that could explain the lack of proportionality? 

9 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

And I am telling you that you cannot do that. This is why this clown is president now. That is white privilege in a nutshell.

 

no compredez. cant do what?

[mcsluggo]

3 hours ago, tshile said:

 

An unfortunate part of our society right now is that problems don't get seriously analyzed and serious solutions proposed until a meaningful contingent of people are affected by it. So long as majority of the country is middle class white people, we will be incredibly slow to recognize problems until they affect middle class white people.

 

So when the problem was mostly inside the inner city where minorities lived, the answer was to step up police and enforcement. The majority thought that was the case. Now that middle class white people are seeing the opioid epidemic first hand, it's starting to change how we think of drug addiction.

 

You can easily make that sound like racism, but I think it's just a text book example of how closed minded we are - we don't acknowledged the truth of an issue until it's our own issue.

 

We saw the same thing with gay rights - we still see it. People have strong opinions about gays until it's their kid that's gay, then all the sudden their opinions change...

 

And we're still seeing it through middle class whites. There are plenty that still think drug addiction is a function of parenting. I see it all the time. I'm surrounded by parents who think they don't need to worry about the opioid epidemic because they "don't live there" and they "go to church" and all these other idiotic things they think. We're not there yet. The majority still thinks the Drug War is the answer.

 

My wife and I voiced our concerns about the epidemic and our young son to a group of people and they looked at us like we were nuts for being concerned, as if we're somehow immune to it. The ignorance is still quite strong.

 

my best friend growing up died 2 years ago of a fentanyl/heroin overdose.

 

 

raised in McLean, Virginia and Sunnyvale California (easily two of the world's most affluent communities) to two MIT PHD parents.... smart as a whip (mostly smartass, in practice) and genuinely gentle funny friendly... but cursed by depression and self-medication.   

 

it hits us all. 

not proportionately... but it hits us all.

 

RIP Kyle

[PleaseBlitz]

6 minutes ago, grego said:

 

are there other factors that could explain the lack of proportionality? 

 

I can't think of any, but would be open to considering any suggestions.

 

 

 

[tshile]

46 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I can't think of any, but would be open to considering any suggestions.

 

 

 

 

Things to think about:

# Of police

Density of population

# Of police in size of an area

# Of police interactions

Rate of certain types of crime that could one could reasonably puts police on edge (unlawful carrying of a gun, violent crime, gangs, drug running, etc)

 

Maybe less obvious things to think about:

How aggressive are political campaigns? The mayors of these cities love to stand in front of the cameras and preach about the police fixing their problem, but if you pay attention these people have history run on 'tough on crime' rhetoric and issued orders to the police to be more aggressive...

 

 

Not that any of that makes it "right" or justifies any of it. There's just quite obviously more to it than police hunting black people.

 

A less extreme example, that I think is a problem but doesn't get attention because it's so far down the list, that I often give... a 16 year old black kid riding around the city where he lives, that lives in the poor area, that has weed on him is more likely to have an interaction with the police because there's a lot more police in a lot smaller area, and they're more aggressive because the area has crime problems... and if he gets caught, is maybe less likely to get off because the cops deal with so much crap in that area the idea of being lenient went out the window long ago, and when he goes through the system no one along the way is going to stick up for him because the system is over loaded. out in a small town a white kid riding around with weed is significantly less likely to run into the police, and when he does is dealing with police that deal with speeding, registration, and the occasional outstanding warrant or DUI. maybe he's more likely to get off, and instead just have his parents called. if he goes into the system, it's not overloaded...

 

is that fair? of course not. are the people involved racist? not the way I've worded it, but there's certainly room for racism to exist depending on the people involved. does race play a factor? absolutely, there's a long history that has brought us to the point where a young black kid is more likely to be living in a poor inner city area with crime problems than a young white kid.

 

what doesn't help is when the police-advocates pretend that it's all only happenstance; when they refuse to ever be critical of one of 'their own''s actions; when we find out there is a practice department-wide in an area of going after black people....
 

 

I think if you could swap black and white communities around (but leave the police the same) and see roughly the same thing going on. Not exactly - I'm not denying there's anything racist in any of it. But roughly. High crime leads to more police and more aggressive policing which leads to the crap we've been seeing over the last 30ish years.

 

Especially when the people with all the political power live outside of the areas they're voting for more police and more aggressive policing. It's easy to just write some other area off as bad, throw the police at them, and then not care about the consequences or what is actually going on. This stuff has been 30+ years in the making

Edited September 26, 2017 by tshile

[RedskinsFan44]

Shannon Sharpe has an interesting take on the whole thing. Video in tweet:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SportyByNature/status/912337429683679233

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by RedskinsFan44

[Llevron]

59 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Fat Tuesday’s in Fairfax VA will no longer show the NFL on Sundays.

 

https://m.facebook.com/fat.tuesdays.fairfax/photos/a.10152817626065279.1073741827.307248070278/10155657512245279/?type=3&source=48

 

I live down the street. No one ****ing goes there anyway and especially not for games. They are probably doing this for publicity. 

 

Whats bad about this is Trump actually has people taking sides. We should be on the same side. At this point people dont even know what the protest is about. Just what side they are on. sick. 

[dav87sc]

18 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

And I am telling you that you cannot do that. This is why this clown is president now. That is white privilege in a nutshell.

Such a narrow view point, if you think you can narrow down his victory to racism.

Frankly, it is rather sad that is all you hang your hat on.

Hillary was possibly the worst candidate in the history of our presidential elections.

She is no less (I think more) corrupt than you think Trump is.

She is equally denigrating to those she thinks are below her station in life.

She has little regard/disdain for the military(see clam of landing under sniper fire and her leading the excuses of Benghazi to the parents regarding the video).

She put her personal wealth in front of our national interests regarding the sale of uranium to a Russian backed firm.

Personally, I think she was very ill/injured and refused to acknowledge it, allowing the perception she couldn't handle the stress of the office.

Her stance was that of being owed the Presidency, because of........having put up with Bill, being snubbed for Obama, being a woman, etc.

 

There is nothing that woman wouldn't do or say, as long as she was able to gain something in power/money or both.

 

I consider the sum total of her candidacy as nothing short of complete incompetence and found lacking.

Considering in her book about the campaign she still hasn't acknowledged how bad she muffed it, and instead has blamed everyone in the world but herself, I find that very telling and justifying.

 

In my judgement, Trump was a choice between to poor choices, but that was what we were left with.

 

You continually return to "how can you put a racist/white supremacist in the Whitehouse, without being a racist/white supremacist yourself."

You have cast all 64M voters for Trump as racist white supremacists.

Great talking points, but not rooted in reality, by even the slimmest of margins.

The white supremacist/nationalist party has somewhere between 300,000 to around 1,000,000 members.

By sheer numbers, on the high end that is less than 1% of the total number of votes cast in the last election and on the low end less than .3%.

Numerically, they couldn't put a candidate in a governorship let alone the Presidency.

 

By your logic, then all blacks are as racist and violent as blacks calling for the rape and murder of all white people, even though they probably number a fraction of what the white supremacist crowd numbers.  You should never accept/condone/or associate with anyone who has any connection to them or your are guilty by association.  No exceptions. No excuses.  And if you do, then your voice should never be allowed in the public square, and anything you have to say should be discounted if not ignored outright.

 

If you want people to take you seriously(this goes for the extremists on both sides of the argument), you must be willing to acknowledge the the intrinsic value of all people, and not be as dismissive and self-righteous as you claim the other side is.  Yelling the loudest and using the most dismissive terms does not win the argument or influence people to acknowledge any issues or make changes.  It doesn't matter if you are black/white, conservative/liberal, pro-life/pro-choice, vet/non-vet, male/female.

 

Other than what you write and the positions you have been putting out, I don't know a thing about you.  The picture that comes to mind is a young, college student who is completely immersed in the social justice atmosphere who accepts one side completely, refuses to acknowledge or accept there are nuanced positions to all things and anyone not agreeing with you is just a racist and is to be shouted down and not accepted as a valued member of society.  You, and those around you can't really think that is ever going to move the conversation forward.  It may give voice to your frustrations/anger, but it will not have a causal effect of doing anything to remove or relieve that frustration/anger.

[LadySkinsFan]

1 hour ago, Springfield said:

Fat Tuesday’s in Fairfax VA will no longer show the NFL on Sundays.

 

https://m.facebook.com/fat.tuesdays.fairfax/photos/a.10152817626065279.1073741827.307248070278/10155657512245279/?type=3&source=48

 

Deleted because someone with actual knowledge posted more relevantly.

Edited September 26, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[PleaseBlitz]

10 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Things to think about:

# Of police

Density of population

# Of police in size of an area

# Of police interactions

Rate of certain types of crime that could one could reasonably puts police on edge (unlawful carrying of a gun, violent crime, gangs, drug running, etc)

 

 

This is a good post, and I won't go through the whole thing, but I'll respond to 2 things.  First (above), all of those things are race neutral and, at the end of the day, the statistics say that a black person is about 600% more likely to be killed.  The things you list definitely impact the numbers, but not so much as to explain a 600% difference.  At least, I seriously doubt they do.  

 

Quote

A less extreme example, that I think is a problem but doesn't get attention because it's so far down the list, that I often give... a 16 year old black kid riding around the city where he lives, that lives in the poor area, that has weed on him is more likely to have an interaction with the police because there's a lot more police in a lot smaller area, and they're more aggressive because the area has crime problems... and if he gets caught, is maybe less likely to get off because the cops deal with so much crap in that area the idea of being lenient went out the window long ago, and when he goes through the system no one along the way is going to stick up for him because the system is over loaded. out in a small town a white kid riding around with weed is significantly less likely to run into the police, and when he does is dealing with police that deal with speeding, registration, and the occasional outstanding warrant or DUI. maybe he's more likely to get off, and instead just have his parents called. if he goes into the system, it's not overloaded...

 

I think the black kid riding around in a car with weed on him is more likely to have an interaction with police entirely because he is black.  White kid doesn't get pulled over.  Black kid does.  

Edited September 26, 2017 by PleaseBlitz

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 minute ago, dav87sc said:

Such a narrow view point, if you think you can narrow down his victory to racism.

Frankly, it is rather sad that is all you hang your hat on.

Hillary was possibly the worst candidate in the history of our presidential elections.

She is no less (I think more) corrupt than you think Trump is.

She is equally denigrating to those she thinks are below her station in life.

She has little regard/disdain for the military(see clam of landing under sniper fire and her leading the excuses of Benghazi to the parents regarding the video).

Obvs cant quote the entire post, but this is a fantasy world based on lying to ones self and self-delusion.

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Obvs cant quote the entire post, but this is a fantasy world based on lying to ones self and self-delusion.

 

+1

[LadySkinsFan]

10 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Obvs cant quote the entire post, but this is a fantasy world based on lying to ones self and self-delusion.

 

Plus buying into the Republican talking points of the last almost three decades. 

[skinsmarydu]

2 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Obvs cant quote the entire post, but this is a fantasy world based on lying to ones self and self-delusion.

He's obviously forgetting how the Bush admin/Stanley McChrystal bungled the reporting on the death of Pat Tillman to HIS parents. 

Talk about FUBAR.  That was one of the more ****ed up things I've seen in my years...the man was on the hillside literally screaming the words, "I'M PAT ****ING TILLMAN!" and still got shot by friendly fire, while his brother watched, and his family was LIED TO.   Even with a family member as a witness. 

Nothing she ever DID (past tense) in a governmental capacity could EVER be labeled as heinous as that.

[dav87sc]

6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Obvs cant quote the entire post, but this is a fantasy world based on lying to ones self and self-delusion.

You think I am the one that is self-delusional? lol

No, that was Hillary.

And yet again, consider yourself right and I am to be shut down.

 

You don't have to quote the whole post to make a meaningful response.

I am sorry, I don't accept your narrow view as that of a person looking for change, just someone that wants to seem relevant.

You want a conversation for change, then start talking about that, not demeaning and belittling.

[Bozo the kKklown]

Or that the Orangutan with small hands called John McCain a loser for being a POW. @dav87sc lives in a fantasy world. To me, that mindset is better to discuss on here than some of the posts yesterday. Its terrifying that people have that mindset.

Just now, dav87sc said:

I am sorry, I don't accept your narrow view as that of a person looking for change, j

you voted for Trump, lol

[dav87sc]

7 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

He's obviously forgetting how the Bush admin/Stanley McChrystal bungled the reporting on the death of Pat Tillman to HIS parents. 

Talk about FUBAR.  That was one of the more ****ed up things I've seen in my years...the man was on the hillside literally screaming the words, "I'M PAT ****ING TILLMAN!" and still got shot by friendly fire, while his brother watched, and his family was LIED TO.   Even with a family member as a witness. 

Nothing she ever DID (past tense) in a governmental capacity could EVER be labeled as heinous as that.

I won't excuse that mistake.

Hillary's lying to the face of the Benghazi families was equally heinous.  I find it more so, because she sent that lie the UN and world at large.

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by dav87sc

[Fresh8686]

3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

its also a textbook example of racism. Not being empathetic until it affects you. Not wanting to see the other side, etc. Not wanting to understand. Its racism.

 

And more than that, what you described in the feelings in the two situations is how institutional racism happens.

That's actually tribalism, not racism.

Racism, has to include an element of superiority/inferiority, that is based on skin color. If it doesn't have that element of superiority/inferiority then it is racial prejudice, rather than racism.

People can be selfish and not give a **** about people, due to those people not being a part of their group and zone of awareness. Which means they lack the connection or attachment to those people and the necessary emotional impetus to consider them during their collection of context. That flaw, does not necessarily mean that they also believe and/or operate from a place of skin color based superiority in regards to those very same people.

Of course people can be tribal AND racist, but not all of them necessarily are.

[dav87sc]

6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Or that the Orangutan with small hands called John McCain a loser for being a POW

You obviously didn't read my response/position to this very topic yesterday.

Again, belittling and demeaning, without substance.

[skinsmarydu]

1 minute ago, dav87sc said:

I won't excuse that mistake.

It wasn't a mistake.   IT WAS A BLATANT LIE FROM THE VERY TOP DOWN.  IN HIS BROTHER'S FACE, WHO WAS THERE.   Do not try to paint over that.  

And another thing...oh, forget it.  I don't feel like banging my head on a wall today.

 

[The Evil Genius]

People don't realize (or conveniently forgot) that HRC served on the Senate Armed Services Committee. She supported the 2001 military action against Afghanistan, the 2002 Iraq War Resolution, AND was a big proponent of bettering health care for military current and retired.  

 

Foreign policy wise, HRC resembled Reagan or even Dubya.

Edited September 26, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[TheGreatBuzz]

26 minutes ago, Llevron said:

At this point people dont even know what the protest is about. Just what side they are on. sick. 

So far I think this is one way the NFL players are screwing this up.  You protest to get peoples attention.  Well guess what, now you got it.  What are you going to do with it?

 

All of the people should have been cruising the TV and radio networks now speaking about what the protest was about.  There should have been a line outside of CNN, ESPN, NFL Network, etc to go talk about the treatment of blacks.  So much so that a 3rd stringer kicker would only get time with a Baynet reporter (do they still have that in SOMD?).  Their window is closing.  Go get your message out.