Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[The Evil Genius]

Just now, tshile said:

I thought it was a way to not be disrespectful to the flag but still protest, whereas sitting was seen as disrespectful

 

(Which sounds funny given where we are now)

 

But it was so long ago and I wasn't following the league much at the time (just the redskins) so my memory is foggy

 

Yep. I edited my post with the story link.

[skinsmarydu]

5 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Btw..does anyone know why Kap started kneeling (he sat the first few times)?

I heard that someone suggested it to him.  Which comes back to what @visionary posted about his feeling, that I agreed with...kneeling seems to both of us to actually be more reverent to the flag...and I posted that I think the kneel is actually the prayer for all to be covered under the Constitution of the United States (that the flag is a symbol of.) 

I'll add:  turning their backs to the flag would be disrespectful.  Kneeling to it is NOT.

[Predicto]

 

If someone already posted this, I apologize for reposting.  

 

This is the first good thing I have seen come out of Dallas since Piper Perabo.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Sisko]

9 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

He does make a good point though. The GOP cares little to nothing about vets. I've always found it odd that they wash their hands of the military when the service members are no longer useful to them AND they get little to know fallout from it from current and past service members.

The US govt. in general doesn't. Remember how they handled agent orange? The black soldiers they tested chemical weapons on? (Yeah, that actually happened) The ones that had issues after being exposed to radiation during nuclear tests/cleanup? There's a clear pattern here. However, strangely enough all one ever hears about is hippies that called returning Vietnam war soldiers baby killers. Crickets over and over on stuff like this. To paraphrase the late great Dick Gregory, when the country you risked your very life to defend treats you that way when you get back, the flag they're crowing about is nothing more than a rag. 

 

2 hours ago, tshile said:

...A less extreme example, that I think is a problem but doesn't get attention because it's so far down the list, that I often give... a 16 year old black kid riding around the city where he lives, that lives in the poor area, that has weed on him is more likely to have an interaction with the police because there's a lot more police in a lot smaller area, and they're more aggressive because the area has crime problems... and if he gets caught, is maybe less likely to get off because the cops deal with so much crap in that area the idea of being lenient went out the window long ago, and when he goes through the system no one along the way is going to stick up for him because the system is over loaded. out in a small town a white kid riding around with weed is significantly less likely to run into the police, and when he does is dealing with police that deal with speeding, registration, and the occasional outstanding warrant or DUI. maybe he's more likely to get off, and instead just have his parents called. if he goes into the system, it's not overloaded...

 

is that fair? of course not. are the people involved racist? not the way I've worded it, but there's certainly room for racism to exist depending on the people involved. does race play a factor? absolutely, there's a long history that has brought us to the point where a young black kid is more likely to be living in a poor inner city area with crime problems than a young white kid.

 

Especially when the people with all the political power live outside of the areas they're voting for more police and more aggressive policing. It's easy to just write some other area off as bad, throw the police at them, and then not care about the consequences or what is actually going on. This stuff has been 30+ years in the making

Your first paragraph quoted above is just one of the things we mean when we talk about white privilege. A black kid, even from a middle class family has to be pretty much perfect to get through to adulthood. No experimenting with small amounts of drugs, no "typical teenage hijinks" etc. because when it's Dylan and Becky that's how it's seen but when it's you, you're a thug who needs the book thrown at him.

 

As for the last paragraph, when we see white neighborhoods treated the way that black and other POC neighborhoods have, I'll regain a little bit of faith in the system. I'm not gonna hold my breath while waiting though. ?

 

1 hour ago, dav87sc said:

You want to tell me anything the Democratic party has done to make your life better in the  last 50 years?

How is that schooling going?

Inner cities any better?

how about those jobs for anyone that wants/needs one?

are you any more empowered or positioned to flourish because of the democratic platform?

 

they have found ways to raise your taxes, drain the economic life from cities, separate every single American by race, gender(which seemingly has no meaning nowadays), political affiliation, and convinced many that unless the government handles it you aren't smart enough, strong enough, or good enough to do anything on your own.

 

yeah, that is the party I want to be associate with. /sarcasm off

Srsly? ?? Another poster took care of posting some of the positive stuff so I'll go the opposite route. Please tell me how much this stuff has made the lives of people that look like me better?

--Nixon's campaign to criminalize the black community AKA "tough on crime" policies mimicked by the rest of the GOP ever since and by Dem politicians because they can't afford to look weak on crime, never mind that crime rates have plummeted over the past 20 or so years

 

--Years of voter suppression tactics against POC followed up with gutting the VRA

 

--Policies designed to resegregate schools while calling it "school choice"

 

--Years of using coded language to surreptitiously use race in political campaigns, e.g. Willie Horton, McCain's alleged half black love child, etc. 

 

--Dividing the country by pushing the idea that every time a white person doesn't get a job/school acceptance, etc. it's because of an affirmative action policy...or in general terms exploiting what I call the tragedy of the poor, downtrodden white male.

 

--Calling into question the citizenship of Barack Obama and using his election/presidency to manipulate the poor, downtrodden white male syndrome described above to their advantage

 

So, is that the party you want to be associated with?

 

[Popeman38]

Quote

<WFAA video>

And that’s an old white guy saying that. 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Popeman38

[Destino]

It's amazing how quickly these protests became about "unity" when the original point was exactly the opposite.  I'm not sure if I should be outraged or impressed.

 

[Bang]

re: Dallas Anchorman,,  this guy gets it right a lot.

Check out some of his other opinion pieces. 

 

Smart guy.

 

~Bang

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, Destino said:

It's amazing how quickly these protests became about "unity" when the original point was exactly the opposite.  I'm not sure if I should be outraged or impressed.

 

Well, I think the current protests are about trump saying a player should be fired for protesting.

 

They're saying it's about the police brutality stuff, but thats been going on for a while. It never took off until trump said something.

 

And I'm willing to bet in a few weeks it'll not be talked about much. Though with trump involved who knows.

[TradeTheBeal!]

6 minutes ago, Destino said:

It's amazing how quickly these protests became about "unity" when the original point was exactly the opposite.  I'm not sure if I should be outraged or impressed.

 

 

Im pretty sure most everything last weekend was to show league unity in the face of verbal attacks from Drumpf.  Not hard to understand.

[Taylorcooley1]

Oooooooo k.... so I originally illegally like posted a comment in the random thought section in the stadium asking why the players take a knee or stay on the bench and asked what part of the national anthem are they protesting against and I guess I was kind of confused then someone shared a YouTube link with me that explains what the original lyrics were when it was first written in the 1800s I believe.

 

So my belief is that the original version was edited in the 1930s correct? Removing basically racial comments about how slaves were killed?

[Destino]

7 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Im pretty sure most everything last weekend was to show league unity in the face of verbal attacks from Drumpf.  Not hard to understand.

Seems like someone giving Colin K a contract would have done a better job of it.  I'm just annoyed at the duplicity of the league that black balled him for bad publicity turning this into good PR for themselves by co-opting the message. 

[Burgold]

Just now, Destino said:

Seems like someone giving Colin K a contract would have done a better job of it. 

Except the timing of that would have looked like an admission of guilt. Not sure the League would be willing to do that. They got a PR win in standing up to Trump (especially with their players.) They're probably pretty happy with that. 

 

Mind you, it's fair to say also that while they got a nice PR boost by refuting Trump on the one hand they also get a big PR hurt by doing the same. We'll find out which audience matters more to the ratings and audience. This weekend's ratings were up 4% I think. Question is, what will the carry over effect, if any, be?

[TradeTheBeal!]

3 minutes ago, Destino said:

Seems like someone giving Colin K a contract would have done a better job of it. 

 

Youd have better luck finding a lucid, insightful Trump tweet than a GM/HC ready to put their job on the line to run the read-option with a 30 year old vegan.

[TheGreatBuzz]

29 minutes ago, Destino said:

Seems like someone giving Colin K a contract would have done a better job of it.  I'm just annoyed at the duplicity of the league that black balled him for bad publicity turning this into good PR for themselves by co-opting the message. 

Haha....Yea that has got to really burn his backside, huh.......

[B&G]

The First Amendment restricts ONLY the government from abridging "freedom of speech." Private employers are under no such restriction.  Kneeling during the National Anthem can never be legally prohibited by the government, but can always be prohibited by private employers.

[dav87sc]

54 minutes ago, Predicto said:

Its been a long time since the Tailgate has been graced with someone who clearly has fallen for every single conservative media  talking point, myth, deception and spin put out in the last 30 years.    

 

Welcome dav87sc.  I hope you stay around for a bit, and listen at least as much as you talk.  

That's a heckofa welcome there, stay and shut up, idiot, maybe you will learn something.

Personally, I won't hold my breath.

 

Fallen for? lol

I would send it back the other way.

The posters on this site can spew their opinions and all the Democratic talking points ad naseum, and in the same breath belittle, besmirch and denigrate the opinion of someone who thinks differently and/or may have a different life experience.   

 

I have read some very thoughtful and meaningful responses to my posts(causing me to stop and think) while others not so much.  Do you wonder why more republicans/conservatives don't post?  Hint, it isn't because they aren't Redskins fans.  It isn't because they don't have good thoughts or are just stupid, as some of you have implied and backhandedly stated.  It is the constant attacking of the person.  I will gladly debate any of the ideas you want.  I may be right, I may be wrong.  But that is me.  I am who I am.  I am not asking you to like it.  But I will demand, just as you are making demands, that you will listen and respond in ways that are meaningful, coherent, and respectful.

 

And no, your life experience doesn't disqualify mine, any more than mine does yours.

 

I see a lot of wallowing in the pain/anger/frustrations over the poor treatment of POC. But again, howling at the moon isn't going to bring this forward.

Very few of you have shown any level of thought at solving the issues you rail on about, instead choosing to rehash how terrible everyone is that is not a POC.

There have been several of you who have stated this very thought, and are even discouraged that it will stay this way.

 

I tend to be a person that is willing to listen to the other side and see if we can find common ground, acknowledge our differences, and a path forward.

 

Unfortunately, by what I read, I don't think many of you want a path forward, unless it involves only doing what you think is right.

Obama set that example in one of his first meetings with Congress after his first election.  He looked right at McCain, and told him to sit down and be quiet, that he (McCain)lost the election.  It was now his(Obamas) turn.  You may have stood up and applauded, but that was the defining moment of the refusal for cooperation of the entire Republican party.  And while I didn't/don't agree with that position, I understand the gut response.

 

Governing a country involves having to make choices and sometimes compromise.  It requires listening to all points of view and coming to some form of decision that meets the minimum standard for all(at least that is my vision for government). Unfortunately, the 8 years under Obama threw that precedent out the window, at the fault of both parties.  Republicans for being petty and not seeking compromise, and the Democrats for being willing to go whole hog and stuff every measure down the throats of the Republicans without compromise, input, or a hint of respect, out of spite.

 

I don't pretend that the Republican party has been perfect or without fault, any more than I think the Democratic party has been all wrong and never right.

 

At 52 next week, I am willing to learn and grow, are you?

-Dav87sc

[Burgold]

Just now, B&G said:

The First Amendment restricts ONLY the government from abridging "freedom of speech." Private employers are under no such restriction.  Kneeling during the National Anthem can never be legally prohibited by the government, but can always be prohibited by private employers.

Exactly, which is why after the league and the owners endorsed the kneeling... government should have kept its big mouth shut.

[dav87sc]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

Exactly, which is why after the league and the owners endorsed the kneeling... government should have kept its big mouth shut.

I agree.

[Springfield]

I mean, Collin Kaepernick is still a crappy QB.  It doesn’t bother me that he isn’t throwing interceptions and running for his life in the NFL.  He isn’t as good as RG3 and that poor adulterer doesn’t have a job either.  The only thing Griffin did wrong was get injured every two weeks and believe in himself too much.

[RonArtest15]

As someone who has ALWAYS stood for the anthem, but respected Kap's (or anyone else's) RIGHT to kneel, my POV has changed since last week. 

 

I've stood for the anthem for my own personal reasons.  I honestly couldn't care less about what others choose to do, because, hello....this is America and we're granted that right and are protected by the amendment to make that choice. 

 

Going back to what I said about my POV changing...after hearing 45 put his foot in his mouth yet again, but also on the heels of his divisive comments about Charlottesville (amongst other things,) I will be one with those exercising their right to not acknowledge the anthem when it is played at the next sporting events that I go to. 

 

It blows my mind that our very own civil liberties have been attacked by the very person "supposedly" in charge of running this country.  It's about as un-American as you can get. 

 

If those who are so adamant about the flag and having those stand actually take 15 seconds to google WHY minorities are taking a knee, then maybe we can have some positive dialogue about making change for the better.  However, folks refuse to move their stick an inch and keep screaming "MURICA" till they're red in the face without hearing why there is protesting going on. 

 

It's sad, but this is 2017. 

 

Going back to 45....he's trying his hardest to divide, but in actuality, he's doing more to unify those who may not have felt like they had a voice.  I hope Kap, the LA Sparks, Rapinoe, Chris Long, Bruce Maxwell, and countless others, continue to work hard for those who have been subject to prejudice, abuse, and victimization due to an unfair system. 

 

I'm 100% with all of those who are protesting. 

 

*Also, if it's REALLY about the flag to some of yall, I suggest you read up on the flag code and re-examine your closets, products you but, etc.  You just might be in violation due to desecrating the very object that you're choosing to hold higher than human rights. 

10 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I mean, Collin Kaepernick is still a crappy QB.  It doesn’t bother me that he isn’t throwing interceptions and running for his life in the NFL.  He isn’t as good as RG3 and that poor adulterer doesn’t have a job either.  The only thing Griffin did wrong was get injured every two weeks and believe in himself too much.

 

He should be on a NFL roster.  Period. 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Predicto said:

 

If someone already posted this, I apologize for reposting.  

 

This is the first good thing I have seen come out of Dallas since Piper Perabo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. Caught me off guard with that one. Well done 

[Springfield]

I agree, it’s a damn shame that Griffin is greeting customers at WalMart.

[StillUnknown]

12 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I mean, Collin Kaepernick is still a crappy QB.  It doesn’t bother me that he isn’t throwing interceptions and running for his life in the NFL.  He isn’t as good as RG3 and that poor adulterer doesn’t have a job either.  The only thing Griffin did wrong was get injured every two weeks and believe in himself too much.

 

Kaep had a threw 16 td's to 4 INT's last year

 

 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, StillUnknown said:

 

Kaep had a threw 16 td's to 4 INT's last year

 

 

 

On a team that lost it's HC and almost every other player didn't want to play for. I mean come on. 

[Springfield]

2 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

Kaep had a threw 16 td's to 4 INT's last year

 

 

 

You think he’d make a good Redskin after Cousins bounces?