Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[Springfield]

7 minutes ago, Major Harris said:

 

 

my first line was just to set up the NWA reference.

Oh.  Went over my head.  Haven't had my Wheaties yet.

 

 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sportingnews.com/amp/nhl/news/colin-kaepernick-anthem-protest-john-tortorella-bench-usa-world-cup-of-hockey/f04ask30etjt1hx82b0ozzkzn?client=safari

John Tortorella threatens to bench U.S. players who protest national anthem at World Cup

 

By  Brandon Schlager

 @bgschlager

September 6, 2016 10:51pm EDT

Team USA players who don't stand for the national anthem during the World Cup of Hockey could find themselves sitting long after the final verse.

John Tortorella, coach of Team USA and the NHL's Columbus Blue Jackets, is no fan of athletes using "The Star-Spangled Banner" to protest a personal cause, as San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick has done in recent weeks. Should any of his players try it, they'll be disciplined.

"If any of my players sit on the bench for the national anthem, they will sit there the rest of the game," Tortorella told ESPN's Linda Cohn on Tuesday.

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Springfield

[Spearfeather]

8 hours ago, The Sisko said:

 

The race of the cop doesn't matter a whole lot. If you're not part of the blue gang, 'er, brotherhood, you're the enemy. 

Yep. That's what it is.

[Bozo the kKklown]

15 hours ago, Springfield said:

I think that beyond race, police shootings come back to a larger factor.  Fear.  It explains why there are virtually no police shootings of women, black and white alike.  Most officers don't have fear of a woman.  Yet a big, boisterous black dude will set off the fight or flight instinct of a cop.  It may be that the cop is racist, or possibly that he's afraid when he needn't be.

 

Another thought occurred to me.  Of the countless videos of police shootings we've seen lately, how many of the victims have been particularly well dressed?

I think race has to do with it. Why would police fear the boisterous black man?

[The Evil Genius]

Personal cause? 

Maybe it's word choice, but I'd hardly call it a personal cause. It seems a lot bigger than one person (or 3) sitting/kneeling during the national anthem. 

[Bang]

I think being a member of Team USA and a member of a private entity carries a bit of a different responsibility towards some ceremony. 

Newsflash!

Soccer Coach Gets Easy Publicity.

 

~Bang

[Springfield]

19 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I think race has to do with it. Why would police fear the boisterous black man?

Same reason they'd fear a big boisterous white dude in a wife beater, tatted up from head to toe.

 

Preconcieved notions based on appearance.

[Bozo the kKklown]

3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Same reason they'd fear a big boisterous white dude in a wife beater, tatted up from head to toe.

 

Preconcieved notions based on appearance.

then they would be shot by police with similar rates, no?

[Aireskoi]

18 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

then they would be shot by police with similar rates, no?

Are they committing crimes at similar rates?  That would have to be factored in.

How do we find stats on the scariness of the white guy, and what if the officer is Chinese or Hawaiian?

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.9a17d0052e48

^^^ alarming statistics that support Black Lives Matter

9,014,635 -- total number of arrests in the US in 2013

2,549,655 - total number of black people arrested in 2013 (13% of population accounts for 28.2% of all arrests)

52.2% of murders/manslaughter arrests are black people (i did not think it would be that high. 13% of the population accounts for over 50% of arrests for murder/manslaughter?)

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

^^^ alarming statistics that support Blue Lives Matter

-------------------------------------

Because detailed FBI data on crime can lag by several years, the most-cited statistics on this point refer to 2009 data. According to that data, out of all violent crimes in which someone was charged, black Americans were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the country’s 75 biggest counties — despite the fact that black Americans made up just 15 percent of the population in those places.

“Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force,” wrote Heather Mac Donald, a conservative researcher, in a Wall Street Journal column headlined “The Myths of Black Lives Matter” that was originally published in February and re-published this weekend. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Why am I Mr. Pink?

[Gamebreaker]

18 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.9a17d0052e48

^^^ alarming statistics that support Black Lives Matter

9,014,635 -- total number of arrests in the US in 2013

2,549,655 - total number of black people arrested in 2013 (13% of population accounts for 28.2% of all arrests)

52.2% of murders/manslaughter arrests are black people (i did not think it would be that high. 13% of the population accounts for over 50% of arrests for murder/manslaughter?)

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

^^^ alarming statistics that support Blue Lives Matter

 

Although those are the numbers the FBI reported for 2013, again I want to state, in December 2015 they very openly stated their statistics are incomplete. Only 3% of the 18,000 departments out there are reporting. 

“We needed to start over,” said Michael Planty, who oversees the database for the bureau. The old data, he said, was “unreliable.” --- https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fbi-to-sharply-expand-system-for-tracking-fatal-police-shootings/2015/12/08/a60fbc16-9dd4-11e5-bce4-708fe33e3288_story.html

On the bright side, they do seem confident their new database and methods will provide more accurate numbers by the end of 2016. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Gamebreaker

[grego]

while we're trying to contextualize raw numbers-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The facts are these: Last year, the police shot 990 people, the vast majority armed or violently resisting arrest, according to the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings. Whites made up 49.9 percent of those victims, blacks 26 percent. That proportion of black victims is lower than what the black violent crime rate would predict.

Blacks constituted 62 percent of all robbery defendants in America’s 75 largest counties in 2009, 57 percent of all murder defendants and 45 percent of all assault defendants, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, even though blacks comprise only 15 percent of the population in those counties.

In New York City, where blacks make up 23 percent of the city’s population, blacks commit three-quarters of all shootings and 70 percent of all robberies, according to victims and witnesses in their reports to the NYPD. Whites, by contrast, commit less than 2 percent of all shootings and 4 percent of all robberies, though they are nearly 34 percent of the city’s population.

In Chicago, 80 percent of all known murder suspects in 2015 were black, as were 80 percent of all known nonfatal shooting suspects, though they’re a little less than a third of the population. Whites made up 0.9 percent of known murder suspects in Chicago in 2015 and 1.4 percent of known nonfatal shooting suspects, though they are about a third of the city’s residents.

Gang shootings occur almost exclusively in minority areas. Police use of force is most likely in confrontations with violent and resisting criminals, and those confrontations happen disproportionately in minority communities.

But the Black Lives Matter narrative has nevertheless had an enormous effect on policing and public safety, despite its mendacity. Gun-related murders of officers are up 52 percent this year through Aug. 30 compared to last year. The cop assassinations are only a more extreme version of the Black Lives Matter-inspired hatred that officers working in urban areas encounter on a daily basis.

Officers are routinely surrounded by hostile, jeering crowds when they try to conduct a street investigation or make an arrest. Resistance to arrest is up, officers report. Cops have been repeatedly told by President Obama and the media that pedestrian stops and public order enforcement are racist. In consequence, they are doing less of those discretionary activities in high-crime minority communities.

The result? Violent crime is rising in cities with large black populations. Homicides in 2015 rose anywhere from 54 percent in Washington, DC, to 90 percent in Cleveland. In the nation’s 56 largest cities, homicides rose 17 percent in 2015, a nearly unprecedented one-year spike. In the first half of 2016, homicides in 51 large cities were up another 15 percent compared to the same period last year.

http://nypost.com/2016/09/06/the-lies-told-by-the-black-lives-matter-movement/

4 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

Although those are the numbers the FBI reported for 2013, again I want to state, in December 2015 they very openly stated their statistics are incomplete. Only 3% of the 18,000 departments out there are reporting. 

“We needed to start over,” said Michael Planty, who oversees the database for the bureau. The old data, he said, was “unreliable.” --- https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fbi-to-sharply-expand-system-for-tracking-fatal-police-shootings/2015/12/08/a60fbc16-9dd4-11e5-bce4-708fe33e3288_story.html

On the bright side, they do seem confident they're new database and methods will provide more accurate numbers by the end of 2016. 

that's a good point. I had read in another article that the numbers for some of these stats were incomplete.

[Springfield]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I think race has to do with it. Why would police fear the boisterous black man?

 

Race probably has a lot to do with it.  I'm not saying that it doesn't.  However, killings based on fear can be addressed differently than killings based on hate.  Also, killings based on fear would include all races but obviously favor minorities, as statistics prove.

[Gamebreaker]

7 minutes ago, grego said:

 

Officers are routinely surrounded by hostile, jeering crowds when they try to conduct a street investigation or make an arrest. Resistance to arrest is up, officers report. Cops have been repeatedly told by President Obama and the media that pedestrian stops and public order enforcement are racist. In consequence, they are doing less of those discretionary activities in high-crime minority communities.

I will dive into those statistics when the time allows, thanks for the link grego. 

In regards to the quoted above, I recently listened to an interview from a former Baltimore PD officer who has been very vocal in regards to their methods in dealing with the residents in Baltimore. If you've read the Department of Justice's report on the BCPD than you may already be aware, but it seems as if some of these departments have only taught their officers one way of policing. And that is the way that they shouldn't. Since they lack the training to police a community properly, it results in them doing "less discretionary activities in high-crime minorities communities." 

[The Evil Genius]

http://www.tmz.com/2016/09/07/colin-kaepernick-nfl-49ers-jersey-sales-donate/

 

Quote

Colin Kaepernick jersey sales have EXPLODED ... and now he's puttin' his money where his mouth is, again ... by donating 100% of the proceeds he receives from the transactions.

 

Quote

This is the 2nd time this month Kaepernick has pledged to give away a huge chunk of change. Last week, he announced he'd give $1 MILLION to charity.

 

[CRobi21]

Damn. Good on Kap. 

[Chew]

2 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

and now he's puttin' his money where his mouth is, again 

Swerve on them haters, Colin!   Many of us veterans got your back! (btw, I personally feel he should stand.  But I fully support his right not to if he feels that using his platform can bring attention  to a sensitive subject he's passionate about!)

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Chew

[Chachie]

I never considered it a big deal, tbh. It's not a privilege to protest peacefully. It's a right. Never much liked Kaepernick and I do think he's an odd person to protest these issues. I think he's silly but I think he's got a right to do this. 

Also- This will die down as soon as the season starts and he's not on the field except to hold FG kicks.

[twa]

3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I think race has to do with it. Why would police fear the boisterous black man?

 

this might influence it

http://www.vdare.com/posts/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime-finally-include-hispanics-as-an-offender-category

http://newobserveronline.com/90-nonwhite-violent-crime-rate-fbi/

But I do think dress and manner influence cops actions as well.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

49 minutes ago, youngchew said:

Swerve on them haters, Colin!   Many of us veterans got your back! (btw, I personally feel he should stand.  But I fully support his right not to if he feels it's bringing attention to a sensitive subject!)

 

 

I also read that he said that after talking to a former player that was a former Green Beret that he would take a knee now as to not disrespect the military.  So while it's not standing, he has made it clear that he respects the military.  

I've always thought it was his right to protest how he wanted to, even though I didn't like his choice at first.  But it has accomplished what he sat out to do, which is bring attention to a topic that needs addressing.  

Top selling jersey in the NFL now and he is donating 100% along with another 1 million dollar donation.  

[Aireskoi]

28 minutes ago, twa said:

 

this might influence it

http://www.vdare.com/posts/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime-finally-include-hispanics-as-an-offender-category

http://newobserveronline.com/90-nonwhite-violent-crime-rate-fbi/

But I do think dress and manner influence cops actions as well.

OMG...

This table can be used for a number of interesting calculations. First, we find that during the 2012/2013 period, blacks committed an average of 486,945 violent crimes against whites, whereas whites committed only 99,403 such crimes against blacks. This means blacks were the attackers in 84.5 percent of the violent crimes involving blacks and whites. This figure is consistent with reports from 2008, the last year DOJ released similar statistics. Perhaps not coincidentally, that was the year Mr. Obama was elected president.

[Predicto]

Nice to see links to the white supremacist website Vdare on the Tailgate.  

 

 

[RonArtest15]

38 minutes ago, Predicto said:

Nice to see links to the white supremacist website Vdare on the Tailgate.  

 

 

Whoa....twa got some 'splanin to do

[The Evil Genius]

twa's over here all like

 

[Aireskoi]

Truth is the truth regardless of where it comes from, especially when MSM is completely busted to anyone paying attention.

Is it not true?  Attack it with the facts, it means so much more than the silly name calling.

[tshile]

4 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

... but it seems as if some of these departments have only taught their officers one way of policing. And that is the way that they shouldn't. Since they lack the training to police a community properly, it results in them doing "less discretionary activities in high-crime minorities communities." 

Because being "tough of crime" wins votes in areas with terrible crime problems, and mandates have been handed down from the mayor (and the police chief) to crack down on crime.

So we get things like stop and frisk, we get profiling (and not the "he's black, check him" kind, I'm talking about the "this area is full of crime, stop young men/boys and check them out" which has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the ridiculously high percentage of crimes committed by young men [ie: the kind with good intent, not the kind with racist intent, not denying the racist intent kind exists]), and we get a justice system that treats these people harsher because they come from a high crime area than they would for the same offense in a middle class suburb. We get the 'broken windows' theory.

It'd be nice if we spent more of our money, more of our resources on education and economic opportunity, and the police were able to spend more time caring about the communities they work in; and less of our time on aggressive policing, punitive discipline, and a hostile environment between the two sides.

I have no idea how you get there from here though. First step is admitting there's a problem and I don't see either side willing to do that in any meaningful way.

Edited September 7, 2016 by tshile