USA Today: Protests break out after Baton Rouge police fatally shoot man

[grego]

 

 

Or in your case, defend cop murder.......never ask any questions before or after because it's always justified somehow. 

 

 

you got that from "protest first, ask questions later"?

[TheGreatBuzz]

I agree this looks bad but I'll wait for more info before condemning the police. I think that's one thing society is bad about, whether it's police or suspects, is making up our minds before the full story comes out. Now if it comes out that the cops were wrong, then prosecute them to the fullest extent possible.

[Gamebreaker]

Ok, I'm done with this thread before I write something I can't take back. 

[Larry]

No... he was a threat cause he "had a gun."

He had a gun and . . . ?

 

 

[DC9]

I don't understand how everyone can't look at each case differently, as they are all uniquely different with different sets of facts.

 

More often than not I will side with police officers because the facts support it, or there are a lack of facts supporting the guilt of a police officer.

 

In this case, EVEN in Destino's scenario, you can't justify a shooting in my opinion.  It's called preportional force...

 

- You shoot, I shoot

 

- You reach for your gun - I REACH FOR YOU HAND/ARM... especially when you have TWO grown ass men on top of someone.  I don't empty a magazine into your body.

He had a gun and . . . ?

 

He had a gun in his POCKET and...

 

Was on the ground underneath 2 grown men?

Also Larry, you do understand that you have a right to defend yourself if you "feel threatened" but you are on the hook for what happens when you do that.

 

Who ever pulled that trigger (5 or 6 times) is on that hook.

[Larry]

In this case, EVEN in Destino's scenario, you can't justify a shooting in my opinion.  It's called preportional force...

 

- You shoot, I shoot

 

- You reach for your gun - I REACH FOR YOU HAND/ARM... especially when you have TWO grown ass men on top of someone.  I don't empty a magazine into your body.

You're full of ****. In my opinion.

You reach for a gun, and a cop puts four rounds into your center of mass, and the worst you can say about the cop is well maybe he could have handled that better.

 

(Note:  I am not at all certain that this person did, in fact, go for a gun.  I'm addressing the blanket assertion that reaching for a gun does not authorize weapons fire.) 

[Destino]

911 calls have been wrong before. It was a 911 call that started the drive-by on Tamir Rice. The store owner where this current cop murder occurred says Sterling wasn't threatening anyone. So how come police officers can't go into a situation with an at least non-violent at the moment civilian without killing him. Yet I can watch an 8 minute long video of a white guy openly carrying and pointing a gun at civilians in a park, while police beg him to put the gun down.

 

I'm not saying the police officers were in the right, what I'm saying is that the justice system isn't going to be able to touch them.  Protesting these police officers accomplishes little.  Best case scenario are some charges that won't stick. 

 

[twa]

There is no gray area if you are asked to do something and you say no. If a cop asked me to roll down my window, that request doesn't come with a silent "you're under arrest" clause to it. And you can go on Youtube and find plenty of white people, open carrying guns, damn near flaunting them in police face, not obeying orders from cops and not ending up dead.

 

you enter a grey area when you refuse a lawful order from a cop, they are empowered to make you comply with one level of force above what you present..

 

plenty of people of all colors get away with things...doesn't change the law.

 

just cause I can legally shoot you doesn't mean I want the bother .

[grego]

I don't understand how everyone can't look at each case differently, as they are all uniquely different with different sets of facts.

 

 

 

this was my point, as well.

 

it would seem obvious, but you just cant assume everyone understands this.

[tshile]

Also:

Why did they (unsuccessfully) taser the guy first?

Why did the guy not get on the ground?

 

As is pointed out, a gun was mentioned in the 911 call. A gun was found. The shooting happened after the cop yelled "he has a gun", after  a failed tasering and failure to get on the ground when ordered.

 

Another question, but for the cops: Why did they tackle him? Is that what they're trained to do? I didn't think so, but I'm hardly an authority on how cops are trained to take people down. Why did the taser attempt fail? Was he on heavy drugs (like PCP), or did the cops deploy it incorrectly?

 

Lots of unanswered questions. Doesn't really help that there's no faith in the cops to police their own in these situations.

[Predicto]

I would think handcuffs would have been the first move while he was held down on the ground, but nah, just shoot him in the head multiple times at point blank range.

 

 

[Duckus]

Louisiana is an open carry state, for what it's worth.

 

Open carry is a law for white people. 

 

I don't mean that sarcastically or flippantly. It is probably my single biggest problem with open carry laws.

[Predicto]

\

Lots of unanswered questions. Doesn't really help that there's no faith in the cops to police their own in these situations.

 

 

Particularly in Louisiana.

 

 

I always want to wait for all the info before passing judgment, but good lord - my initial take on this one is really, really bad.  Both bodycams fell off at the same time?   

[tshile]

Particularly in Louisiana.

 

 

I always want to wait for all the info before passing judgment, but good lord - my initial take on this one is really, really bad.  Both bodycams fell off at the same time?   

 

The body cam story sounded terrible, but when you look at the video... i don't know how they secure them, but that's 3 grown men wrestling around on the ground, one of which did a full on tackle to start it off.

 

The video of the officer shooting at point blank is awful.

 

The other officer presumably yells he has a gun. The officer that pulled the trigger couldn't see what was going on down there, and I believe they're trained to act - "he has a gun" is something I believe they're trained to work on. You're not supposed to say that unless you're sure, and when you hear it you're supposed to act. Not every officer sees everything, that's why they don't stand next to each other in front of you, they stagger around you so everyone has a view of something.

 

From my point of view, the officer that yelled "he has a gun" has way more responsibility than the on that pulled the trigger. Almost entirely just because he yelled that, but also because it looks like he's the one that initiated the physical part of the confrontation with the tackle.

[Larry]

Particularly in Louisiana.

 

 

I always want to wait for all the info before passing judgment, but good lord - my initial take on this one is really, really bad.  Both bodycams fell off at the same time?   

 

Agree with you.  There's certainly a reason to be skeptical, here. 

[zoony]

Particularly in Louisiana

That's not a fair comment at all. From the statements ive read of the local chief and officials, they were calling for an independent investigation into this before the national story broke

Certainly a much higher degree of transparency and professionalism than anything we've seen in, say, California:)

[Mr. Sinister]

Particularly in Louisiana.

I always want to wait for all the info before passing judgment, but good lord - my initial take on this one is really, really bad. Both bodycams fell off at the same time?

SOP

[Duckus]

Every time a shooting video is released like this I think to myself - good god, what was happening before cell phone cameras? Cops know they are being filmed in many instances, and yet we see video after video of cold blood murders. Can you image the horrors that we (whites) blissfully ignored in the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc? 

[DC9]

You're full of ****. In my opinion.

You reach for a gun, and a cop puts four rounds into your center of mass, and the worst you can say about the cop is well maybe he could have handled that better.

 

(Note:  I am not at all certain that this person did, in fact, go for a gun.  I'm addressing the blanket assertion that reaching for a gun does not authorize weapons fire.) 

 

This is where you have to keep up, Larry.

 

If you are one on one I could see it.  If you're two on one and the other dude is holding him down, yes it's murder.

 

(This assumes he was reaching for the weapon).  Gonna be difficult to convince me depending on which pocket it was in.  I think we see his left arm/hand in the video... he had about 400lbs plus of grown ass man on his right side.  You tell me.

[autoidiodyssey]

Considering that the guy was convicted of felony carnal knowledge of a juvenile in 2000, I think it is safe to say he was not legally carrying that gun. 

 

Though the cops probably didn't know that when they approached him. They also wouldn't have know about his previous run ins with the law. Like his arrest in 2009 for among other things resisting an officer, possession of a firearm, possession of stolen goods, and assault and battery. Or the arrest in 2008 for possession of stolen goods, possession of marijuana, drinking in a motor vehicle, etc. Or the fact that he owed over $25,000 in back child support. 

 

I'm not posting any of that to in anyway excuse the police actions in this case. I have not watched the video and don't really care to. By all accounts is sounds pretty bad for the police. And if all of the evidence points towards this being unjustified then I am all for those officers going away for a long time. 

 

I posted the info above to attempt to counteract the narrative we see so many times in cases like this that take a smiling picture of the victim and a few quotes from friends to make it look like the guy was the nicest guy in the world and wouldn't hurt a fly. Again, that does not mean he deserved to be killed. But he likely wasn't just innocently walking down the street minding his own business either. The guy was a convicted felon in possession of a gun, he had a reason to resist and try to get away. 

 

There is a big difference between "Father of five gunned down by police." and "Convicted pedophile shot while trying to pull gun on police." It does no good to immediately try to jump to either of those conclusions when reality in somewhere in the middle.

 

 

 

 

[grego]

 

 

The other officer presumably yells he has a gun. The officer that pulled the trigger couldn't see what was going on down there, and I believe they're trained to act - "he has a gun" is something I believe they're trained to work on. You're not supposed to say that unless you're sure, and when you hear it you're supposed to act. Not every officer sees everything, that's why they don't stand next to each other in front of you, they stagger around you so everyone has a view of something.

 

From my point of view, the officer that yelled "he has a gun" has way more responsibility than the on that pulled the trigger. Almost entirely just because he yelled that, but also because it looks like he's the one that initiated the physical part of the confrontation with the tackle.

 

 

one of the worse, clearly unjustified, cop shooting videos I've ever seen was similar to this- two cops wrestling with a guy. one of them apparently went to reach for his taser and somehow grabbed his gun instead and fired it (not sure how you confuse the two). the other cop freaks out, pulls his gun and screams something like "did he shoot you?!" to the other cop. the other cop doesn't fess up that it was him, so the other cop shoots the guy point blank in the back.

 

it was awful (wish I could find the video). the video didn't appear to leave any doubt as to what happened- it was pretty clear.

Every time a shooting video is released like this I think to myself - good god, what was happening before cell phone cameras? Cops know they are being filmed in many instances, and yet we see video after video of cold blood murders. Can you image the horrors that we (whites) blissfully ignored in the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc? 

 

 

seriously- your word against a cops? they could (and did) literally get away with murder.

[Duckus]

I posted the info above to attempt to counteract the narrative we see so many times in cases like this that take a smiling picture of the victim and a few quotes from friends to make it look like the guy was the nicest guy in the world and wouldn't hurt a fly. 

 

Hold on. You think after a police shooting, black males are treated and portrayed by the media too nicely with innocent smiling pictures?

I am not trying to be confrontational - but what ****ing world are you living in?

 

[TheGoodBits]

seriously- your word against a cops? they could (and did) literally get away with murder.

Watched a program on the black pathers recently. One of their leaders, Fred Hampton, was killed by police in Chicago. It was billed as a raid on the apt they were in but there was strong evidence it was planned ahead to be basically an execution. They even put a couple extra bullets in his head to finish him off while he was clinging to life.

[Mr. Sinister]

Hold on. You think after a police shooting, black males are treated and portrayed by the media too nicely with innocent smiling pictures?

I am not trying to be confrontational - but what ****ing world are you living in?

In a way, I do get what he's saying. Depending on the pov, you get all the good, or all the bad. Its not often you get the whole picture. Certainly not when they are agendas at play to make sure that doesn't happen. This is all public opinion based though. When you have a badge, the guy could be Hitler Jr for all I care, but you can't do that.

[Forehead]

I am not trying to be confrontational - but what ****ing world are you living in?

 

The one where Trayvon Martin is the only one of these cases that has ever happened.  And even that didn't last long once Fox News got involved.