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The Brexit Thread

No Excuses

By No Excuses
in The Tailgate

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted

Personally, I'd say its more like the original 13 colonies giving up state powers to a federal government who gets to set some rules that trump the state rules. Without such centralization of powers, those states are left to compete against each other (and really only act in their own self interest) all the while the rest of the world easily passes them by.

I heard an interesting hot take on NPR today about trying not to compare the current situation with Brexit to American Independence.

United States is not even 240 years old yet. By comparison, the 100 years war between England and France was close to 700 years ago (They've been doing their own thing for a while now). UK also makes up close to 1/5 of the total GDP of the entire European Union, is one of only two nuclear powers in Europe (France being the other), and the Pound is still worth more then the Euro even after the semi-freefall following the results of Brexit vote.

No doubt it comes across like they stand more to benefit economically staying in the EU, but it also comes across like the bigger threat is UK breaking apart then whether the UK and EU can co-exist separately in a reasonable economic fashion. I plan to read more, but it does not sound like the UK needs the EU as much as the EU needs the UK (anyone from there can correct me on that).

Having said all that, they are still technically part of the EU until they actually leave. I feel like I can see both sides of it while ignoring the xenophobic points in the pro/con analysis, and they very well may be doing that as a nation as we speak (outside looking in, that's what it looks like, but that's just my opinion).

And here I thought that guy who tried to steal the police officer's gun at a Trump rally was the dumbest Brit alive.

It's true, not everything sounds smarter in a British accent.

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visionary

visionary

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-future-idUSKCN0ZA3I9?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=576dae8d04d3012e0e1a0fe4&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

German officials warn against EU "revenge" for UK Brexit vote

 

The 27 countries left in the European Union after Britain's vote to leave should refrain from taking revenge, but focus on building consensus in areas such as security, migration and economic growth, German officials said Friday.

 

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told the ZDF television station there was hard work ahead negotiating the terms of Britain's exit, but European leaders were committed to charting a new course that tackled high rates of youth unemployment and other issues raised through the UK referendum.

 

Steinmeier said he told EU foreign ministers at a meeting in Luxembourg on Friday to focus on rebuilding a strong Europe, not hashing through differences with Britain.

 

"We have to accept the decision that was made, and not go looking for revenge," said Steinmeier, who will meet the foreign minister of France, Italy, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg - the six founding EU members - in Berlin on Saturday.

 

Manfred Weber, who represents German Chancellor Angela Merkel's political party in the European parliament, said it was imperative to start negotiations with Britain soon about its departure, to ensure stability and avoid uncertainties.

 

"We want to negotiate a new relationship, not a nasty divorce," Weber told the Muencher Merkur newspaper. "My goal would be to wrap up the exit negotiations within about a year."

 

German officials are worried France, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland and Hungary could also seek to leave the EU after Britain's vote, German newspaper Die Welt said on Friday, citing a finance ministry strategy paper.

 

https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/  French Ambassador to the US

Brexit. For France, activation as soon as possible of art50 : 2 y maximum for the divorce. The new relationship UK/EU is another topic.
5:38 PM

 

As soon as there is a new UK gvt, we'll insist on the activation of art50. Let's be respectful of the will of the people.
5:59 PM

 

Brexit. France is not on a punishment path. UK remains an ally and a major partner. We want a smooth divorce which wouldn't be interminable
6:22 PM

Edited by visionary
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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted (edited)

Have we worked the 'racist isolationist nativist idiots' out of our system yet?

Can I ask, for people more informed on the area, how much of this might have to do with Germany and its austerity measures during the global recession? Or maybe, in general, how much they might dislike Germany's control of the euro?

I honest don't know, and am curious.

I really don't understand your self-righteous disdain for people who point out things that are somewhat obvious elephants in the room. Any time someone does it you jump in and exclaim how its dumb to talk about such things. How is it some sort of leap or knee-jerk reaction to say that nativism, isolationism, and, yes, racism played a very major part in this vote? Did you see the campaigning that was done by the "leave" side? It was pretty damn obvious what buttons they were trying to push. 

 

Are there some people who did a very thorough, objective, and in depth analysis of the impacts of this decision and came to the conclusion to leave? Sure. Is that probably the case for a good amount of the "leave" votes? I seriously doubt it. 

Edited by mistertim
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Est.1974

Est.1974

Posted
Posted

Are there some people who did a very thorough, objective, and in depth analysis of the impacts of this decision and came to the conclusion to leave? Sure. Is that probably the case for a good amount of the "leave" votes? I seriously doubt it.

Not to the tune of 17.4 million people.

People voted leave because the remain campaign sucked. Cameron is going, the dick in charge of Labour will follow because he allowed his party, a predominantly pro EU group, to jump ship. The press and reporting on immigration etc is being greatly overplayed. The political leaders ****ed this up.

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No Excuses

No Excuses

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Have we worked the 'racist isolationist nativist idiots' out of our system yet?

Can I ask, for people more informed on the area, how much of this might have to do with Germany and its austerity measures during the global recession? Or maybe, in general, how much they might dislike Germany's control of the euro?

I honest don't know, and am curious.

 

Austerity measures post recession probably didn't have much to do with this and weren't a point of emphasis by the Leave campaign. If they were, they wouldn't have voted for Leave because they probably extended the duration of austerity measures.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/25/ifs-brexit-extend-austerity-budget-deficit-eu-referendum

 

In a blow to the Vote Leave campaign, the fiercely independent IFS said the impact of lower GDP growth and extra borrowing costs would knock a £20bn to £40bn hole in the government’s finances by 2020 and leave ministers struggling to balance the books before 2022, two years later than forecast.

 

 

Anyone who is interested in the economic consequences from last nights decision should give this a read.

 

None of it reflects well on the Leave campaign. This was not a decision driven by economic concerns or long term economic consequences. They straight up played into nativist fears and the Remain campaign did a lousy job of countering the BS spread by Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage.

 

But you know ultimately a well run fear campaign will likely always beat out the nerds who argue with facts and statistics. One of the main points for the Leave people was they are tired of "listening to experts". It's similar to the wave of anti-intellectualism that is spreading across the US as well.

Edited by No Excuses
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sacase

sacase

Posted
Posted (edited)

Now london politicians are calling for it to break away from GB: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/londoners-call-capital-break-away-8276156?ICID=ref_fark

 

If London breaks off, Scotland secedes and Northern Ireland reunifies with Ireland, the once-great British empire will consist of Wales and the English countryside.

Yeah London leaving is never going to happen. If the people who live in London want to be apart of the EU so bad, then they should pack their things and move. This mess is getting old on every side. My point of view looses so I want to take my ball and go home. But if I win, I want you to play by my rules everyone does it. Look, whatever the issue is, once a vote has been taken, do your best to make it work. Period. That goes for any country. There is plenty of crap that I don't agree with that have happened here, but I have never talked about leaving the US for some other place because of how people voted. Its one of the most stupid statements out there after a vote. A close second it people saying how most of the 24 and under crowd wanted to stay apart of the EU and the old people screwed them. Well I am sorry, but I don't want 24 year olds making policy decisions. 

Edited by sacase
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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted

I really don't understand your self-righteous disdain for people who point out things that are somewhat obvious elephants in the room. Any time someone does it you jump in and exclaim how its dumb to talk about such things.

If it was just pointed out, that'd be one thing.

But it's all some people ever seem to see.

Sorry I tried to ask if maybe there was more to this. By all means, please continue.

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted

If it was just pointed out, that'd be one thing.

But it's all some people ever seem to see.

Sorry I tried to ask if maybe there was more to this. By all means, please continue.

I think the reason its the main thing people see is because it was the main driver from the "Leave" side as far as the way they pushed it. They weren't encouraging in depth discussion of geopolitics and long term economic ramifications; it was mostly based on fear and pushing nativist buttons. Again, I'm sure there are some people who made their choice to vote "Leave" based on lots of studying and impartial analysis, but that is certainly not the tack that the proponents pushing it were taking or encouraging (as No Excuses pointed out, they were actually taking a very anti-intellectual stance) so I very seriously doubt that accounts for a large percentage of the "Leave" vote.

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visionary

visionary

Posted
Posted

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-usa-secession-idUSKCN0ZA3F4?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=576dcaae04d3014f437876ca&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

After Brexit, what? U.S. secessionists hankering for 'Texit'

 

Emboldened by Brexit, U.S. secessionists in Texas are keen to adopt the campaign tactics used to sway the British vote for leaving the European Union and are demanding "Texit" comes next.

 

The citizen-driven vote in Britain can be a model for Texas, which was an independent country from 1836 to 1845, and its $1.6 trillion a year economy would be among the 10 largest in the world, said Daniel Miller, president of the Texas Nationalist Movement.

 

"The Texas Nationalist Movement is formally calling on the Texas governor to support a similar vote for Texans," the group said on Friday. The office of Texas Governor Greg Abbott was not immediately available for comment.

 

The group, which claims about a quarter million supporters, failed earlier this year to place a vote on secession on the November ballot but aims to relaunch its campaign for the next election cycle in 2018, buoyed by the British vote, Miller said.

 

"Texit is in the air," he said.

 

Texit, for Texas exit, is a play on the British exit, or Brexit, and was trending on Twitter in the United States on Friday.

 

"Yee-haw! #Brexit shows how to get it done. Now we need a #Texit," tweeted user Phillip Paulson (@PaulsonPhillip).

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted (edited)

Texit may be an easy remedy to a lot of this country's issues. Let em go.

If that went through I wonder what would happen when it sinks in with their populace that they are actually their own country now, including all of the complex things that entails, including having to come up with their own currency, as well as forging brand new trade agreements and treaties with the USA and other nations. They'll need passports and have to go through customs to come onto US soil as well. Can't risk terrorists coming through their borders, now, can we?

Edited by mistertim
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No Excuses

No Excuses

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If that went through I wonder what would happen when it sinks in with their populace that they are actually their own country now, including all of the complex things that entails, including having to come up with their own currency, as well as forging brand new trade agreements and treaties with the USA and other nations. They'll need passports and have to go through customs to come onto US soil as well. Can't risk terrorists coming through their borders, now, can we?

America would be permanently blue if Texas left. I would chip in to the cause. They can leave and be ruled by President Rick Perry.

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PCS

PCS

Posted
Posted

If that went through I wonder what would happen when it sinks in with their populace that they are actually their own country now, including all of the complex things that entails, including having to come up with their own currency, as well as forging brand new trade agreements and treaties with the USA and other nations. They'll need passports and have to go through customs to come onto US soil as well. Can't risk terrorists coming through their borders, now, can we?

Tough one. Texans aren't that much different than the rest of the country in many ways. However,unlike most parts of the country,(except parts of New England,Florida,Utah and a few California Cities),they actually believe their own bull****. Tough to say if that would sink in or not. ;) 

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