grhqofb5 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Without looking at anyone else's rankings, and based solely on my lifetime (post 1980): (1) Joe Montana (2) Peyton Manning (3) Tom Brady (4) Dan Marino (5) John Elway Honorable mention: Favre, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Drew Brees, Steve Young, Neil Lomax, and Randall Cunningham. Most underrated: Ken O'Brien, Dave Kreig, Bernie Kosar, Drew Bledsoe, Boomer Esiason, Rich Gannon, Ben Rothlesberger Most overrated: Troy Aikman, Steve McNair, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 There is just no argument that works against Manning. He has the numbers, he has rings, and contrary to popular belief he is clutch(Manning has the most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history with 45, Brady is second with 37). The only thing you can say is a few guys have more rings, but as we saw yesterday rings won is based really on the overall team around you. Brady was a game manager for his first 3 rings. Bradshaw had the Steel Curtain D. Montana doesn't sniff Manning's #s and never did. #s wise Marino could be argued but he never won a ring(could be considered unfair argument, but Marino only had a 77 career playoff QB rating, compared to Manning who's at 87). Part of the problem is that its difficult to rate even the guys from the 80s and early 90s against the guys from about 2000 forward. Can't really compare passing yards, TDs, etc. or even QB rating. Wouldn't even try it with guys from the 70s. Has to be relative to their competitors. The only straight comparison is super bowl rings, and even that's a bit skewed because the league has grown from 28 teams to 32 now, so a ring is worth slightly more now. MVPs awards, AP Offensive player of the year, AP all-pro is a decent measure too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Also, on side note, Why is Elway in the discussion? Why? I'll never get that. 2-3 in super bowls, 79.9 QB rating in playoffs. Name another player on his first 3 Super Bowl offenses. He was Cam Newton before Cam Newton was born but his defense wasn't that good and he didn't have a Greg Olsen talented TE either. He took that team to 3 Super Bowls. He wasn't Montana with a stacked D, Ol, Wrs and Rbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I'm not sure where I'd rank either of them, but some food for thought: Brady has played in the AFC Championship 10 of the last 15 years, been to the Super Bowl 6 times and won 4. Peyton is the only QB to win a SB with 2 different teams. Many people consider Belichik the greatest coach of all time. Would Brady have been so successful without him (and vice versa)? Peyton Manning went to 4 Super Bowls under 4 head coaches. Head to head, Brady is 11-6 vs. Peyton, with several of those wins coming in AFC divisional and Championship rounds. Also keep in mind that Peyton didn't get his first win over Brady until the seventh time they played each other. At one point, Brady was SIX and O with 3 Super Bowl wins before Peyton had his first win against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Name another player on his first 3 Super Bowl offenses. He was Cam Newton before Cam Newton was born but his defense wasn't that good and he didn't have a Greg Olsen talented TE either. He took that team to 3 Super Bowls. He wasn't Montana with a stacked D, Ol, Wrs and Rbs. I want to add that Elway was Favre. A gunslinger. Elway had a rough first three seasons, then "got it." I think his stats for his era were pretty on par for that time. Marino was the only QB putting up video game numbers at that time and Elway was just as good as his elite contemporaries of that era. People have to remember that 3,000 yards, 30 TDs and 55% completion percentage was considered elite. Montana was the forerunner to a 60%+ completion percentage and Marino for yardage/TDs. Elway was right there. He literally carried the team to three SBs. People talk about Marino not having a running game. Well neither did Elway. The stable of runningbacks he had were ok, but no bell cows. They used a lot of draws and forward pitches as their running game. I'd suggest some of the naysayers pull up some Broncos games from the late 80s on YouTube to get a better appreciation for what he was working with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Name another player on his first 3 Super Bowl offenses. He was Cam Newton before Cam Newton was born but his defense wasn't that good and he didn't have a Greg Olsen talented TE either. He took that team to 3 Super Bowls. He wasn't Montana with a stacked D, Ol, Wrs and Rbs. And his division was as nasty as any has ever been over that era. Elway was a fantastic QB. He might have been 2-3 in the SB, but only because he went to 5. Only Brady has done that. Only 4 have been to more and that includes Aikman and Bradshaw, who were on incredibly stacked teams. Should have been 6, if it wasn't for that Jags game. Elway is absolutely a modern era top 5 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Since Superbowl rings are used as a measuring stick, I'm surprised Terry Bradshaw isn't mentioned more in these debates. His name didn't even come up here until the last post. Sure you can argue about how his team is stacked but so have a lot of the teams that played with the other QB's being mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I just think that anyone from the 70s and earlier just can't be properly compared. Otherwise, you get into guys like Bart Starr and Otto Graham who just flat out won. But how do you compare them? I also think that you really have to stop and think about how much the game changed between 1995 and 2015. It's a big part of why I think Favre should get a bump over Manning. I know that Manning passed him in every stat category, but he did it in an era where 4,500 yards were "normal" for an elite QB and 40+ touchdown seasons were what got you the MVP style numbers. Manning played many, many games where he never handed off more than 20 times. Favre, in contrast, spent the first fifteen years of his career in an era when, no matter how "elite" you were, your coach was going tell you to turn around and hand the ball off 30-40 times a game because that was football. Hell, I remember playoff runs by the Packers in the early 2000s where Favre threw about 30 times a game and they ran it about that much as well. And those were supposed "west coast" teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 How anyone can put Manning above Brady is beyond me. I think it's pretty clear at this point that Brady is the unquestioned GOAT. If he wins another one before it's all over he enters MJ territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Name another player on his first 3 Super Bowl offenses. He was Cam Newton before Cam Newton was born but his defense wasn't that good and he didn't have a Greg Olsen talented TE either. He took that team to 3 Super Bowls. He wasn't Montana with a stacked D, Ol, Wrs and Rbs. Karl Mecklenburg was no slouch!! I get your point and its a good one. but his numbers sure as hell do not look like a QB that carried a team. I don't know, no doubt he should get tons of love, he was a gamer. but i just think he doesn't belong in GOAT conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Karl Mecklenburg was no slouch!! I get your point and its a good one. I had no idea he played on the offense. But you prove my point and can only name 1 other player on the other side of the ball lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Brady, Manning, Montana, Favre, Marino, Aikman, Young. Only one rubbed his balls/anus/and the area between on a females face in college. That has to count for something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 How anyone can put Manning above Brady is beyond me. I think it's pretty clear at this point that Brady is the unquestioned GOAT. If he wins another one before it's all over he enters MJ territory. The Patriots cheated, and that alone to me means Brady doesn't get to be number 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 The Patriots cheated, and that alone to me means Brady doesn't get to be number 1.What, Brady and the Patriots get an asterisk? This is completely new to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 The farve Manning conversation, is kind of like the monk rice conversation. There are far too many things that come into play, when talking about greatest. It's just not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Since Superbowl rings are used as a measuring stick, I'm surprised Terry Bradshaw isn't mentioned more in these debates. His name didn't even come up here until the last post. Sure you can argue about how his team is stacked but so have a lot of the teams that played with the other QB's being mentioned. Terry's career numbers in the regular season just don't stack up in this company. He was a career 50% passer who threw exactly 2 more TDs than interceptions over his career. I'm not a fan of passer rating as a way to judge a QB but it is indicative and his career high rating in a single season was 88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 People overlook Marino's postseason record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 with rules evolution...Pi , catch rules (watch rice catch it and lose it when he hits the ground.....completion) Easier to decide by decade..... there is no question by decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I would just like to say that, even though I'm young enough to remember Marino more for his role in Ace Ventura Pet Detective than as a QB in the league (he was washed up by the time I started paying attention to the NFL), I just looked up his stats and he had the following season: 362/564 (64%) for 5084 yards (9.0 YPA), 48 TDs, 17 INTs, 2.3% sack rate ...in 1984 It wasn't until 2001 that someone came within 200 yards of that record, and the record wasn't broken until 2011. That is absolutely insane and could quite easily be the most dominant regular season stat line (era-adjusted) of all time. Looking at the ANY/A+ statistic on profootballreference, which era-adjusts the ANY/A statistic (one of the best measures of efficiency), Peyton Manning had only one season that exceeded Marino's 1984 ANY/A+, but Marino was able to do it despite throwing 70 more pass attempts (i.e. despite higher volume, achieved similar efficiency). Just an insane season by Marino. Really the only season that even comes close in terms of era-adjusted ANY/A is Brady's 2007 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Not among the all time elites. He shrunk way too many times in the postseason for that. Probably at the head of the second tier of HOF qb's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 My top five in no particular order Montana, Brady, Elway, Peyton, Marino. If coolness could come into play that Kenny 'the Snake' Stabler would be the best of all time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Not among the all time elites. He shrunk way too many times in the postseason for that. Probably at the head of the second tier of HOF qb's. Manning is 3 wins versus two losses against Brady head to head in the playoffs. It's very arguable if he is the greatest of all time, but I can't take any argument he is not at least among the all time greats seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 My top QBs in order are Brady, Montana, S. Young, P. Manning, Marino, and Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Manning is 3 wins versus two losses against Brady head to head in the playoffs. It's very arguable if he is the greatest of all time, but I can't take any argument he is not at least among the all time greats seriously. His brother is undefeated against Brady in SB's, if you want to look at it that way. I don't see anyone calling him an all time great. Postseason play should matter. How you play in Super Bowls should matter. This is merely for the discussion of putting him among the elite of HOF QB's. Sorry, im just not puttting him there. When it comes to postseason play, he was fairly average overall. And im not necessarily talking total team performance either. I'm talking just him, missing receivers, throwing critical Int's and blowing games, with that red faced, flustered look, walking off the field. As much as you may not take me seriously I have just about an equal time taking anyone seriously, who would consider him even "Arguably" the greatest of sll time, and thats why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 As much as you may not take me seriously I have just about an equal time taking anyone seriously, who would consider him even "Arguably" the greatest of sll time, and thats why. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.