The Gun Control Debate Thread

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, thinwhiteduke said:

4. all these shooting are practice exercises portrayed as real.these are purposely done to ignite gun control debates. a pretty boy kid who's dad works for the fbi, is the one they interview?. During the so called shooting, he's calmly filming himself with his own phone talking about it like its no big deal. the fbi was at the school 2 weeks before.

this Hogg kid ( of course thats not his real name) gets flown from LA to NY , Fox,CNN etc. giving these all to well prepared speeches and answers. do some research. Watch his eyes when he talks. plenty of people who took video journalism say he's obviously reading his lines because he hardly moves.

 a girl says a thin book she held to her face helped her from getting shot..lol so dumb.

 

watch this. this is not someone who didnt already constantly practice how to be on camera.  he's too calm, too prepared, too fluid. This is not a high school kid

 

 

See what y'all did? 

[MartinC]

7 hours ago, thinwhiteduke said:

Guns are bad .of course they are.

But if you allow govt to take them. You'll just  have to bend over  and take the Police  State from your govt and like it. 

 

 

What you mean like in the UK? Or France? Or Australia? Or ... wait a minute!

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, thinwhiteduke said:

4. all these shooting are practice exercises portrayed as real.these are purposely done to ignite gun control debates.

 

 

Never mind access to guns - some people need to be kept away from sharp objects for their own safety.

[LD0506]

8 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Never mind access to guns - some people need to be kept away from sharp objects for their own safety.

 

Yikes! Seein' posts here that make me question whether me might need spork or kazoo controls...............

[TheGreatBuzz]

47 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Never mind access to guns - some people need to be kept away from sharp objects for their own safety.

I would actually prefer some people be given more access to sharp objects and let nature take its course.

[Burgold]

And as expected, when the dust clears and the blood dries... nothing much will get done. Mitch McConnell just canceled next week's debate on gun control. Trump has backed down after meeting with the NRA. Florida voted to not even allow debate on the subject.

 

Let's hope prayers, thoughts, and adding ever more guns does the trick.

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

And as expected, when the dust clears and the blood dries... nothing much will get done. Mitch McConnell just canceled next week's debate on gun control. Trump has backed down after meeting with the NRA. Florida voted to not even allow debate on the subject.

 

Let's hope prayers, thoughts, and adding ever more guns does the trick.

 

Anyone surprised?

[Llevron]

8 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Let's hope prayers, thoughts, and adding ever more guns does the trick.

 

Its going to have to. 

 

Hope yall are right. 

[LD0506]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

Anyone surprised?

 

Nope, not one iota

 

I will say, one thing that has kinda surprised me is the way that this subject seems to be The One!, that topic that finally penetrated the steely dispassionate resolve of some posters and made 'em crack like a big ****in egg. The stoic reserve, the intellectual arguments and attention to details of debate seems to have been flushed right down the crapper and gun nutty reflexes are twitchin and twerkin all over the place. All the rationalizing and constitutional scholarly opinions and "arming the teachers" excuses and (maybe my favorite) "fortifying the schools" (FORTIFYING! The exact word has been used) horse**** in the world can't cover the festering wound of the fact that those people who so damned desperately want and need and crave guns are pretty much the very definition of the ones that shouldn't have them.

 

And yeah, I know this will go over like the ****in Hindenburg, no tears on my pillow

[Llevron]

Right. Advocating for what they know is wrong under the guise of not being able to do any better. I understand it. I dont agree with it but I do understand it. It almost comes off as desperation, which is sad to me. Not that they allow themselves to go there but that they even have to. 

 

This isnt hard. But, it is. **** sucks. 

[LD0506]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Right. Advocating for what they know is wrong under the guise of not being able to do any better. I understand it. I dont agree with it but I do understand it. It almost comes off as desperation, which is sad to me. Not that they allow themselves to go there but that they even have to. 

 

This isnt hard. But, it is. **** sucks. 

 

It's sure seems to be the exact same script with different vocabulary that addicts used to convince everyone else that they're ok, they can handle it, they have it under control, no problem, don't worry, and by the way, do you still need that TV grandma?

[Fresh8686]

3 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Regarding the No Fly, No Buy proposal, has ANY of the mass shooters been on that list? 

 

Note: I'm not saying that is an argument for/against the bill.  Just curious.

Omar Mateen, Pulse night club shooting.

 

He was on it at one point and then taken off for whatever reason.

41 minutes ago, Burgold said:

And as expected, when the dust clears and the blood dries... nothing much will get done. Mitch McConnell just canceled next week's debate on gun control. Trump has backed down after meeting with the NRA. Florida voted to not even allow debate on the subject.

 

Let's hope prayers, thoughts, and adding ever more guns does the trick.

I think we've all known, nothing substantive was going to get done right now. We'll have to see what things look like after the dust clears around the midterm elections.

Will mobilization and enthusiasm last that long? I think it will this time, especially since there is an unfortunate chance that another shooting occurs between now and then.

[Bozo the kKklown]

49 minutes ago, Burgold said:

And as expected, when the dust clears and the blood dries... nothing much will get done. Mitch McConnell just canceled next week's debate on gun control. Trump has backed down after meeting with the NRA. Florida voted to not even allow debate on the subject.

 

Let's hope prayers, thoughts, and adding ever more guns does the trick.

fam, they let little babies get murdered and did nothing.

 

Its over until we start seeing images of bullet ridden bodies.

 

Or someone comes in and claps NRA HQ.

[Llevron]

9 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

It's sure seems to be the exact same script with different vocabulary that addicts used to convince everyone else that they're ok, they can handle it, they have it under control, no problem, don't worry, and by the way, do you still need that TV grandma?

 

Its does kinda. But I only say kinda because there are people that have legitimate concerns about the future of their own children at this point and honestly believe that they have to do something and that this is the only thing that can be done. 

 

Like I said I understand it and I . Its a sad state of affairs. 

4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Or someone comes in and claps NRA HQ.

 

I firmly believe this is the only thing that will stop it. Even then, they will fight it. 

[PleaseBlitz]

36 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

fam, they let little babies get murdered and did nothing.

 

Its over until we start seeing images of bullet ridden bodies.

 

Or someone comes in and claps NRA HQ.

 

The NRA already paints themselves as the victims of all these shootings.  Imagine if someone attacked their office in Fairfax?  That angry lady would be apoplectic.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 hours ago, thinwhiteduke said:

all these shooting are practice exercises portrayed as real.these are purposely done to ignite gun control debates. a pretty boy kid who's dad works for the fbi, is the one they interview?. During the so called shooting, he's calmly filming himself with his own phone talking about it like its no big deal. the fbi was at the school 2 weeks before. this Hogg kid ( of course thats not his real name) gets flown from LA to NY , Fox,CNN etc. giving these all to well prepared speeches and answers. do some research. Watch his eyes when he talks. plenty of people who took video journalism say he's obviously reading his lines because he hardly moves. a girl says a thin book she held to her face helped her from getting shot..lol so dumb. watch this. this is not someone who didnt already constantly practice how to be on camera.  he's too calm, too prepared, too fluid. This is not a high school kid.

I knew this was going to be what you thought.

 

**** what you think. Seriously. People who go around claiming that these kids are lying are the lowest of the low.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 hours ago, LD0506 said:

And yeah, I know this will go over like the ****in Hindenburg, no tears on my pillow

Yeah, some people might not like it... to them I say, "tough ****."

 

What you said is exactly right. Talking a good game about putting in work day to day to educate one's self on the issue and claiming to study scholarly articles sounds really good and all. But, when that person manages to convince themselves that the best solution is one that not only has no statistical support nor the support of any professional organization or experts in the field, but it just so happens to be EXACTLY the same stupid ass idea that the NRA is pushing... well, I'm sorry but I'm not so easily misled.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[The Evil Genius]

Meanwhile, Smith and Wesson sales are in a free fall.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-02/smith-wesson-gun-sales-in-free-fall-as-trump-effect-takes-hold

 

 

Edit..just saw that REI is cutting ties with all NRA affiliated products. ?

Edited March 2, 2018 by The Evil Genius

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah, some people might not like it... to them I say, "tough ****."

 

What you said is exactly right. Talking a good game about putting in work day to day to educate one's self on the issue and claiming to study scholarly articles sounds really good and all. But, when that person manages to convince themselves that the best solution is one that not only has no statistical support nor the support of any professional organization or experts in the field, but it just so happens to be EXACTLY the same stupid ass idea that the NRA is pushing... well, I'm sorry but I'm not so easily misled.

 

Just to be clear, since this seems to be very directly pointed at me, I never said it was the best solution.  I never even said it was a good solution.  I've probably said in this thread like 10 times since the FL shooting, I'd love to do what Australia or Japan did.  Everybody in this thread, including the likes of twa, has supported more gun control.

 

I never said I loved the idea of allowing teachers to carry in guns in school.  But I also said pages ago that nothing was going to happen.  Part of actually thinking and talking to people actively about a problem and seeking real world solutions, it becomes clear what is going to be possible.

 

I've essentially made and/or quoted this like 5 times in this thread:

 

"Here's what I'm going to tell you.  I don't know much about the FL government, but based on what is being reported in the press, if the FL Democrats went to the FL Republicans and said, if you pass this law on your own, you own it.  Next mass shooting in this state, you own.  First time a teacher does something stupid with a gun in a school, you own it.

 

However, if you modify your bill to include minimum standards for a teacher to carry a gun in school is that they have a screening for mental and physical fitness twice a year and a biometric trigger lock on the gun and instead of banning assault weapons to the age of 21, you ban all semi-automatic weapons to the age of 24 we'll vote for it and the Republicans accepted that.

 

Your kids would be safer in school and out of school and fewer real people would get killed vs. what appears as if it is going to happen now."

 

Here's what you have to ask yourself in 1 month, do you want to say I couldn't get the solution I like or do you want to be able to say that there are going to be fewer people killed with guns?

 

I'm going with fewer dead people.  You can sit up on your high horse and talk about how you aren't so easily misled.  Good for you, but there are still going to be more dead people.

 

We can discuss the how's and why's of those being your options, but practically those are your options.  Either fewer dead people and a non-good solution or nothing and more dead people.

Edited March 2, 2018 by PeterMP

[Llevron]

40 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

I'm going with fewer dead people.  You can sit up on your high horse and talk about how you aren't so easily misled.  Good for you, but there are still going to be more dead people.

 

We can discuss the how's and why's of those being your options, but practically those are your options.  Either fewer dead people and a non-good solution or nothing and more dead people.

 

Something I thought of last night was that if we make this decision now, what kind of decisions are we setting up our kids to make for their own children? Conceivably this just gets worse right? Guns now to puts a bandied on a wound that needs surgery. No one thinks more guns will fix the problem. Knowing that, what happens in the future? Will we ever fix it if we in up here? 

 

I know thats kinda silly but indulge me I want your thoughts. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Llevron

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

26 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

I've essentially made and/or quoted this like 5 times in this thread:

I've read your rationalization for why we have to do what the NRA wants us to do yet again, yes.

[PeterMP]

12 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Something I thought of last night was that if we make this decision now, what kind of decisions are we setting up our kids to make for their own children? Conceivably this just gets worse right? Guns now to put a bandied on a wound that need surgery. No one think more guns will fix the problem. Knowing that, what happens in the future? Will we ever fix it if we in up here? 

 

I know thats kinda silly but indulge me I want your thoughts. 

 

Well, first, like I said in the last post, I wouldn't just cave into the NRA/right.  It would have to be a compromise (and I've said that repeatedly and early on).

 

If you can prevent anybody under the age of 24 from owning a semi-automatic weapon, that's a big thing.

 

Second, you have to keep working at it, and you have to work at it regularly.  It isn't like gun deaths are going to go away.  It isn't like even mass shootings or school shootings are going to go away.  There is still going to be periods and cases of public outrage, and you need to keep hammering to everybody everywhere and often that this is a problem and it needs to be fixed.

 

When I think about the bigger picture and longer term on this issue and a whole set of issues (and this country in general), I get depressed.  At this time, I don't see a resolution to a whole set of things before I think things will really significantly change in a negative way even more so than they have now.  In totality, we're in a declining swirl, and I don't see any clear thing to reverse that.

 

Maybe that's part of the mind set that drives me on this issue. and I end up on focusing very small picture in terms of what victory might I be able to claim right here today that I think will prevent deaths because the bigger picture and longer term is depressing.  Preventing some people from dying here and now is a good thing.

 

(And with that, I think I have to be done with this thread for a while.)

Edited March 2, 2018 by PeterMP

[Llevron]

It is damn depressing ill give you that

[visionary]

 

[DogofWar1]

More study is needed, but that the trend holds is worth investigating.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-02-28/for-these-three-days-nra-reduces-gun-injuries-research-shows?__twitter_impression=true