Some More Cops Who Need to Be Fired

[Llevron]

39 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Looks like the cops at Wendy’s did their jobs well.

 

shoot to injure is one of the more ignorant things you can do. Joe Biden agrees with you though.

Shooting to injure sounds dumb. It assumes some level of accuracy that I’m not sure everyone will have. 
 

I don’t think they had to shoot in the Wendy’s situation though. He woulda ran, and unless he’s leaving the state you already know who he is and unless he had a particularly violent prior record than I’m not sure he was a danger to society. It’s another situation where slowing down and thinking would have prevented a death. 

[abdcskins]

I've been reading about the Rayshard Brooks case.  Clearly the cop didn't need to shoot him.  I think it is also clear that Brooks was drinking and driving and deserved to be arrested.  I just saw the bodycam footage, dude didn't even remember falling asleep in the drive thru.  Resisting arrest and stealing a taser is never a good thing.  Blame needs to fall on both sides on this one.  Certainly does not give the cop the right to shoot and kill him.  A very bad heat of the moment decision by the cop.

Edited June 15, 2020 by abdcskins

[China]

26-0 Vote Passes the ‘Breonna Law’ Banning No-Knock Police Raids in Kentucky

 

In an “unprecedented” unanimous vote, Louisville Kentucky’s Metropolitan city council has enacted a ban on no-knock police raids after recent Louisville EMT Beonna Taylor was killed in the night when police raided her home executing a no-knock warrant for alleged drug possession.

 

Named the Breonna Law, it honors the memory of an EMT who had been working with coronavirus patients just the day before the fateful police raid.

 

The law bans the use of no-knock warrants, requiring police instead to announce themselves as police, and wait 15 seconds before forcing their way into a house, if that is necessary. Body cams are to be worn during the serving of all warrants and are to be switched on 5 minutes before the service and 5 minutes after service is finished.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Renegade7]

36 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Shooting to injure sounds dumb. It assumes some level of accuracy that I’m not sure everyone will have. 

 

Was hoping someone else would say this first:

 

First thing that came to mind was were Sean Taylor was shot.

 

Cops aren't medics and guns aren't made to disable, made to kill. Like you said, wrong tool.

[Mr. Sinister]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Was hoping someone else would say this first:

 

First thing that came to mind was were Sean Taylor was shot.

 

Cops aren't medics and guns aren't made to disable, made to kill. Like you said, wrong tool.

 

Thing that stumps me is how do you apply this to an armed populace with (in the majority of counties in America) firepower that dwarfs the police?

 

I think the real (and many times, irrational ) fear most cops have is dying by the gun. You remove their ability to counter that with their own gun, I'm not sure you get anything but just more angry cops

 

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Thing that stumps me is how do you apply this to an armed populace with (in the majority of counties in America) firepower that dwarfs the police?

 

I think the real (and many times, irrational ) fear most cops have is dying by the gun. You remove their ability to counter that with their own gun, I'm not sure you get anything but just more angry cops

 

 

Man, I hate to say it, but in a country that has more guns then people, yes, the cops have to have guns, too.

[visionary]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Shooting to injure sounds dumb. It assumes some level of accuracy that I’m not sure everyone will have. 
 

I don’t think they had to shoot in the Wendy’s situation though. He woulda ran, and unless he’s leaving the state you already know who he is and unless he had a particularly violent prior record than I’m not sure he was a danger to society. It’s another situation where slowing down and thinking would have prevented a death. 

I get that shooting to injure isn’t really a thing in the US (and I'm not saying it should be), but on the other hand I would hope police officers who carry guns should have some level of accuracy with them or they should not be firing them in the first place.

Edited June 15, 2020 by visionary

[just654]

12 minutes ago, visionary said:

I get that shooting to injure isn’t really a thing in the US, but on the other hand I would hope police officers who carry guns should have some level of accuracy with them or they should not be firing them in the first place.

I am going to guess you have never really fired a gun or had any training in guns

[visionary]

16 minutes ago, just654 said:

I am going to guess you have never really fired a gun or had any training in guns

I’m going to guess you have a point to make.

Edited June 14, 2020 by visionary

[Passepartout]

I don't like guns myself. They scare the crap out of me. As do not like toy guns. Know it is not the guns but it is the person who is mentally unstable or has a lot of hatred in the world that is the person.

[Kosher Ham]

8 hours ago, Mooka said:

 Operating a firing range, not out in the sticks somewhere either but inside a major metropolitan area or city is not easy nor is it cheap. The insurance alone is probably a deal-breaker.

 

 

One right down the street from me that I go to is always packed with cops. It's a nice place. I live in Charlotte. 

[just654]

9 minutes ago, visionary said:

I’m going to guess you have a point to make.

The point even the most skilled person with a gun is taught to shot center mass.Hitting arms and legs is just totally unreasonable. If it happens it was not intended. Snipers are pretty much the only trained personnel that can hit a certain spot. And even then they miss a decent amount of the time.

 

[sportjunkie07]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

i don’t think they had to shoot in the Wendy’s situation though. He woulda ran, and unless he’s leaving the state you already know who he is and unless he had a particularly violent prior record than I’m not sure he was a danger to society. It’s another situation where slowing down and thinking would have prevented a death. 

Unfortunately that is not the way it works. 
 

committed a crime, resisted arrest and fought with a police officer, stole a weapon, and meant to inflict harm with said weapon.

 

these things happen in a heartbeat and you only have time to react. Not doing so can cause the police officers and bystanders harm and there is zero guarantee that the criminal will run away.

 

this situation is entirely different from the George Floyd case and should be treated as such.

 

[visionary]

Just now, just654 said:

The point even the most skilled person with a gun is taught to shot center mass.Hitting arms and legs is just totally unreasonable. If it happens it was not intended. Snipers are pretty much the only trained personnel that can hit a certain spot. And even then they miss a decent amount of the time.

 

I think you misunderstood my point.  I edited my post a bit.  But also this is a discussion that's been had in these forums for years.  So I'm well aware of this.  I assume there a lot of folks out there who aren't though.

[Berggy9598]

6 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Unfortunately that is not the way it works. 
 

committed a crime, resisted arrest and fought with a police officer, stole a weapon, and meant to inflict harm with said weapon.

 

these things happen in a heartbeat and you only have time to react. Not doing so can cause the police officers and bystanders harm and there is zero guarantee that the criminal will run away.

 

this situation is entirely different from the George Floyd case and should be treated as such.

 

Wasn’t he shot in the back while running away? 

[Mr. Sinister]

3 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Unfortunately that is not the way it works. 
 

committed a crime, resisted arrest and fought with a police officer, stole a weapon, and meant to inflict harm with said weapon.

 

these things happen in a heartbeat and you only have time to react. Not doing so can cause the police officers and bystanders harm and there is zero guarantee that the criminal will run away.

 

this situation is entirely different from the George Floyd case and should be treated as such.

 

 

Yeah I agree. 100%. It's sad, but I see nothing wrong here. That's what can happen when you decide to act in a hostile manner towards police, regardless of what may have happened to some other person in some other place.

[visionary]

23 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Unfortunately that is not the way it works. 
 

committed a crime, resisted arrest and fought with a police officer, stole a weapon, and meant to inflict harm with said weapon.

 

these things happen in a heartbeat and you only have time to react. Not doing so can cause the police officers and bystanders harm and there is zero guarantee that the criminal will run away.

 

this situation is entirely different from the George Floyd case and should be treated as such.

The police unfortunately escalated the situation rightly or wrongly when they tried to arrest him after talking with him for so long.  While many will blame Brooks for resisting arrest and fighting back, many others will blame the police for causing a situation where they were then able to justify killing him (though they have been punished and the police chief has been reassigned over this).  I don't think it's at all the same as Floyd's situation, but it will be treated as one and felt as one to those who see this as an attack on African Americans and make people feel even less safe. 

 

Whether or not this was done right, it will be part of the conversation and we will all have to accept that and work from there towards some sort of consensus in this country or things are going to get a lot worse.   

Edited June 15, 2020 by visionary

[Simmsy]

5 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Unfortunately that is not the way it works. 
 

committed a crime, resisted arrest and fought with a police officer, stole a weapon, and meant to inflict harm with said weapon.

 

these things happen in a heartbeat and you only have time to react. Not doing so can cause the police officers and bystanders harm and there is zero guarantee that the criminal will run away.

 

this situation is entirely different from the George Floyd case and should be treated as such.

 

I've seen cops talk down agitated white people with guns and I've seen them several hours in a hostage situation talking to a white hostage taker. They never want to seem to talk to black people though.

 

This is going to be a bit off topic, but they should've let the guy go. I don't mean drive off, let him uber home or call for a ride. I've been apart of and with people dealing with the cops, they're usually reasonable in this situation. I don't know why this cop was so cool with the guy one minute, changed his mind and then decided to arrest him. 

I'm not saying I'm against or for the cops actions other than that, this conflict seems a bit tougher to decipher than the other ones. I just can't condone that wrestling with the cops or running away means they get to kill you. Does that mean that anytime someone resists, the cops get to kill them. Its not always better to be safe than sorry.

 

This isn't aimed at you, what you said triggered something else in my brain.

[bearrock]

We can sit here an pick apart the best ways to handle the situation in the comfort of sitting in front of a screen.  And I tend to agree that it would have been best to not use deadly force in this scenario.  I also understand that being uncooperative with the police is not the same for people of different races.  But this situation has a lot of gray and is certainly not the poster child for those advocating against police brutality.  

[China]

Looks like they're starting to fire themselves.

 

Seven Minneapolis police officers resign after George Floyd protests, citing lack of support from city leaders

 

At least seven Minneapolis police officers have resigned from the department since widespread unrest began over the death of George Floyd last month, and more than half a dozen are in the process of leaving, according to department officials.

 

The departures, an unusually large exodus, come amid a growing crisis for the state’s largest police force, with a state human rights investigation underway, calls for defunding, and even disbandment.

 

Morale has sunk to new lows in recent weeks, say department insiders, as officers reported feeling misunderstood and squeezed by all sides: by the state probe; by protesters, who hurled bricks and epithets their way; by city leaders, who surrendered a police station that later burned on national television, and by the media. Numerous officers and protesters were injured the rioting.

 

An uncertain fate for police is likely driving a rash of resignations for those who examine the political climate and think to themselves: “Why should I stay?” said Mylan Masson, a retired Minneapolis police officer and use-of-force expert. “They don’t feel appreciated. Everybody hates the police right now. I mean everybody.”

 

But those reactions are unlikely to generate much sympathy from social justice activists, who pointed out the irony of officers’ use of tear gas and rubber bullets on crowds protesting Floyd’s death and past cases of police brutality.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Want to know why it’s so hard for #cops to be ‘good apples’...

 

It was 2007 and I was assisting a call with an officer I’d never met before. He was from another team working overtime. Right in front of me he broke a kids nose with a punch. The septum was clearly deviated and blood was everywhere. The kid was handcuffed and the officer enquired of me “what should ‘we’ arrest him for?”

 

“What did he do?” I enquired. “He called me a name.” he said. After 20 mins of him trying to persuade me we should fabricate a crime he had to let the kid go.

 

“We need to do notes, get our story straight” he then told me. I don’t need assistance in writing what happened. I found a quiet place and wrote the facts. As I wrote I was joined by a female A/Sgt who knew this officer. She spent 20 mins trying to convince me this kid was a “****bag” & my notes should ‘reflect the danger he posed’. I was disgusted. We don’t behave this way.

 

I went to the Platoon Commander and provide a statement for the assault I’d witnessed. An investigation commenced, one which should have been forwarded to @SIUOntario. The investigator asked me questions like “How do you know his nose was broken?” and “Where did you get your medical degree?” (seriously?) Then came the result, a phone call from the Suptintendent whilst I was home. “Paul, our investigation is complete and you’ve been found guilt of misconduct in that you failed to communicate with a colleague. A verbal warning will be put on file. Be careful in the future.”

 

When I got back to work I was move from my team, and away from my friends, to this officers team. Officers just point blank refused to talk to me and I went to many calls by myself, without backup. 

 

Click on the link for the full story

 

[Llevron]

59 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Unfortunately that is not the way it works. 

Im aware it’s not. I’m arguing we should change the way it works and that this is another example of why. 
 

It doesn’t need to end this way as often as it does. And in this case there was really no reason for them to shoot this man as he fled. I’m willing to bet this officer did what his training taught him if he didn’t have enough time to think. And I bet it may be his training that’s the problem. 

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Yeah I agree. 100%. It's sad, but I see nothing wrong here. That's what can happen when you decide to act in a hostile manner towards police, regardless of what may have happened to some other person in some other place.

Im not really trying to say the officer did anything wrong btw. It’s a shame that it ended the way it did, and I think we can do things differently so that they don’t have to. I’m certainly not calling for dude to lose his job or anything. I just think this is a good example of stuff we can try and mitigate. Dude should be in jail and contemplating how he can fix his life not in a casket. I don’t like seeing police error on the side of killing people and that’s basically what’s happening here. 

[China]

Millions in lawsuit settlements are another hidden cost of police misconduct, legal experts say

 

False arrests, civil rights violations and excessive force are just a handful of claims made against police departments across the country by the thousands every year.

 

Amid massive protests over the last few weeks on the heels of the death of George Floyd while in police custody, demonstrators and law enforcement officials have clashed.

As a result, some officers in cities from Atlanta to Philadelphia to Buffalo have been disciplined for alleged misconduct against protesters and opened the door to the possibility of countless civil lawsuits, legal experts told ABC News.

 

While data shows that claims against police are down in cities with the largest police forces in the country, they still cost taxpayers over $300 million in fiscal year 2019. Advocates say that tax money could be better spent.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Renegade7]

We should do what we can to keep folks without guns from getting shot by police.

 

It will never be zero as long as good have guns, that's not a reasonable expectation but it will never come close if it isn't a goal.

 

It's like cancer, we shot for 0% even if getting to 0% never happens. Everytime someone dies that's a funeral.

 

We are getting closer to everytime someone gets killed by a cop something burning down, so we have to try.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Renegade7

[visionary]

Not sure when this was from but....