Renegade7 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 8:23 AM, Llevron said: The easy way out if gun reform. Take guns away from people with records or mental illness. Of course the irony here is that we really cant do that easily either. I do think it would help tremendously if people trusted the police officers more but that would take so much time too. Its a really rough situation not going to lie. And whats worse is that any change is risking lives and if one is lost because of them how many do you let slip before you have to revert back. Its going to get harder before it gets better for us. Mental Illness is too vague a term to make decisions like that on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 11 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said: I think most of us (going out on a limb here) have a big problem with lives being lost when suspects are already subdued, in a defenseless/non aggressive position, etc. I got nothing when folks decide they want to start pointing objects or start striking/slamming officers. Sure, some may still refrain from lethal force, but imo lethal force is justified. @visionary jus posted something I've seen a lot of where some folks do way more and cops seemingly refuse to shoot them. I wish we had better technology to disable folks without guns, especially if the suspect doesn't have one. I agree with you, heat of the moment I don't expect an officer to accept getting tazed with their own taser, hard to say what would be next after that from a public safety standpoint. What's step 2 if the taser doesn't work? We either need a different step 2 then shoot or a better step 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoAli Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Interesting read on the origin and history of policing. How the U.S. Got Its Police Force ”...The drive to professionalize the police followed, which means that the concept of a career cop as we’d recognize it today is less than a century old.” https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 Shooting a fleeing person in the legs only occurs on 70's era TV cop shows. I don't think we ever want police to view their firearms as another tool in their less-lethal aresnal to be used. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Dan T. said: Shooting a fleeing person in the legs only occurs on 70's era TV cop shows. In reality most cops don't shoot their weapon. Weapons training costs money and at the least requires a firing range. Cop shows and movies always have the firing range scene with the cops shooting the targets/cutouts which is bs too. Every police station doesn't just have a firing range to practice even if the officers wanted too. Operating a firing range, not out in the sticks somewhere either but inside a major metropolitan area or city is not easy nor is it cheap. The insurance alone is probably a deal-breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Renegade7 said: Mental Illness is too vague a term to make decisions like that on. We have the capability to define it further but I’m sure you pick up what I’m putting down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Renegade7 said: I wish we had better technology to disable folks without guns, especially if the suspect doesn't have one. Every science fiction story seems to have some form of handy weapon to safely knock people out without harming them too badly which is used to subdue violent criminals. It’s necessary to make whatever civilization appear more advanced and less violent than we are today. Imagine what Star Trek would look like if every time someone became uncooperative security officers had to jump on them and beat them until they allowed themselves to be handcuffed. Which brings up another issue, handcuffs aren’t making things easy. Trying to get them on a person that’s willing to fight to avoid them, or even someone of moderate strength that refuses to allow it, is not easy without hurting them. A better option more easily applied to an angry irrational person would help. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) I mentioned in another thread, I would like standard police to not even possess a lethal weapon, more like neutralizing weapons. It's unfathomable that with todays technology and all this money pumped into LE, that we don't have a better solution for cuffs, and weapons. I've been in cuffs. They suck ass. To add on, I kinda came to a mental stalemate with myself when I realized that you can't have a serious conversation about taking away lethal means, when the populace is allowed to have machine guns Edited June 14, 2020 by Mr. Sinister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 53 minutes ago, Llevron said: We have the capability to define it further but I’m sure you pick up what I’m putting down Being Bipolar, I'm always worried about folks making decisions where that alone seems to be one of the criteria. I get what you saying, I'm not against reviewing mental health in respect of firearm possession, just hope it's not some catch all. Most of these folks we really worried about either have a history of domestic violence or obsessed with violence in general. I've posted studies where a lot of the mass shooters didn't have mental health issues, they were just assholes. I'd like cops to have to go through regular psychiatric review, if for any reason the stress they go through has to take a toll and many of them won't ask for help unless they have to. How many times we see the cop finally make the news got written up a million times first, we owe it to ourselves not just look for red flags but act on actual incidents. Start with getting rid of police unions, I'm not conceived they care about the actual officers, just the image of themselves in general anytime one of them goes down something and affect that would have in the power they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) One of the extreme solutions. (I've been places where this solution was de facto in effect - not pretty). https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html Edited June 14, 2020 by nonniey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: I mentioned in another thread, I would like standard police to not even possess a lethal weapon, more like neutralizing weapons. It's unfathomable that with todays technology and all this money pumped into LE, that we don't have a better solution for cuffs, and weapons. I've been in cuffs. They suck ass. When people they are apprehending have guns, if they didn't have access to guns they would be underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, purbeast said: When people they are apprehending have guns, if they didn't have access to guns they would be underpowered. Yeah, I added more to my post just now, and that's what's made this such a difficult issue for me to assess . Anyone at anytime has the potential to gun down masses of people, and that number becomes far greater, even with my other suggested idea of neutralization weapons. Edited June 14, 2020 by Mr. Sinister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I've posted studies where a lot of the mass shooters didn't have mental health issues, they were just assholes. Im not really thinking about mass shooters, I’m thinking about people who would makes cops jobs less safe, and therefor giving them a necessity to be armed, making us less safe. and I’m just spit balling. I know you are bipolar I’m not trying to insult. My niece is bipolar too, so I know it’s not all crazy all the time like people think. But there are moments when she’s been off her meds for a while that, if she had access to a gun, she would scare me. These kinds of cases exist and asking cops to deal with them is just stupid to me. But when I said mental illness I wasn’t thinking of anything in particular. So like I said we can define it. It doesn’t have to be bipolar (which I personally think is too broad by itself anyway honestly) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, Llevron said: Im not really thinking about mass shooters, I’m thinking about people who would makes cops jobs less safe, and therefor giving them a necessity to be armed, making us less safe. and I’m just spit balling. I know you are bipolar I’m not trying to insult. My niece is bipolar too, so I know it’s not all crazy all the time like people think. But there are moments when she’s been off her meds for a while that, if she had access to a gun, she would scare me. These kinds of cases exist and asking cops to deal with them is just stupid to me. But when I said mental illness I wasn’t thinking of anything in particular. So like I said we can define it. It doesn’t have to be bipolar (which I personally think is too broad by itself anyway honestly) I can dig it, and with you on not asking cops to be the first responders for folks with mental health issues. I remember one time I did call 911 because I needed help, it was a bad reaction to a drug during a bad spike, bad combo. They didn't send the ambulance like I requested to help possible administer a counter-drug while self-admitted myself, they sent a cop to make sure wasn't threat. He put me in a back of his squad car to take me to the hospital. We are asking them to do to much, so I totally agree with not only reviewing them for mental health issues but stop asking them to deal with for us instead of more efficient and effective solutions. This means listening to the scientists and mental health experts on when the cops are appropriate vs first resort. Right now they are being asked to fix too much and given green light to solve situations they aren't qualified for with firearms. That's the other side of the coin on this issue to me, where the side I think is dominating this thread is the cops being used as condiut for racial discriminiation. As John Oliver said, using the cops for suppressing black people wasn't an accident, it was poured into the design of modern law enforcement once reconstruction era ended and jim crow era started. So they have to intentionally take it out, not beat around the bush and just hope it goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 12 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said: Police do not and should not have a "shoot to wound" tactic Why not when the perp is unarmed and running away, I've had a chance to see the video several more times and the man who was shot wasn't sprinting away like Carl Lewis, he was laboring just like the cops, I'm guessing they were exhausted from the scuffle. There was a point right before the perp turned to fire the taser that the cop was really close to being able to dive and tackle him, close but not close enough. If cops are using one set of rules for every situation then no wonder we have these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: Why not when the perp is unarmed and running away, I've had a chance to see the video several more times and the man who was shot wasn't sprinting away like Carl Lewis, he was laboring just like the cops, I'm guessing they were exhausted from the scuffle. There was a point right before the perp turned to fire the taser that the cop was really close to being able to dive and tackle him, close but not close enough. If cops are using one set of rules for every situation then no wonder we have these issues. Thats what they have the taser for. If he hadn't stolen the taser then maybe thats what they would have used. Edited June 14, 2020 by DCSaints_fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, visionary said: Videos like this bother me. I know that the guy filming is in his own rights and stuff but he was clearly trying to get a rise out of the officers. He was being a dick to them for really no reason. From the get go he had an attitude of "I know more than you" and these people are just annoying as ****. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said: Thats what they have the taser for. Even he hadn't stolen the taser then maybe thats what they would have used. The cop had the taser aimed at Brooks when he was chasing him, it's hard to tell if he discharged it and it had no effect on Brooks but it's clear as day his arm is extended with the taser pointed at Brooks as he is chasing him and he's probably 10 ft away from him. That's when the Brooks turned to aim the stolen taser at the cop that's when the cop dropped his taser and shot him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, visionary said: Thread This is an area where I think the law need some reform. The law says the police have to arrest Brooks right there, as he was DWI. However, its arguable that Brooks represented an imminent threat to public safety. So does he really need to be arrested? Car could be impounded and Brooks could be "escorted" home, and issued a summons to appear in court for the DWI charge. Edited June 14, 2020 by DCSaints_fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Looks like the cops at Wendy’s did their jobs well. shoot to injure is one of the more ignorant things you can do. Joe Biden agrees with you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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