Potential Trade Partners if Mariota Falls

[88Comrade2000]

I think we know Scott will probably be looking in a different direction at QB but does he really think Mariota is going be any better than what we have now and what will be available in 2016?

 

I'd try to trade the pick, if he lasts to #5.

 

This team is going to suck in 2015 and there will more changes in 2016.  Just ride with what we have and build up other parts of the team.  Then in 2016 with the probable new coach; we can draft the franchise QB we thought we would be getting with Robert. 

 

i still think Scott may draft a QB in the lower rounds and we eventually just cut Cousins.

[squijoo]

What if the Redskins select Mariota with the 5th pick then wind up trading (or maybe this was the secret back-door plan among NFC East foes all along) him AND RG3 to the Eagles for Bradford, their 1st, 2nd, 3rd and (maybe 5th) this year? That way, Chip and the Eagles get not one but 2 Chip-style QBs (one with NFL experience but a history of injuries and another with a perceived bright future that Chip has lauded over for a long time) plus they hang on to all of their picks next year (as opposed to having to give up their 2016 1st or 2nd rounder in addition to this years picks in order to move up to #5 this year.) The Redskins get a QB in Bradford that, when healthy has everything Gruden wants in a QB (plus he still will have Cousins as a back-up) and a draft haul that McGloughan would be ecstatic to get to work with.

 

my mind = blown

 

 

 

pardon me as i gather myself from that alternate reality

[Burgold]

Are you seriously arguing a QB isn't a core part of a team?  The problem with the Redskins is that we assume that any QB we draft is going to be a bust because RG3 broke all of our hearts.  We drafted a can't miss player and... well we seem to have missed anyway. 

For me, it's something a bit different. We've tried RGIII, Ramsey, Campbell, Cousins, and twenty  other QBs since the good ole days with almost no success. Every other year we draft or trade for another QB and they all flop for one reason or another. Could they all be bums? It seems unlikely.

 

So, instead of buying a first rate captain, I kind of want to see what happens if we actually buy some good timber and build a seaworthy boat first.

 

A QB's essential, but we keep swapping them in and out with the same results. What we haven't done is build up the team.  A great captain can't do much if he's got no oars, sails, engine or deck.

[ThomasRoane]

If every GM will take any player over a QB because QBs aren't core players, why do they go so high every single draft? It's probably because playoff teams have QBs most of the time and teams that play defense but can't pass.... tend to fall short.

Cleveland plays great defense and has an excellent corner. How did they do in the playoffs? Arizona made the playoffs because they jumped out to a big lead while their QB was healthy. Great defense great secondary. How did they do without a QB? The rams, and Bradford, enjoy a great defense.... but that QB can't stay healthy and so they suck.

Just list the teams with bad QBs versus good ones. Then see how many on each list made the playoffs.

 

To help make your case just look at the Jets.  Rex had some great defenses and their O-Line at one time boasted four 1st-rounders.  But without a quality QB what good did it do them? 

I think we know Scott will probably be looking in a different direction at QB but does he really think Mariota is going be any better than what we have now and what will be available in 2016?

 

I'd try to trade the pick, if he lasts to #5.

 

This team is going to suck in 2015 and there will more changes in 2016.  Just ride with what we have and build up other parts of the team.  Then in 2016 with the probable new coach; we can draft the franchise QB we thought we would be getting with Robert. 

 

i still think Scott may draft a QB in the lower rounds and we eventually just cut Cousins.

 

-Or-

 

Draft Mariotta.  Trade Griffin for whatever you could get.  Roll out Kirk Cousins for a couple of years until Mariotta learns how to play the position (Re-up Kirk for two incentive-laden years).  If Kirk plays great then we can flip him for a high pick.  If he stinks then the team will end up with another high draft pick to parlay into multiple picks to fill out the rest of the team.

 

Win-Win!

[TexasSkinsFan]

For me, it's something a bit different. We've tried RGIII, Ramsey, Campbell, Cousins, and twenty  other QBs since the good ole days with almost no success. Every other year we draft or trade for another QB and they all flop for one reason or another. Could they all be bums? It seems unlikely.

 

So, instead of buying a first rate captain, I kind of want to see what happens if we actually buy some good timber and build a seaworthy boat first.

 

A QB's essential, but we keep swapping them in and out with the same results. What we haven't done is build up the team.  A great captain can't do much if he's got no oars, sails, engine or deck.

 

What does it then say to you that none of the 20 other QBs minus one actually left here and went on to have success on other teams. The one exception was of course Brad Johnson who we decided not to re-sign who went on to win a Superbowl in Tampa off the back of a dominating defense? None of the others did anything here or there regardless of the teams they were on which to me shows the talent vs the team they were on. I can't wrap my head around that. Or what about Luck taking his team to the playoffs after being drafted and his team won two games the year before. Or how Griffin helped take us to the playoffs after we drafted him and he joined a 5 win team. QB's don't need dominating lines to be successful but they help. Tony Rom0 got a 12 win season last year because they improved his offensive line but before that he was always right there at the end of the season flirting with the playoffs. 

[Burgold]

What does it then say to you that none of the 20 other QBs minus one actually left here and went on to have success on other teams. The one exception was of course Brad Johnson who we decided not to re-sign who went on to win a Superbowl in Tampa off the back of a dominating defense?

It says to me that if you get a car in a series of major accidents it may not drive well even if after it is bought and run by someone else.

 

Our approach has been--

 

Look, I just got a really great steering wheel.  It's such a beautiful steering wheel.

Don't you need wheels?

This is the greatest steering wheel ever!

Does your car have an engine?

I love my steering wheel!

Is there any gas in the tank?

I have a steering wheel!  I have a steering wheel! Y'all are just jealous of my steering wheel.

 

(three years later)

 

What's wrong?

I didn't get anywhere.

Hmmm... what's wrong with the car?

Needs a new steering wheel.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Draft Mariotta.  Trade Griffin for whatever you could get.  Roll out Kirk Cousins for a couple of years until Mariotta learns how to play the position (Re-up Kirk for two incentive-laden years).  If Kirk plays great then we can flip him for a high pick.  If he stinks then the team will end up with another high draft pick to parlay into multiple picks to fill out the rest of the team.

 

Win-Win!

 

Yeah, a lot of teams assemble the best players that they can. When a log-jam happens to occur at a position, they cash in those assets. It's not a ridiculous way to operate at all. In your above scenario (assuming Cousins plays well), you could either unload Cousins whose value will have increased or you can let him continue to lead the team and unload Mariota. Only here, after nearly 25 years of having NO answer at the position, do we stress out about this hypothetical scenario in which we have TOO MANY good QBs. 

 

Let's sit back and let Scot McCloughan build this team and hope that a couple years from now we are ready to compete. I think we can trust him enough, given his track record, to assume that he will only sign and draft players if he has a long-term plan for them. 

[TexasSkinsFan]

It says to me that if you get a car in a series of major accidents it may not drive well even if after it is bought and run by someone else.

 

Our approach has been--

 

Look, I just got a really great steering wheel.  It's such a beautiful steering wheel.

Don't you need wheels?

This is the greatest steering wheel ever!

Does your car have an engine?

I love my steering wheel!

Is there any gas in the tank?

I have a steering wheel!  I have a steering wheel! Y'all are just jealous of my steering wheel.

 

(three years later)

 

What's wrong?

I didn't get anywhere.

Hmmm... what's wrong with the car?

Needs a new steering wheel.

 

I understand your point, don't get me wrong but the results across the league do not really agree with that assessment. Not every team that ex Redskins Qbs went to had the same issues the Redskins team did and none of these ex QBs found success elsewhere minus one guy we let go of too early. There are guys damaged like David Carr was and there are guys not injured and Campbell and the rest were not beaten up like that.

 

I personally don't think dominating offensive lines are necessary for a QB to succeed so but I understand the value in that and it helps. Good example like I brought up discussing Bradford here yesterday was Matthew Stafford. Drafted on a 0 win team he played 13 games his first two years in the league total and was beaten up and injured both years. But even just starting 13 games over his first two years he still had games of throwing 5 TD passes (youngest player to do that in NFL history) with those bad teams. He was shining even with missing pieces all around him. He showed his ability even with bad lines

 

To me there are very few perfect teams with out holes in them. The best teams last year - Patriots, Colts, Ravens, Seahawks, Packers, Broncos - They all had major holes on those teams but managed to have great seasons despite that. A great QB can do that, a marginal/average whatever you call them can not do that (Rom0 without that offensive line is a good example of an average guy becoming great when he has a great line but even without that he was winning more then half his starts).

 

When Russell Wilson was drafted in 2012 he wasn't supposed to be the starter, the Seahawks paid 20 million to Matt Flynn to be the starter but Flynn struggled behind that offensive line and Wilson didn't and the rest is history. Not all players are created equal and have the same skill set. Cousins for example can run an offense better then Griffin but he can't handle any pressure and makes too many mistakes. Griffin can handle pressure better then Cousins but doesn't progress through his reads or make the throws needed as good as Cousins. Each player has his own successes and things he needs to work on. They could use a better line (Offensive) but we aren't ever going to build a top 10 team and then draft someone to captain the ship. It rarely works that way. The horse that pulls the buggy is the QB, the buggy without the horse is parked. Just how I see it

[Burgold]

Oh, I think Ramsey got beaten up at least to the David Carr level. Campbell, if you recall, got hit A LOT. Turned him into captain check down part II.

 

I agree that the line isn't everything, but while a great QB can make a middling line good. A good/great QB is likely to flounder and see his potential erased by a poor/bad line.

 

I'd argue that our line play over the last five years in pass pro was in the bad range. Hell, Shanahan used to brag that he schemed it so the defensive ends didn't even have to be blocked. I went to training camp last year (the scrimmage against the Pats) and I can't tell you how many times Polumbus couldn't even get a finger tip on his man.  That doesn't include the wretched guard play.

 

I don't need the second coming of the Hogs, but I do want us to at least develop a mediocre line and a defense that can force a punt or two when the game counts.

[Probos]

eagles are taking mariotta hands down no question, they will move above us to make sure it happens.

 

 

chip's quote says it all

"Marcus is best quarterback in the draft. We will never mortgage our future to go up and get someone like that."

 

they will not mortgage their future because they will not.

 

- trade bradford (eat his salary cap hit)

- trade eagle's first round

- trade second round

- trade third round

 

They have no other positions to draft as QB is their main missing piece, so rounds 1-3 picks mean nothing to the eagles. therefore trading those picks is not mortgaging their future. gg nfc east.

 

I said it yesterday -- I still think Chip wants him boy Marus badly and will package up a deal and offer it to the Titans.  But I also think the Titans highly interested in drafting Mariota themselves.

 

I think it's unlikely he falls to us at 5.

[cakmoney61]

I think we all (or most) would agree that, if you were starting a team from scratch and you could pick any players in the NFL from other teams, your first player would be who you think is the best QB.  The teams with the best QBs usually make the playoffs and win the super bowls.

 

Perfect example:  Does anyone think New England can win the super bowl without Revis?  Do you think they can win it without Tom Brady?  Having a great QB is also essential to long-term success.

 

If the Redskins GM/FO think Mariota is a franchise QB and don't draft him, they should be fired for malpractice.  If they don't think he's "the guy," trade with someone who does or draft whoever they believe is best for what they are trying to accomplish.  It really is that simple. 

 

I will definitely support whatever they decide to do, because, until proven otherwise, I believe in our new GM.

[Wildbunny]

There's so many stories that goes against it Cak... Dan Marino comes first to mind, or Joe Gibbs Redskins. Lately, I would say that Baltimore or even Tampa won it without great QB play. Flacco's not bad, he's even good, but he's no Tom Brady or Montana. Great QB helps, but it's not the only way to win SB.

 

All of those teams, on the opposite, had great lines, be it offensive or defensively (or both). That's where it all start and end in the NFL: Trenches. Every plays start like this one:

 

[cakmoney61]

There's so many stories that goes against it Cak... Dan Marino comes first to mind, or Joe Gibbs Redskins. Lately, I would say that Baltimore or even Tampa won it without great QB play. Flacco's not bad, he's even good, but he's no Tom Brady or Montana. Great QB helps, but it's not the only way to win SB.

 

All of those teams, on the opposite, had great lines, be it offensive or defensively (or both). That's where it all start and end in the NFL: Trenches. Every plays start like this one:

 

 

That's why I said "most" would pick the best QB first.  There certainly have been exceptional defenses that have led teams to super bowl wins.  It's true that "teams" win super bowls.  I still say, the "one" player that makes the biggest impact is the QB, whether he be great or awful, especially when talking about long-term success or failure.

 

So, if given the opportunity, you would take a great player from another position? 

[ILikeBilly]

.... Lately, I would say that Baltimore or even Tampa won it without great QB play. Flacco's not bad, he's even good, but he's no Tom Brady or Montana. Great QB helps, but it's not the only way to win SB.

 

 

Not to be argumentative, but Flacco did things in the playoffs that NO QB has done before him.  #of TDs without an INT, most playoff wins by a 3rd yrs QB...  Plus, if the NFL would have done an inside 2 minutes left in the game review of the potential TD pass at the end of the AFC championship game from 2 or 3 years ago, the Ravens (and Flacco) would have beaten the pats and Flacco would have another SB game on his resume. 

 

( and just so no one argues, I am not saying the pass was a complete, but close enough for review.  If you have the review, then the field goal attempt would not have been rushed.  The entire special teams unit was late getting on the field because the refs screwed up (or as I like to say - made a call to favor the cheaters.)  It then would have been an easy FG....)

[dcdiscokid]

Yes that's exactly what I am saying. As a fan I know you see the QB and believe he is the most important part of the machine but he is not. What makes the machine strong is your O-line, and D-line. CB right now is the premium position in the NFL and there's no coincidence why the teams with the two best CBs in the game were in the Super Bowl.  Your argument concerning the QB was had by many that last several years. Sam Bradford, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert.. All of which were ranked very high. All of which people screamed to draft.. all of which have NEVER done anything in the NFL. 

 

Any NFL GM will tell you... unless you have Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning waiting in the wings.. They'll take a DT, OLB, LT or CB everyday and twice on Sundays before they take a QB. 

FWIW, my thoughts exactly. MM is not a cant miss prospect, and based on history I would venture to say has a significantly better chance of being a bust rather than a pro bowler. You have to roll with the qb's you have and take BPA...  Now if SM really feels he is the BPA pick then I wont argue it, but just cant see how he will come to that conclusion with what will likely be on the board at 5.

[gbear]

What does it then say to you that none of the 20 other QBs minus one actually left here and went on to have success on other teams. The one exception was of course Brad Johnson who we decided not to re-sign who went on to win a Superbowl in Tampa off the back of a dominating defense? None of the others did anything here or there regardless of the teams they were on which to me shows the talent vs the team they were on. I can't wrap my head around that. Or what about Luck taking his team to the playoffs after being drafted and his team won two games the year before. Or how Griffin helped take us to the playoffs after we drafted him and he joined a 5 win team. QB's don't need dominating lines to be successful but they help. Tony Rom0 got a 12 win season last year because they improved his offensive line but before that he was always right there at the end of the season flirting with the playoffs. 

I'm not sure what you mean by none of them went on to have successful years.

 

Rich Gannon was the NFL MVP one year

Stan Humphries is on the Chargers Ring of Honor

Green was having a huge preseason for the Rams before getting hurt, but he was traded to the Chiefs where he had a good career too.

Brad Johnson you mentioned.

 

I will grant you that is only 4 of the 20, but it does go towards the argument we don't have the surrounding parts to make the most of good quarterbacks.  Until we do, we will probably keep giving away or ruining the "could be good" QBs who come here.

[mojo]

Just a hypothetical but the way the Saints are cleaning made me wonder.  What if they offered us Brees for the 5th pick?  What would you do?   

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just a hypothetical but the way the Saints are cleaning made me wonder.  What if they offered us Brees for the 5th pick?  What would you do?   

 

I'd personally pass unless the price tag was much lower. He's 36 years old and will be even older before we have a shot to build a team around him. Look at it this way...if it was just as simple as having a Brees-caliber QB, why would he be available? Why would a decent team like NO be ready to start over at QB, yet a team that's already rebuilding (us) want to take on a 36-year old? 

 

Edited...he's already 36, not 35. 

[sportjunkie07]

I'm going to laugh my head off if the Bucs draft Mariota first overall.

Lol I've been thinking the same thing. It would just be too funny.

[Idaho fan]

The drama is going to end quickly when the first two picks are both for QBs by the current teams picking #1 and #2.  

 

Still thinking we go BPA which will be at DL.

[cakmoney61]

After his pro day, Mariota may not even be drafted in the top 10.  The draft will be interesting.

[maskedsuperstar]

Eagles don't have enough ammo too move from 20 to 2. They screwed up. Chip lied yesterday at his press conference. What team would offer a #1 pick for a QB that can't stay healthy? Bradford said this morning that he is not sure when he's going to be healthy.

This talk of Tennessee taking Bradford and the Eagles moving to the #2 spot is flat out hilarious.

Bottom line is that the Eagles fans will chasing Chip Kelly down Broad St., with pitch forks at the end of the season.

[Brokenstriker]

Same here.  I applaud the bunny.

Bunny...cakes?

[TexasSkinsFan]

After his pro day, Mariota may not even be drafted in the top 10.  The draft will be interesting.

 

I don't believe pro days erase 3 years of film

[HigSkin]

I don't think the Eagles ever intended to move up to #2, I think they are eyeing #6, the Jets spot.  I could see Bradford as a Jet.  Hope the Browns fall in love with MM cause it seems they might be the only other trade suitor at #5.