Potential Trade Partners if Mariota Falls

[TexasSkinsFan]

Skins gonna restart FROM SCRATCH with ANOTHER read option QB that isn't even as good as Griffin? Huh?

 

Of all potential scenarios for next season ... drafting Mariota has to be the most improbable and illogical.

 

Wrong. There are more reasons TO draft him then to not draft him. Please show me why feel its "illogical" to do this I want to hear an argument as to why this is a bad move. I want to hear your "logic"...Here is mine

 

1. They have no QB signed past 2015. Drafting Mariotta would mean they have their guy for the next 4 years at least if they kept him. What they do with him is up to them. Sign and trade ala Eli Manning, sign and keep for a year then trade him for more then a first round pick ala Steve Walsh, lots of options here. Keep Sign whatever

 

2. Every time the last 15 years the Redskins actually drafted a 1st round QB they "liked" two things happened. First the guy sucked, second and most important they had to give future picks to get who they liked. Here if he is there at 5 we avoid repeating that mistake.  Or next year when they are drafting a QB in the first round again expect it to cost us future picks like the last three guys did too

 

3. The QB's they have now on the last years of the deal can be traded now for future picks and that would avoid watching them leave next year when we get nothing for them. If you want you can trade for more picks with the 2nd round pick its high enough teams will want it.

 

4. No one said that the QB had to start this year first game, we did that before and it doesn't work. He can sit on the bench and learn, we can play someone else next year it's a lost season anyway, and prepare him for 2016 if he's not traded already. Starting over is coming. It could be this year, or it will be next year, pick your poison but believe me it's coming

 

5. Keeps this guy off the Eagles. If your one of these posters around here who think Chip Kelly is a genius then you do not want to give a genius his prized QB in the NFL. To do that is irresponsible and moronic. You don't do that no matter what he's offering you. If we with no QB gave Chip Kelly a QB he coveted and he turned into a top 10 QB in the league then you have just filled 1000 papers and stories with how absolutely stupid your team is. I would honestly give up our 7th round pick this year just to ensure that Mariotta goes to an AFC team to keep that noise down

 

6. Isn't as good as Griffin? Have you not watched a bit of the games the past two years? It's time that you face it that the QB that Griffin was in 2012 is gone. He threw 4 TD passes in 9 games last year man ranking 40th in production in this league the guy is garbage now. Before the injury he was awesome, after it yea he sucks sorry but it's true. If you don't see that yet you will next year. I don't think Griffin is ever going to turn into an NFL QB in this league he sucks. So does Cousins. Both are off the team next year. Who the hell knows if Mariota is better then those guys, I'm not some hyped up draftnick today. I'm talking about brass tacks, real stuff and to claim that Griffin is better then anyone to me is wrong. He isn't even as good as Colt Mccoy or Kirk Cousins

 

7. Salary cap taking a Qb at 5th would give us a huge saving, allowing us to spend more money elsewhere. Josh McCown signed a backup deal in Cleveland for 15 million over 3 years and he is awful. The 5th pick will sign a 18 million dollar contract for four years. Re-signing Cousins or Griffin will cost much more then that. If you want some serious cap savings then the draft is the way to go.

 

Now I will surrender and give it to you. To call the idea illogical makes no sense, it's completely logical. unlikely and illogical are not the same things. What is illogical is to think that Cousins and Griffin are going to suddenly flip a switch this offseason and play like a franchise QB should next year. That's illogical

As a long suffering skins fan however I fully expect us to stay put and draft a defensive back.

 

I will add that as a long suffering skins fan I expect something like that and I also expect them to draft the next year a QB and it cost us at the minimum at least one first round pick to get him and after the Griffin trade I'm actually afraid of what that next QB is going to cost us.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Hankersonfan ... come on now

[TexasSkinsFan]

They will have leverage by who may take him after #5. The Jets (#6) and the Bears (#7) could definitely draft a QB. 

 

Also, I don't watch much CFB, but isn't Mariotta also coming from a non-traditional offense and would be subject to the same weaknesses and time needed to grow as Griffin. I'm surprised members who've been very outspoken on wanting to be rid of Griffin for those very reasons, would be willing to draft another QB to go through the same struggles for the next 3 years. 

 

For me your forgetting one very very important difference here. To me Griffin worked in 2012. Up until the Ravens ruined his career. Before the injury he was fine, he adjusted to the league, was making plays, and isn't struggling now because of what offense he ran in college. Very very few colleges run a prostyle offense and just because a college QB played in a prostyle offsense doesn't mean he's going to be good at it in the pros. And the NFL over the past three years has been running more and more spread offenses like they run in college, on teams like the Patriots and the Packers so the style of offense isn't a big deal. You just can't get over the knee issues that ruined Griffin. And you can't sign him to a second contract for fear of ripping up that ACL again. He was fine, until that ACL and since then has been trash (4 wins 17 losses, last years 9 games played and threw 4 TD passes that will never get it done) at least to me. Mariotta doesn't have that issue

Hankersonfan ... come on now

 

I will ask it again

 

Please show me why feel its "illogical" to do this I want to hear an argument as to why this is a bad move. I want to hear your "logic"

 

There is no other single position in the NFL that dictates success like the QB position. Without one you can have the baddest defensive line (Miami) and you won't win anything. You can have the best trio of WR's (Redskins Bears) and you won't win anything. You can have the baddest anything but if your QB is garbage then your season is ruined. Each and every single year this is proven. No other position is as important as that one. And until you get your QB you will be stuck searching for him again and again and again

 

Robert Griffin III

Kirk Cousins

Colt McCoy

Rex Grossman

John Beck

Donovan McNabb

Jason Campbell

Todd Collins

Mark Brunell

Patrick Ramsey

Tim Hasselbeck

Shane Matthews

Danny Wuerffel

Tony Banks

Jeff George

Brad Johnson

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Please show me why feel its "illogical" to do this I want to hear an argument as to why this is a bad move. I want to hear your "logic"

1. You currently have two QBs on your roster that could be the long-term solution for the team, with one potentially being able to re-attain that superstar status.

 

2. As a franchise, you have focused on QBs in the 1st round over the last 2 decades and it has yet to work.

 

3. You have failed to build a TEAM through the draft. It has failed.

 

4. You have a new GM who has experience/tends to draft mid-round players and wait until one is a "hit" v. going all-in on an early round talent.

 

5. This team has a TON of holes all over the roster, and believe it or not, QB is far from the "worst" position.

 

6. Drama ... we don't want it. We are sick of it. Drafting Mariota = drama

I just can't possibly fathom how anyone can look at our roster and say 'DRAFT A DEVELOPMENTAL QB!" ... we have one guy with one more year who could potentially be our future at QB and if he sucks to start off the season we have a back-up that many think is capable of being a quality starter. Explain to me how it is logical to draft a developmental QB when you have two options in-house plus so many needs elsewhere?

Plus, let's not forget that we might be able to parlay Mariota into multiple picks this year and in the future. Not only to build the team, but accelerate the build through the draft mentality. 

 

What if you can get 1-3 this year from Philly and 1-3 next year for Mariota and RGIII regains 2012 form? Then what?

I would say there's just as much of a chance that RGIII regains 75-80% of his 2012 form and leads this team as the future and franchise going forward, as there is for the Mariota to develop into a Top 5-10 QB. 

[Rodriggo]

Wrong. There are more reasons TO draft him then to not draft him.

 

Not really. This team has needs everywhere, especially defensively where the top end of this draft is deep .... so they're gonna blow that opportunity while at the same time throwing out not one but two young, potential starting QBs they are already in the process of developing RIGHT NOW for just another huge question mark that is at mile zero on his journey. Not a slam dunk mind you, a spread/read option guy that did not play or run a pro style offense, ANOTHER guy that will have to put his "floaties" on when he jumps in the NFL deep end.

 

Skins are not gonna draft a QB at 5, they're ESPECIALLY not gonna draft a guy like Mariota. There is no way that is going to happen.

[arftech]

Rinse and Repeat:  The Skins should not draft Mariota!

 

HTTR!

[TexasSkinsFan]

>>>>1. You currently have two QBs on your roster that could be the long-term solution for the team, with one potentially being able to re-attain that superstar status.

Show me anything about Griffin the past two seasons that makes you think he can re-attain that status? If he were able he would have and he hasn't. And since he's in the last year of his deal how much more time are you giving him? Cousins was a project from jump street and he put up more numbers then Griffin in less time that doesn't mean he will become a superstar. The past has shown us both that neither of these guys is the long term answer but in the what if's case say both do better next year. Who do you sign? Who do you cut? What do you pay that man? Good luck with all that


>>>>2. As a franchise, you have focused on QBs in the 1st round over the last 2 decades and it has yet to work.

So you want to never draft a QB again? That's not logical. How can you ignore that every time they did draft a QB they were not in a position to take someone without moving up which cost us more picks? That is where we are now. They have taken 3 QB's in the first round in the past 18 years and each time it cost us future picks. I believe you should take the QB when it makes sense to do, it makes sense now to do that. It wouldn't cost us more then one pick, it wouldn't cost any future picks, and we have no QB's signed right now for the 2016 season. Perfect setup. I'm sorry but you may be tired of drafting QB's in the first round but the team can not stop doing that until they get it right. Doesn't mean we do it every year, but in years like this we should because it makes more sense then to sign Cousins or Griffin to long term deals next offseason

>>>>>3. You have failed to build a TEAM through the draft. It has failed.

I have failed to do nothing other then to win you over and get you to see the many many reasons why taking a QB this year makes sense. I realize with your response that I will never be able to do that because you don't like drafting QB's I guess.

>>>>>4. You have a new GM who has experience/tends to draft mid-round players and wait until one is a "hit" v. going all-in on an early round talent.

All in? Are you serious? How are we "All in" taking one player at the 5th draft spot then any other position? I don't get that. If you take a CB at #5 your no more All in vs taking a QB there.

>>>>>5. This team has a TON of holes all over the roster, and believe it or not, QB is far from the "worst" position.

So your drafting for "need" then? Another discussion I guess but you saying it's not the "worst" position means you don't see it as a need. Well it i , you have to think about this and next season. #4 also said that you believe in our GM getting players out of the draft right? Well those "worse" areas can be addressed with other picks right?

>>>>>6. Drama ... we don't want it. We are sick of it. Drafting Mariota = drama

Not drafting him and passing on him equals drama too. Trading the right to the Eagles to draft him equals way way more drama. There is drama all over this if we do it or if we don't do it.

>>>>>I just can't possibly fathom how anyone can look at our roster and say 'DRAFT A DEVELOPMENTAL QB!" ... we have one guy with one more year who could potentially be our future at QB and if he sucks to start off the season we have a back-up that many think is capable of being a quality starter. Explain to me how it is logical to draft a developmental QB when you have two options in-house plus so many needs elsewhere?

It's obvious you've not read anything I've said here yet. Why would you ask me this when I've stated in detail about those two options. Go read my posts and you will see why contract year players who have disappointed for the past two years is not something I want to hitch the wagon to but you do. One good year from either of the two equals one big ass contract we are anchored to. We don't want to pay that and that's best case they do great. One bad year means we go into the draft next year with everyone knowing we need a QB. You should take a QB at the right time and telegraphing your moves to the rest of the league, AFTER getting ripped off on the last trade almost guarantees your going to get ripped off again

 

>>>>>What if you can get 1-3 this year from Philly and 1-3 next year for Mariota and RGIII regains 2012 form? Then what?

What if you get those picks from Philly and they go on to win the Superbowl and they become an elite team? Then what? Truth is we will be ripped apart for that forever. You do not ever trade a potential franchise QB to a division foe. NEVER under any circumstances should you do that no matter the picks. Your suggesting that the first move that Scott makes as an NFL GM is to give the Eagles a franchise QB? Never going to happen
 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Alright, it's just as clear to me that as much as I disagree with your points, you disagree with mine. So we're at an impasse, and I'll leave it at that.

[RawBBQSauce]

It's not going to play out like we all want it to. Mariota will be picked by Tennessee or someone will jump to #2 to pick him. Then we'll draft Randy Gregory.

 

[Wildbunny]

Don't feel like quoting your whole post Hankersonfan, but there's lots of thing that are wrong with your thinking.

 

#1 Is that, Cousins (check the ESPN Cousins thread for more info) was pretty good except for two games. That our HC likes him, and Griffin did show some improvment after his benching. Also stated in another thread Griffin had to go through lots of things since the beginning of his career (OROY, dreadful injury, new coach, new scheme, no QB coach last year, troubles with Shanny just to name a few). Last two seasons have been disappointed, that's for sure, but both aren't done in the NFL now. Griffin remains a question mark because of his injuries, but Cousins might turn into something with more playing time and a better OL.

 

#2 Since our HC doesn't have resigned on any QB, it doesn't make sense to draft Mariotta that wouldn't suits his scheme as well. At least, Griffin as a season under it, and thus, a better understanding of it.

 

#3 We really do have worse holes on our roster than QB. But if you think that going elsewhere than QB is drafting for need, Then you're missing the point. Mariota is not the 5th best player available in this draft. I'm not even sure he's first round materials. Check Mike Mayock. Going NT, CB, OG (Scherff?), OT are more pressing needs. I'll had S as well, but there' no SS worth it anyway.

 

#4 Drafting Mariota a super hype prospect to bench him any given sunday as 3rd QB will be drama all you want, and much more. Now, in your whole list of examples I'm not sure you went through the possibility than Mariota sucks elsewhere and Cousins/Griffin turns out good. Or the possibiliy that Mariota sucks for us and Cousins/Griffin shine elsewhere (Cousins might really be able to rebound elsewhere).

 

#5 Chip Kelly is no genius. He just inherited a good team and his picking its offense apart. Just like Steve Spurrier. Only difference is Steve Spurrier didn't inherited a good team. But, Maclin, DJax, McCoy, Cole, Foles some of those guys out there must be wondering if their numbers will be the next one called... Hard to trust your coach, when he's throwing your best players away. That could backfire quite quickly.

 

#6 Mariota, a Franchise QB? Thought that was guys like Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees or Tom Brady. Mariota have done squat in the NFL so far, and have bust written all over him.

[Rodriggo]

Show me anything about Griffin the past two seasons that makes you think he can re-attain that status? If he were able he would have and he hasn't. And since he's in the last year of his deal how much more time are you giving him? Cousins was a project from jump street and he put up more numbers then Griffin in less time that doesn't mean he will become a superstar. The past has shown us both that neither of these guys is the long term answer but in the what if's case say both do better next year. Who do you sign? Who do you cut? What do you pay that man? Good luck with all that

 

Mariota will barely be ready to be a starting QB three years FROM NOW. Are you ready to show him the patience you are not showing Griffin (passé around here) but also now Cousins (breaking new ground here)? If you are, go for Mariota. Me personally I'd rather continue to watch Scot stockpile big fat boys that knock people in the mouth and let average LBs, CBs, WRs, and QBs make plays behind them.

[Gamebreaker]

For me your forgetting one very very important difference here. To me Griffin worked in 2012. Up until the Ravens ruined his career. Before the injury he was fine, he adjusted to the league, was making plays, and isn't struggling now because of what offense he ran in college. Very very few colleges run a prostyle offense and just because a college QB played in a prostyle offsense doesn't mean he's going to be good at it in the pros. And the NFL over the past three years has been running more and more spread offenses like they run in college, on teams like the Patriots and the Packers so the style of offense isn't a big deal. You just can't get over the knee issues that ruined Griffin. And you can't sign him to a second contract for fear of ripping up that ACL again. He was fine, until that ACL and since then has been trash (4 wins 17 losses, last years 9 games played and threw 4 TD passes that will never get it done) at least to me. Mariotta doesn't have that issue

 

 

The problem with development has less to do with the style of offense these QBs play in, and more to do with their lack of experience in route trees and being comfortable in the pocket. Yes, some teams are using a lot of spread principles in their packages, but is Jay Gruden doing that with his offense? Tell me how this makes sense for his offense? 

[Rodriggo]

Tell me how this makes sense for his offense? 

 

It would make more sense to me that they trade for Dalton or Bradford over drafting Mariota and I would probably have to call out sick from work for a solid week from the shock/depression of such a thing happening.

[cakmoney61]

Truth is we have no idea what the redskins front office is thinking right now. They could see Griffin as a total bust or as the future. They could see Mariotta as what RG3 was supposed to be or as a failed NFL experiment waiting to happen. Who knows? What we do know is that winning in this league requires a QB so if they don't like the ones this team has they'll be thinking about getting one somewhere.

It does benefit the team to at least seem open to the possibility of drafting one of the two QBs if only to bring in trade partners should either fall to us at 5.

 

If the Redskins are interested in drafting Mariota, it behooves them to keep their mouths shut.  Otherwise, someone will trade with a team to get in front of the Redskins.  I would not be at all surprised if the Redskins drafted Mariota if he drops to them. 

 

The question is "How do the Redskins feel about him?"  If they see him as another RG3, they will not draft him.  If they see him as a smarter, more mature version of RG3, then anything's possible.

[Destino]

Bradford doesn't make sense for anyone because he can't stay healthy and he hasn't been great. He just throws a good looking ball so people want to believe. He's a often injured Jay Cutler.

[TK]

Truth is we have no idea what the redskins front office is thinking right now. They could see Griffin as a total bust or as the future. 

It's actually a little bit mixed because of the picks they gave up to move up to get him at #2, thus knowing they have to be patient to get the return on their investment. His rookie season is still fresh in some minds & after 2 injuried seasons they'd like see if he can come anywhere near it again. 

[RedBeast]

Josh Rosen 2020. Mark it down.

4 more years of whatever mediocrity until we draft him

[lavar1156]

If the Eagles trade up to #6 we should draft Mariota at #5 and hold him for a ransom.

[isle-hawg]

That's not even me speaking about the ramifications of giving a team in our division a potential franchise QB and what that could do to our future and how bad of an idea that would be, or how we could always trade someone to get more picks these assets we have. Steve Walsh was a first round pick who was traded the next season for a first round pick plus more picks. Or how few QB's in this league actually start off as badly as Griffin has been playing and ever turn the career around (Unless you want to mention more then a decade ago of some outliers).

Your post reminds me of the the cowpukes passing on Montana who was highest rated on their draft board because they they were vested in their current QB who won them as many SBs as RG3 for us.

[Cool as Crud]

I'm not sure why so many people think it would be crazy for the Browns to trade their 12th and 19th picks to the Redskins to draft Mariota at # 5 overall. After what the Skins gave up in 2012 to jump 4 spots, 2 mid-round firsts to leapfrog 7 teams doesn't exactly shock the conscience. The Browns can't possibly believe Manziel or McCown are the long-term answer. Why wouldn't they take a shot on Mariota?

[ak2vegas]

Draft Mariota? NO.

[MartinC]

If the Eagles trade up to #6 we should draft Mariota at #5 and hold him for a ransom.

A agreement on a trade to #6 would not be made public and would be conditional on Mariotta making it past #5. The trade would only happen AFTER our pick. Drafting to trade is not something that's going to happen.

[Rskins06]

A agreement on a trade to #6 would not be made public and would be conditional on Mariotta making it past #5. The trade would only happen AFTER our pick. Drafting to trade is not something that's going to happen.

So you don't believe FO will know about a potential trade up before the pick?  My guess is agents would let things slip in an attempt to get their client drafted a little higher.  If there is a deal at 6, (as an agent), why would I not let a little birdie out hoping I could get him drafted one spot higher so there could be more money.

 

Not disagreeing with you, but the way information leaks, could see something like this.  Obviously, if this were to happen, the trade for the 6 position would be off and the Eagles (or whomever) would not lose anything (except Mariota).

[MartinC]

So you don't believe FO will know about a potential trade up before the pick?  My guess is agents would let things slip in an attempt to get their client drafted a little higher.  If there is a deal at 6, (as an agent), why would I not let a little birdie out hoping I could get him drafted one spot higher so there could be more money.

 

Not disagreeing with you, but the way information leaks, could see something like this.  Obviously, if this were to happen, the trade for the 6 position would be off and the Eagles (or whomever) would not lose anything (except Mariota).

What agents are involved in the trade of draft picks between teams? Players agents only get involved once a players drafted. Very few people would be on the know on a deal like that.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

If the Browns land Revis ... they'll still have more $$ to spend ... and they'll need to go out some WR help for their offense ... and possibly an upgrade at QB. I would keep my eyes on them for re-emerging to trade up to #5. They cuold do it for Cooper/White (whoever Oakland doesn't take) knowing both St. Louis and Minnesota could be looking WR ... they desperately need one (or two) ... or they could even make a play to move up for our pick if Mariota is there.

 

I'd also be curious ... with two 1sts and a dire need at WR ... would the Browns be willing to give a big offer to either Dez or Demaryius, and pay the price of the 1st/1st Tender? Might be worth it