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2015 Washington Nationals Thread - Hot Stove News: Daniel Murphy signed, Phillips is an idiot.

Riggo#44

By Riggo#44
in The Tailgate

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JamesMadisonSkins

JamesMadisonSkins

Posted
Posted

We can't block our future Starters. Giolito Lopez Cole Fedde need spots. So we need open spots in the rotation.

Turner n Difo are the future SS/2B. Wonder what Rizzo is looking to get back in a trade.

Can never have too many pitchers! Or hitters, for that matter ...

 

You can even start looking 5-6 years down the line if you're talking about guys just drafted who are out of HS and 17-18. 

 

 

I think you could target a 1B, SS, 3B, 2B, etc. Difo might be the future at 2B but it couldn't hurt to have another utility option in the system in case he doesn't pan out. 

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Desmond IS one of the best SS in baseball and replacing him will not be easy. He's also a locker room leader. And he was one of our only players who actually hit well in the NLDS in 2012.

But on a team with Rendon, Harper, Zimmerman, and Werth, I'd sacrifice his power at the SS position for a better approach at the plate and better defense. We have the power hitters to drive in runs in the middle of the line up. We'd score more runs by getting someone that gets on base more. A SS that can hit in the 2 hole would really be nice. Only a matter of time before Rendon becomes a mainstay batting third.

We can't block our future Starters. Giolito Lopez Cole Fedde need spots. So we need open spots in the rotation.

Turner n Difo are the future SS/2B. Wonder what Rizzo is looking to get back in a trade.

Scherzer isn't going to block our prospects because I'm pretty sure we're not going to keep Zimmermann or Fister.

Also, prospects that are years away from the majors under the best case scenarios don't factor into the decision of whether or not to sign a recent Cy Young winner.

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StillUnknown

StillUnknown

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Rizzo is becoming a victim of his own successes. This team has achieved what they have largely on the backs of homegrown players. Those same homegrown players are due for massive increases in pay, but you can't pay everybody. Add to the fact that this group of homegrown players seems to have issues come postseason, I can understand the logic behind Rizzo's thinking. Hard choices have to be made going forward, the sad reality is that we will lose players we've grown to like around these parts. 

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skinfan2k

skinfan2k

Posted
Posted

Rizzo is becoming a victim of his own successes. This team has achieved what they have largely on the backs of homegrown players. Those same homegrown players are due for massive increases in pay, but you can't pay everybody. Add to the fact that this group of homegrown players seems to have issues come postseason, I can understand the logic behind Rizzo's thinking. Hard choices have to be made going forward, the sad reality is that we will lose players we've grown to like around these parts. 

 

How many home grown players have we let go away so far? 0?  We are only getting rid of 2 out of how many home grown players.  the ones we are getting rid are the least important ones 

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StillUnknown

StillUnknown

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How many home grown players have we let go away so far? 0?  We are only getting rid of 2 out of how many home grown players.  the ones we are getting rid are the least important ones 

 

I don't disagree. Desi has grown on me over time, but I don't think he's the type of player that will age well at all. If things were equal, I would rather have Zimm than Scherzer moving forward, but it all depends on what Zimm was asking in a contract.

 

You almost have to assume that Rizzo and crew offered Zimm a deal similar to what Scherzer signed. If Zimm turns that down, I can see how Rizzo would want to move in a different direction. Seems Zimm has been eyeing free agency for a while, maybe he thinks he can do better on the open market.

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Slateman

Slateman

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A) makes too many errors B) OBP is awful C) doesn't take a lot of pitches D) takes 0 walks

Had the highest walk rate of his career last season

We can't block our future Starters. Giolito Lopez Cole Fedde need spots. So we need open spots in the rotation.

Turner n Difo are the future SS/2B. Wonder what Rizzo is looking to get back in a trade.

Difo has a long way to go and a lot can happen before then. You can never have too much talent in the system. Period. You use that talent like amoney market account. Put it away, let it grow a bit, and get what you need when you need it.

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Bacon

Bacon

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I don't disagree. Desi has grown on me over time, but I don't think he's the type of player that will age well at all. If things were equal, I would rather have Zimm than Scherzer moving forward, but it all depends on what Zimm was asking in a contract.

You almost have to assume that Rizzo and crew offered Zimm a deal similar to what Scherzer signed. If Zimm turns that down, I can see how Rizzo would want to move in a different direction. Seems Zimm has been eyeing free agency for a while, maybe he thinks he can do better on the open market.

And that's the thing: we don't know what's going on behind closed doors. The idea of Zimmermann rejecting the offer we gave Scherzer is obscene, but it's possible. Furthermore, this deal is likely just one piece of the puzzle. For all we know, this is the first domino that could lead to some big changes.

But I do agree with what others have posted: we need someone ready to replace Clip. How confident are we in the BP as it stands?

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BRAVEONAWARPATH

BRAVEONAWARPATH

Posted
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http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/now-with-max-scherzer-nationals-rotation-could-be-historically-elite/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

 

 

Now with Max Scherzer, Nationals’ rotation could be historically elite

 

 

The Nationals have signed right-hander Max Scherzer to a seven-year deal worth more than $180 million, which now gives them a rotation that could be historically great. Even before the addition of Scherzer, it was already going to be tough to deal with, just as it was last season. Now with Scherzer in the fold, Tanner Roark, who had a 2.85 ERA in 31 starts this past season, likely moves to the bullpen until (if) the Nationals trade one of their starters.

 

Here’s a look at how each pitcher has performed over the past three seasons:

 

Name W L GS IP K% BB% GB% HR/FB ERA Tanner Roark 22 11 36 252.1 17.8% 5.0% 43.1% 6.4% 2.57 Jordan Zimmermann 45 22 96 608.2 20.1% 4.5% 43.9% 8.3% 2.96 Stephen Strasburg 37 26 92 557.1 28.0% 6.5% 47.3% 12.0% 3.10 Doug Fister 40 25 83 534.1 17.8% 4.7% 51.7% 10.1% 3.22 Max Scherzer 55 15 97 622.1 28.6% 7.1% 36.5% 8.7% 3.24 Gio Gonzalez 42 26 91 553.2 24.5% 9.1% 45.7% 7.5% 3.25
 

 

 

With Zimmermann set to hit free agency after the season, he appears to be the most likely to be traded. Fister could also be moved, but as he is about three years older than Zimmermann, he wouldn’t bring a comparable return in a trade. Strasburg is reportedly available in a trade, but the Nationals have him under team control through 2016.

 

Since 1969 — when the pitcher’s mound was lowered — only 23 pitching staffs have finished a season with a combined ERA below 3.00, per Baseball Reference. If you exclude the strike-shortened season of 1981, that number falls to 21. The 1972 Orioles, with the four-headed beast of Jim Palmer, Mike Cuellar, Pat Dobson, and Dave McNally have the record for the lowest aggregate ERA for a pitching staff at 2.58. That same year, the Athletics set the second-best rotation ERA at 2.64 behind Catfish Hunter, Ken Holtzman, Blue Moon Odom, Vida Blue, and Dave Hamilton.

 

The most recent threat to the title for best rotation occurred in 2011 with the Phillies (Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Roy Oswalt, Cole Hamels), but their aggregate 2.86 ERA ranks 10th. Adjusted for park factors and league strength, however, they do move up a few notches. The 1992 Braves are the only other rotation on the list since 1990.

 

The Nationals last year led the league in rotation ERA at 3.04 ahead of the Dodgers’ 3.20 mark. Take out Roark, who was a prime regression candidate (his 2.85 ERA beat his xFIP by nearly a full run), with Scherzer, and you have a rotation that could challenge the Phillies as the best modern starting rotation. If the Nationals decide to keep Zimmermann, Fister, and Strasburg, and they enjoy good fortune — both in terms of on-the-field results and pitcher health — they could climb the ranks as one of the best starting rotations in the era of the lowered mound.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

Rizzo is becoming a victim of his own successes. This team has achieved what they have largely on the backs of homegrown players. Those same homegrown players are due for massive increases in pay, but you can't pay everybody. Add to the fact that this group of homegrown players seems to have issues come postseason, I can understand the logic behind Rizzo's thinking. Hard choices have to be made going forward, the sad reality is that we will lose players we've grown to like around these parts.

You're right. But I don't see how signing Scherzer helps that particular problem. If anything, it makes it harder to keep our own.

I don't know, maybe the thinking is pay now to get a few years of the contract over with before we have to pay our young stars? Stagger the big spending by doing some of it a year early?

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chipwhich

chipwhich

Posted
Posted

I love this, the offseason isn't done, we don't know what moves are left, we just signed a great pitcher, and "Rizzo is becoming a victim of his own successes".  This is the opposite of Redskins offseason where we declare Super Bowl, now we are declaring failure.  :lol:

 

Love this place.

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skinfan2k

skinfan2k

Posted
Posted

I love this, the offseason isn't done, we don't know what moves are left, we just signed a great pitcher, and "Rizzo is becoming a victim of his own successes".  This is the opposite of Redskins offseason where we declare Super Bowl, now we are declaring failure.  :lol:

 

Love this place.

 

seriously.  This area is never satisfied.  

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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted

Here's what I think happened:

 

Rizzo goes to Zimm and offers him a similar extension(maybe a little less money, as Scherzer has a little better track record).

 

Zimm says thanks but no thanks, I really want to hit the open market and see what I'm worth.

 

Rizzo realizes this means Zimm is probably gone, so he explores trade options for Zimm.

 

Rizzo sees an opportunity to sign Scherzer, a P who is at least as good and arguably better than Zimm for the money allotted for Zimm, and decides to go for it.

 

 

All in all, I would prefer Zimm over Scherzer since he's a little younger and he's our own, but if he's going to leave anyway, essentially replacing Zimm with Scherzer and then packaging Zimm for prospects to replenish the farm is a pretty wicked move.

 

And if we don't deal Zimm, we roll into 2015 with the best rotation baseball has seen in quite some time. If that wins the World Series, then it's all justified. If it doesn't, well...in all honesty 2015 is World Series or bust anyway.

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SkinsHokieFan

SkinsHokieFan

Posted
Posted

Still need another back of the bullpen arm. Need to shorten the games in October to 6 innings

 

An October rotation of this: Scherzer, Zim, Stras, Fister

 

With Gio/Tanner being your "long guys" or the guy who can come in the 4th if one of the top 4 guys has a bad start, to settle things down and get 3-5 innings 

 

Back of the 'pen: Stammen/Barret/Storen for the 7th, 8th, 9th? Blevins in there as well? Need another arm for innings 6-9 in October

 

I am not concerned at all with the regular season because I think 85 wins gets the division and this was a 90+ win team already that now can get 105 wins.

 

It is getting those 11 wins in October that matter

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SkinsHokieFan

SkinsHokieFan

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Posted

Don't forget Thornton who was a beast at the end of last year and playoffs. I think he can better than just a lefty specialist.

 

And I could see one of our young power arms that was inconsistent as a starter be moved to the 'pen. Someone like Treinen.

 

Forgot about Thornton.

 

Him Blevins and Soriano of all people were excellent against the Giants

 

So again, thinking ahead to October

 

Scherzer

Zim

Stras

Fister

 

Bullpen

 

"Long guys"

Gio

Tanner

 

Back of the pen

 

Thornton

Blevins

Barrett

Stamen

Storen

 

Anyone else missing? Can those guys get to 11? 

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

Scherzer is a better pitcher than Zimmermann. Right now he is anyway. His numbers were almost as good in the AL and he won a Cy Young in 2013. He's been an elite performer the past three years. Zimmermann has been a shade under elite, he's not really a legit Cy Young candidate. He's not that kind of talent. And Zimmermann is younger, but only by two years. Age isn't a huge factor.

If it's Scherzer for 180 million vs Zimmermann for about the same, then Scherzer wins. Especially if you can sign Scherzer and use Zimmermann to bring in significant team building assets.

IMO, what it comes down to is:

1.) How much was Zim actually going to cost to keep?

2.) What can we get in return for trading him?

Also, it's worth discussing whether it should really be Zim or Stras that gets traded now that we can no longer afford to keep them post-Scherzer signing. It'll be Zim that gets moved, but should it be him?

If I were making the choice between Zim and Stras, I'd keep Stras. Zim is a stud and he's been our true ace the past three seasons. He has better mound presence than Strasburg. But Strasburg is special. I think he's got some seasons somewhere on the horizon where he puts it all together and wins some Cy Youngs.

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