balki1867 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Seriously? The airline is responsible for this issue, not the passenger reclining the seat. If one is paying $$ for a seat that offers the option of reclining, and you choose to take advantage of that option, you are not being rude. That's like saying its rude to ask for a refill at dinner when the table next to you hasn't received their drinks yet. Complain to the airline. I'm 6'2, and I know it sucks when the person in front of me reclines. But that isn't their problem. They don't owe me anything, and I don't owe the person behind me anything. We are so damned sensitive nowadays, getting upset because the guy in front of you reclines? Seriously? They paid for the ability to recline. All the things going on in the world and we're concerned about reclining airline seats.... I agree that the airline is responsible for the issue. Given how stupid airline passengers act, I'm amazed the airlines haven't disabled them already. I disagree that you somehow think you paid for the right to recline and watch the mini-TV. If you end up in a row that doesn't recline the airline doesn't refund you because you don't have reclining privileges. Likewise if they have to swap out a plane with TVs for one with no TVs they don't suddenly refund everyone a few bucks because of the change. You paid for a seat to fly from point X to point Y. Everything else is a perk. The issue isn't reclining per se but that some of the reclining devices don't work correctly and might legitimately inconvenience another passenger. I've never had this happen to me, but I've had coworkers share stories where the person in front of them reclined and the seat back was almost in their lap (as a consultant I flew 100+ times last year and have many coworkers who've flown just as much, and wouldn't be irked by something like this unless it was noticeably awry). Calibrating seat recliners isn't exactly at the top of the airplane maintenance list, and if someone ends up in a seat where the recliner might recline a bit too much, two normal human beings should be able resolve that on their own, without one screaming about how much he paid for his plane ticket, which brings me to my last point: "All the things going on in the world and we're concerned about reclining airline seats...." No, we're concerned about the fact that there have been multiple physical altercations that involved air marshals, rerouting flights, and arresting passengers over something as trivial as reclining airplane seats. If those incidents hadn't happened there wouldn't be a random thread on ES asking, "Gee guys do you think its rude to recline your airplane seat? There's never been an incident but I was just wondering." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger.Staubach Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 And what about for international flights, overnight flights, and/or just generally long flights? I tend to not use the recline 'feature' unless I know that the person behind me is either asleep, or leaning back themselves. Even then, I don't usually do it unless I'm traveling abroad or OCONUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 My observation is that the seats on airplanes don't recline far enough to be an issue. I mean really, what you get on a recline? 2 inches back? 3? They call it a "recline" but really it's just a slight amount. I never feel reclined in an airplane recliner. I think that's the problem. I've never had an issue with someone reclining, but the airlines don't exactly check that between flights. If the mechanism breaks and suddenly the seat reclines more than it should the person in that seat feels like they have a birthright to that extra space because they paid for it. Two normal people in any other situation would realize the problem and work it but people are incredibly on-edge when flying and suddenly it becomes the topic of air rage. I totally agree with everyone who blames the airlines for creating the situation, but I don't understand why people can't accomplish a basics of being human beings and figure out a way to sit in close quarters for a few hours without a fistfight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 http://gawker.com/yet-another-flight-diverted-after-battle-over-reclining-1629496138 According to Aaron Klipin, a passenger on Delta Flight 2370, the conflict began when the woman next to him attempted to recline her seat while knitting. From NBC: "This woman who was sitting next to me knitting actually tried reclining her seat back and the woman behind her started screaming and swearing and the flight attendant came over and that just exacerbated what was going on, and then she demanded that the flight land," he said. The screaming woman had been sleeping with her head on the tray table, Klipin said, and swore at flight attendants who attempted to diffuse the situation. She demanded that the plane land, according to Klipin, saying something to the effect of, "I don't care about the consequences. Put this plane down now." Whatever your opinion on reclining, there is not a circle of hell deep enough for anyone who is going to force a plane to land over this. It just seems like it is impossible at this point for Americans, at least, to interact without absolute selfishness at all times. We almost take pride in it. It's like someone telling you, smiling, that they bought an SUV so they'll survive the car wreck. Gee, thanks, I'm looking forward to getting plowed by your Navigator while you text and drink Starbucks, but at least you're alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 How else are you going to be able to prop your feet up to let the air nozzle blow on your junk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Airline has a big fault in this because of them crowding seats in. One fix, to me, is to let people pay for leg room (non-business class). The free market will solve this. A carrier will test the waters to see if people will pay more for more leg room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Surprised at all the negative responses to this. I fly somewhat frequently, am a good size person, see people recline on EVERY flight including in front of me, and never heard a complaint or witnessed anyone annoyed. Maybe I am more happy go lucky than most, or maybe it's a result of our supersize generation. I do see on a quick web search that it is quite the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The free market will solve this. A carrier will test the waters to see if people will pay more for more leg room. That used to be a big marketing message for JetBlue, that they had more legroom. But I don't really know if that is the case anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Actually I think it is our responsibility as consumers to make this an issue so the airlines will fix it. It is 100% due to their greed and the only thing that is going to make them change it is if the issue comes front and center. LIke it is. I'm not going to be one that gets in a fight on an airplane (being 5'6" is helpful there) but I thank those who have because now we're talking about it. Unfortunately getting into it with the airline employees, who are paid to represent the company and should be the ones who hear it, gets you in a whole lot more trouble. It' not the way it would be resolved in a perfect world, and I speak about approving of the trouble makers with my tongue firmly in my cheek, but it will work in the end I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 YES! It's very rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 You know what's freaking rude ... people that cut in front of the a line of cars waiting to get on a exit or make turn. How many of you do that!? As for the seats thing, I think its rude if you don't ask before you recline ... that's brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 You know what's freaking rude ... people that cut in front of the a line of cars waiting to get on a exit or make turn. How many of you do that!? This is why I like to get a rental car with out-of-state plates when I travel. Some people don't explore the possibility that the person cutting in might just be unfamiliar with the intersection/exit and isn't a jerk. It's typically obvious who the jerks are. They're the ones who wait till the very last moment they can to cut you off (sometimes even taking the exit on the shoulder), whereas the lost people try to get in the correct lane when they realize where they should be, but inadvertently cut people off in the process. Still I've gotten some nasty looks/gestures in my travels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I like to wait until the person behind me goes to sleep. Then I disable the spring that limits how far I can recline. Once all the way back I proceed to roll over onto my belly and stare at them in slumber. It's way less awkward then it sounds and I have made many a friend when they arouse to see my smiling face gazing upon them. Truly an awakening usually reserved for royalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Don't be ridiculous. It not rude in anyway and doesn't intefere with the person sitting behind you. They're designed to lean back a certain amount of distance with no effect on that person. No as in anything there are people that will take offense because of a perception in their little minds that it does invade their space. Screw them, I'm sick of people with manufactured outrage and offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 No, but I suppose UnWise Mike is gonna say if one person is upset by it, I have to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'm just the opposite. I think the world would be a much better place if people were concerned for people other than themselves. Usually it's the little things people can do that makes things better for everyone. That's not the opposite of my position. Part of showing concern for others is not imposing your idea of ideal on them. Not assuming that your delicate needs are reasonable and that everyone else is rude. The two most annoying people to deal with in enclosed spaces are the careless pig and the over sensitive diva. Neither of them ever seems to think their behavior is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The two most annoying people to deal with in enclosed spaces are the careless pig and the over sensitive diva. Neither of them ever seems to think their behavior is bad. From my travel experiences the careless pig and the over-sensitive diva are actually the same person. They obsess over all of the ways they've been slighted by the airline-- i.e. not saving an overhead space for them even though they got to the gate 30 seconds before the door was about to close, or getting upset that they got a non-reclining middle seat as a platinum loyalty member, even though they booked their plane ticket that morning and it was literally the only seat left on the plane. Then they get on the plane and decide to take it out on the passengers around them. (Almost all of the examples I've shared in this thread are things I've witnessed in the past year and a half). My only issue is that its incredibly rare that someone actually has enough of an issue that they ask unrecline. If they politely do so, I wouldn't rush to judge that person as an over-sensitive diva and would probably try to figure out the issue. If they are a rude jerk about it, they are probably a diva. EDIT: Actually, that's a general piece of life advice I've learned in my short 33 years. The more someone talks about how much they've been screwed over, the more likely they are to screw you over. They've already justified to themselves that its ok for them to screw someone else over because they've decided they've been on the wrong end of it so many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 From my travel experiences the careless pig and the over-sensitive diva are actually the same person. They obsess over all of the ways they've been slighted by the airline-- i.e. not saving an overhead space for them even though they got to the gate 30 seconds before the door was about to close, or getting upset that they got a non-reclining middle seat as a platinum loyalty member, even though they booked their plane ticket that morning and it was literally the only seat left on the plane. Then they get on the plane and decide to take it out on the passengers around them. (Almost all of the examples I've shared in this thread are things I've witnessed in the past year and a half). My only issue is that its incredibly rare that someone actually has enough of an issue that they ask unrecline. If they politely do so, I wouldn't rush to judge that person as an over-sensitive diva and would probably try to figure out the issue. If they are a rude jerk about it, they are probably a diva. EDIT: Actually, that's a general piece of life advice I've learned in my short 33 years. The more someone talks about how much they've been screwed over, the more likely they are to screw you over. They've already justified to themselves that its ok for them to screw someone else over because they've decided they've been on the wrong end of it so many times. I think some people are just not into common courtesy. Some people can't hold a door open for someone, can't wait for the people to get off the elevator before they get on, can't give up their seat on the metro for a lady with young kids... Most people are cool, a small percentage don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins0721 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Like other posters, I have flown over 100+ segments each year for the last 23 years. Yeah, a lot of freaking flights. First off, I agree with many others: this is the airlines fault. Fix the seats so they don't recline so far or provide more leg room. Second, there's no freaking leg room. Don't jam your seat back as far as you can as soon as the wheels leave the runway. And you're ****ing 5'6" why do need all this room? I can't tell you how many times I've had a seat back jammed into my knees. I'm 6'2" so to be able to actually put my head on the back of the seat I need to slide forward, with my knees almost up against the seat in front of me. And first class, on most domestic carriers, is worse. When somebody reclines all the way back, I can't even use my tray table. Try to reach something under the seat in front of me? Not happening. I'v had to ask the FA's to tell people to lift their seat backs so I can have more room or so I can actually use my tray table. It seems to get worse and worse with every flight. Not to get too far off topic: Last week Tampa to Charlotte, some genius thinks it's a good idea to carry on an 8' fishing rod which he thinks he can hold while in flight. He has a middle seat and gets pissed when I tell him I don't want to move from my aisle seat. Oh, and he's actually in the wrong row & seat. Moves to the correct seat & now gets pissed at the FA because he has to put his stupid ****ing fishing rod in the overhead. WTF? Someone should start a thread: Rude ****ers I Saw While Flying Today. It would be pretty entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I don't care if it is, besides it's the only way to drape my legs over the seat in frt of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 There is simple no question that leaning your seat back if that's even possible is incredible rude... Hell I think it's rude if you are under 6' to even think about sitting in the exit row... The only exception is if you seat in business or first class. In first class I can usually recline my seat all the way flat and streach my arms and legs out and not touch anything... Believe me I've done it before.. In coach it's physically impossible for the guy who sits in front of me to recline their seat. My knees are firmly planted into the back of their seat when I'm in my natural seating position. If they try to recline they immediately impact my knees and start to cut into my flesh / bone... I've had hour long flights where the guy in front of me tries to recline his seat the entire trip... He goes nowhere..although by the end of the trip my knees are pretty raw. The only alternative is for me to splay my legs out into the aisle or put them side ways into the seat legroom next to me.. The recline seat on your airline seat are really not functional anymore. Over the years they have gradually reduced the extra legroom such that currently none exists... not for regularly sized people, but especially not for tall people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'm 6'2" and about 260. I've never had an issue with anyone reclining. I heard on the Junkies the other morning someone that was 5'8" that would put the tray table down and start playing the drums until they put the seat up--instead of asking nicely. And someone who is 5'8" complaining about space? I thought to myself "who is the asshole there?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggosMohawk Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Having an overweight person next to you who overflows into your space is a much bigger issue than reclining seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'm 6'2" so to be able to actually put my head on the back of the seat I need to slide forward, with my knees almost up against the seat in front of me. And first class, on most domestic carriers, is worse. I'm 6'6" and when I sit in airline seats I'm jammed in their. I've had guys fight to put their seats back and when they can't they start bouncing backwards, Like my knees are a pillow that will compact if they just push hard enough.. I'm like, dude are you kidding me? I've had folks threaten to swing on me before because I was blocking their recline... seriously.. As a multi-year 100k traveler, I typically get upgraded out of coach when I fly. for the last probable 15 years, I don't think anybody sitting in front of me in coach has ever successfully been able to recline their seat even 1 degree. Having an overweight person next to you who overflows into your space is a much bigger issue than reclining seats. No it's really not. Even twiggie sitting next to her mirror image would cross over into the other person's area... That's because peoples space overlap... You got one arm rest you share with the dude sitting next to you and I've yet to figure out how to share a single 2 inch arm rest. Typically one person get's the arm rest and the other person get's to clutch their elbow for the entire trip so as not to rest his arm on top of the other guy... Either that or you play the game of dueling elbows... anytime one person gives up the arm rest you seize it and keep your arm immobile for as long as possible before you absent mindedly move it only to have your opponent seize it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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