Why do Americans love guns so much?

[balki1867]

I have lots of guns.  I love them, but I'm not obsessed with them...if that's possible.  I'm a tree-hugging liberal, but I am also very concerned about the gubment trying to poop on my gun rights.  Unless the municipal govt will assign a cop or sheriff's deputy to follow me around for safety, I will continue to carry a loaded firearm tucked under my shirt everywhere I go.

 

I served in the military, not sure if that has influenced me or not. 

 

I lived in Michigan for a few years and you'd fit in well there.  Most of my coworkers were pretty liberal but they were also very proud gun owners who typically owned something for deer season and something with which to protect themselves at home (I'm not at all a gun aficionado so that's as descriptive I can get).  Most of these people have had guns in their homes for their entire lives, so it really wasn't a big deal.

 

To be honest, the 2nd amendment is not a hot button issue for me though.  In my opinion, the ability to defend your home with a firearm is grossly overrated as most gun owners really don't spend the time needed to be effectively trained at using a gun in a confrontational situation (whenever you read an email forward about civilians protecting themselves with a firearm, >50% of the time, they are off-duty police officers, veterans or national guard servicemen).  At the same time, if people feel safer in their homes with a firearm I don't have a problem with it for 90% of the population.

 

There is one group of people who TERRIFY me, however.  These are the people who've never carried in their lives and suddenly got interested in it because Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity told them Obama's trying to take their guns.  I know a few of these types, and there's just a certain sadisticness I sense when I hear them talking about their firearms, and honestly I get the sense they see their firearm as a way to prove some sort of political point, rather than a tool that is specifically designed to almost-instantly take a life.

[Elessar78]

 

 

To be honest, the 2nd amendment is not a hot button issue for me though.  In my opinion, the ability to defend your home with a firearm is grossly overrated as most gun owners really don't spend the time needed to be effectively trained at using a gun in a confrontational situation (whenever you read an email forward about civilians protecting themselves with a firearm, >50% of the time, they are off-duty police officers, veterans or national guard servicemen).  At the same time, if people feel safer in their homes with a firearm I don't have a problem with it for 90% of the population.

 

 

I work with a guy, ex-military and his hobby is training people how to use a firearm for home defense properly. He says the number of people who actually get training (excluding people who get it by default, miltary or law enforcement) vs who actually claim to have guns for home protection is miniscule. 

 

Shooting at paper targets on a range is not the same as confronting a live intruder in a pressure situation in low light. Very few, he says, considers the geometry of their home. Very few consider their choice of weapon and ammunition in relation to whether or not their home has drywall and what could potentially be on the other side of that drywall. 

[Corcaigh]

5000 people a year are being murdered with guns

 

Yeah ... but the vast majority are either gang members, the urban poor bystanders, or the mentally ill.

 

None of these have organized into powerful, well-funded lobbying groups so they can't be either surprised or disappointed when the political system ignores them.

[Roger.Staubach]

Because of the ever-increasing stupidity and thug-like mentality in my community by young and braisen youth.  Add to it the fact that our criminal reform and judicial systems are a complete joke and you'll see why I got my concealed weapons permit.

 

The following website profiles the cesspool that is now Charleston, SC:

 

http://charlestonthuglife.net/

[mistertim]

I work with a guy, ex-military and his hobby is training people how to use a firearm for home defense properly. He says the number of people who actually get training (excluding people who get it by default, miltary or law enforcement) vs who actually claim to have guns for home protection is miniscule. 

 

Shooting at paper targets on a range is not the same as confronting a live intruder in a pressure situation in low light. Very few, he says, considers the geometry of their home. Very few consider their choice of weapon and ammunition in relation to whether or not their home has drywall and what could potentially be on the other side of that drywall. 

I think this is an excellent point and I've debated it with a friend of mine who is an avid gun owner. There seems to be this assumption in the talking points gun advocates use that every situation will end in the ideal fashion. Person on a shooting rampage? If someone else there has a gun, they will take care of it and save the day. Person broke into someone else's house? The owner has a gun so they can easily defend themselves or their family, etc by taking out the bad guy.

 

Reality is quite a bit more complex, especially when you're talking about people who are not trained on how to deal with a firefight or CQB situation under extreme pressure and fear for your life. My friend brought up the movie theater shooting as an example, saying that if some citizen had been there with a gun it would have been stopped quickly. So, dark theater, shooting starts, chaos, people running all over the place, smoke bomb had gone off, adrenaline going crazy, fight or flight response in full effect...and you expect some untrained person to just calmly and cleanly take this guy out? BEST case scenario if the person starts firing is they won't hit any innocents who are trying to escape. Most likely scenario is they will.

 

Same sort of thing as you pointed out in your post with a person breaking in. Its dark, adrenaline going crazy, untrained person, not taking into account the geometry of the house, etc. 

[Dan T.]

^^ Roger.Staubach, chairman of the Charleston Board of Tourism ...

[twa]

Yeah ... but the vast majority are either gang members, the urban poor bystanders, or the mentally ill.

 

None of these have organized into powerful, well-funded lobbying groups so they can't be either surprised or disappointed when the political system ignores them.

 

 

yeah, when it is hot white chicks going down it will become a priority....especially if they are rich

 

of course ya could cull a few w/o much fuss 

[twa]

 

While there is some validity in that statement, "guns don't kill, people do" is a tired argument. I would suggest that a tool which a person can use to instantly kill someone with the twitch of a finger might be part of the problem as well.

 

I don't blame the wrench for a ****ty mechanic or keys for someone keying a car.

 

Trying to restrict what people will go to lengths to get is a losing game

[mcsluggo]

I don't blame the wrench for a ****ty mechanic or keys for someone keying a car.

 

Trying to restrict what people will go to lengths to get is a losing game

 

so.. in that case you are for the legalization of heroin and child pornography as well, right?   

 

(to be clear... people go to great lengths to get those things, as well)

 

and i guess we can throw in nukes for Iran and N.Korea......

[Bang]

I think i saw North Korea prowling around my neighborhood the other night.

 

i NEED a nuke.

 

~Bang

[RansomthePasserby]

I think i saw North Korea prowling around my neighborhood the other night.

i NEED a nuke.

~Bang

You're a taxpayer. You have thousands or whatever.

[Bang]

You're a taxpayer. You have thousands or whatever.

 

No man, i need one in my house! i swear, if i could pack one on my hip i would.

Iran runs my favorite liquor store, AND every gas station around..  and in case you haven't noticed, Russia just invaded Ukraine, and i can practically SEE that place from my house!

Sort of. 

I can find it on google earth. 

And dammit if i can find it on google earth, then they damn sure can find me.

 

I'm a responsible nuke owner. i deserve to protect my family.

 

~Boom

[mcsluggo]

Lets just cut to the chase here....

I am really tired of laws that limit the murdering of people. Because, lets face it... the bad people are going to just keep on murdering anyway, whether it is legal or not. Right?

We just need to end this silly notion that some "rule" or "regulation" will stop bad people from doing what they do best, being bad. We just need to better empower the good guys, so that they are on a level field with the bad guys. If we just make it legal to murder people then that will free the hands of the good guys, and some of the people that SHOULD get murdered, WILL get murdered.

who is with me?

[twa]

so.. in that case you are for the legalization of heroin and child pornography as well, right?   

 

(to be clear... people go to great lengths to get those things, as well)

 

and i guess we can throw in nukes for Iran and N.Korea......

 

heroin is fine subject to limiting the safety net (probably a improvement over the crap out there now), child porn harms the child which is not cool

 

how is your ban working out on NK and Iran?

 

I'm not adverse to trying to convince them they are not in their best interests, which goes back to it is the people ya need to address

 

add

 

if you do not see the difference between murder and possessing this will go about as well as usual.

[Corcaigh]

child porn harms the child which is not cool

 

And children having access to guns in the home is often bad for the kids too.

if you do not see the difference between murder and possessing

How about the difference between manslaughter and (untrained) possession?

[zoony]

And children having access to guns in the home is often bad for the kids too.How about the difference between manslaughter and (untrained) possession?

Lets keep this. incredibly stupid line of thinking in this thread going.

"So I guess you're in favor of outlawing swimming pools, bleach, and Advil correct?"

/****ing idiot

Child porn is the same as guns. Just ****ing brilliant.

[twa]

 

And children having access to guns in the home is often bad for the kids too.

How about the difference between manslaughter and (untrained) possession?

 

children having access is illegal....they are minors and we restrict their rights at will.

 

why don't we ask the highly trained cop that shot the guy over texting?

[Destino]

More facile thinking. We don't keep the guns for safety from an in home invasion or Obama rolling tanks down Main Street (which we literally have).

So we have endure the dangerous presence of your firearms in the community because you think guns are great fun? Not for home defense but for entertainment?! Unthinkable. Do us all a favor and buy a frisbee.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

That's an easy question to answer.  Sit there and hate on guns, etc.  but when the Zombie apocalypse occurs, **** off and get eaten while us gun owners take care of business.  We will sit back and laugh at you throwing rocks at them before being food.  MUHAHAHAHAHAHA! 

 

 

Seriously, we live in the greatest country in the world and we are allowed to own and possess firearms.  The government could confiscate all firearms and limit it to military only and people would still commit crimes and kill other people.  Crazy is crazy, regardless.  And the crazy people would just resort to an even more brutal way of violence (i.e. bats, knives, etc.).  

 

Sure you will have horrific tragedies that will occur (kids gaining access and hurting themselves or others, scared person feeling violated and shooting another person, etc.), but tragedies occur in all shapes and forms.  Like I said, bad/crazy people will continue to be bad and crazy regardless.  

[mistertim]

Trying to remember the last case of mass baseball bat or knife murder.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Trying to remember the last case of mass baseball bat or knife murder.

We have our witty pants on today, how cute.  Didn't some guy go into a school and stab like 20 people?

 

 

Here is a link to the article from the Pittburgh CBS website:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/multiple-students-reported-stabbed-at-franklin-regional-high-school/

 

 

Edit: I just added a link to the article.  Actually it was 24 stabbed.  Sure, might not have killed everyone, but what's to say that he couldn't have or that it cannot/won't happen in the future.  Like I said, crazy is crazy man.  Nut jobs that want to inflict harm will find a way to do so regardless.  

[MartinC]

We have our witty pants on today, how cute.  Didn't some guy go into a school and stab like 20 people?

 

 

Here is a link to the article from the Pittburgh CBS website:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/multiple-students-reported-stabbed-at-franklin-regional-high-school/

 

 

Edit: I just added a link to the article.  Actually it was 24 stabbed.  Sure, might not have killed everyone, but what's to say that he couldn't have or that it cannot/won't happen in the future.

That's true. But none of the victims was killed. Now if that same guy had been carrying and using a gun .....

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

That's true. But none of the victims was killed. Now if that same guy had been carrying and using a gun .....

Right, but it's not saying that it couldn't happen.  Sure, the chance of death would be a lot greater if the kid came in spraying bullets.  My main point is, crazy will be crazy.  

 

You take away all guns, its only a mater of time before violent crimes involving knives, bats, etc. increase significantly. That's just how statistics work.  You take away one thing, something will take its place eventually.  Sure violent crimes involving guns would be minimal, but who's to say that domestic violence/home invasions wouldn't increase incredibly?  

 

I mean, if they are a thug/criminal, they still are a thug/criminal.  Knowing that people don't have guns on their person or in their home, I'd think that would make it more enticing for them to attempt to violate people and their property by force.  

 

You also have to think that a lot of people are not violent (in nature) and not fighters or physically able to fight to protect themselves or family, owning a gun levels the playing field as far as protection goes.  While this might not apply to you or me or plenty of other Americans that can stand and fight to protect themselves and family without the need of a gun, it still applies to others.  

 

Edit:  The most important thing to remember is I am 100% for the regulation of firearms, safety and use.  As long as they are obtained legally and all laws/regulations are followed 100%, I see no problem with owning firearms for whatever reason you want to own them (i.e. hunting, protection, collector, etc.).  I'd also like to add that any gun owner should own a gun safe and keep them locked up as this prevents children and adults that don't properly know how to use them from hurting/killing themselves or others and it prevents legally obtained firearms from being stolen and used in violent crimes.

[Chew]

.  Crazy is crazy, regardless.   

 

Exactly.  Didn't some dickhead in Japan or China go on a mass stabbing spree and poke like 13 people last year?

 

and just to make sure folks, as I've said before, I am against the massive 100 round drums being legal for public use.  I am completely for the restructuring of the gun permit process, to make it a lot more detailed and include psych evals.

 

I know its cliche and played out, but the fact remains:  guns don't kill people, hurt people hurt people.  Let's get these low self-esteem cornball brothers like the Aurora CO theater kid help instead of giving him an assault rifle with 400 rounds.

 

Daddy didn't hug you enough, the kid as school takes your lunch money, you were born with six toes on your left foot.  Whatever it is that makes people so angry....like..... angry....to the point of wanting to kill large amounts of people, we have to figure something out to keep them away from guns.  But don't **** on my 2nd amendment rights because little Timmy in Iowa got cut from the baseball team, doesn't know how to deal with or accept failure, and decides to shoot up the opening day game.

[CRobi21]

Crazy is crazy, indeed.

But why give the crazy a tool to maximize their craziness?