Why do Americans love guns so much?

[Chew]

Crazy is crazy, indeed.

But why give the crazy a tool to maximize their craziness?

 

Trust me when I say we're on the same team here.  I mean that.  But what's to stop some d-bag from picking up a knife, nail gun, or bow and arrow?  Obviously a gun can produce a lot more damage, yes i'm kinda answering my own question LOL.

 

But for every dumbass that intends to do harm to the masses with a firearm, there are probably 100 responsible gun owners who have never had an issue.  I'm one of them. 

[MartinC]

You take away all guns, its only a mater of time before violent crimes involving knives, bats, etc. increase significantly. That's just how statistics work.  You take away one thing, something will take its place eventually.  Sure violent crimes involving guns would be minimal, but who's to say that domestic violence/home invasions wouldn't increase incredibly?.

It's almost impossible to legally own a firearm in the UK. There are guns in circulation of course but these are mainly owned by criminals who use almost exclusively to shoot other criminals - murder by firearm of people not involved in gang or criminal activity in the UK is incredibly rare. As is armed robbery especially of domestic property. We have a slightly higher rate of what you call home invasion but not much higher and actually within a range were it's statistically not significant. In fact burglary rates have fallen by about 50% since 1995 (strict gun control laws were introduced from 1996).

We also still have lower murder rates by means other than firearm - so people are not going around stabbing people instead of shooting them. We do though have higher rates of physical assault.

[mcsluggo]

Lets keep this. incredibly stupid line of thinking in this thread going.

"So I guess you're in favor of outlawing swimming pools, bleach, and Advil correct?"

/****ing idiot

Child porn is the same as guns. Just ****ing brilliant.

 

if you can't tell the difference between saying that:

 

"Society should restrict child porn in spite of the fact that that some people will continue to try to (and succeed) in getting it...much like guns"

 

and

 

"guns are are just like child porn"

 

then i don't know what to say......  But i wouldn't call it brilliant

[Masked Marauder]

There are all kinds of checks on our other freedoms. One cannot just yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater and claim protection from the Freedom of Speech, for example. But 2nd Amendment "defenders" want no kind of check on any citizen's ability to obtain a firearm.  

That is a pretty broad generalization.  I know many folks who are "gun nuts" and most all are okay with checks that are currently in place.  And would be "okay" with reasonable checks that actually contribute to minimizing the potential for Newtowns, and Auroras, etc.  Removing bayonet lugs and flash suppresors does not accomplish this.....at all.  Virginia is generally regarded as a permissive state and even purchase here is not a "free for all" 

[Mr. Sinister]

I really have no idea where exactly I stand on this issue sometimes. Generally I try to see all sides in an argument. I will concede that mental illness is the driving force behind this, and that just because you have a gun doesn't mean you want to kill every living thing inf ront of you.

 

I will also say that I know many people who own guns, and though I could vouch for each and every one of their character, I will say that their attitude towards potential home invasion is less than comforting. When they talk you get the feeling that they want confrontation.... That they invite it almost. They want to experience that adrenaline rush of facing life or death. I don't think many people will freely admit that, but I feel that there are many that probably share that same thought process.

 

Frankly, I don't think certain people understand the high level of responsibility that comes with handling a firearm. I don't think they look at it as a last resort. I think they look at it as a first option. I don't think people like that should be allowed the right to own one.

 

It then leads me to people (all people really) who have their ****ty moments. We've all had them (well, most have), where we get so pissed that a certain chunk of your brain shuts off. At that point, I don't think the fact that you are a law abiding citizen matters a whole lot. When many people may use their fists, or a knife, or something else that takes planning or an even higher level of craziness, I think the sheer availability of guns here is what is a huge part of the problem in my eyes, and why the number of gun deaths here are so absurd compared to other developed countries. I think thats it, coupled with the absurd state of mental health in this country, and everyday stress brought on by the economy/job market.

 

And I sure as hell don't think "More good people with guns" is the answer. I 'd love for someone to explain to me how a person without extensive ( and I mean ****ing extensive) combat training would be able to accurately take down a moving target as well in a highly charged emotional environment, where people may be running in all directions, without hitting anyone else. Its that type of superhero complex that will only get more people killed.

[Predicto]

Because of the ever-increasing stupidity and thug-like mentality in my community by young and braisen youth.  Add to it the fact that our criminal reform and judicial systems are a complete joke and you'll see why I got my concealed weapons permit.

 

The following website profiles the cesspool that is now Charleston, SC:

 

http://charlestonthuglife.net/

 

 

Let me guess.  You think the knockout game is a real thing too, don't you?

[Bang]

That is a pretty broad generalization.  I know many folks who are "gun nuts" and most all are okay with checks that are currently in place.  And would be "okay" with reasonable checks that actually contribute to minimizing the potential for Newtowns, and Auroras, etc.  Removing bayonet lugs and flash suppresors does not accomplish this.....at all.  Virginia is generally regarded as a permissive state and even purchase here is not a "free for all" 

the thing is, likely the current checks would have been able to maybe keep guns away from some of these people who clearly have no business getting their hands on one. 

the guy in Aurora displayed textbook red flags, loaded up on weapons, ammo drums, body armor, and quit his job in a relatively short period of time.

This should be seen and flagged as the multiple sales add up.

The kid in Newtown.. if the background check had been able to ascertain that his mother lived with a person with mental problems, he may not have had the weapon to go on his rampage.

the guy at Va tech.. hell, a judge was even given the notification of his behavior prior to his purchasing the gun as i recall.

The Navy yard shooter, again, red flags are there.. we don't see them, or we ignore them.

 

the system is overwhelmed like every gov't system, and it is also hamstrung by laws that the NRA have pushed through that really limits the abilities of law enforcement to trace weapons, etc. Law enforcement knows where their problems come from but they're often powerless to stop it. 

 

~Bang

[Corcaigh]

children having access is illegal....they are minors and we restrict their rights at will.

That's not my point. The current position in this country, thanks to the NRA, is that it is an unacceptable infringement of the adults' rights to have any sort of due diligence, or training before they bring guns into a home with children.

[Corcaigh]

Lets keep this. incredibly stupid line of thinking in this thread going.

"So I guess you're in favor of outlawing swimming pools, bleach, and Advil correct?"

No, but bottles of bleach and Advil do come in child-proof containers. 

 

 

[Predicto]

No, but bottles of bleach and Advil do come in child-proof containers. 

 

[KuNiT21]

That's not my point. The current position in this country, thanks to the NRA, is that it is an unacceptable infringement of the adults' rights to have any sort of due diligence, or training before they bring guns into a home with children.

 

And that position is rightfully correct.  Maybe they should have lessons to teach "how to not be the dumbest parent alive?"  I'm very sympathetic for the kids, it's terrible really.  But it's amazing the blame goes immediately on guns with EVERYTHING.  Nobody ever looks into the deeper problems let's just door to door and start sweeping up everyone's guns.  Not all NRA members just hate safety of guns.  Most of us are 100% of safety but that's common knowledge when handling a firearm or protecting them against kids.

[Corcaigh]

 let's just door to door and start sweeping up everyone's guns.  

 

Yeah, because that's what everyone who wants to balance individual rights and risks to society wants to do. It's all or nothing.

 

There are plenty of reasonable actions that could be taken, but the NRA, and others, have worked hard to prevent those being adopted.

[Predicto]

And that position is rightfully correct.  Maybe they should have lessons to teach "how to not be the dumbest parent alive?"  I'm very sympathetic for the kids, it's terrible really.  But it's amazing the blame goes immediately on guns with EVERYTHING.  Nobody ever looks into the deeper problems let's just door to door and start sweeping up everyone's guns.  Not all NRA members just hate safety of guns.  Most of us are 100% of safety but that's common knowledge when handling a firearm or protecting them against kids.

 

So because some people "unfairly blame everything on guns,"  you jump to the conclusion that "guns should not be regulated at all"?

 

And any regulation of guns is automatically going to be "just door to door and sweeping up everyone's guns"?

 

I honestly don't get this kind of thinking.   It makes me want to scream...

 

scream "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

[KuNiT21]

Yeah, because that's what everyone who wants to balance individual rights and risks to society wants to do.

 

There are plenty of reasonable actions that could be taken, but the NRA, and others, have worked hard to prevent those being adopted.

 

Oh yeah like what, something perhaps reasonable like suggesting uniformed officers be in schools during school hours?  How many kids need to be mowed down until they start taking it seriously?  Gets shut down everytime.......multi BILLIONS flooded into education systems and nobody does this?  Our highschool does near us.....uniformed officer everyday.  No problems here.

[twa]

That's not my point. The current position in this country, thanks to the NRA, is that it is an unacceptable infringement of the adults' rights to have any sort of due diligence, or training before they bring guns into a home with children.

 

that doesn't seem to be their position from my seat, of course not being a member  I might of missed out on the scoop

[Corcaigh]

Oh yeah like what, something perhaps reasonable like suggesting uniformed officers be in schools during school hours?  How many kids need to be mowed down until they start taking it seriously?  Gets shut down everytime.......multi BILLIONS flooded into education systems and nobody does this?  Our highschool does near us.....uniformed officer everyday.  No problems here.

 

Reasonable ... that is stupid security policy. We would spend north on $10 billion (100,000 public schools and >$100,000 per sworn officer total cost) so that we would accomplish what exactly?

 

• ... result in shoot outs in the schools (with prepared heavily armed assailants) or
• ... if you think the officer would prevent such incidents, shift the massacres to any public place ... local malls, churches, playgrounds, places of work?
• ... If you put 100,000 new guns in schools you are significantly increasing the risk of one or more of these officers doing harm, either accidentally or maliciously.

 

And eliminating school shootings is a drop in the bucket compared to domestic disputes which escalate into murder, accidental deaths, and suicides which are greatly enabled.

 

Anyhoo ... arguing about gun policy is not how I'll be spending the rest of my Friday evening. I have **** to do. 

[KuNiT21]

Reasonable ... that is stupid security policy. We would spend north on $10 billion (100,000 public schools and >$100,000 per sworn officer total cost) so that we would accomplish what exactly?

 

• ... result in shoot outs in the schools (with prepared heavily armed assailants) or
• ... if you think the officer would prevent such incidents, shift the massacres to any public place ... local malls, churches, playgrounds, places of work?
• ... If you put 100,000 new guns in schools you are significantly increasing the risk of one or more of these officers doing harm, either accidentally or maliciously.

 

And eliminating school shootings is a drop in the bucket compared to domestic disputes which escalate into murder, accidental deaths, and suicides which are greatly enabled.

 

Anyhoo ... arguing about gun policy is not how I'll be spending the rest of my Friday evening. I have **** to do. 

 

Wow just the same old song and dance response.  10 billion to keep our children safe?  Yeah I'll take it when you line up the amount of cash spent on education every year, I'm sure the taxpayers won't have an issue when you raise each school tax $5 dollars and insert pamphlet explaining we are putting a uniformed officer in every school.

 

Then we go from "Cops are here to protect us" and "That's why we have cops" regarding a conceal to carry in places and owning guns.  Then we switch to "OMG cops in schools are ludicrous security policy"?  Which is it from the anti gun crowd?  Back and forth, back and forth.  Nobody said anything about churches, malls, ect.  Honestly, you never see police in malls?  Our town is by no means rich AT ALL, our mall is ridiculously tiny, and at least 2 state police are always in the mall from noon to close.  I can't honestly tell you how many times I've been in malls and have seen cops walking all over. 

 

Increasing cops has the ability to harm more people accidentally or maliciously?  Are you serious?  Someone may argue that a cop may not be able to stop Adam Lanza with an AR15.....very true...very.  But he is going to go down trying and you know what he probably will not succeed but at least he tried.  Cops deter criminals believe it or not, not like "Gun free zones".  How many woman have protect themselves against rape, domestic dispute, ect?

 

But you get going, I don't want to keep you from enjoying your night.  Just nice healthy debate from both sides.

[Burgold]

Toy guns are more heavily regulated on the US than real guns. Think about that.

[Burgold]

Toy guns are more heavily regulated on the US than real guns. Think about that.

[chipwhich]

Toy guns are more heavily regulated on the US than real guns. Think about that.

 

That's why I took the easier route and filled out all the paperwork I had to fill out to buy my handguns, wouldn't want immediate gratification and deal with those monsters in the Toys-R-Us store.

[KuNiT21]

Toy guns are more heavily regulated on the US than real guns. Think about that.

 

That's because they have to be.....there so big, bad and scary wary.  I remember when I was a kid and it wasn't a crime to buy a toy gun at the toy store and play war with the neighbors.  I remember when we brought our super soakers to school for the last day bus water fight without being labeled a domestic terrorist.

[DCSaints_fan]

Guns per capita is not a good measure.   If one person out of ten owns five guns, then the guns per capita is one gun per two people.  But the percentage of people owning guns is only 10%.

 

A better measure is percentage of households owning guns.  And that is only about 35% http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html   the number has also been declining since the 1970s

[Kosher Ham]

No, but bottles of bleach and Advil do come in child-proof containers. 

 

There is no such thing as "child proof".

Biometric safe would be a good start though.

[Burgold]

That's because they have to be.....there so big, bad and scary wary.  I remember when I was a kid and it wasn't a crime to buy a toy gun at the toy store and play war with the neighbors.  I remember when we brought our super soakers to school for the last day bus water fight without being labeled a domestic terrorist.

Mock if you will, but on the manufacturer side... toy guns makers face far more controls than hand gun and other real gun makers.

[chipwhich]

Mock if you will, but on the manufacturer side... toy guns makers face far more controls than hand gun and other real gun makers.

 

That's simply not true.