ESPN: Kirk Cousins Open to Being Traded

[mistertim]

Folks, one thing we all learn from the draft is: where a player gets picked in the draft does not determine what kind of level of NFL player he'll become.

 

While this is certainly true, it is also true that where a player was picked in the draft + his performance when given a chance do make a difference in how other teams value him. Fact of the matter is that Cousins was bypassed multiple times by all NFL teams during the draft. In order to overcome that deficit he would need to perform very well in order to up his trade value to a 1st or 2nd, and he hasn't really done that. He has overall not been that impressive when he has played and his numbers aren't very good...any time you have two times more INTs than TDs its going to be a red flag for a potential trade partner...as it should.

 

Guys with limited experience who got big chances like Flynn and Cassel had either a very good year (Cassel) or some impressive individual performances (Flynn).And both of them ended up being mediocre at best when they were picked up by other teams. Had one of the "one hit wonder" guys gone to other teams and torn it up, there would likely be more teams willing to take a big chance on a guy like Cousins, but given the real world results, I think its unlikely that, with his performance, Cousins would get anything more than a 3rd rounder. 

[skinsforlife101]

People are overvaluing KC the most the skins could possibly get for him is a third

[redskins55]

If we were solid at all starting positions, or at least 90% of our starting positions, I'd agree with you. But, right now, if we can trade a bench player for a potential starter, that's a risk worth taking

.

This is the point! This is why there were so many people baffled that we'd take two QBs in one draft with a team that had more holes than Swiss cheese! In 2012 .. The only team that had that luxury was Seattle. They were set across the board except for the QB position. They drafted a QB and got one in FA. Did they keep Flynn on the roster?? No!! Because there is no need for a high priced back up QB when they can use that money to pay a starter. Backup QBs in this league usually have no trade value. But the ones that did got moved. LoL it's pretty simple

[JamesMadisonSkins]

As someone pointed out, the equivalent of 34 to 26 is 140 points, or roughly a mid-to-late 3rd rounder (pick 90 to be exact) ... so pick 25 in the 3rd round.

 

We could do much better than that, I think.

 

And for people saying "we are overvaluing him" ... who's to say you're UNDERvaluing him? If Clayton says he's perceived to be a 2nd round value, today, that remains consistent with what people were saying before the 3 starts in 2013. So his stock didn't take a huge hit. If experts and GMs are saying he is a 2nd round value, how are you suddenly an expert? We are just saying what we are hearing.

 

I just read an article saying Sam Bradford is a top candidate to be a cap casualty this year. Maybe they restructure (likely) so his cap hit is more in line with his production. But maybe the Rams decide to draft QB at 2. You likely have 1-2-3 all going QB ... Cleveland would basically be handed either Jake Matthews or Jadaveon Clowney at 4. I wouldn't be shocked if Cleveland, with their plethora of picks (1,1,2,3,3) in the first 3 rounds were willing to either trade down from 4 and get more picks, or use 4 on a defender and trade us their 2nd for Cousins. They could draft Sammy Watkins at 4 and a defender at 26 and get their QB with their 2nd (Cousins).

 

Or a team like Minnesota, who right now won't be sniffing a Top 3 QB with the 8th pick, would rather go BPA at 8 and trade us #40 for Cousins. THey could reach for Derek Carr at 8 but he's graded as a 2nd rounder ... he likely won't make the 2nd round when they pick again, so why reach so far at #8 ... when you can go BPA and roll with Cousins with your 2nd rounder? Anyone picked at 8 (especially Carr) would need time to be groomed. AP doesn't have too many years left, and this has been debated quite a bit. Would you rather draft Carr at 8 and wait a year or two for him to come up to speed, or trade #40 for Cousins, someone who has faced NFL defenses and had a chance to be in an NFL system for 2 years? 

 

Then there's Oakland at #5. They also likely don't have a shot at a Top 3 QB (I'm talking Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel). They've proven they're willing to move picks for QBs ... what's to say they don't think Cousins is worth their #36 in the 2nd round?

 

This is NOT a QB heavy draft. There might be 3 legit QB options then a couple 1st/2nd round guys that will need to be groomed. If we are asking for a 2nd, Cousins really isn't that heavy a cost for teams that are DESPERATE for a QB.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I think we all forget how desperate teams are to find  a legit NFL QB. Just look at the history of picks that have been traded? Hell, we are even victims ourselves ... we've witnessed a number of mid-to-late 1st round picks that just haven't panned (Campbell, Ramsey) ... and we've traded two 1sts and a 2nd to move up 3 spots to draft Griffin. If the Raiders are willing to part with two 1st round picks for a gimpy, older Carson Palmer or the Cardinals are willing to trade a 2nd and a CB for Kolb (people forget Rodgers-Cromartie was part of that trade, if I'm not mistaken) ... why is it so hard to understand we might get a 2nd for Cousins?

[pjfootballer]

I saw this morning that Matt Cassell will probably opt out of his deal with the Vikings and become a free agent. Ponder would be all they have at this point as Freeman is a free agent also.

[Cliffmark1]

Cousins to Cleveland for a 2nd seems like a very Clevelandish thing to do. But hell so is drafting a 6"1 qb in the top 5..

Isn't RG3 6'2 and change.  I think we drafted RG3 with the idea height doesn't matter as much as talent.

 

 

I think we all forget how desperate teams are to find  a legit NFL QB....

There's reasons for teams to trade for Kirk.  I wonder if we forgot what its like for teams to want to have your players. 

 

I would have said we should wait for a first but the last three games were not great for his value.  I think it established a floor for KC which was still NFL starter not the Beck style but he didn't come out blazing either.  It does help us understand  around Chicago RG3 was playing well.  I mean he really wasn't bad and the media piled on.  I could see RG3 making a big jump this offseason, which sucks because I don't think the rest of the teams will be ready for him to actualize a deep playoff run. 

People are overvaluing KC the most the skins could possibly get for him is a third

I thought there were written (ESPN etc) rumors we've already been offered a third.

[RonArtest15]

Kult of Kirk...

[Bonez3]

For every team in the NFL the chances of a third rounder even making the playing field is a risky proposition. The reality that a lot don't make the team or are out of league by 3rd year needs to be considered.

 

KC has a value beyond all that as backup. Thus late 1st or 2nd or the deal is a gamble that would depend on odds stacked against us to pay off.

 

Late 1st or 2nd or why bother...

[theTruthTeller]

This is NOT a QB heavy draft. There might be 3 legit QB options then a couple 1st/2nd round guys that will need to be groomed. If we are asking for a 2nd, Cousins really isn't that heavy a cost for teams that are DESPERATE for a QB.

 

 

I think we all forget how desperate teams are to find  a legit NFL QB. Just look at the history of picks that have been traded? Hell, we are even victims ourselves ... we've witnessed a number of mid-to-late 1st round picks that just haven't panned (Campbell, Ramsey) ... and we've traded two 1sts and a 2nd to move up 3 spots to draft Griffin. If the Raiders are willing to part with two 1st round picks for a gimpy, older Carson Palmer or the Cardinals are willing to trade a 2nd and a CB for Kolb (people forget Rodgers-Cromartie was part of that trade, if I'm not mistaken) ... why is it so hard to understand we might get a 2nd for Cousins?

These post kind of sum up the arguments that we might get a first or second for Cousins.  And we might - stranger things have happened.  So I thought I waste everyone's time with a drawn out post about the considerations a FO might view as valuable in deciding how to get a new starting QB.

 

To get off track right from the get go, let me throw this out.  This thread is obsessed with getting a high draft pick for KC.  I think its at least equally possible that a trade would be made with a team that has a similarly capable player that is riding the bench.  If that player isn't a QB or RB, there's a pretty good chance that the Skins could use him.  But I won't address the possibilities here, mostly because I don't know much about players who aren't playing.

 

Also, everyone who needs a quarterback isn't necessarily deciding between drafting one or trading for Kirk Cousins.  Some of the teams that are looking to upgrade will be releasing their current QB and those QBs will be competition.  Plus Michael Vick will be around, probably Matt Flynn and Cassel.

 

Postulate #1:  Good teams overvalue their current picks and bad teams undervalue their future picks.  Especially now, when there are huge financial benefits to signing rookies, teams look at their picks as gold - you can get a star for $1M/year.  Did you know that Josh Morgan makes almost twice as much per year as Dallas's Dez Bryant, Cole Beasley and Dwayne Harris combined?  The reason that bad teams overvalue their future picks is that they think that the trade itself will reduce the value of the picks i.e., their record will improve, and if it doesn't work out they'll get fired anyway - so its someone else's problem.  See: Shanahan, Mike.

 

Postulate #2:  The fans, and probably the owner, remember mistakes more than successes.  Meaning that if you stretch for a player, and it doesn't work out, you're inept and stupid.  See: McNabb, Donovan.  If it does work out, that's the player the fans wanted anyway.  Another way to say this is "don't go out of your way to make yourself look stupid; there's another job on the horizon if you play it safe."

 

Postulate #3:  Everyone values their own players more than other teams players, and no player is more over-loved than the backup quarterback on a bad team.  Everyone here has seen the good things Kirk Cousins can do.  Similarly, college fans in Big 10 country know what he can do.  Everyone else has no idea who he is.  If you asked a Denver fan if they should consider trading for Kirk Cousins to be ready to take over for Manning, they'd say " who's cousin do you think can replace Manning?".  I'll admit, I have no idea who the backup quarterback is in Denver.  Or Jacksonville, or Arizona, or a lot of other teams.  I just know the ones that needed to play, like McKown and Cassel.

 

So let's apply these immutable theories to Kirk Cousins.  I think we'd all agree that if someone trades a first or second rounder to get KC, then KC has to be declared the starter.  Postulates #1 and #2 demand it.  Maybe a FO would part with a #3 to allow a training camp competition with an existing QB, such as would be the case in Cleveland with Hoyer or Minnesota with Ponder or Cassel (at least when he finds out that no one wants him as a starter other than MInnesota).  So I think that caps him at a #3 with Cleveland and Minnesota, leaving Tennessee, St. Louis (if they cut Bradford), Jacksonville, Houston and Oakland as teams that desperately need a QB.

 

Houston has the #1 and they would be killed if they didn't take a QB with it, plus I don't think they see Cousins as an upgrade over Keenum (Postulate #3).  They've bucked the rules before, taking Mario Williams over Vince Young, but I don't think they'll do that here.  Whichever QB they take, as long it isn't Derek Carr, the fans will fall in love with.  So they are out.  St. Louis has the #2 (tears rolling down cheek), but I think they they'll trade down regardless of what they do with Bradford, so they are still in the KC sweepstakes.  Jacksonville is #3 so they are assured of one of the big three, but I think because they have so many needs, they'll be willing to suck another year and get Winston in 2015, so they'll take an OT.

 

This leaves two of the big three QBs available when Oakland picks, which means that there is a possibility that both Tennessee  and Oakland get shots at top QBs without trading up.

 

Jacksonville and St. Louis are still wild cards.  However, if St. Louis cuts Bradford, Jacksonville could pick him up for nothing.  It would be hard for Jacksonville to justify trading a high second rounder to get Cousins when Bradford was available.  St. Louis will, of course, have their choice of QBs at #2 other than the one that Houston picks, or should will be able to pick up Carr with their own pick at #13.  Jacksonville is better off getting a veteran in 2014 who can groom Winston or someone else in 2015.  They have a lot of needs, they don't need a QB right now.  I see a strong possibility of Michael Vick going there - he wants a starting position and I see that as his only realistic opportunity.  Plus that will almost assure that they'll get the #1 pick in 2015.

 

Even though I don't think Cleveland or Minnesota will give a second rounder for KC, I do see a third rounder.  And Arizona needs to groom an eventual starter, so that is a possibility for a #3 as well.  And a lot of contenders would feel better with a backup QB upgrade, so that is a possibility for a third or fourth rounder.  Although, I don't know if I'd trade Cousins for a fourth rounder, unless its a draft day trade with a particular player available.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

TruthTeller ...

 

Solid post. A couple points in response to what you postulated ... 1) I do not think the Rams will outright release Bradford. I think the two parties will come to a deal that restructures him on, maybe, a shorter contract, to let him get healthy and prove himself and get that big deal, if he earns it, in a year or two. I can't see them outright releasing him and if they do, I could see them using #2 on a QB. I do see them as a Cousins candidate if they can trade back from #2 and grab a lot of picks in the process ... and justify sending their 2nd rounder to us.

 

As for Jacksonville ... I think they'll go Manziel hands down if he's there. The guy has ticket sales written all over him. There's no guarantee Winston will come out next year and right now, they need to sell tickets. They went OT with Joeckel last year ... I just can't see them going OT again at #3 since that would essentially be their future RT, which you can get with a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I could maybe see them going defense there, but honestly can't see them doing anything BUT QB at #3 since at least one of the Top 3 guys would be there.

 

You state that Oakland and Minnesota will likely have access to one of the Top 3 guys but I don't think that is at all likely. I think Bridgewater, Manziel and Bortles will go 1,3,4 ... I can't see the Browns not going QB there at #4 ... and the ONLY reason I can see them skipping the QB position is if they have sent the 2nd pick to us pre-draft for Cousins. I get that they have Hoyer, but the dude just tore his ACL and is anything but a sure-thing, even when healthy.

[theTruthTeller]

TruthTeller ...

 

Solid post. A couple points in response to what you postulated ... 1) I do not think the Rams will outright release Bradford. I think the two parties will come to a deal that restructures him on, maybe, a shorter contract, to let him get healthy and prove himself and get that big deal, if he earns it, in a year or two. I can't see them outright releasing him and if they do, I could see them using #2 on a QB. I do see them as a Cousins candidate if they can trade back from #2 and grab a lot of picks in the process ... and justify sending their 2nd rounder to us.

 

As for Jacksonville ... I think they'll go Manziel hands down if he's there. The guy has ticket sales written all over him. There's no guarantee Winston will come out next year and right now, they need to sell tickets. They went OT with Joeckel last year ... I just can't see them going OT again at #3 since that would essentially be their future RT, which you can get with a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I could maybe see them going defense there, but honestly can't see them doing anything BUT QB at #3 since at least one of the Top 3 guys would be there.

 

You state that Oakland and Minnesota will likely have access to one of the Top 3 guys but I don't think that is at all likely. I think Bridgewater, Manziel and Bortles will go 1,3,4 ... I can't see the Browns not going QB there at #4 ... and the ONLY reason I can see them skipping the QB position is if they have sent the 2nd pick to us pre-draft for Cousins. I get that they have Hoyer, but the dude just tore his ACL and is anything but a sure-thing, even when healthy.

You're right about Bradford, I was going to slip in that possibility, but the post was long enough as is.

 

I think if Jacksonville used its picks wisely this year, and still had the #1 pick next year, Winston would definitely come out.  Barring injury, he'll probably come out anyway.  He'll be 21 years old and I don't think he'll risk injury in a third year.

 

Manziel is a ticket machine for sure.  Cleveland could also make a move to get him on draft day.  You're probably right that Jacksonville would have a tougher time sucking for another year than Cleveland, whose fans must be conditioned to eternal sucking by now.  I just think that Vick and Jacksonville would be a pretty good match for a year.  They'd be better off with a veteran QB right now anyway.  And they should move to LA, but that's a different story.

 

Because Kyle is in Cleveland and because they are Big 10 country, its a legitimate possibility.  I just don't see it as an urgency.  I think they may want him, but only for a #3.  They could sell that to their fans.  Their #2 will be too high a pick.

 

I think in general people tend to see the QBs going early in the draft, but it doesn't always play out that way.  I can see some movement in the first four picks by teams that trade down to good teams that need something other than a QB, especially with two good OTs and a DE available.  That would really mix things up.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Kult of Kirk...

it's real brah....

[War Paint]

Whatever they decide to do, they better be careful. Putting all your marbles into a fragile, unproven RGIII is very dangerous. This is not negativity or hating on RGIII and I hope the kid bounces back and is our QB for the next 12 years. But I am dubious of him. His body is not made to play NFL QB the way he needs to to be successful.

RG3 isn't fragile.  He's actually pretty tough and his size is fine. The problem is that he plays too reckless and exposes himself to unnecessary hits that would injure any player. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I think in general people tend to see the QBs going early in the draft, but it doesn't always play out that way.  I can see some movement in the first four picks by teams that trade down to good teams that need something other than a QB, especially with two good OTs and a DE available.  That would really mix things up.

 

Would you take their two 3rds? It might be an easier sell to their fanbase, but the two 3rds would actually have a higher draft chart value than the 2nd, believe it or not.

 

For some reason, trading two 3rd rounders doesn't sound nearly as "much" as trading a high 2nd on paper and to a fan base (both sides), but in the end, our value with those picks is apparently higher.

 

*Correction: Cleveland holds picks 71 and 83 in the 3rd round (picks 7 and 21). The value of those picks are 235 and 175 for a combined value of 410* ... the Browns 2nd rounder is 35 and valued at 550.

 

While I would prefer a 2nd ... I also wouldn't have a huge issue with three 3rd round picks in addition to our early 2nd

[theTruthTeller]

Would you take their two 3rds? It might be an easier sell to their fanbase, but the two 3rds would actually have a higher draft chart value than the 2nd, believe it or not.

 

For some reason, trading two 3rd rounders doesn't sound nearly as "much" as trading a high 2nd on paper and to a fan base (both sides), but in the end, our value with those picks is apparently higher.

 

*Correction: Cleveland holds picks 71 and 83 in the 3rd round (picks 7 and 21). The value of those picks are 235 and 175 for a combined value of 410* ... the Browns 2nd rounder is 35 and valued at 550.

 

While I would prefer a 2nd ... I also wouldn't have a huge issue with three 3rd round picks in addition to our early 2nd

I'd be happy with this year's pick at 7 in the third round coupled with next year's third round pick.

 

One thing that's worth noting - KC will fetch a lot more if there are two teams interested in him.  I really don't see more than a single third round pick from Cleveland if they are the only bidder.  If both Cleveland and, perhaps, Minnesota were interested, then maybe it would push interest to a #2.

[mistertim]

As someone pointed out, the equivalent of 34 to 26 is 140 points, or roughly a mid-to-late 3rd rounder (pick 90 to be exact) ... so pick 25 in the 3rd round.

 

We could do much better than that, I think.

 

And for people saying "we are overvaluing him" ... who's to say you're UNDERvaluing him? If Clayton says he's perceived to be a 2nd round value, today, that remains consistent with what people were saying before the 3 starts in 2013. So his stock didn't take a huge hit. If experts and GMs are saying he is a 2nd round value, how are you suddenly an expert? We are just saying what we are hearing.

IIRC Clayton simply voiced his opinion that KC was worth a 2nd but others disagree. I like Cousins but I just don't look at his resume in the NFL and see "high round pick" trade value. Let's face it, if the shoe was on the other foot and the Skins traded a high 2nd rounder or even a 1st for a guy with the numbers that Cousins has there would be frothing at the mouth and cries of a stupid FO dooming the Skins again. Cousins has had some nice flashes but so have many backups in the league. He still turns the ball over way too much to warrant a high draft pick, I'd think.

[LadySkinsFan]

I hate that we trade our draft picks back and back.  Sure we get more draft picks, but the rounds they are in, usually 5th, 6th, and 7th.  I'd like to keep our picks right where they are.  We need to pick better players.

 

On topic: If someone wants Cousins, then trade him.

[DJD2]

I saw this morning that Matt Cassell will probably opt out of his deal with the Vikings and become a free agent. Ponder would be all they have at this point as Freeman is a free agent also.

 

With Zimmer's connection to Gruden, and now Norv talking about different ways to add a young QB, this could be a potential landing spot.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/06/norv-turner-everyones-in-agreement-that-were-trying-to-add-a-young-quarterback/

[skins island connection]

Why is everyone so concerned if Griffin gets hurt that Cousins is the "only" QB in the entire NFL that could back him up and run the offense?  Are the other QBs in the league that stupid or not talented enough to come in to be the backup?  Get for real.  If we get offered a 2nd or 1st, you make the deal, don't look back and go out and get a veteran backup.  The hell with the cap ramifications.  It's not like we don't have the cap space to sign a backup QB.  You guys act like Cousins is married to Griffin and one can't function without the other.  He wasn't drafted to be his lifelong buddy or eternal backup.  The guy wants to play and if we can accomodate him and get something significant for him, you pull the trigger.

 

 Sorry I couldn't get back to this sooner, my fingers have been frozen! 

 

 I'm not trying to give Griffin any hate, i'm looking at this from a totally team-oriented approach. If Griffin improves, great for everyone; but if he doesn't, or he gets injured again, especially now that players are being steered to tackle below the chest, its almost a matter of time before he gets hurt, IF he doesn't learn to start sliding/making other moves to preserve his health.

 

Kirk is the back-up; Griffin shouldn't have to look over his shoulders worrying Kirk might start getting attention; if Griffin is that conceited, then he's already doomed. I'm not making this an anti-Griffin discussion or hating on the guy, but some Griffin homers are certainly making it into one.  I could type/talk til i'm blue in the face about not hating on anyone, but some will believe what they want to, and its their mistake not mine.

Bottom line is, Kirk has familiarity with the players already, he's young, and worth much more to the team, and i'd much rather see Kirk going in instead of Grossman or someone else who can't help.

So, by some's viewpoint, if Griffin goes down, and we're sitting at 6-3 or 6-4, putting in Grossman is giving up on the season; putting Kirk in does give hope to continue, and thats the point of having more than 1 player at a position, so they can hopefully pick up where the starter left off, or at the least, not lose the game. Kirk is by far the best option in this scenario.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

With Zimmer's connection to Gruden, and now Norv talking about different ways to add a young QB, this could be a potential landing spot.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/06/norv-turner-everyones-in-agreement-that-were-trying-to-add-a-young-quarterback/

Yes. Right now, Minnesota is most logical for me. Where they sit with the 8th pick they won't sniff either Bridgewater, Manziel or Bortles unless they trade up to #2. I also don't see them reaching for Derek Carr at 8 ... especially knowing that AP is in his twilight years and they don't really have time (1-2 years) to groom a new guy. I understand rookies have been stepping in immediately, but the "top 3" guys are still not to the level of previous years, and Carr (rated as a 2nd by many) would need extra time to develop. Cousins is young but has a couple years in the NFL and there is tape on him at this level. I think the 40th pick from Minnesota is a decent place to start.

 

I hate that we trade our draft picks back and back.  Sure we get more draft picks, but the rounds they are in, usually 5th, 6th, and 7th.  I'd like to keep our picks right where they are.  We need to pick better players.

 

On topic: If someone wants Cousins, then trade him.

While I tend to agree with you on this, our early 2nd at 34 holds a lot of value. Teams rarely trade back 20 spots at one time, but the value chart equivalent of trading from 34 to 55 is a 3rd and 5th. So you could theoretically gain another 3rd and still stay in the 2nd round. If you are able to trade Cousins for another early 2nd, it would make sense to stand pat at one and trade back with the other to accumulate picks. The more picks the merrier. I understand a 6th rounder isn't necessarily as promising ... but if you can add a 3rd and 5th that should equate to a solid depth contributor and a potential Day 1 starter. Just my thought. You only really do it if you feel there are multiple guys you want and you think one of them can still be there where you trade down to. With it being such a deep draft, I could certainly see that happening.

[pjfootballer]

Kirk is the back-up; Griffin shouldn't have to look over his shoulders worrying Kirk might start getting attention; if Griffin is that conceited, then he's already doomed. I'm not making this an anti-Griffin discussion or hating on the guy, but some Griffin homers are certainly making it into one. I could type/talk til i'm blue in the face about not hating on anyone, but some will believe what they want to, and its their mistake not mine.

Bottom line is, Kirk has familiarity with the players already, he's young, and worth much more to the team, and i'd much rather see Kirk going in instead of Grossman or someone else who can't help.

So, by some's viewpoint, if Griffin goes down, and we're sitting at 6-3 or 6-4, putting in Grossman is giving up on the season; putting Kirk in does give hope to continue, and thats the point of having more than 1 player at a position, so they can hopefully pick up where the starter left off, or at the least, not lose the game. Kirk is by far the best option in this scenario.

For the record, I want Grossman off the roster this year. It's time. Even if we traded Kirk, I'd want a younger backup then Rex.

[Bang]

For the record, I want Grossman off the roster this year. It's time. Even if we traded Kirk, I'd want a younger backup then Rex.

I don't think rex gets promoted. i can certainly see him back in his current role,,  inactive, extra coach, although with the Shanny offense gone, that could be unlikely. Seems to me if Rex is going to be let go. now's the time.

if we trade Kirk, we pick up a scrap or draft one late.

 

~Bang

[theTruthTeller]

...

Kirk is the back-up; Griffin shouldn't have to look over his shoulders worrying Kirk might start getting attention; if Griffin is that conceited, then he's already doomed. I'm not making this an anti-Griffin discussion or hating on the guy, but some Griffin homers are certainly making it into one.  I could type/talk til i'm blue in the face about not hating on anyone, but some will believe what they want to, and its their mistake not mine.

Bottom line is, Kirk has familiarity with the players already, he's young, and worth much more to the team, and i'd much rather see Kirk going in instead of Grossman or someone else who can't help.

...

Let me try to explain the trade-if-we-can-get-something-of-value position.

 

Here are margin of victory/loss for 2013 for each game:

Philly    -6

BG       -18

Det       -7

Oak      +10

Dallas   -15

Chic     +4

Denv    -24

SD       +6 (OT)

Minn    -7

Philly   -8

SF      -21

NYG    -7

KC     -35

Atl       -1

DC      -1

NYG    -14

 

Out of the first 13 games, four of those were definitely winnable if we had better line play or better receivers.  Or even better special teams.  If the Skins had gone into the final three games at 7-6 or 6-7, it would have been an entirely different season.  KC may be a good backup, but he has no way to contribute unless Griffin gets hurt.

 

There is no guarantee that if we get a player or a decent draft choice for KC that it will result in a better starter.  Just like there is no guarantee that KC will play meaningful minutes next year.  And there is no guarantee that if KC does come in for an injured RG3 that the team will win.

 

If you were picking teams from scratch, at what point would you choose a backup QB?  Before you had all of your starting line positions filled?  Before you had two decent wide receivers?  Before you had a MLB or a decent safety?

 

As I've said earlier, I don't expect more than a third for Cousins and that would need to be a draft day decision as to whether its worth a trade based what's left on the board.

[Taylor703]

For the record, I want Grossman off the roster this year. It's time. Even if we traded Kirk, I'd want a younger backup then Rex.

Aww come on pj. I love when the camera pans over to Rex sitting on the bench in his redskins winter cap, enjoying a hot dog. That guy is living the life.