ESPN: Kirk Cousins Open to Being Traded

[RandyHolt]

I remain in awe of all the people that believe trading KC is a good idea....

 

It simply makes no sense at all to me.

I'll take a stab at making sense of it.

 

Suppose Gruden looks at the current QB draft crop and decides Cousins is worth a 3rd-4th in this draft. He grades a few rated in the 4th round the same as Cousins. A GM comes calling saying they will offer a late 1st for him, enamored with those deep balls and pro experience; saw him on youtube. Classic overpaying for a backup QB. It's our big chance to get a 1st back, an every down guy that can maybe help on the field at the same time as RG3. It seems like GMing 101.

 

Do we know for fact that developing 2nd QBs at the same time is a priority to Gruden, and that he knows it is a healthy environment for both? Even a noob poster here would know there aren't enough reps to go around for both to develop to fruition.

 

It seems like coaches often like to have a vet QB on the team. Don't you think there is some value in not having to carry 3 QBs again? Maybe we can get an ace return man next year freeing up that roster spot.

 

About the injury theory, it can happen to every teams QB. And it is why you have a backup.  We can always draft more QBs if we break bust or trade our pool. Or acquire one in a trade or in free agency.

 

Do any of those make any sense why fans would want to move him?

[War Paint]

If we were solid at all starting positions, or at least 90% of our starting positions, I'd agree with you.  But, right now, if we can trade a bench player for a potential starter, that's a risk worth taking.

 

 

Yeah, but what gives you confidence that our front office will find a starter with the mid-round pick we'd get for Cousins?  Our 2012 3rd round pick was inactive all of last season because he came into camp like 60 lbs. overweight.

[pjfootballer]

Yeah, but what gives you confidence that our front office will find a starter with the mid-round pick we'd get for Cousins? Our 2012 3rd round pick was inactive all of last season because he came into camp like 60 lbs. overweight.

Because the guy making the picks is no longer here. You can't base what the FO will do based on past drafts since this is a new structure. I mean jeez guys, at least give the new FO a chance. You just like I can't do a damn thing about who they select. We can only hope as fans that it turns out right. And the past regime actually made some good picks in the past, plus, Josh is not a total bust as he's still on the roster with the new regime.

[Riggo#44]

Yeah, but what gives you confidence that our front office will find a starter with the mid-round pick we'd get for Cousins?  Our 2012 3rd round pick was inactive all of last season because he came into camp like 60 lbs. overweight.

 

You know what increases our odds for better players? More draft picks--especially from trading players that, ideally, will never see the field. And players who are easily replaceable.

[theTruthTeller]

Yeah, but what gives you confidence that our front office will find a starter with the mid-round pick we'd get for Cousins?  Our 2012 3rd round pick was inactive all of last season because he came into camp like 60 lbs. overweight.

I have no confidence whatsoever.  If we get a starter out of the deal we'd be lucky.  But maybe we'll get lucky.

 

As I said, I don't expect anyone to offer a good draft choice for him - so I don't really expect anything to happen.  As I've said multiple times, you make the trade if you value what is being offered more than a second string QB. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Well jesus christ, why even bother holding any draft picks if you don't think we can make any good picks. My god, let's trade all of them for RFAs and build through free agency!

 

You say you don't trust us to use a "mid round pick" because the LAST regime busted on a number of them. Then again, they also hit on quite a few (Riley in 4th, Morris in 6th, Crawford in 7th, Jordan Reed in the 3rd) with plenty of others still to be determined ... oh and Kirk Cousins. He's a 4th rounder. If you can flip him for an early 2nd where you can get a Day 1 Starter OR trade back into the mid-to-late 2nd and get a 3rd and 4th and get possibly 2 starters and a key depth guy ... WHY WOULD YOU HOLD ONTO YOUR BACKUP QB.

 

Oh, and that would be great futurecasting by the FO you just bashed ... to draft a guy in the 4th to trade for a 2nd ... come on man. You're really not helping your cause here.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

This would be horrible for us.  Why would we trade KC just to move up 8 spots?  I don't see any situation happening that there would be someone availabe at 26 that has no chance of dropping to 34 that I would be willing to have a hole at BU QB for. 

Read my post, a lot of people think we can get a first rounder for him.  I was pointing out that the only way we get a first round pick for Kirk would be a scenario like this one, which I said is a stretch.  How would this be horrible for us, should something like this happen?   You are talking a difference in 8 spots, that's a fairly large gap.  

 

If Cleveland offered us their 2nd round pick for Cousins and we take the offer, how is that any different?  We don't know which players will fall, which will be taken way higher than they are worth, etc.  There are only a handful of givens. Try looking at from the perspective of it would put us in a better position to land a stud player, that dropped in the first round from say a projected #14 or #15 pick to a #26.  

 

 Looking over the mock drafts/predictions.  I wouldn't mind having a shot at Cyrus Kouandjio, OT, Alabama, projected to go #27.  Or my man Kelvin Benjamin, WR, FSU who is projected at #28.  These projections are all over the place of course, depending which mocks you are looking at.  My point is, talent like that may drop in the first round to later first round picks, but most likely will not make it to the 2nd round.  

[Bang]

You know what increases our odds for better players? More draft picks--especially from trading players that, ideally, will never see the field. And players who are easily replaceable.

This is the answer to the question of whether you can trust the FO.

 

The eagles of the last decade are a good example of this, Patriots as well.   they have a lot of guys that get cast aside and don't make it, but they stockpile those picks and always pick 9 or 10 or even 11 guys in a 7 round draft.

 

If our FO recognizes this it shows a significant shift in draft thinking towards the positive. It stands to reason they will do the rest of the job more carefully than the previous regimes.

 

 

~Bang

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Yeah, but what gives you confidence that our front office will find a starter with the mid-round pick we'd get for Cousins?  Our 2012 3rd round pick was inactive all of last season because he came into camp like 60 lbs. overweight.

Why put all your confidence in a back-up QB that lost all three of his starts last season?  I love Kirk, I think he is a good/above average back-up with starter potential (in the right system).  I am also willing to trade him for a draft pick, preferably a #2 or #3 minimum with the hope to draft another starter.

 

If flipping Todd Collins can come in and win 4 games in a row for us to get us to the playoffs, I'm sure we can find another FA back-up QB that could as well.  

 

Bottom line, we don't know what we are going to get should RGIII go down again, and RGIII should have been playing the entire season, he wasn't injured.  We all know it was Shanny slapping Dan in the face cause he could and he wanted to ensure he would be fired so he could collect that paycheck and take another year off.

 

You don't not pull the trigger on a trade that favors your situation based on playing the "What if...." game.  You don't build around your back-up QB.  You don't not make moves to better your team cause your scared your starter might get hurt.  Which didn't happen last year so why should we think it would happen next year?

[Wyvern]

It's amazing, how people are generalizing how Cousins was a fourth round pick, therefore a fourth round draft value today. They then use that type of mental pre-judgement to assess his body of work, to point out where Cousins made mistakes, and conclude, he's not worth "pocket lint." A convenient, yet superficial analysis.

Folks, one thing we all learn from the draft is: where a player gets picked in the draft does not determine what kind of level of NFL player he'll become.

For example, both the current QBs of the 49'ers and the Seahawks happened to slide in their draft. And meanwhile, we should remember that a lot of pre-draft prognosticators had Cousins ranked much higher than the 4th round. But Cousins slid, and the Redskins got a steal -- a BPA young apprentice backup for their future "franchise-QB-in-waiting." Better than a 4th rounder, but how much better? A lot of that kind of eventual assessment depends on whether there's enough opportunity given for the 'lower draft pick' to develop and showcase his talent.

For example, both Wilson and Kaepernick got moved into the starting QB slot, because the incumbent was struggling, and that they got a chance to show they were quality players in their own right, and leaders who could leverage the high levels of offensive talent they were getting to work with.

But that's not going to happen for Cousins and the Skins-2014. As you know, Gruden has already proclaimed Griffin as the starter; so there'll be no 'competition' in training camp or preseason. The FO is gambling Griffin comes back 100%, health wise', gets back to his physical form of 2012, and stays injury-free for the next couple of years. And if the 2013 Griffin emerges in 2014, well, the Skins will make more effort to coach him up, design plays around him ... Whatever it takes to keep "RG3" on the field as the starting QB for the Redskins.

So, for the foreseeable future, there will be no chance for Cousins to be anything but a backup, waiting for the moment, that the Skins owner (and his hand-picked coach) never wants to see happen. (Let's face it, they've put all their eggs in #10's basket --- and on so many levels.)

Consider, if the front office brought YOU in and told you how you've got to resign yourself to simply being a "clipboard-holder" for Griffin, even if the team winds up losing games as Griffin struggles while he's trying to come back and demonstrate he's got reliable talent and execution as a QB at the NFL level ... Perhaps you too might be "open" for finding a different environment -- that will offer better opportunities to discover whether you might actually be good enough be that next backup who ascends to starter status?

I'd love it if Cousins was willing to stay with the team (especially as I assume no one will buy what will likely be a high trading price demanded by the Skins,) waiting for any kind of chance. But frankly, Cousins is a high-character player who deserves better --- and I'd love it if he could escape the Redskins' SOS (Same Old Snyder) environment.

So if the Skins should bite on a third-rounder, I'd be glad for Cousins, regardless of what happens for Griffin in 2014. But even then, this won't be good for the Skins unless the Skins FO and Scott Campbell actually pick a decent player with the extra pick(s)for Cousins. And candidly, there have been too many high picks blown on folks like Jarvis "Jelly-Roll" Jenkins, and Le-FatRibs, for me to have a lot of confidence there.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

If Cleveland offered us their 2nd round pick for Cousins and we take the offer, how is that any different?  We don't know which players will fall, which will be taken way higher than they are worth, etc.  There are only a handful of givens. Try looking at from the perspective of it would put us in a better position to land a stud player, that dropped in the first round from say a projected #14 or #15 pick to a #26.  

 

It's MUCH different. If Cleveland gives us a 2nd for Cousins, then we have two picks in the first two rounds. If we give them our 2nd and Cousins for their 1st, then we have one pick in the first two rounds. 

[War Paint]

Why put all your confidence in a back-up QB that lost all three of his starts last season? 

Well, maybe because I watched the games and saw the circumstances behind those loses.  We didn't lose to Atlanta and Dallas because of Kirk.

[technomusic]

Why is everyone so concerned if Griffin gets hurt that Cousins is the "only" QB in the entire NFL that could back him up and run the offense?  Are the other QBs in the league that stupid or not talented enough to come in to be the backup?  Get for real.  If we get offered a 2nd or 1st, you make the deal, don't look back and go out and get a veteran backup.  The hell with the cap ramifications.  It's not like we don't have the cap space to sign a backup QB.  You guys act like Cousins is married to Griffin and one can't function without the other.  He wasn't drafted to be his lifelong buddy or eternal backup.  The guy wants to play and if we can accomodate him and get something significant for him, you pull the trigger.

 

 

Colt Mccoy is not as good as Colin Kapernick

 

Tavaris jackson is not as good as Russell Wilson

 

Derek Anderson is not as good as Cam Newton

 

Tyrod Taylor is not as good Joe Flacco

 

Chase Daniel is not as good as Alex

 

i could on and on

 

 

the idea is that a BACKUP qb is NOT supposed to be as good as your starter for legit competition, but only able to hold the fort down and play a little decent, someone like a Thad lewis is a great backup... Kirk Cousins on the other hand is a potential STARTER.....  he and Robert are the same age....  that is basically  competition for the job with the qb you traded 3 number 1's for... smh.... RG3 was set up to fail... imagine if the redksins struggled his first year.... the fans would be doing what they are doing now... calling for his backup who was taken in the same draft as he.. too replace him.... I dont think you will ever see a team take 2 qb's with their first  2 draft picks again in our lifetime... Its not fair to the qb you took in the first round, or the one you took after.... you can call a serviceable guy like a Vince Young to hold the fort down.... until your starter gets better... Look at Aaron Rodgers when he missed time and Matt Flynn threw 6td's... and 400 yards againist the lions... im sure Aaron Rodgers had some input on whether he felt comfortable with Matt Flynn as his backup....  thus he was shipped out

 

some of it comes too the redskins kinda being a poorly run franchise... the colts wouldnt do that with Luck.... they wouldnt have taken Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins in the 3rd or 4th round... after they got their guy

[Epochalypse]

technomusic's post

So.

 

Much.

 

Wrong.

[bradboyd80]

 

I dont think you will ever see a team take 2 qb's with their first  2 draft picks again in our lifetime... Its not fair to the qb you took in the first round, or the one you took after.... you can call a serviceable guy like a Vince Young to hold the fort down.... until your starter gets better... Look at Aaron Rodgers when he missed time and Matt Flynn threw 6td's... and 400 yards againist the lions... im sure Aaron Rodgers had some input on whether he felt comfortable with Matt Flynn as his backup....  thus he was shipped out

 

some of it comes too the redskins kinda being a poorly run franchise... the colts wouldnt do that with Luck.... they wouldnt have taken Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins in the 3rd or 4th round... after they got their guy

RG and KC were not taken back to back (RG3 in the 1st, Leribus in the 3rd, and KC in the 4th). And obviously I'm not a Packers insider or anything, but I bet its much more likely that Flynn left because his value skyrocketed. Not because Rodgers wasn't comfortable with him being challenged for the starting job.

 

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, didn't Flynn leave GB after his rookie contract expired instead of being "dealt"?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Yeah, Flynn was a free agent and just didn't re-sign. Damn right you bet the Packers would have tried to trade him if he had tht kind of performance with 2 years left on his deal!

 

Also, for those discussing the notion of swapping 34 for 26 and Cousins ... the difference between those 8 spots is equivalent to a 3rd rounder. Theoretically, you could trade back a couple of times and possibly amass some mid round picks, or stand pat. If we did that I would hope we just trade back and accumulate picks.

 

I heard one notion that we could do that move and get Cleveland's 3rd .. so in a sense, we are getting the equivalent of two 3rd rounders. That would be equal a 2nd, ultimately, based on draft value.

 

I say you trade for their 35th outright. You use 34 on a player that you really want that falls to that spot, and you trade off 35 and get back into the 50's and accumulate a 3rd and 5th in the process (difference, value wise, between 35 and 55 is exactly that).

 

Or, if no one you want falls to 34 ... trade back from 34 and 35 and accumulate a bunch of picks in the 3rd and 4th round range.

[pjfootballer]

So.

 

Much.

 

Wrong.

Agreed.  See my response below.

 

Colt Mccoy is not as good as Colin Kapernick

 

Tavaris jackson is not as good as Russell Wilson

 

Derek Anderson is not as good as Cam Newton

 

Tyrod Taylor is not as good Joe Flacco

 

Chase Daniel is not as good as Alex

 

i could on and on

 

 

the idea is that a BACKUP qb is NOT supposed to be as good as your starter for legit competition, but only able to hold the fort down and play a little decent, someone like a Thad lewis is a great backup... Kirk Cousins on the other hand is a potential STARTER.....  he and Robert are the same age....  that is basically  competition for the job with the qb you traded 3 number 1's for... smh.... RG3 was set up to fail... imagine if the redksins struggled his first year.... the fans would be doing what they are doing now... calling for his backup who was taken in the same draft as he.. too replace him.... I dont think you will ever see a team take 2 qb's with their first  2 draft picks again in our lifetime... Its not fair to the qb you took in the first round, or the one you took after.... you can call a serviceable guy like a Vince Young to hold the fort down.... until your starter gets better... Look at Aaron Rodgers when he missed time and Matt Flynn threw 6td's... and 400 yards againist the lions... im sure Aaron Rodgers had some input on whether he felt comfortable with Matt Flynn as his backup....  thus he was shipped out

 

some of it comes too the redskins kinda being a poorly run franchise... the colts wouldnt do that with Luck.... they wouldnt have taken Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins in the 3rd or 4th round... after they got their guy

Yes, I know the backup is not supposed to be as good as the starter, hence why he is the starter.  Kirk is not as good as Griffin.  Even if Kirk is starting material and he does get a chance to start elsewhere, Griffin is still better than him.

 

Only a handful of fans are calling for the backup.  We're talking about a handful of fans.

 

We were very QB deficient.  It was Shanahan who picked Cousins.  None of us know why as we weren't in the draft room.  It tells you how QB deficient we were, Beck was released and Rex was made 3rd string.

 

We did not take them back to back.  One was in the 1st, the other in the 4th.  Sure, it's not fair, but no one expects a 4th round pick to come in and take the job.  Kirk has not done anything more than Griffin has to warrant him being the front runner going into camp.  That's why some of us would like to see Kirk traded, so he gets his chance and we get something in return for a good prospect.

 

Flynn left in free agency.  Rodgers had no say.

 

The Colts?  They took another QB (Chandler Harnish) in the 7th round the year they chose Luck. They were just as QB deficient as we were and were lucky to find Drew Stanton to back him up for the year.

 

Seattle?  It wasn't like they knew Wilson was "their guy."  You do realize they signed the afformentioned Flynn to a heafty contract to be their starter and Wilson was taken in the THIRD ROUND to be their backup.  Unbeknownced to them and the rest of the world, no one knew Wilson would outplay Flynn. 

 

So your examples of what Indy and Seattle did do not hold any water whatsoever. 

[Riggo#44]

We are at 8 pages of responses, this is response #293...and I still don't understand why it is so difficult for people to understand trading Cousins for a 2nd or so. If we don't get that offer, we keep him.

 

Is it that difficult?

[goskins10]

We are at 8 pages of responses, this is response #293...and I still don't understand why it is so difficult for people to understand trading Cousins for a 2nd or so. If we don't get that offer, we keep him.

 

Is it that difficult?

 

 

Because it's very slow right now and there is not much else to discuss. 

 

BTW: For the record, I agree, if you get a 2nd or better pull the trigger, any less he is more valuable to us.

[theTruthTeller]

We are at 8 pages of responses, this is response #293...and I still don't understand why it is so difficult for people to understand trading Cousins for a 2nd or so. If we don't get that offer, we keep him.

 

Is it that difficult?

Just wait until I start the "Should we deal Chase Minnifield for NE's #3" thread.

[Mocountyskins]

Just wait until I start the "Should we deal Chase Minnifield for NE's #3" thread.

 

A three is too low if we can't get a 1st its not worth it. Keep him.

[Thekyle1591]

Cousins to Cleveland for a 2nd seems like a very Clevelandish thing to do. But hell so is drafting a 6"1 qb in the top 5..

[War Paint]

Well jesus christ, why even bother holding any draft picks if you don't think we can make any good picks. My god, let's trade all of them for RFAs and build through free agency!

 

You say you don't trust us to use a "mid round pick" because the LAST regime busted on a number of them. Then again, they also hit on quite a few (Riley in 4th, Morris in 6th, Crawford in 7th, Jordan Reed in the 3rd) with plenty of others still to be determined ... oh and Kirk Cousins. He's a 4th rounder. If you can flip him for an early 2nd where you can get a Day 1 Starter OR trade back into the mid-to-late 2nd and get a 3rd and 4th and get possibly 2 starters and a key depth guy ... WHY WOULD YOU HOLD ONTO YOUR BACKUP QB.

 

Oh, and that would be great futurecasting by the FO you just bashed ... to draft a guy in the 4th to trade for a 2nd ... come on man. You're really not helping your cause here.

Way to go over the top.  Just because people don't think it's worth trading our backup QB for a mid-round draft pick doesn't mean we don't value draft picks we already own.  How in the hell did you interpret that as "draft picks suck, let's get rid of all our draft picks?"

 

Riley is okay.  He isn't a playmaker.  Morris is a gem, but that was because Mike Shanahan is obsessed with RBs and drafts a lot of them, so that increases the odds of finding one that works out.  TE is usually a position that is usually deep in the mid-rounds where teams can find starters. Most scouting reports had Cousins as a 2nd-3rd round talent, so getting him in the 4th was a great bargain.

 

Let's look at our recent mid-round picks.   Heck, let's look at 2011.  Our 2nd round pick, Jarvis Jenkins is okay, but he isn't really an impact player.  Hankerson was a 3rd round pick.  He's okay, but not really an impact player.  In 2012, as already mentioned, Josh LeRibus in the 3rd round.  We drafted Keenan Robinson in the 4th.  He was injured so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how he turns out. In 2013, we drafted Philip Thomas in the 4th.  He was injured so he's also a wait and see. With our two 5th round picks, we drafted Chris Thompson and Brandon Jenkins.  They didn't do much.

[goskins10]

Way to go over the top.  Just because people don't think it's worth trading our backup QB for a mid-round draft pick doesn't mean we don't value draft picks we already own.  How in the hell did you interpret that as "draft picks suck, let's get rid of all our draft picks?"

 

 

 

I think you kind of missed the point. Several people have stated emphatically that they do not trust the current FO to make good use of a mid-round pick. Based on that logic, it really doesn't matter what we get. It will just be a waste. Quite frankly, the "I don't trust this FO to make a good decision" is just another trash the organization comment, for which there are an abundance of threads already available. But that's just my take.

 

To me that's not the question being asked. To me the question here is, in general what is the value of Kurt Cousins to the Redskins organization. It's reasonable to assume that the chances of any particular draft pick being a success is somewhere along the historical league odds of any picks from that round being a success, not just the ones made the now gone previous regime.

 

Again, answering the question I believe is being asked, for me the cutoff is a #2. Anything less, I believe Cousins is more valuable for us to keep him.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

It's MUCH different. If Cleveland gives us a 2nd for Cousins, then we have two picks in the first two rounds. If we give them our 2nd and Cousins for their 1st, then we have one pick in the first two rounds. 

I look at it as an opportunity to move up into a first round pick in a draft we already only had one pick in the first 2 rounds.  I see your point, yes we would get two high second round picks.  But say that's the only offer we get for Kirk, we take it because its for a back-up QB whose stock is going to continue to go down every year he backs up RGIII  (assuming he stays healthy).  Heck, if RGIII goes down, there still is no guarantee that Kirk is going to light it up and all of the sudden become the next Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, etc.  

 

Draft position value wise, the #26 pick is 700 points, the #34 is worth 560 points.  Theoretically, accepting a trade from Cleveland like that would make it like we only lost one future 1st round pick to the Rams (2013) and a 2nd round pick in 2014.  We still would only have one pick in the first two rounds regardless.  

 

I'd like the opportunity to draft a stud OT in the first round than settle for second round talent in the 2nd round.  

 

Again, I initially was only pointing out that I think the only way we get a first round pick for Cousins would be with Cleveland in a trade like that.  Meaning I don't think he is worth a 1st round pick.  One can hope they would give up that #26 pick straight up for Cousins, but I just don't see that happening.  And if we get offered their 2nd round pick straight up, we take it.   All this is pure speculation anyhow.