Steve young on MNF about RG3: "...its not his fault.... "

[justice98]

That was a stupid graphic. How many on that list were draft picks still on the rookie contracts? It would make sense if all those players were free agent signings.

Here are some figures for some of our players signed as FAs:

Fletcher $6.2

Morgan $5.1

Chester $4.3

Moss $4

Bowen $3.4

Montgomery $2.65

F. Davis $2.5

That's 7 players counting $28 million against the cap this season who aren't producing. These players were signed during the cap penalty years.

 

That's a fairly questionable use of $28mil when you lay it out like that.

[StephenDavis]

I don't get the sense that RG3 tries to be Superman though, trying to make a play every down.  He misses too many makeable plays for that to be the case.  

I believe that RGIII missing the open receivers is a result of him not being able to get into a rhythm.  On almost every throw RGIII is under pressure and no one is open, then all of a sudden someone is open and RGIII most assuredly gets excited and just misses the throw.  So yes I'm reverting the blame away from RGIII and to the play design and o-line.  

[justice98]

I believe that RGIII missing the open receivers is a result of him not being able to get into a rhythm.  On almost every throw RGIII is under pressure and no one is open, then all of a sudden someone is open and RGIII most assuredly gets excited and just misses the throw.  So yes I'm reverting the blame away from RGIII and to the play design and o-line.  

 

I don't disagree completely, but that's kinda discounting the myriad of instances of RG3 simply not seeing guys open and going somewhere else with the ball.  We hear it all the time from analysts that watch the tape, that he doesn't see the field all that well.  

 

As it pertains to the superman part, I'm just saying I don't think he's trying to make plays that aren't there. 

[NewCliche21]

That was a stupid graphic. How many on that list were draft picks still on the rookie contracts? It would make sense if all those players were free agent signings.

Here are some figures for some of our players signed as FAs:

Fletcher $6.2

Morgan $5.1

Chester $4.3

Moss $4

Bowen $3.4

Montgomery $2.65

F. Davis $2.5

That's 7 players counting $28 million against the cap this season who aren't producing. These players were signed during the cap penalty years.

 

Conversely, those are spots that had to be filled with the penalty in place which limited us from getting players who would produce.  You have to have a line even if you can't afford good people on it.  With the $36 million, we would have had better players in those spots.

 

Your analysis is incomplete and unfair.

 

I'm not a cap apologist, but reality is reality.

[Skins3000]

I don't disagree completely, but that's kinda discounting the myriad of instances of RG3 simply not seeing guys open and going somewhere else with the ball. We hear it all the time from analysts that watch the tape, that he doesn't see the field all that well.

As it pertains to the superman part, I'm just saying I don't think he's trying to make plays that aren't there.

[/quote

So the question becomes, how did RG3 see the field so well last year but seem to be so gun shy and lack of vision this year?

[justice98]

I don't disagree completely, but that's kinda discounting the myriad of instances of RG3 simply not seeing guys open and going somewhere else with the ball. We hear it all the time from analysts that watch the tape, that he doesn't see the field all that well.

As it pertains to the superman part, I'm just saying I don't think he's trying to make plays that aren't there.

[/quote

So the question becomes, how did RG3 see the field so well last year but seem to be so gun shy and lack of vision this year?

 

The answer might simply be that maybe he didn't see it as well as we thought.  Smoke and mirrors if you will.  All that read option play action and freezing defenders had guys running wide open.  Didn't he have more plays off of play action last year than any QB in the league?  

[justice98]

Conversely, those are spots that had to be filled with the penalty in place which limited us from getting players who would produce.  You have to have a line even if you can't afford good people on it.  With the $36 million, we would have had better players in those spots.

 

Your analysis is incomplete and unfair.

 

I'm not a cap apologist, but reality is reality.

 

But did they need to spend $5mil on a WR that was worth a one year deal, not two?  $2.5 mil on a lazy TE?  $6mil on a 38yr old MLB?  I don't even know if it's better players, but you could get equal players for less if this is the kind of production you're going to get out of them.  And that frees up more money.  

[Riggo-toni]

As far as I'm concerned there are only 3 players on this entire team I'm not willing to part with- Griffin, Morris, and Garcon. (That includes defense.)

Though he struggled against the Eagirls, I would include Trent Williams on the "indisposable" list.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

After cursing out the refs like a baby, Tom Brady used the word "We" almost exclusively throughout his press conference. It was so classless and immature to not put all of the blame on himself for a horribly short throw into the endzone, and he didn't refer to all of his players as "Super-Smart" over and over.

FALL ON THE SWORD, PRETTY BOY.

He wins. So it's all good and a sign of leadership

[Riggo#44]

That was a stupid graphic. How many on that list were draft picks still on the rookie contracts? It would make sense if all those players were free agent signings.

Here are some figures for some of our players signed as FAs:

Fletcher $6.2

Morgan $5.1

Chester $4.3

Moss $4

Bowen $3.4

Montgomery $2.65

F. Davis $2.5

That's 7 players counting $28 million against the cap this season who aren't producing. These players were signed during the cap penalty years.

 

That's some nice revisionist history at best and outright falsehoods otherwise.

 

Bowen was signed in 2011, Chester signed in 2011, Moss signed in 2011, Montgomery signed in February 2012. The cap penalties came in March of 2012.

Fletcher signed a 2 year deal in April of 2012. Were you just going to let him walk after the year he had in 2011? People were begging him to come back this past off season when he was contemplating retirement.

 

Davis got a one year deal last year--was supposed to be a lynch pin of this offense but hasn't earned it. Neither has Morgan. They've been surpassed by other players. Happens all the time. Neither of those contracts are particularly crippling either

[redskins4ever28]

Quick note on the replies about WIlson.

Go look at the Seahawks schedule this year. It was an absolute joke. The only two teams they played that were good were 49ers (at home) and Colts. They played the Panthers on the first game of the season before Carolina got hot (Carolina went 1-3 first 4 games and now has won 6 in a row).

Heres their schedule:

Panthers(won 12-7)

Niners(blowout)

Jaguars(worst team in the league, blowout)

Texans(Texans have only won 2 games yet it took a Matt Schaub pick 6 when the game was pretty much put away for Seattle to win)

Colts(they lost)

Titans(only won by 7)

Cardinals(34-22)

Rams(14-9, Rams had the ball at the 2 with 50 seconds left with a backup QB but decided not to try and run it)

Bucs(barely won again at home against another terrible team, were down the entire game until the Bucs just blew it)

Falcons(2 win team)

Vikings(if our defense doesnt make Christian Ponder look like Montana, this outcome would have been similar)

So thats 3 decent teams all year, and 1 was terrible at the beginning(carolina).

Wilson IS good, Im not hating on him. But he will get figured out, I dont see him make good plays from the pocket, it seems like his plays are when he rolls out and runs around until his fast wrs get open.

[NewCliche21]

But did they need to spend $5mil on a WR that was worth a one year deal, not two?  $2.5 mil on a lazy TE?  $6mil on a 38yr old MLB?  I don't even know if it's better players, but you could get equal players for less if this is the kind of production you're going to get out of them.  And that frees up more money.  

 

Well, as Riggo#44 points out below, you're off about quite a few of them.

 

How do you know that you can get equal production for less?  Isn't that what free agency is all about?  You're not going to be able to sign quality players without offering them quality money, but you still need to field a team regardless.

[justice98]

Well, as Riggo#44 points out below, you're off about quite a few of them.

 

How do you know that you can get equal production for less?  Isn't that what free agency is all about?  You're not going to be able to sign quality players without offering them quality money, but you still need to field a team regardless.

 

Because you can.  Fred Davis and Josh Morgan have 14 catches between them.  London Fletcher's missing tackles left and right. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you can find cheaper players to give you that level of production.  And even if you wanna make the argument that they were better last year, averaging out, it'd be a wash with a cheaper equivalent player.  

 

We're fielding a 3-7 team that's terrible on multiple levels.  Did we spend on quality players?  You can't field a 3-7 team for less money?

[Taylor 36]

Because you can.  Fred Davis and Josh Morgan have 14 catches between them.  London Fletcher's missing tackles left and right. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you can find cheaper players to give you that level of production.  And even if you wanna make the argument that they were better last year, averaging out, it'd be a wash with a cheaper equivalent player.  

 

We're fielding a 3-7 team that's terrible on multiple levels.  Did we spend on quality players?  You can't field a 3-7 team for less money?

No one, and I mean no one, could have forseen Fletcher hitting the wall as quickly and as hard as he did this season.  Anyone who says different is a liar.  He ended the season last year playing great.  He is an unquestionable leader for the defense and the team.  No way you let a guy like that go if you can help it.

 

Davis, he knew the system and was given a one year deal.  Most people would expect him to play lights out in a contract year, but instead, he has chosen to sleep during meetings and make no attempts to out perform a rookie.  This entire situation speaks volumes about his character. 

 

Morgan is a headcase.  If he wanted to go all in, he could be a very good WR.  He also knows the system and has experience with Griffin, something that was desperately needed since Griffin had no offseason to work and prepare with his catchers.  Unfortunately, for one reason or another, he has decided that he doesn't want to go all in.

 

You have the advantage of hindsight and nothing more.

 

Please tell us who you would have picked up in FA this offseason with the same or lesser deals that we gave these players that could have filled their spots.

[RandyHolt]

It is nice for people to start throwing OC names into the why does the QB struggle conversation.

 

It seems like any time a rookie QB fails to meet expectations, it's never the OCs fault. Without ever looking at if a player was used to his strengths.

[RVAbrendan]

Good News...Cigarette Juice!

 

(If anyone knows what I'm talking about you're awesome)

 

 

 

Honestly though, last year really did mask a lot of issues (not only with the o-line). Our offense was clicking last year WITH the same key players - most of us figured this year would follow suit, and THEN some with a healthy Garcon.

 

But, defenses have seemed to adjust to the read-options...and while still successful, is not seeing the results of last year (read: Griffin can not get the ball down-field on a consistent basis).

 

Couple this with Griffin's injury and it's not surprising to see this year's results. No, it's not all RGIIIs fault, but he's not blameless either.

[IrepDC]

I'll add that on NFL AM yesterday, Jeff Garcia described the situation Griffin is in as "He's trying to make chicken soup out of chicken ****."

[justice98]

No one, and I mean no one, could have forseen Fletcher hitting the wall as quickly and as hard as he did this season.  Anyone who says different is a liar.  He ended the season last year playing great.  He is an unquestionable leader for the defense and the team.  No way you let a guy like that go if you can help it.

 

Davis, he knew the system and was given a one year deal.  Most people would expect him to play lights out in a contract year, but instead, he has chosen to sleep during meetings and make no attempts to out perform a rookie.  This entire situation speaks volumes about his character. 

 

Morgan is a headcase.  If he wanted to go all in, he could be a very good WR.  He also knows the system and has experience with Griffin, something that was desperately needed since Griffin had no offseason to work and prepare with his catchers.  Unfortunately, for one reason or another, he has decided that he doesn't want to go all in.

 

You have the advantage of hindsight and nothing more.

 

Please tell us who you would have picked up in FA this offseason with the same or lesser deals that we gave these players that could have filled their spots.

 

Wait a minute, a lot of people saw Fletcher coming.  He was a 36-37 year old LB at the time.  There were discussions on this very board about whether to sign him or not because of that.  And either way, the people in position to make such decisions on players are supposed to have the kind of foresight to see obvious things coming.  An old LB is going to get old quickly, that's not fortune telling, that's common sense.  They knew what kinda player Fred Davis was, they knew how old London Fletcher was and he wasn't getting any younger.  

 

But I'll play along with your little exercise.  Instead of Josh Morgan, Donnie Avery was had by the Colts on a 1 year, 625K deal.  So, for equivlalency's sake, let's make it 2 years, 1.3mil.  Jericho Cotchery signed for 2 years, 1.3mil.  Both of those dudes are just as good as Josh Morgan. 

 

As far as Fred Davis is concerned, literally a tree stump could catch 3 passes this year and be inactive every week.  Put an UDFA in that slot for nothing.

 

I'd have to look at the LBs, but I'm sure there were FAs available for less money that were adequate enough to play on this team.  Maybe not a legit SB contender, but this team, certainly.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

 

The chances of me having an orgy with Scarlet Johansen, Jessica Alba, Megan Fox, Carrie Underwood and Mrs. Tom Brady are greater than Haz coaching the 'Skins next year.

 Been there. Its was surprisingly unfulfilling.

[Riggo#44]

 

 Been there. Its was surprisingly unfulfilling.

 

yeah...I would expect a 30 second fling like that wouldn't be very substantial

Wait a minute, a lot of people saw Fletcher coming.  He was a 36-37 year old LB at the time.  There were discussions on this very board about whether to sign him or not because of that.  And either way, the people in position to make such decisions on players are supposed to have the kind of foresight to see obvious things coming.  An old LB is going to get old quickly, that's not fortune telling, that's common sense.  They knew what kinda player Fred Davis was, they knew how old London Fletcher was and he wasn't getting any younger.  

 

Hindsight is 20-20. At the time, there would have been upheaval if they didn't resign Fletch. Not to mention his back-up and the guy they are grooming for his replacement is on IR. He probably would have taken a fair amount of snaps from Fletch.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

 

yeah...I would expect a 30 second fling like that wouldn't be very substantial

 Which one talked? They promised they wouldn't.

[IrepDC]

I dont think its just their defense.  I thought watching some of the game tonight that the Panthers did a great job up front creating a nice pocket for Cam.  Look at what the Broncos OL did to Chiefs etc...

Also, when the Panthers OL got beat, they still kept blocking so when Newton started moving around, they were still on their man. Our OL has a bad habit of getting beat, turning around, and watching Griffin get blasted.

Funny, NFL.com specifically states "Brady, after giving Blakeman an earful in the tunnel immediately after the game, largely blamed his bad throw for the incompletion when he spoke to the media." I haven't seen the actual video but are you sure you're not exaggerating to make a point?

This is true. I watched the press conference. As bad as Brady's initial reaction was running down the official yelling in his ear, he did take the blame during the press conference. His words were "It should have been a better throw. I should have made a better throw." I have to give him credit for that.

[Bang]

It all starts up front.

If RG3 has a cleaner pocket, he may make better throws.

He made some awful throws the other day and you know what it reminded me of?

Patrick Ramsey. Happy feet, indecisive, not necessarily as to which receiver to watch, but whether to watch a receiver or the linemen who are piling up in his lap.

Tyler Palumbus is a joke. Terrible footwork, terrible handwork, no ass whatsoever, gets beat on speed rushes, bull rushes, inside rushes, outside rushes, doesn't matter. He fails consistently. Balls are batted up constantly, balls are swatted constantly because they are in Robert's FACE from tghe right side or up the middle. (Sonny says Robert's only seeing half the field. Probably true. The right half is obscured by pass rushers overwhelming his right tackle on a play by play basis.)

Not even the run game can back anyone off.

Know why? Because it's 24-0, and we're running the ball. Doesn't make any difference, they're happy to let us run all damn day between the 20s. When we have to throw, Palumbus or Montgomery will politely usher the defense right into Robert's grill.

 

And why is it 24-0, 31-0, 24-3, or whatever horrendous blowout the first halves have been?

 

because the opposing quarterback enjoys all the time that Robert doesn't get.  Our defensive line is absolutely appalling in it's downright failure as a unit to pressure the quarterback. Using Nick Foles as an example, his pockets were CLEAR, uncluttered, free of any debris.

i know we got to him a few times, but it didn't make any difference. When it mattered, when we had chances to make stops in the first half on third and mid to long, he had time, and every QB has time. Wide open throwing lanes, No one in his face. Perennial clubfoots like Philip Rivers dance like Baryshnikov between our pass rushers when they do manage to get pressure time and again..

Gorks like Foles make us look SILLY running read options in slow motion, because everyone is backing up trying to make sure no one gets by them.. because they can't count on pass rush. 
Mind you .. we DO this while they are nursing a lead. WTF?

Orakpo seems to think that he can get to the QB by running upfield 20 yards and circling back. the LT is more than happy to help him. It's an EASY DAY facing him. AND, it's getting to be an easy day facing Kerrigan too.

There is absolutely no excuse for this.. in all honesty, this unit is why our defense is so bad, and this unit is a HUGE part as to why the team looks so inept. 

Because they get no pressure, there is no HOPE of covering. Not with the experience level and general health of our secondary and the rules geared towards no one being allowed to breathe on receivers. Not with the age in our linebacking corps. 

To be competitive these days on defense, the MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU MUST DO is pressure the quarterback. If you don't, you're straight up dead meat.

The secondary, the linebackers, these units can hide under the umbrella of the Cap Hit excuse, but not the DL. 2 first round picks, supposed pass rushing studs.. 2 starting free agents when we have barely been able to afford any, a 2nd round pick, veteran players, young up and coming players. They have NO excuse like a cap hit or lack of talent. NONE.

If the DL could pressure, the rest of the defense would look a million times better, GUARANTEED.

 

we are CONSTANTLY playing catch-up. Which means for the opposing defense.. hey you want to keep running the ball while we're up 3 scores? OK. No problem. We'll just crash the line the rest of the day. If you pass, we'll get to the QB. We'll smack the ball up in the air,,  something. We are confident your right tackle and center will give us what we need. 

 

Or in other words: "It seemed like they knew our plays or something..."

 

They don't know our plays. They don't CARE about our plays.

They're protecting a 3 score lead, as are most teams who play us.

That makes defense EASY.

 

So there you go. It's the defensive line's fault, with a hearty assist from Tyler Pabumble and Will Stunkgomery.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

 

~Bang

[justice98]

I'll add that on NFL AM yesterday, Jeff Garcia described the situation Griffin is in as "He's trying to make chicken soup out of chicken ****."

 

One thing about NFL analysts, unless they're doing games or hanging out at NFL Films like Jaworski and Hoge do, they don't watch nearly as much tape as people think they do.  I would argue some people on this board are more well versed in what ails RG3 than Jeff Garcia.  And that's saying nothing of his football acumen, I'm sure he knows the game, I just doubt he puts the time in studying any one player extensively.  He's got the whole league to worry about.

[Chachie]

You're willing to part with Trent Williams, David Amerson and Ryan Kerrigan?

 

 

I forgot Trent. Kerrigan is not getting pressure like he was but yes, he's a keeper too.

 

Amerson deserves time to show more but he has not earned his keep altogether IMO.