Most overrated/underrated Redskins of all time

[xxprodigyxx]

Most, if not all, of my examples are in the top 80 redskins list, my assessment is based upon how I feel the fanbase underrates or overrates a player.

 

Underrated:

• Earnes Byner
• Cris Dishman (Was here only a couple years but he was one of my favorite free agent acquisitions)
• Henry Ellard 
• Joe Jacoby
• Wilber Marshall (Not remembered enough.  One of my favorite players of all time.)

 

Overrated:

• Adam Carriker (Been solid for us but I feel like, the way we talk about him, we elevate him to borderline pro-bowl level player)
• Doug Williams
• Joe Theismann
• LaVar Arrington
• Russ Grimm (I only say this because he's in the Hall of Fame and Joe Jacoby isn't and I thought he was the best lineman we had)

[Tress Is The Way]

Over-rated:

God help me, but Moss is over-rated. I love the guy. Love his heart and his willingness to do whatever it takes to help the team, but he should never have been treated as a top WR for years like he was. He couldn't stay healthy enougj and wasn't consistant enough. We see now how effective he could have been as a second or third option, and that's what he should have been here his entire career.

Chris Cooley. Again, I love the guy, but the adoration he received for being an above average TE for a few years is I think unprecedented in this town. He's easily the most over-rated Redskin of his generation.

The 82 Hogs. I see it even in this thread when people say Theismann and Riggins had this awesome line in front of them. The Hogs in 82 were a bunch of VERY young players who hadn't developed their chemistry yet. They were not a dominant unit in 82 like they would some day become. We won that superbowl because of a fantastic defense, Riggins, and to a (much) lesser extent, Theismann's ability to extend plays with his mobility.

Under-rated:

Whoever said Don Warren is right on. Everyone mentions the linemen when they talk about our awesome like play in the 80s but rarely mention him. He deserves better.

Charles Mann. Everyone talks about Manley, but Mann was the anchor. Manley had a couple truly exceptional seasons, whereas Mann had a career. More pro-bowls. More superbowls ... if I had to take one on my team I'd take Mann.

I like the Art Monk mention, though now that he's in the Hall of Fame its tough to call him under-rated.

 

Uh are you serious? Moss is overrated because he couldn't stay healthy? Have you watched him over the 8 years that he was here?  In the eight years that he has been a redskin 5 out of those 8 he played the full 16 games and started the full 16 games. Hell there was only 1 year in his 8 year tenure that he played and started less then 14 games! For his entire career he is averaging 14.3 yards per reception..and he's overrated? I beg to differ. 

 

Overrated players should go to the likes of Lavar, Landry, Clos, Trotter, McNugget, etc.

[CrypticVillain]

Thanks for posting that video DC, one more I'll add to the underrated list: Marcus Washington. I loved watching him play and his energy was contagious. He was another guy that always brought it and more often than not turned in a big play at an important time, and his talent was wasted on teams that could have and should have been much better.

Marcus Washington was my man. Loved when he hit that Ric Flair dance after a big play. I was so blown when he never recovered from his injuries...

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Over: Cooley, Lorenzo, Lavar, Landry, Doug Williams

 

Under: Fletcher, Green, Fred Davis, Monk, Ken Harvey

 

If I'm going off how my Dad remembers players I'd answer as:

 

Over: Everyone from 1991 and back

 

Under: Everyone from 1992 to present

Most, if not all, of my examples are in the top 80 redskins list, my assessment is based upon how I feel the fanbase underrates or overrates a player.

 

Underrated:

• Earnes Byner
• Cris Dishman (Was here only a couple years but he was one of my favorite free agent acquisitions)
• Henry Ellard 
• Joe Jacoby

 

Good list, I almost put Henry Ellard. In my formative years of watching the Redskins I remember specifically Ellard constantly catching 3rd down after 3rd down when we needed a play. He was money. 

I'd say Terry Allen was pretty underrated for us too. The man had a couple knees held together with scotch tape and hope but he always ran hard and had several good seasons for us. He was dependable. 

[greenspandan]

terry allen is a great pull.  dude really got it done during some extremely lean years.

[dcdiscokid]

Overrated: Theismann, Arrington, Cooley, Landry, F Davis

 

Underrated: S Davis, Harvey, Fletcher, Monk, Moss

[CTskins]

Underrated:  Joe Jacoby, Gary Clark, Brian Mitchell, Stephen Davis, Jon Jansen, London Fletcher

 

Overrated: Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook, Andre Johnson, Lavar Arrington, Laron Landy, Albert Haynesworth 

To be overrated a player has first of all to be 'rated". I think you will go a long way to find a Redskin fan who in anyway rates Heath Shuler or Andre Johnson (who were big draft busts) or has a good word in any way to say for Haynesworth.

Johnson was overrated because he was a draft bust. First round Tackles need to be heavy contributors on the line, at least. I don't remember him being active at all that year. Then he was released a year later.

[End2round2sanders]

Most, if not all, of my examples are in the top 80 redskins list, my assessment is based upon how I feel the fanbase underrates or overrates a player.

 

Underrated:

• Earnes Byner
• Cris Dishman (Was here only a couple years but he was one of my favorite free agent acquisitions)
• Henry Ellard 
• Joe Jacoby
• Wilber Marshall (Not remembered enough.  One of my favorite players of all time.)

 

Overrated:

• Adam Carriker (Been solid for us but I feel like, the way we talk about him, we elevate him to borderline pro-bowl level player)
• Doug Williams
• Joe Theismann
• LaVar Arrington
• Russ Grimm (I only say this because he's in the Hall of Fame and Joe Jacoby isn't and I thought he was the best lineman we had)

 

 

Agree with alot of the underrated, I'd put any of the Hogs on this list. Ellard I agree with 10 fold.  Dishman I'd take out cause out pass D wasn't great when he had him.

 

I'd also add to the underrated list:

 

- Henry Ellard - Loved him

- Brad Edwards-for a couple of seasons he put up pro bowl numbers and make a ton of key hits

- Larry Centers-Huge fan of his

- Bruce Smith-yea we didn't win when he signed but don't tell me he didn't produce for us, especially at his age and his position which never has players play at his age.

- Larry Brown - did everything for us back in the day

- Ken Harvey- Amazing Linebacker on bad defenses

- Charley Taylor - Only cause he played in a different era not a ton of us remember him

- Chris Hanburger, Jack Pardee, - part of good defenses in the '70s

- Ken Houston - 12 Pro bowls nuff said. Again played in the '70s though

- Terry Allen - Broke Riggins single season TD total in '95 right? Norv got everything out of a guy coming off of two knee surgeries.

 

 

Overrated:

 

- Gus Frerotte - Never led us to playoffs, we only loved him because we hated Heath Shuler so much.

- Brad Johnson - one hit wonder

- Randy Thomas - signed huge contract, was on OK lineman

- Stan Humphries - When Jeff Rutledge would put up great numbers when he came in games Stan was expendable, he did well in SD though.

[MartinC]

Underrated: Joe Jacoby, Gary Clark, Brian Mitchell, Stephen Davis, Jon Jansen, London Fletcher

Overrated: Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook, Andre Johnson, Lavar Arrington, Laron Landy, Albert Haynesworth

To be overrated a player has first of all to be 'rated". I think you will go a long way to find a Redskin fan who in anyway rates Heath Shuler or Andre Johnson (who were big draft busts) or has a good word in any way to say for Haynesworth.

Johnson was overrated because he was a draft bust. First round Tackles need to be heavy contributors on the line, at least. I don't remember him being active at all that year. Then he was released a year later.

I don't want to be pedantic but to be overrated you first have to be rated - and we are talking about fans rating of players in this thread not scouts getting ratings wrong pre draft. If you are a draft bust - and a first round OT who never plays a down of regular season football qualifies as a HUGE bust - then by definition you were never rated by fans in the first place. If you want to do a thread on players who just plain sucked or players the scouts missed on Johnson would be a great contender for that list.

[Henry]

Over-rated:

God help me, but Moss is over-rated. I love the guy. Love his heart and his willingness to do whatever it takes to help the team, but he should never have been treated as a top WR for years like he was. He couldn't stay healthy enougj and wasn't consistant enough. We see now how effective he could have been as a second or third option, and that's what he should have been here his entire career.

Chris Cooley. Again, I love the guy, but the adoration he received for being an above average TE for a few years is I think unprecedented in this town. He's easily the most over-rated Redskin of his generation.

The 82 Hogs. I see it even in this thread when people say Theismann and Riggins had this awesome line in front of them. The Hogs in 82 were a bunch of VERY young players who hadn't developed their chemistry yet. They were not a dominant unit in 82 like they would some day become. We won that superbowl because of a fantastic defense, Riggins, and to a (much) lesser extent, Theismann's ability to extend plays with his mobility.

Under-rated:

Whoever said Don Warren is right on. Everyone mentions the linemen when they talk about our awesome like play in the 80s but rarely mention him. He deserves better.

Charles Mann. Everyone talks about Manley, but Mann was the anchor. Manley had a couple truly exceptional seasons, whereas Mann had a career. More pro-bowls. More superbowls ... if I had to take one on my team I'd take Mann.

I like the Art Monk mention, though now that he's in the Hall of Fame its tough to call him under-rated.

 

Uh are you serious? Moss is overrated because he couldn't stay healthy? Have you watched him over the 8 years that he was here?  In the eight years that he has been a redskin 5 out of those 8 he played the full 16 games and started the full 16 games. Hell there was only 1 year in his 8 year tenure that he played and started less then 14 games! For his entire career he is averaging 14.3 yards per reception..and he's overrated? I beg to differ. 

 

Overrated players should go to the likes of Lavar, Landry, Clos, Trotter, McNugget, etc.

 

Moss was one of those guys who if he wasn't fully healthy wasn't nearly as effective.  

 

Moss started 14 games in 06 and 07 but battled hammy, groin and foot injuries, which slowed him down and was the main reason his production dropped and he only averaged 800 yards a season over that span.

 

In 2008 he left the Detroit game with a hamstring injury and, after putting up three 100-yard games and averaging 82.2 yards in our first 8 weeks, never broke 72 yards the rest of the season while we went 2-6 during that stretch.

 

Moss's inconsistent play wasn't due to our terrible QBs as many here contend. It was that Moss couldn't rely on his speed and just wasn't that great when he got injured, which was a lot of the time.  I didn't say he couldn't stay healthy. I said he couldn't stay healthy ENOUGH. 

[Henry]

I don't want to be pedantic but to be overrated you first have to be rated. If you are a draft bust - and a first round OT who never plays a down of regular season football qualifies as a HUGE bust - then by definition you were never rated in the first place. If you want to do a thread on players who just plain sucked Johnson would be a great contender for that list.

 

This is exactly right. The reason I even said Moss in the first place is because he is so highly valued. Guys like Arrington or Landry or McNabb ... nobody looks back at those guys and thinks they were any good. They aren't overrated because nobody rates them highly. They're just guys that weren't very good that people think ... weren't very good.

 

Moss many people consider one of The Great Redskins. I'm not sure I'd rate him that highly. Doesn't mean I don't like the guy, or that he wasn't good. Just that I think he was overrated.

[CTskins]

I don't want to be pedantic but to be overrated you first have to be rated. If you are a draft bust - and a first round OT who never plays a down of regular season football qualifies as a HUGE bust - then by definition you were never rated in the first place. If you want to do a thread on players who just plain sucked Johnson would be a great contender for that list.

 

It doesn't much matter to me, but technically a rating is in comparison to expectations. In order to be a 1st round draft bust, a player must have had to be rated prior to the draft as one of the top 32 college players in the nation, best suited to help immediately. That is why no one talks about 4th or 5th round "busts."

 

Shuler was drafted 3rd overall and started 18 games as a Redskin in his first 2 years as a 'Skin. He was expected to be the savior and lost his job to Gus Frerotte. Shuler got exactly what he needed: A change of scenery. Unfortunately he hurt his foot and was out of the game. At best he gets an incomplete.

 

At the end of the day it all opinion, but make no mistake, these two players were overrated.

[MartinC]

I don't want to be pedantic but to be overrated you first have to be rated. If you are a draft bust - and a first round OT who never plays a down of regular season football qualifies as a HUGE bust - then by definition you were never rated in the first place. If you want to do a thread on players who just plain sucked Johnson would be a great contender for that list.

It doesn't much matter to me, but technically a rating is in comparison to expectations. In order to be a 1st round draft bust, a player must have had to be rated prior to the draft as one of the top 32 college players in the nation, best suited to help immediately. That is why no one talks about 4th or 5th round "busts."

Shuler was drafted 3rd overall and started 18 games as a Redskin in his first 2 years as a 'Skin. He was expected to be the savior and lost his job to Gus Frerotte. Shuler got exactly what he needed: A change of scenery. Unfortunately he hurt his foot and was out of the game. At best he gets an incomplete.

At the end of the day it all opinion, but make no mistake, these two players were overrated.

Overrated by scouts and coaches maybe - but here we are talking about players being overrated/underrated for their performance as a Redskin. Nobody overrates Andre Johnson as a Redskin simply because no one rates him in the first place since he contributed literally nothing as a Redskin.

Same applies to Heath Shuler - he was a big disappointment, heck a huge disappointment so again no one rates him as a player here. You can certainly say the scouts overrated him before he was drafted but that's not what this thread is about.

[Henry]

I don't want to be pedantic but to be overrated you first have to be rated. If you are a draft bust - and a first round OT who never plays a down of regular season football qualifies as a HUGE bust - then by definition you were never rated in the first place. If you want to do a thread on players who just plain sucked Johnson would be a great contender for that list.

 

It doesn't much matter to me, but technically a rating is in comparison to expectations. In order to be a 1st round draft bust, a player must have had to be rated prior to the draft as one of the top 32 college players in the nation, best suited to help immediately. That is why no one talks about 4th or 5th round "busts."

 

Shuler was drafted 3rd overall and started 18 games as a Redskin in his first 2 years as a 'Skin. He was expected to be the savior and lost his job to Gus Frerotte. Shuler got exactly what he needed: A change of scenery. Unfortunately he hurt his foot and was out of the game. At best he gets an incomplete.

 

At the end of the day it all opinion, but make no mistake, these two players were overrated.

 

I would list Shuler and Johnson in a thread entitled 'who are the biggest busts?'

 

Then we could also include guys like McNabb and Trotter and ... well several entire rosters from 2000-2008.

 

I think over- and underrated mean something else: What did you think a player's value was compared to what the rest of the world thought.

 

Maybe differing definitions is one of the reasons why some of the debates in this thread are raging so strongly.

[CTskins]

You have said the same thing three times and I understand your point, however, I respectfully disagree.

 

As Henry said, perhaps its a difference in definition, but I expect 1st rounders to contribute at least marginally their first year and moreso thereafter. If a 300+ lb. tackle from a traditional power running program like Penn St. isn't the savior of the offensive line, he should at least be in the rotation.

 

Either way, it's all good...

[leevi98]

 

Overrated - Joe Theismann

 

Why do you say Theismann was overrated?

he was an average quarterback.  he gets extra fame points for the confluence of a lot of stuff that wasn't really his (onfield) doing:

1.  standing behind the GREATEST offensive line in the history of football.

2.  working under one of the greatest coaches of all time

3.  riggins, monk, green, charlie brown, and all the other extraordinary talent around him even aside from gibbs and the hogs

4.  the way he finished -- that gory leg break on monday night -- made people see him in a much more sympathetic light.

5. his flamboyant personality.  i hate it, but that always goes a long way towards building a legacy in the nfl, unfortunately.

 

theismann's golden years (82 and 83) were pretty much the same, numbers-wise, as ryp's 91 season, and yet theismann is thought of  as this wonderful redskins legend, and ryp was a just a journeyman lucky enough to stand behind behind the hogs and gibbs.  i think the disparity in perception is mostly due to their respective personalities, sadly.

I completely disagree. If anything JT was underated. He played and an era of some great Qb talent. He also was a great leader on the field and tough as nails with a great arm and could throw on the run with the best of them and he would be the first one to tell you how good the o line was. Adding...saying some of the reasons you gave about why he is overated is like saying Joe Montana was overated cause he played for one of the greatest coaches of alltime and was surrounded by incredible line and talents such as Jerry rice and roger Craig. Or bradshaw was overrated or ANY SB winning Qb in history. You get the picture

[MartinC]

You have said the same thing three times and I understand your point, however, I respectfully disagree.

 

As Henry said, perhaps its a difference in definition, but I expect 1st rounders to contribute at least marginally their first year and moreso thereafter. If a 300+ lb. tackle from a traditional power running program like Penn St. isn't the savior of the offensive line, he should at least be in the rotation.

 

Either way, it's all good...

It is all good!

[Warhead36]

Overrated: Chris Cooley

 

Underrated: Chris Samuels

[amm0409]

How about Cliff Battles for Underrated, great player but left after first NFL Championship in 37, maybe Skins could of ended up with more had he stayed:)

[skins island connection]

 Just to clarify a little, back in 82', " th' Hogs" were the biggest o-line in football, not

necessarily the most talented, but they utilized their size to their advantage, unlike some

other latter linemen on different teams who should have stopped after 8 chicken fried

steaks at suppertime.

Also, by the time 91' got here, the Skins o-line was something around the 4th lightest line in football,

which further exemplifies teamwork and skill over size, cudos to Bugel and the other coaches.

 

I'd find it extremely difficult to 'overrate' ANY o-lineman after visualizing the transitions they went through,

with 3 different QBs, RBs, and TE formations...

[DC9]

Oh man... how good was Marcus Washington when he was here?  Nice call, Hitman.

[bedlamVR]

I just wanted to pick up a couple of things in the OP - I know there are other threads about this but I don't get why people think Orakpo is over rated given how the defense kind of fell off a cliff with him out the line up last year, but he averages just over 9 sacks per season in a versatile OLB role ...

 

However playing in the interchangeable role on the other side Kerrigan is under rated ..? yet he tends to go up against the secondary pass blocking players and yet has never had the production or the impact of Orakpo - AND yet he gets a pass from the fans because he was not a top 13 pick - he was however a taken 3 picks later 2 years later - but those three picks difference seem to make all the difference ... Remember Orakpo was making an impact when we had Daniels and Wynn starting on the defense ... he was and really still is the pass rush - the only thing that makes him over rated is people always push for you to be at the top but once you get there they always want to knock you down ..

 

Moving onto Cooley - the hate this guy get is amazing - He has always been a fan favorite and for some reason that makes him a target for all kinds of **** to be said about him, not just on the field but off it too ... But for those who say he is over rated ... seriously what were people expecting of a no.81 overall pick, a guy most people had never heard of and a guy most teams had going as undrafted ... what were people expecting ?

 

We they expecting a 2 time pro bowler - a guy who would go on to set an NFL record as the only TE in history (a history including Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, Jason Witten, Todd Heap, Jay Novak , Dallas Clark, Shannon Sharp etc etc) to have 6 or more TDs in the first 4 years of his career ... he is 1st amongst Redskin TEs in receptions, 5th amongst all Redskins ever, and he was in the top 20 in all time TEs in the NFL ..

 

And all this when playing on teams where he was catching passes from QBs featuring in order, Patrick Ramsey, Mark Brunell, Jason Campbell, Todd Collins, Jason  Campbell again, Donovon McNabb, Rex Grossman, Jon Beck an with WRs including Sanatana Moss ... and well thats about it ... there was Coles for a season but he was here insted of Moss, but the other guys sucked ...

 

Was this guy from Utah supposed to be this good ? Is this what we expect from 3rd round picks ? Over rated suggests a player who under achieved - well if Cooley underachieved then please give me a roster of underachievers ... sheeesh tough crowd ..

 

When i think over rated, i would go with LaVar, Rocky McIntosh, Larron Landry Dan Wilkinson, Mike Sellars the running back  (loved him but he never seemed to be that force in the running game and he over rated himself leaving for a massive contract with the Browns, (i think) and getting into nothing but trouble) Antonio Pierce - lucked out being in the right place at the right time for a single season and wanted to be paid more than Marcus Washington - he also went on to be seemingly constantly injured and constantly running his mouth with the giants ..Oh yeah and why not lets throw in a TE - how about Stephen Alexander ?

 

Under rated - Chis Samuels it can be argued that he was on that Orlando Pace/Johnathan Ogden level but never played on the teams that got him that name recognition, Micheal Westbrook - Yes he was a punk and no he never got his head right but he was an impressive WR ... who knows what he could have been with the right coach/mentor, Larry Centers, Mike Sellars the ST ace and while we are on the ST players I have to mention Ade Jimoah - terrible DB, great ST coverage player ....

 

going further back I would have to say Gary Clark - never seems to get the recognition and the LBs we had in the late 80s and early 90s as a group  .

[Henry]

Overrated, to me, does not mean underacheiver or failure to live up to draft position. By either of those measures Cooley is not overrated

However, if we are talking perception vs reality then I do think Cooley is a prime candidate. He was loved here like Antonio Gates and, as fine a player as he was, he was no Gates. Six TDS in his first four years or not.

[Rufus T Firefly]

How can Doug be consisdered overrated?????  What he did in the superbowl was all he needed to do to never be considered to overrated IMO

To me 'rating' someone based on a single game (however important the game and however great the performance) is the absolute definition of overrated.

This is all personal opinion though so I can totally see why others may feel differently.

Absotively.

 

BTW, how about Shawn Springs for underrated? He could never stay healthy, but when he was, he might have been the best pure cover guy of the decade.

[Darth Tater]

Overrated - Joe Theismann

 

Why do you say Theismann was overrated?

Yep,that is interesting because Theismann is one of the most underrated guys.