Most overrated/underrated Redskins of all time

[Riggo-toni]

Underrated - Bobby Beathard! This guy helped put together the rosters for the Dolphins 72 team, was a scout for the KC SB teams, puts together the players for all of our SB teams (yes, he was gone in 91, but it was still the core of players he acquired, just as Barry Switzer owes it all to Jimmy Johnson). After he leaves, he takes the Chargers to their only SB. Beathard was as responsible if not more for our glory years than Gibbs (who was a poor personnel guy).

Overrated - the obvious choice is Lavar Arrington. I nearly abandoned this board completely during Gibbs tenure because of all the whiney 15 year olds starting threads about "how can Gibbs do this to the greatest Skins LB ever...." The guy had a solid 2nd half of a season in '01, and good sack numbers in '02, and that was it. Yes, he ended Aikman's career, but he lost more games than he won on blown assignments.

[DC9]

Overrated - Timmy Smith, Jason Campbell, Chris Cooley, Lavar Arrington, Lorenzo Alexander

 

Underrated - Mike Nelms, Alvin Walton, Monte Coleman, Chris Samuel, Clinton Portis (yes, I realize Coleman and Samuel are HIGHLY regarded, but they were THAT good)... Rob Jackson... ? 

[DC9]

Underrated:

• Mike Sellers - The guy brought it every game, and he was around for two stints with the Skins (1998-2000 and 2004-2011). Loved seeing him run over people.
• Ryan Kerrigan - What can you say about him? Two pick sixes in two years, improved on his rookie year sack total, without a rushing threat opposite him. Still don't think he gets the credit he deserves.

 

 

First, great thread topic, brother.  You always come through when business is slow! lol

 

I forget who it was, I want to say it was Mayock who joked: "People always asked who who the most underrated player in the NFL is and I always say 'Peyton Manning'... they always look at me and laugh and I say, 'No, he's THAT good' and you can see that with them missing one player and now having the #1 overall pick in the draft."  And I agree.  I say that to you because I mentioned in my earlier post about Monte Coleman and Chris Samuels being that good and I agree with you on Art Monk as well.  Monk is good one because he wasn't flashy, but he was consistent, reliable, and an absolute go to guy in a pinch.

 

But I'll bite on Mike Sellers... who I always thought was over rated.  To me he'd have one or two good plays a year wear he'd bowl someone over and because he was one of the onlyt "true" fullbacks in the NFL he made the Pro Bowl once or twice.  Couple that with the bad years of this franchise that he played in and you have a made-for-tv legend/hero in his own comic book, lol.  I never liked him and I remember him getting stuffed on the goalline against the Bengals in Zorn's first year that totally took the air out of the balloon.

 

And for Ryan Kerrigan, I agree with everything you said.  I'd add he has a motor that doesn't quit and to my knowledge still hasn't missed a snap on defense.  That's impressive.

[CrypticVillain]

Over-rated:

God help me, but Moss is over-rated. I love the guy. Love his heart and his willingness to do whatever it takes to help the team, but he should never have been treated as a top WR for years like he was. He couldn't stay healthy enougj and wasn't consistant enough. We see now how effective he could have been as a second or third option, and that's what he should have been here his entire career.

 

From 05 to 2010(I used those years because that's when ht was considered the number 1 WR)

 

He averaged 73.6 rec and 1,023.6 per year. And that is with QB's like Brunell, Ramsey, Campbell, Collins, McNabb, and Grossman. With those sorry QB's he still averaged over 70 catches and a 1,000 yards per year.

[greenspandan]

yeah I agree with moss being very underrated.  without looking it up, he's gotta be about the third best wide receiver in redskins history stats-wise, and he's simply done SO MUCH.  had so many game-winning moments, big games, etc.  and through all the utter crap the team has been through, kept his mouth pretty much shut, too.

 

what, would you have rather had laverenues coles??

 

how bout this:

 

overrated:  mark mosely

underrated:  chip lohmilller

[DC9]

Moss is the exact opposite of over rated for me.  More like, under rated/used wrong.  He could've been much much better if he had any kind of help at all on the other side of the field or with an actual quarterback.

 

I've said in other threads, if there is one player who deserves to stay on past his prime for a run at a ring it's Santana Moss.

[rick1796]

overrated:

S. Taylor, sorry to ruffle feathers but people talk as though he was a lock hall of famer and the best they had ever seen. He wasn't even the best safety in the league. He might have gotten there, but he hadn't yet (RIP suckiest day of being a Redskins fan)

Lavar, it's been said to death, but it's all true.

D. Williams, had a great few games, and really that's it. Deserves his place in history, but folks forget how otherwise mediocre he was.

 

Underrated:

K. Harvey, how people can forget about this guy amazes me.

L. Centers, since i am already talkng about former cardinals who came here to shine. . .

J. Lachey, people think hog they always mention Jacoby (not wrong) but where's the love for the LT?

[greenspandan]

overrated:

D. Williams, had a great few games, and really that's it. Deserves his place in history, but folks forget how otherwise mediocre he was.

 

well, he was old by the time he got here, but he was actually a pretty good QB for TB for many years.  their team was horrendous, though.  it's a real shame he didn't play for a better or more popular team during his athletic peak years, he would have been a star.

[DM72]

Overrated: Cooley, Arrington

Underrated: Mann, Monk

[Henry]

Over-rated:

God help me, but Moss is over-rated. I love the guy. Love his heart and his willingness to do whatever it takes to help the team, but he should never have been treated as a top WR for years like he was. He couldn't stay healthy enougj and wasn't consistant enough. We see now how effective he could have been as a second or third option, and that's what he should have been here his entire career.

 

From 05 to 2010(I used those years because that's when ht was considered the number 1 WR)

 

He averaged 73.6 rec and 1,023.6 per year. And that is with QB's like Brunell, Ramsey, Campbell, Collins, McNabb, and Grossman. With those sorry QB's he still averaged over 70 catches and a 1,000 yards per year.

 

Those stats are a little misleading. In '05 he had 1483 receiving yards and 9 TDs, which bumps your average up considerably. that was a spectacular year and he deserves praise for it. But in truth, he only broke 1000 yards twice over that five-year span, only had more than 6 TDs once ... in '05 ... Like I said, inconsistant as a go-to WR. A true #1 WR, like Larry Fitzgerald, Derrick Mason or Brandon Marshall, can put up numbers no matter who is throwing the ball. 

 

Moss is a second-tier WR. He always has been. And that's fine. But he's talked about as one of the greatest Redskin WRs to ever play the game and I think that's over-rating him.

 

Moss is the exact opposite of over rated for me.  More like, under rated/used wrong.  He could've been much much better if he had any kind of help at all on the other side of the field or with an actual quarterback.

 

I've said in other threads, if there is one player who deserves to stay on past his prime for a run at a ring it's Santana Moss.

 

I agree that Moss was used incorrectly for years. He needed a possession WR opposite him so that he could concentrate on playmaking, like he did this year. He never got that when he was in his prime and that sucks. 

 

But he was never a top-calibre WR. He shouldn't have ever been the centerpiece of our passing game.

 

And seeing people here comparing his stats to those of players like Charlie Taylor of Bobby Mitchell, as if they are in any way comparable, simply reinforces my point.

[DC9]

I agree that Moss was used incorrectly for years. He needed a possession WR opposite him so that he could concentrate on playmaking, like he did this year. He never got that when he was in his prime and that sucks. 

 

 

 

But he was never a top-calibre WR. He shouldn't have ever been the centerpiece of our passing game.

 

 

 

And seeing people here comparing his stats to those of players like Charlie Taylor of Bobby Mitchell, as if they are in any way comparable, simply reinforces my point.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't down the stats or who is comparable to in terms of those stats within the history of this franchise.  If he is top 5 within the organization, he's top 5.  I would just say that you disagree with the impact he has on the game that guys like Charlie Taylor or (especially) Bobby Mitchell had on the team and for the team because it was a different game back then. 

 

But who was the target when we needed a big play through the air?  Tana.  Who went back and returned that punt when we needed him to?  Tana.  Who did the defense KNOW was going to get the ball or go back there because there was no one else?  Tana.  And he was still able to deliver as the stats show.

 

You could say what you want about Cooley being a threat, but I've not seen a player in any sport (save for maybe David Beckham) get more of a career out of one great game than Chris Cooley did.  He also benefitted from running shallow routes where Campbell loved to throw. 

 

So at the end of the day, you stop Portis and you stop Moss and score 20 points, more than likely you were beating those Redskins teams. 

 

I'm not saying he was ever the best receiver in the game or even one of the best.  Could he have been?  Maybe.  But the fact that you de-value him (even a little, I know you are just arguing semantics at this point) goes to everyone elses point.

[greenspandan]

You could say what you want about Cooley being a threat, but I've not seen a player in any sport (save for maybe David Beckham) get more of a career out of one great game than Chris Cooley did.  He also benefitted from running shallow routes where Campbell loved to throw. 

 

one great game?  he's 5th on the redskins all-time receptions list behind monk, charley taylor, gary clark, and santana moss.  that's pretty impressive for a TE!  he led the team in receptions several times.

[CrypticVillain]

Moss is a second-tier WR. He always has been. And that's fine. But he's talked about as one of the greatest Redskin WRs to ever play the game and I think that's over-rating him.

Art Monk, Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell.

 

Who else are we going to put ahead of Moss?

 

I think at worst he is top 5 in Redskins History. Like I said, he was hurt by mediocre QB play.

 

Just based on his performances against the Cowboys I wouldn't say Moss is overrated.

[greenspandan]

Moss is a second-tier WR. He always has been. And that's fine. But he's talked about as one of the greatest Redskin WRs to ever play the game and I think that's over-rating him.

Art Monk, Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell.

 

Who else are we going to put ahead of Moss?

 

I think at worst he is top 5 in Redskins History. Like I said, he was hurt by mediocre QB play.

 

Just based on his performances against the Cowboys I wouldn't say Moss is overrated.

 

gary clark, but that's it.  that's the list. 

[CrypticVillain]

 

Moss is a second-tier WR. He always has been. And that's fine. But he's talked about as one of the greatest Redskin WRs to ever play the game and I think that's over-rating him.

Art Monk, Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell.

 

Who else are we going to put ahead of Moss?

 

I think at worst he is top 5 in Redskins History. Like I said, he was hurt by mediocre QB play.

 

Just based on his performances against the Cowboys I wouldn't say Moss is overrated.

 

gary clark, but that's it.  that's the list. 

I thought I put clark behind mitchell. That's why I said 5 at worst lol

[DC9]

You could say what you want about Cooley being a threat, but I've not seen a player in any sport (save for maybe David Beckham) get more of a career out of one great game than Chris Cooley did.  He also benefitted from running shallow routes where Campbell loved to throw. 

 

one great game?  he's 5th on the redskins all-time receptions list behind monk, charley taylor, gary clark, and santana moss.  that's pretty impressive for a TE!  he led the team in receptions several times.

 

If you read the last sentence in the post I made that you quoted... it'll hit you.  But he did have a great game vs Dallas in 2005.

[emor09]

I've only been following since 2004, but here I go...

 

Underrated: Reed Doughty- Smartest player on the field, great tackler. His instincts make up for what he lacks in athleticism/talent

 

Overrated: Brian Orakpo- I love him, I have his jersey. But he isn't as great as he's made out to be. He's awful at containing his end in run support or with a mobile QB. He counts on the officials too much to call holds. He sells the hold instead of trying to fight through it. He has a limited set of moves and gets big numbers against bad teams (see Oakland).  

 

I'm not saying Orakpo isn't a talented player, but he's nowhere near the top of the league as an OLB

[GO HAMSKINS]

How can Doug be consisdered overrated?????  What he did in the superbowl was all he needed to do to never be considered to overrated IMO

[Henry]

First of all, let me say that I really hate the new quote feature.

 

Ok,

 

 

But who was the target when we needed a big play through the air?  Tana.  Who went back and returned that punt when we needed him to?  Tana.  Who did the defense KNOW was going to get the ball or go back there because there was no one else?  Tana.  And he was still able to deliver as the stats show.

 

You are correct. He was the guy who did all of those things. He should't have been. He wasn't a strong enough player to have been relied on like that. That's my point.

 

If he were truly able to deliver given the role he was asked to play here he would have had more than three 1000-yard seasons in eight years with the Redskins. This is not 1985. The stats show a player who would have a solid season followed by a mediocre one. Repeatedly.

 

As I said, I like Moss. A lot. In was unfair to ask so much of him, and I think one of the reasons this team struggled for so long on offense during those years was because we expected him to carry the passing game. That was a mistake. Moss is a fine complementary player, but he's not the aforementioned Larry Fitzgerald.

 

You could say what you want about Cooley being a threat, but I've not seen a player in any sport (save for maybe David Beckham) get more of a career out of one great game than Chris Cooley did.  He also benefitted from running shallow routes where Campbell loved to throw.

 

I agree. I believe I called Cooley the most over-rated Redskin of all time.

 

So at the end of the day, you stop Portis and you stop Moss and score 20 points, more than likely you were beating those Redskins teams.

 

Portis was far more consistent than Moss was. You didn't really stop him. The way it looked to me was 'when Moss was on, we scored and we won. When Moss was not on, we did not.' And given how inconsistent our offense was over those years ... 

 

I'm not saying he was ever the best receiver in the game or even one of the best.  Could he have been?  Maybe.  But the fact that you de-value him (even a little, I know you are just arguing semantics at this point) goes to everyone elses point.

 

And I'm not saying he sucked. Moss is one of my favorite players of the past decade. But he wasn't a great player. He was an ok player who played great in spots, who went to one pro-bowl in 12 years, who never had back-to-back 1000 yard seasons, who never scored more than 9 TDs in a season. He was a guy who wasted most of his career playing for a crappy team that over-valued him and thus refused to properly utilize his talents, and he never complained about it. Moss deserves nothing but praise, but if we are talking strictly over- or underrated players. He has been overrated for too long. This past year is the first year I think both the team and the fans figured him correctly.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[WakkaWakka]

There really hasn't been that many overrated Redskins. Most of our players are underrated outside of our fanbase.

 

Underrated

 

1. Darrell Green - underrated in the sense he is very rarely heralded as the GOAT. He is the GOAT of corners. Period.

2. Monk - most see his induction (not Skins fans mind you) as a result of whining.

3. Gibbs - haters I know always bring up the strike years and act like his second tenure was a failure. Nevermind getting that train wreck of a roster to the postseason twice. Oh yeah, and ESPN, #9? Sit on it and spin Nichols.

4.Ethan Albright - http://fauxjohnmadden.lockerdome.com/articles/817866

5. London Fletcher - all time great. Peeps act like he's not even in Ray Ray's league. Well that's bull****.

[Henry]

nevermind ...

[emor09]

Moss is properly rated, I think. He was always open with Jason, and JC never hit him. He finally played with a good QB at age 33 and had a solid year. Imagine if 05-08 Moss played with Griffin III... He would have been like Steve Smith. 

 

Also, he had a competent QB (Todd Collins) for 4 games in 2007. 

 

3/75/0

4/71/1

8/115/1

6/68/1 

 

projected over 16 games 84/1,316/12

[MartinC]

How can Doug be consisdered overrated?????  What he did in the superbowl was all he needed to do to never be considered to overrated IMO

To me 'rating' someone based on a single game (however important the game and however great the performance) is the absolute definition of overrated.

This is all personal opinion though so I can totally see why others may feel differently.

[DC9]

First of all, let me say that I really hate the new quote feature.

 

Ok,

 

 

But who was the target when we needed a big play through the air?  Tana.  Who went back and returned that punt when we needed him to?  Tana.  Who did the defense KNOW was going to get the ball or go back there because there was no one else?  Tana.  And he was still able to deliver as the stats show.

 

You are correct. He was the guy who did all of those things. He should't have been. He wasn't a strong enough player to have been relied on like that. That's my point.

 

If he were truly able to deliver given the role he was asked to play here he would have had more than three 1000-yard seasons in eight years with the Redskins. This is not 1985. The stats show a player who would have a solid season followed by a mediocre one. Repeatedly.

 

As I said, I like Moss. A lot. In was unfair to ask so much of him, and I think one of the reasons this team struggled for so long on offense during those years was because we expected him to carry the passing game. That was a mistake. Moss is a fine complementary player, but he's not the aforementioned Larry Fitzgerald.

 

I hate it too... I'd love the old way back, lol.

 

Fair points.  I never said he was a Larry Fitzgerald type and I'd never think of mentioning them in the same breath.  But the fact that he WAS put in all of those roles and was successful when the rest of the team wasn't... and frankly outside of the defense he was playing with a bunch of role players... shows that he is at the minimum undervalued for what he has been able to do.  For me, that's the same thing as underrated. 

 

Just because he shouldn't have been doing them doesn't mean he didn't or couldn't.  Because he did.  And let's not forget who was throwing him the ball all of those years.

How can Doug be consisdered overrated?????  What he did in the superbowl was all he needed to do to never be considered to overrated IMO

To me 'rating' someone based on a single game (however important the game and however great the performance) is the absolute definition of overrated.

This is all personal opinion though so I can totally see why others may feel differently.

 

What are you talking about?  47 is a hall of famer!

 

[Hitman21ST]

Thanks for posting that video DC, one more I'll add to the underrated list: Marcus Washington. I loved watching him play and his energy was contagious. He was another guy that always brought it and more often than not turned in a big play at an important time, and his talent was wasted on teams that could have and should have been much better.