WT: Redskins have some pieces that fit, some that don’t (Haslett quote)

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Oh I agree, the candidate to be in coverage of the 2 is Kerrigan. But he still looks a little stiff to me and admittedly, is still learning and adjusting. That's the problem with the 34, drafting 43 guys with your number 1 pick, and kind of hoping they excel in pass coverage.

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So what does every other 3-4 team do? You do realize that only about 3 or 4 teams in CFB play the 3-4 right? How are they getting their 3-4 players? Why are we the only team that can't convert a 3-4? Oh right, the other 3-4 teams don't have Jim Haslett coaching.

Why are the Colts top 10 in defense pretty much converting their long-time 4-3 cover 2 defense into a 3-4? They didn't even add anyone of note. Because Chuck Pagano and Greg Manusky, who have produced quality 3-4 defenses in Baltimore and San Diego, are better than Jim Haslett.

Again, this is pure biased ignorance. The 3-4 is not the problem. The man coaching it is.

[redskinss]

im sure this has already been mentioned but the biggest thing for me about firing him now is that yes i agree that it wont help our defense this year at least it eliminates any chance of him improving the defense a little and getting another chance next year because of it.

somebody mentioned last night on around the horn that the lakers coach got fired so early because they have a 6 game home streak coming up and they feared they may win most of those and it would be a little fools gold, they knew it wasnt going to work and they cut ties, thats how i feel about haslett.

cut ties now so theres no chance of getting any fools gold for the rest of this season.

[The Tris]

Some counter arguments from Smart Football than might be analogous.

NFL as league of talent over scheme: in past 2 years Jags and Falcons have had same O coaches (effectively) in Mularkey and Dirk Koetter...

Re: Falcons/Jags: As Buffett said, when mgmt w/ reputation for brilliance meets a biz with rep for bad fundamentals, it's biz who keeps rep

DVOA OFF:

2011 ATL (Mularkey) 12

2012 ATL (Koetter) 8

2011 JAC (Koetter) 31

2012 JAC (Mularkey) 31

Now this might be more an argument that even a good coach can't do much with poor talent, but the point is the same - talent weighs more than coaching.

I don't think Haslett is even an average coach, but we are too determined to make this an either/or issue. We need a new DC and improved personnel. Only addressing one is a recipe for mediocrity.

[Oldfan]

...I don't think Haslett is even an average coach, but we are too determined to make this an either/or issue. We need a new DC and improved personnel. Only addressing one is a recipe for mediocrity.

My estimate is 80/20 -- talent-to-coaching in the importance ratio. I see below average talent and below average coaching. But, there's no gain to be made firing Haslett until we have a much better replacement willing to take the job. That's the tricky part. I lack sufficient evidence to grade our options.

[CjSuAvE22]

Just face it we screwed up our secondary by letting 22 and 30 go.....just face the facts people it wasnt rocket science we had nobody to replace them...maybe now as fans we should realize the worth of our own...if D hall is let go like many of you would like all be it hes a head case WHO is going to replace him.

[The Tris]

My estimate is 80/20 -- talent-to-coaching in the importance ratio. I see below average talent and below average coaching. But, there's no gain to be made firing Haslett until we have a much better replacement willing to take the job. That's the tricky part. I lack sufficient evidence to grade our options.

Firing Haslett midseason would only bring catharsis. There is no option (much less better) on staff or on the street at the moment.

Prudence calls for playing out the string, and having a formal interview process in the offseason with successful 3-4 coordinators or 3-4 positional coaches. Then having that person on staff to evaluate the roster and assist in free agent signings and draft selections.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 01:53 PM ----------

Just face it we screwed up our secondary by letting 22 and 30 go.....just face the facts people it wasnt rocket science we had nobody to replace them...maybe now as fans we should realize the worth of our own...if D hall is let go like many of you would like all be it hes a head case WHO is going to replace him.

According to PFF, Landry is a worse rated SS than Doughy or Gomes. GOMES!

[RandyHolt]

So what does every other 3-4 team do? You do realize that only about 3 or 4 teams in CFB play the 3-4 right? How are they getting their 3-4 players? Why are we the only team that can't convert a 3-4? Oh right, the other 3-4 teams don't have Jim Haslett coaching.

Why are the Colts top 10 in defense pretty much converting their long-time 4-3 cover 2 defense into a 3-4? They didn't even add anyone of note. Because Chuck Pagano and Greg Manusky, who have produced quality 3-4 defenses in Baltimore and San Diego, are better than Jim Haslett.

Again, this is pure biased ignorance. The 3-4 is not the problem. The man coaching it is.

Your post is all pure based speculation.

Our talent in the backfield is lacking. Fletch has slowed. We don't feature a heavy NT. We dont even know if Haslet has full control on game day.

Make no mistake that I want Haslet upgraded. But if he doesn't get replaced, and there are no signs whatsoever pointing to it happening, what is grinding on your nerves if posters want to speculate if maybe the 43 may be a better fit for us now.

Don't we show a lot of 4-3 fronts, or looks? I know we did last year.

Why do we do that, could it be its a better fit for us? Maybe, enough for people to talk about without being labeled ignorant?

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Make no mistake that I want Haslet upgraded. But if he doesn't get replaced, and there are no signs whatsoever pointing to it happening, what is grinding on your nerves if posters want to speculate if maybe the 43 may be a better fit for us now.

Because it's just that - speculation. You keep saying that we made a mistake by "converting 4-3 ends into 3-4 linebackers" - every 3-4 team does that. Cofield isn't the biggest NT in the world, but not every successful 3-4 team has a 350 pound behemoth manning the position.

Don't we show a lot of 4-3 fronts, or looks? I know we did last year.

Yes, but how will more 4-3 looks help? Jenkins, Cofield and Bowen have changed themselves physically to fit the 3-4. We're missing a rush end and Kerrigan is a bit too light to play DE atm. We don't have a legitimate 4-3 LE on the roster atm. The roster is a 3-4 roster right now. So why should we go back? It's not like we're going to hire the 4-3 version of Chuck Pagano who coached a Super Bowl caliber defense in Baltimore.

How will going 4-3 improve the backend?

Why do we do that, could it be its a better fit for us? Maybe, enough for people to talk about without being labeled ignorant?

Your evidence for "it could be a better fit for us is" that "I hated it from the beginning, and our defensive struggles mean it's obviously the FRONT as opposed to every other factor involved!". You're not being objective, because you haven't given an objective reason we could be a better 4-3 team than a 3-4 team.

[skinzplay]

Haslett should be happy that he has a job coaching in the NFL. There's a reason he was coaching in a now-defunct league. Next season, he will either be coaching at the college level or working as a linebacker coach in the NFL. No more coordinator jobs for him, and certainly no head coaching jobs.

[skins island connection]

The common denominator in this duiscussion is Haslett. Bottom line is, he wasn't any good any other place he was at, and the same is certainly rearing its ugly head here.

Regardless of whether we switched to a 4-3 or stayed at 3-4, Haslett is NOT the guy for the job. The season is on the brink of being mathematically eliminated from any playoffs, so its not going to hurt anything whatsoever to let him go now.

Does anyone actually believe he will be able to do better with better players? Ask Pittsburgh, they'll be glad to tell you...

[Leonard Washington]

I always thought Haslett was a bad coach---hence the sig. However I thought he was supposed to be a high energy guy who could get guys fired up. I don't see that at all. He looks like he's waiting for a bus on the sidelines. I'd like to see him get in guys' faces and challenge them to succeed.

There are a few guys we could cut on defense and they would never play in the NFL again....Golston, Doughty, and Fletcher. You can probably add M. Williams and D.Hall to that list as well.

[CjSuAvE22]

Firing Haslett midseason would only bring catharsis. There is no option (much less better) on staff or on the street at the moment.

Prudence calls for playing out the string, and having a formal interview process in the offseason with successful 3-4 coordinators or 3-4 positional coaches. Then having that person on staff to evaluate the roster and assist in free agent signings and draft selections.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 01:53 PM ----------

According to PFF, Landry is a worse rated SS than Doughy or Gomes. GOMES!

Do you honestly believe that??? the jets as a team rank 6th vs the pass....where does the Gomes Doughty team defense rank??????

[Springfield]

This fan base is much too quick to blame the coaches and much too slow to blame the players.

Coaching? Personel? They both suck. The schemes may suck but the truth is that there is no scheme that will make this group of guys look great (or even average).

[Lavarleap56]

Do you get the feeling the players have Shanahan's back and want to turn this thing around, or is the majority of the team just kind of in a funk? I guess what I'm asking is does this team seem to have the heart, desire and chemistry in the locker room to go out on fire this year rolling into next year to right the ship or will they just continue sinking?

Some guys on defense have had issues with Haz going back to last season. This year has not got any better and a few guys are not even on speaking terms with him. Team as a whole wants to win and if Shanny can get it turned around some of the issues will die down. When your team is winning its hard for players to really question the program, we are not winning so a lot of questioning. I hope they can turn it around but I hear some vets on the team are frustrated with the back to back shanny/haz comments. How they play sunday will tell you a lot.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 11:08 PM ----------

We dont even know if Haslet has full control on game day.

Make no mistake that I want Haslet upgraded. But if he doesn't get replaced, and there are no signs whatsoever pointing to it happening,

1. Haslett has full control..

2. Some talk that If the D doesnt improve by thanksgiving they may make the move to Raheem.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 11:12 PM ----------

This fan base is much too quick to blame the coaches and much too slow to blame the players.

Coaching? Personel? They both suck. The schemes may suck but the truth is that there is no scheme that will make this group of guys look great (or even average).

You must have missed last season then..

[authentic]

The schemes may suck but the truth is that there is no scheme that will make this group of guys look great (or even average).

I wouldn't say that the talent is perfect. it surely needs an upgrade at quite a few places. But its not as bad as you're implying. I'm of the opinion that if we had an adequate DC, we would be a middle-of-the-pack defense, instead of being at rock bottom. Coaching accounts for ALOT. don't get it twisted.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Some counter arguments from Smart Football than might be analogous.

DVOA OFF:

2011 ATL (Mularkey) 12

2012 ATL (Koetter) 8

2011 JAC (Koetter) 31

2012 JAC (Mularkey) 31

Now this might be more an argument that even a good coach can't do much with poor talent, but the point is the same - talent weighs more than coaching.

I don't think Haslett is even an average coach, but we are too determined to make this an either/or issue. We need a new DC and improved personnel. Only addressing one is a recipe for mediocrity.

I dont agree with that at all. He called a play that double teams their best player. Think about that for a minute. Could he have given strict instruction to Fletch to tell Madieu to play deeper? Sure. There's a ton of variables there we can throw in. But I dont think playcall itself was bad at all.

Haslett is getting a lot of unfair blame IMO. We have a bunch of backups that are expected to play like starters on D when in reality there's maybe two players max on this defense that could start on 80% of the teams in the league.

Bottom Line: No one is blame-free for the defense. Not Haslett, Morris, Hall, Wilson,Willliam, Jenkins, Bowen, etc. Nor is the offense for all their 3-&-outs, and dropped passes, sacks leading to changes of possession. The longer this defense is on the field the more it gets exposed and exploited. This is a team performance and it's getting old that we always single out Haslett.

Agree with thoughts behind these^^

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 04:40 PM ----------

This was a team that had an average level of talent on defense heading into the season. We knew our secondary was going to be our weakness, and we were relying on a 37 year old linebacker to stay in his prime.

This is what happened: we lost our two starting safeties, meaning we are now starting backups for the duration of a season, backups that would be hard pressed to find a job anywhere else in this league. Perhaps as veteran special teamers.

DeAngelo Hall continues to regress. He is now, according to some metrics, the worst starting cornerback in football. He has regressed 3 consecutive years now, and he has passed the point of no return.

London Fletcher has hit the wall, and has been the cause of just as many negative plays as positive plays this year. We have regressed at this position.

We lost our best defensive player, Brian Orakpo. Take the best defensive player off any team -- Revis off the Jets, Haden off the Browns, etc. -- and that defense generally struggles.

We lost another starter on the defensive line.

What was supposed to be the strength of our defense, the front 7 + pass rush, has been depleted, has little depth, and has been average at best.

What was suppose to be the weakness of our defense, our secondary, has been depleted, has little depth, and has been absolutely terrible.

The players make the plays. The players are missing tackles, the players are allowing receivers to run by them, the players are missing assignments, the players are having mental mistakes. We've seen defensive coordinators look great one year and average the next (Mike Zimmer, Gregg Williams) and vice versa (Rob Ryan). It comes down to players making plays, and we've had way too many failures on way too many plays to be consistently successful in this league, which is ever evolving.

Thankfully, we're set to be as aggressive addressing defensive issues this offseason as we were addressing offensive issues last. We added premier players in RGIII, Garcon and Morris, while adding role players like Josh Morgan. We've seen positive development from Trent Williams, Will Montgomery, Logan Paulsen, and the rest of the line.

Getting our injured players back fully healthy, while making equal strides adding talented players at safety, cornerback, the line and maybe another inside linebacker, and I would bet that we'll be a much better defense next year than we were last year.

Haslett isn't the problem.

[KCClybun]

Do the players deserve some of the blame? Yes. The defense isn't full of guys who are going to make the Pro Bowl, and outside of Josh Wilson there's not a whole lot of guys who would elsewhere in our secondary. So is their an argument to be made that talent if effecting things? Yes.

Here's the problem with that; the Indianapolis Colts are transitioning to a 3-4 defense. They have a TON a new pieces on defenses; basically their whole line is revamped, all their linebackers are different, Freeney and Mathis have never played linebackers, and their secondary has, by my count, 1 Pro Bowler in it. Vontae Davis got traded for a ham sandwich from Miami. In fact, their entire secondary is made up of guys who have either been cut and replaced elsewhere.

They have a ton of new talent and guys who are probably playing out of position and over their pay grade on their defense...and yet in the first year of their[/] defense, with a coach who's only been a defensive coordinator for 2 years, they are ranked 18. Not world beaters, but considering all the change on that defense and how bad that defense was supposed to be, it's a minor miracle that defense is playing so well.

We are in the third year of our 3-4 defense. All the talent that we've got, is talent that Haslett wanted. Let's not act like Mike Shanahan forced these guys down Haslett's throat and said "deal with it"; these are players that have been and scoted and that Haslett had absolutely no problem with signing when they got here. And we are on pace to be one of the worst defenses in NFL history.

As for the "we never want to blame coaches, we always blame players" crap, every other week someone gets the bright idea to either start a new "Should Kyle Shanahan be the offensive coordinator" thread, or bump an old one. And it can be argued that we've spent less money and less draft picks trying to upgrade that side of the ball than we have on the defense.

The common denominator is the coach. Period. Our guys don't play inspired. On defense we go through the motions. They barely seem effected when they make a good play, they hardly look surprised when a bad play happens.

I was watching back Colts vs. Dolphins and I saw the Colts defense run a blitz in their first year that I haven't seen us run all friggin' year. Again, first year 3-4 team, transitioning from a Tampa 2 defense, where many of their d-lineman and players were fast but undersized, and they are running blitz concepts more advanced then **** I'm seeing in the third year of OUR defense.

Complain about how garbage our defensive roster is if you want, complain about the injuries to Rak and Carriker. The common denominator is the coach. None of the players on defense buy what the guy is selling anymore, and you can tell it by their play. If a player like Madieu Williams is godawful (and holy friggin' crap, is he godawful), it is absolutely within Haslett's power to bench him. Mike is not walking over to Jim Haslett and saying "YOU MUST PLAY MADIEU WILLIAMS! YOU MUST DO THIS, YOU MUST DO THAT!"

Haslett is not some innocent flower, and over the course of the season, he's made several comments like this, where it seems as though he's just thrown his hands up. He's borderline complaining about the talent he has, talent that HE APPROVED OF AND WANTED.

The defense belongs to Haslett. The defense is not playing well. And their are defenses with bigger talent problems than we have playing better than us on a weekly basis.

I'll gladly accept that the talent isn't there. I'll accept that the secondary is a mess, I'll accept that the offense hasn't helped the defense out the last couple weeks (though I would be remissed if I didn't add that the offense has given the defense huge leads more than once this season only for the defense to piss it away and put a ton of pressure on the offense), I'll accept all that.

But there's a big huge problem with the defense, and it couldn't be more obvious who the main culprit is if he walked around with an exclamation point floating over his head while he screamed "I AM AT FAULT FOR THE TERRIBLE DEFENSE!".

[Springfield]

I wouldn't say that the talent is perfect. it surely needs an upgrade at quite a few places. But its not as bad as you're implying. I'm of the opinion that if we had an adequate DC, we would be a middle-of-the-pack defense, instead of being at rock bottom. Coaching accounts for ALOT. don't get it twisted.

It's as bad as I'm implying. I can't name all of the starters on our defense and it's been over a decade since I couldn't do that. This defense is short about 7 players to even make it competitive.

[Wyvern]

.... we are not winning so a lot of questioning. I hope they can turn it around but I hear some vets on the team are frustrated with the back to back shanny/haz comments. How they play sunday will tell you a lot.[COLOR="Gold"]

If some of the vets dog it on game day -- I hope they are released. And I'd also hope they'd be released at a time when it's not easy for them to get signed by another team.

Sorry, if you're getting paid -- you give it your best effort.

[Lavarleap56]

If some of the vets dog it on game day -- I hope they are released. And I'd also hope they'd be released at a time when it's not easy for them to get signed by another team.

Sorry, if you're getting paid -- you give it your best effort.

I don't think any player dogs it on purpose bro. Takes a lot to get up the intensity level to match your opponents in a nfl game. Its hard to fake that if your not confident in what you are doing. Fake intensity in a game lasts till adversity hits then its out the window.

[moondog]

I don't think any player dogs it on purpose bro. Takes a lot to get up the intensity level to match your opponents in a nfl game. Its hard to fake that if your not confident in what you are doing. Fake intensity in a game lasts till adversity hits then its out the window.

That is exactly what I am talking about. This team has given it their all for a long time. The ability has been there and it has been evident at times when we play up to the level of better teams. But it has been blatantly obvious for a long time that the players lack the chemistry or intensity on the field because they don't truly believe. It happens every year when we get off to a nice start at the beginning of the season but as soon as adversity hits, the team crumbles because they don't truly believe - in themselves, the coaches, the schemes...I don't really know but it is all to obvious that trust and belief is not there.

As soon as this year, if this team found that trust in themselves, I would not be surprised to see us rattle off 5-6 wins in our last 7. But I have not seen any reason so far to warrant much hope for that and I was trying to kind of confirm that with what you've seen in the locker room. Shanahan has done an excellent job bringing in more talent and high character guys, I'm actually quite surprised that the team has not found that elusive chemistry/trust/belief by now and I'm beginning to wonder if they ever will or if we will simply continue to waste the time and talent we've put into this roster.

Life's battles don't always go to the stronger or faster man. But sooner or later the man who wins, is the man who thinks he can. - Vince Lombardi

[WilberMarshall]

The problem with the Defense remains the Secondary. The coach of the Secondary is Hakeem Morris. The break down a lot of times has to do with communication.

[Hitman21ST]

That sounds more damning than what Shanahan said. What MS said is something that happens every week. We are always evaluating the players. What Haz said sounds like he's pointing the finger at the players, essentially saying "it's not my fault". I don't care how bad the team is, coaches should never point the finger at the players for the on-field product. That WILL lose the locker room.

[Sticksboi05]

I met Jim Haslett's niece this weekend. Didn't have the heart to tell her her uncle is a terrible d-coordinator.

[KDawg]

The problem with the Defense remains the Secondary. The coach of the Secondary is Hakeem Morris. The break down a lot of times has to do with communication.

Considering you think his name is "Hakeem" I'm not sure how much stock to put into your comments