Teller Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I'm watching a story on 20/20 about the killing and maiming of albinos in Tanzania. They do it because they think their body parts and hair have magical properties, that the medicine men can use to make potions and such. (Or that's just their excuse, and they want to butcher people who are different in some way.) We've all also heard the stories of genital mutilation, the evils of Mugabe in Zimbabwe, the pirates in Somalia, starvation in Ethiopia. It seems like the entire continent is stuck in a part of history that the rest of the world left behind ages ago. I know that this isn't the kind of thread that most of you would expect from me, and I expect the obligatory jokes. But in all seriousness, what can be done? How much give-a-damn, and how much money would be required to bring Africa into something resembling the 21st century? These are human beings, living under the worst conditions imaginable in a lot of cases. Why does the world's give a **** seem so completely broken? What would it take to change that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think your thread would benefit if the title didn't suggest serious ignorance (I'm not trying to be offensive, believe it or not, but making a very real point) about what a vast continent Africa is and what a range of societies and conditions exist there, and those that have changed back and forth over time.Were it me, I'd try to tighten up the title a little since you want to fous on the obvious troubled areas of extreme violence that have been crazed for many recent decades. I think being aware of the disparity and variety within the continent itself is a start for the most intelligent conversation about the nature of what the worst problems are, where, and why. To your general topic, I get it and often wonder about it. The areas of Africa where there has been such violence seem very resistant to long-term stability and progressive governing and make a "wild west" allusion seem woefully inadequate. And in many cases, it would appear that what desired wealth is there that lures the typical international meddling/usury involvement is such that great social reforming efforts need not be part of the process (and there are the deeper implications of racial/racism factors) so they are not invested in it. "Warlords" or whatever a governing a given man/group is labeled, seem too often happy enough to provide accesses to the material with only simple self-enrichment and consolidation of power being the price demanded. There can certainly be other sociological/environmental aspects unique to various regions --truly "law of the jungle" type stuff in some areas and pure predatory survival of some cultural development--that are all playing a role. But it's a nightmare in these areas and other than steadily and relentlessly chipping away at it, I sure don't have a clue. Offering more aid in all forms is fine with me, but the budgetary issues we have in our own home and the difficultly (always existent but seemingly much magnified in these regions vs others) of "who do we help that isn't going to turn out just as bad" makes it all the mega-mess being agonized over by those who care. Good topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Interesting thread. But perhaps not one I should really comment on because some of my views might be taken out of context. I will say this. As an American, We need to fix this place and help our people first and foremost. The stuff that happens there and all over the world in certain areas baffles me. I am amazed at the culture and traditions that some of these people live within...even here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 First thought: As a nation in terms of nation building, nothing. The world doesn't have the stomach or the budget to fix all the problems found within an entire continent. I've worked closely with charities that had programs in Africa. The entrenched corruption, cultural "challenges", and lack of infrastructure is significant. Second: Help the people that are well positioned to effect change in Africa. Charitble groups are active and they help a lot of people. It often feels like a bandage on a bullet wound when looked at as a big picture but to those reached it can be EVERYTHING. Individuals matter and helping as many as possible is a worthy an honorable endeavor even if the causes can't be remedied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Nothing. You can't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Improve the leadership...but how is difficult question(and one best answered by others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Support the African Union in there attempts to solidify their continent. Countries like Nigeria are soon to become economic powerhouses because of the amount of oil and other valuable raw materials left untapped in Africa. A lot of countries in Africa have something to build on, and if given time and support, the continent will pull itself out the dark ages. I know it sounds very optimistic, but it's true we can't save Africa, Africa has to save itself. And Africa can save itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I haven't studied Africa a whole lot other than the northern part and some various stories whenever something catches my eye in the news. From what I have seen though, there are a lot of different situations going on in the continent. Some places are much worse than others. I'm pretty sure the US is involved in aid and other efforts in some of these areas, though I don't know how much or all of which ones. Of course there is always more than can be done, especially in raising awareness and individual and charity work. I don't really know enough about any of the issues you mentioned to offer much advice. Off the top of my head though: The pirate issue seems like one that could be cut down on with some sort of regional collaberation using international coordination and intel. There may be some of that going on already. Mugabe is pretty old and I don't think he'll last much longer physically...not certain what happens when he goes though. I think he already has a successor in mind, but successions can go in unexpected directions some times. No idea about Ethiopia. I think you mentioned having a pastor from there before though. Is there more info you can share about the situation there? Genital mutilation...hmmm...not sure about that one. I don't know there is much that can be done about that other than education. I suppose people could work to get it outlawed in countries that it's done in. Not sure how much that will do to stop it in local areas though. Anyway, just some thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojobo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 This is more about the economic situation in Africa rather than the war/genocide problems they face but Dambisa Moyo has a lot of good work out there about the negative effects foreign aid has on propping up bad governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Yep, too often we enable the continued disasters by some of our humanitarian efforts,as well as harming developing economies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Keep the white people out, especially the Dutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 even the white Africans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 even the white Africans? yes, even the albinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I don't know a whole lot about the subject but I'll throw in my two cents. It's important to remember that much of Africa was colonial holdings of European countries 100 years ago. This a continent of largely oppressed people. Slavery might have ended here in the 1850's it still continued throughout many parts of the world until the late 1900's. The people of Africa (at least the ones that the OP is concerned about) by and large don't know of a life with democracy. It will be a long and hard road for the continent of Africa. Change can happen, as others have said. Africa has a wealth of resources. It's important that these plentiful resources aren't usurped by just a few warlords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think your thread would benefit if the title didn't suggest serious ignorance (I'm not trying to be offensive, believe it or not, but making a very real point) about what a vast continent Africa is and what a range of societies and conditions exist there, and those that have changed back and forth over time.Were it me, I'd try to tighten up the title a little since you want to fous on the obvious troubled areas of extreme violence that have been crazed for many recent decades. I think being aware of the disparity and variety within the continent itself is a start for the most intelligent conversation about the nature of what the worst problems are, where, and why. This doesn't sound like you. Africa has more places that desperately need to be fixed than anywhere in the world. IMO, the title is pretty valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 This doesn't sound like you. Africa has more places that desperately need to be fixed than anywhere in the world. IMO, the title is pretty valid. I have no idea how you get there--of course it sounds like me. Maybe you didn't read carefully. If you don't get it, don't put it on me. I'll repeat a bit. I said a lot more than just "quibbling" with the title (though there is room for that). What I am saying is Africa is not just "one thing" and if you're going to understand the problem you have to start there. I'm used to many Americans not evening knowing that continental Africa includes Egypt, for instance. Or that, just as I indicated, that there are quite modern and progressive places doing well, just as there are the abysmal cores of misery and slaughter. As I also mentioned, even some of countries there that are in desperate straits now have at other times been prosperous. If you don't know these things the conversation remains pretty one-dimensional and uninformed. It's an ignorance that impedes the best discussion or suggestions for problem-solving. You want regional strengths to be a fundamental part of positive help for change. Africa is HUGELY diverse (and just huge) in every single way. Getting what's right in Africa to be part of solving what extra-continental nations agree is wrong with Africa is key. I also made it clear how horrifying the issues were---so I can only say you're the one who really seems out to lunch, if you forgive me, in your reaction. I have no personal problem with that--it's an anomaly. I know you as a poster. Must be crossed wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 This is more about the economic situation in Africa rather than the war/genocide problems they face but Dambisa Moyo has a lot of good work out there about the negative effects foreign aid has on propping up bad governments. not to nerd things up, but the Prime Directive comes to mind :geek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I have watched a few documentaries on the area(s), and have friends whose families are originally from places like Somalia and Kenya. I also had a substitute teacher 10-12 years ago, who told us a story about how he escaped to the US in the early 90's after his wife and 2 kids were murdered ( I don't remember the name of the country). I think that the reason why things haven't changed in a lot of those places is because the warlords in charge don't want them to change. Any foreign aid that comes into a lot of those places is taken from the people who need them, and given to the people in charge, and the soldiers that they employ, while the regular people suffer. A lot of those small armies are armed out the ass as well, due to the arms trade, so any attempt to completely "liberate" an area, would probably take an initiative similar to that of Blackhawk Down, or even larger, a small scale war. And to many, it just isn't worth it, sadly. It is also very easy for the warlord's/dictators in charge to turn the people that you're trying to help against you. When you see the amount of sheer squalor that those people live in, I'd imagine that it wouldn't take much to turn them into full fledged killers. All that would need to happen would be for someone to say, "Hey, the evil Americans (insert other country as well) are here to kill us all. If you fight for me, I will give you anything you need (with food being the best recruiting tool)." They'll use propaganda to keep everyone in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Clearly a job for Bobo, errr... Bono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Okay, this will sound wrong or sound to much in the missionary way of thinking, but I think one of the overall answers is education. Education, tools, and opportunity fixes a lot. Can we help with this? The other thing is, if you want to "fix" some of these problems you have to work at them multi-generationally just like Israel and Middle East probably can't be solved with one treaty or one effort, but if there ever will be a solution it will be a multi-faceted one that is mostly internal, but supported by external tools over a series of decades. I think what we are saying in the evolution of India is promising... once very third world and now one of the great emerging economies. Education was the key. Education, opportunity, tools and access defeats ignorance and hate eventually. In the short run ignorance and hate is always more potent... eventually though, hopefully, it retreats against the press of something better. America rose because of those things and now it's having a rough patch because it has been squandering those assets. We're farming out our opportunity and our tools. Our education is neglected in too many sectors. Thus, you see the slow lowering of our standards and possibilities and the circling of the wagons to protect what's left. We're a long way off from despair, but we are heading there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I understand that this may well be a diversion of topic. But I see the thread title, and I have to confess that the thought that occurs to me, is to wonder if maybe it would be a more efficient allocation of resources to attempt to "fix" Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I understand that this may well be a diversion of topic. But I see the thread title, and I have to confess that the thought that occurs to me, is to wonder if maybe it would be a more efficient allocation of resources to attempt to "fix" Mexico. I don't know that another country can fix another country, but Mexico needs help in a pretty serious way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFHOzarT78Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 we already allocate quite a bit of both funds and policy towards Mexico(I suspect far greater than we do Africa) I also suspect most is just as missguided and ineffective/counterproductive though.(I think they have leadership problems as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCkSoULjA Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 As long as the rest of the world can steal all there gold, diamonds, and oil I dont think fixing Africa is on there agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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