Africa. What can be done?

[Thiebear]

Three straight Administrations have some great policies for Africa. Good Reading:

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/sub-saharan_africa/

On behalf of the American people, USAID responds to development opportunities in Africa to improve access to and delivery of life-saving health interventions, to support more accountable and democratic institutions, to start businesses and foster an environment attractive to private investment, and to stave off conflict and strengthen communities. USAID has missions in 23 sub-Saharan African countries that deliver assistance within their countries, as well as four regional missions that deliver assistance for cross-border activities, especially with regards to economic growth and security. In total, USAID assistance benefits 49 African countries totaling $6.4 billion in 2010, including $1.6 billion in humanitarian assistance and food aid.

Africa is a major focus for three Presidential Initiatives: Feed the Future to promote food security and economic growth; the Global Health Initiative to strengthen health systems; and the Global Climate Change Initiative to reduce vulnerability to and the effects of climate change. USAID support for democracy, good governance, peace and security provides a foundation critical to sustaining progress in these Presidential Initiatives. USAID responds quickly to humanitarian needs resulting from conflict, drought, and other crises, while building long-term, sustainable systems.

This has been one of my favorite initiatives that i've talked about on here for years and years. There are people out there that do a damn fine job at being good to others.

Jill Biden, Vice President Joe Biden's wife, greets workers at a UNHCR screening center on the outskirts of Ifo camp outside Dadaab, eastern Kenya, 60 miles from the Somali border, on Aug. 8. Jill Biden on Monday is visiting the world's largest refugee camp, Dadaab, where tens of thousands of Somali famine refugees have arrived in recent weeks.

A feel good story about Going Out Of Business because they got the refugees home.

http://www.unhcr.org/4f0718269.html

UNHCR opened an office the same year in the northern town of Gulu to manage 251 camps and provide protection to an estimated 1.84 million internally displaced people (IDPs) in 11 districts. Since then, more than 1.8 million have returned home on their own. To ensure sustainable returns, the UN refugee agency worked with the local authorities to provide basic services in home villages. This involved building community access roads, police posts, schools, health centres and clean water sources and putting in place a public administration infrastructure.

UNHCR also engaged agencies such as the Food and Agriculture Organization, USAID, Care, World Vision and the Northern Uganda Social Action Fund II for longer-term development in areas of return.

[sportjunkie07]

i dont think the "fixing" of Africa needs to come from outsiders. they need a strong leader from within.

[Teller]

This doesn't sound like you. Africa has more places that desperately need to be fixed than anywhere in the world. IMO, the title is pretty valid.

I take his point. Egypt, though recovering from their recent upheaval/overthrow, is a first-world country. So is South Africa, though they have more than their share of issues as well. The topic IS very broad. But I think the problems over there are too. It's difficult to narrow the topic and still address all the things I'd like to talk about. But Jumbo is right. It's also difficult to accomplish much with such a broad OP.

I don't know why that 20/20 story hit me so hard last night. But it got me thinking about all of the other issues going on their too. And though I expected the answer to be "the world doesn't have the resources to turn things around," I thought it warranted discussion.

As an aside, I commend ABC for doing the story last night. It seems to me that the American news media generally bury their head in the sand when it comes to Africa. I think a lot of the failure to give a damn in the United States is due to the lack of reporting on the situation there. Most of what (little) I know about Africa as a whole, comes from the BBC and other international sources.

[The Sisko]

Jumbo is right that Africa is not a monolith and different countries there have very different problems, needs, and levels thereof. Even so, there are a couple of things that I'm aware of that could help. First is U.S. govt. farm and commodity subsidies. In many cases these subsidies artificially alter the market prices of goods such that farmers in developing countries are put out of business. We then replace their former vocation with aid packages that may or may not reach the intended recipients.

Second is well meaning private charities that unwittingly do the same thing. For example, the textile sector was wiped out as an employer in some developing countries by charities that imported donated clothing to give away.

Ultimately many international efforts to "fix" Africa are IMHO doomed because of the crappy political situation many African countries find themselves in due in part to the legacy of colonialism. I suspect it will probably take many more generations for these countries to work through these issues and fix it themselves. In the meantime, anything we can do to support this kind of root cause fix would be the best course.

[Teller]

Jumbo is right that Africa is not a monolith and different countries there have very different problems, needs, and levels thereof.

I understand why my post gave that impression, but I'm aware of that. Egypt is on my must-visit list, and I don't do well in places that aren't "refined." Hell, I found myself terrified in parts of southern WV.

Ultimately many international efforts to "fix" Africa are IMHO doomed because of the crappy political situation many African countries find themselves in due in part to the legacy of colonialism. I suspect it will probably take many more generations for these countries to work through these issues and fix it themselves. In the meantime, anything we can do to support this kind of root cause fix would be the best course.

That's an excellent point I hadn't thoroughly considered. I wonder if there's lingering resentment of legitimate aid efforts, for that reason.

[HailGreen28]

Education. And publicly available communication with the outside world. TV, radio and most importantly internet.

When people are educated and can see the difference between say different sides of the berlin wall, or between the arab dictatorships and the rest the world, that's when the people change things. The same would apply between starving in war lord africa, and the rest the world including some places in africa.

[Bang]

About 130 billion annually in aid from USA and other nations.

I agree education is the key.

But it seems to me that even before that can take place, you have to get by all the thieves that stand between the aid and the people who need it.

Education is also key for our side of the issue, because it's different there in that not all the people view their countrymen as allies. There are tribal issues that run longer than national pride. To work with them and have them understand what must be done, we must endeavor to understand them and their internal society as well. We can't expect to transform them into something we are when they're not that to begin with. They need to step into the modern world with both feet, but they have to wear their own shoes while they do it.

~Bang

[Jumbo]

I appreciate the signs (especially from HH who could have taken it the wrong way) that I wasn't being totally dense, which is a risk I take on every serious post.

As some of the more recent comments indicate, getting a "continent-wide" platform, or agreement, or support base would be even more challenging than a call to do the same in "Asia" if you use the standard western-drawn 7-Continent model.

Here's some thinking material just in the form of info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent

It's not meant to be a topical diversion. A better USA understanding of Africa as a whole is worth considering as it really does pertain to how to address what we're all really wanting to focus on---those areas of savage, long-term, slaughter and oppression. Take Kenya. There are two wonderful vacation destinations (and more of course) I know first hand in Kenya, very western-European/N. American friendly and not isolated little "islands" of stability but parts of numerous such regions, and most people here I talk to about are amazed to hear tourists aren't all machete targets.

Africa is the world's second largest and second most populous continent, after Asia. At about 30.2 million km² (11.7 million sq mi) including adjacent islands, it covers 6% of the Earth's total surface area and 20.4% of the total land area.[2] With 1.0 billion people (as of 2009, see table), it accounts for about 14.72% of the world's human population.

The continent is surrounded by the Mediterranean Sea to the north, both the Suez Canal and the Red Sea along the Sinai Peninsula to the northeast, the Indian Ocean to the southeast, and the Atlantic Ocean to the west. The continent includes Madagascar and various archipelagoes. It has 54 fully recognized sovereign states ("countries"), two states with limited recognition and 9 territories.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa

My biggest wish, having friends from here that are very active in Central Africa (from Nigeria to Ethiopia), is to continue to seek more guidance and leadership in promoting change and providing aid from the closest "stable" regions to the trouble spots. And that's a very difficult task.

There is a very wide range of attitude on such matters in the continent (from strong desire to help, to indifferent, to I'd rather see that area sink into the earth and every shade in-between) as you go from one place/government/culture/group/people to another. In many ways it would be like England or France wanting to aid Native American's plight during our civil war and trying to get support/agreement/productive results (a poor analogy, but a try), but even more complex.

That's why Burg's self-effacing comment is relevant and important---education all around--for those being helped and for those wanting to help. When I used the term "ignorance" in this thread, I am trusting folks to remember the word has more than one definition and the literal one is no insult--just a state. I am extremely ignorant (by my standards) on carpentry, navigation, soccer, and many places in the world just to begin a long list.

Like I said earlier, I don't feel I have any answers other than the patient and slow chipping away and being willing to give and learn---in this case, specifically to help those abysmal situations that moved HH and have moved many of us. I'm sure many of you remember how you felt first reading about Belgian (Leopold II) actions in the Congo in that time, and The Heart of Darkness. There is no quick fix, any more than in many other places. Just resolve and actually making the personal effort.

This is one area I think the UN is a very helpful humanitarian entity (and it could be so much better).

[Mr. Sinister]

I think education is the key as well, but it's not like you can just walk into some of these places with aid, a few hundred UN peacekeepers and textbooks, and not expect to be in for the fight of your life (not directed at anyone here). I think that there would have to be some kind of joint operation to get rid of the guys in charge first, and start from there.

[China]

As long as the rest of the world can steal all there gold, diamonds, and oil I dont think fixing Africa is on there agenda.

Don't forget things like tantalum which are in everybody's cell phones and the control of which contributes to things like the the war in the Congo. So the next time you're on your phone think about how you contribute to the strife in Africa.

[Bang]

Don't forget things like tantalum which are in everybody's cell phones and the control of which contributes to things like the the war in the Congo. So the next time you're on your phone think about how you contribute to the strife in Africa.

I need a phone, should i stop using it because they fight over control of the supply without recognizing any form of law?

I think the oenus on ending the strife in Africa is on the warlords who are the cause of the problem, rather than the users of a perfectly legitimate product.

~Bang

[#98QBKiller]

I take his point. Egypt, though recovering from their recent upheaval/overthrow, is a first-world country. So is South Africa, though they have more than their share of issues as well. The topic IS very broad. But I think the problems over there are too. It's difficult to narrow the topic and still address all the things I'd like to talk about. But Jumbo is right. It's also difficult to accomplish much with such a broad OP.

I agree and I understand his (and your) points. Talking about some of the problems within Africa though, I just recently watched the Vice Guide to Liberia series on YouTube which sheds light on some of the deepest, darkest corners of humanity. There are things going on there that no human being should be subjected to, and while I think it's important and eye-opening to realize that there are parts of the world where such atrocities are going on, I want to strongly advise that there is extreme violence that is not appropriate for many (even adult) viewers. So basically, be warned if you choose to watch it, I just felt that a warning is appropriate whenever mentioning it.

Anyway, after seeing that documentary, it truly makes me question why some of the world's more prosperous first-world countries couldn't have banded together and expended their time and energy on fixing this very broken part of the world. And this is just one country within Africa, many of which could really use some sort of intervention from the first world. I'm not saying that I have any ideas on what to do, but there are places in Africa where humanity is in a state that violates the most basic of human rights.

I'm used to many Americans not evening knowing that continental Africa includes Egypt, for instance.

My first reaction:

:doh:

but at the same time I can't say I'm surprised.

[Hubbs]

I have an idea for HH's next thread:

"War. Your thoughts?"

(I'll pre-empt everyone who would have provided the most obvious answer: What is it good for? )

[skinsdomination09]

I have watched a few documentaries on the area(s), and have friends whose families are originally from places like Somalia and Kenya. I also had a substitute teacher 10-12 years ago, who told us a story about how he escaped to the US in the early 90's after his wife and 2 kids were murdered ( I don't remember the name of the country).

I think that the reason why things haven't changed in a lot of those places is because the warlords in charge don't want them to change. Any foreign aid that comes into a lot of those places is taken from the people who need them, and given to the people in charge, and the soldiers that they employ, while the regular people suffer. A lot of those small armies are armed out the ass as well, due to the arms trade, so any attempt to completely "liberate" an area, would probably take an initiative similar to that of Blackhawk Down, or even larger, a small scale war. And to many, it just isn't worth it, sadly.

It is also very easy for the warlord's/dictators in charge to turn the people that you're trying to help against you. When you see the amount of sheer squalor that those people live in, I'd imagine that it wouldn't take much to turn them into full fledged killers. All that would need to happen would be for someone to say, "Hey, the evil Americans (insert other country as well) are here to kill us all. If you fight for me, I will give you anything you need (with food being the best recruiting tool)." They'll use propaganda to keep everyone in check.

this is a serious question and not sarcasm lol, what places in Africa are doing well?

all I can think of is South Africa and... maybe the western coast?

and just my 2 cents

I don't think the title is ignorant at all - as the entire continent has faced strife since the days of imperialism and colonization when careless boundaries were drawn.

[twa]

My first reaction:

:doh:

but at the same time I can't say I'm surprised.

Can you really blame them when most Egyptians don't consider themselves African?

[Teller]

I have an idea for HH's next thread:

"War. Your thoughts?"

I was thinking more along the lines of "Hubbs. Who needs him?"

[Hubbs]

I was thinking more along the lines of "Hubbs. Who needs him?"

Well, obviously Mad Mike does, I know he couldn't live without me. But now we get to my follow-up question:

"West Virginia. Is there a reason we shouldn't blow it up and start over?"

:evilg:

[Teller]

Well, obviously Mad Mike does, I know he couldn't live without me. But now we get to my follow-up question:

"West Virginia. Is there a reason we shouldn't blow it up and start over?"

:evilg:

As soon as I can get back to the panhandle, I will. I've had more than enough time back in the DPRM.

[Harwich Hog]

I think it's important to think about things in the context of time.

Until the "land-grab" that happened toward the end of 1800s, external interest in the continent did not really exist - outside of the major trading centres that is. So you're looking at just over a century of being exposed to outside culture, customs and expectations. Perhaps 5-6 generations.

Some parallels can be drawn with Britain about two thousand years ago. The "civilising" process was very very slow. Debateably as much as a 1000 years. Of course, it can be argued that with the resources at our disposal today there is little excuse for the process to be slow. However all that suggests to me is that it may have nothing to do with those resources and it's down to good old fashioned time and a little patience. Sure the are things that can be done, and is being done, to help - aid, education etc. And that should continue.

Ultimately though, we have to be patient.

India is an interesting parallel also. Not necessarily because they needed "civilising" - but from the perspective of handing over power post-independence. Colonialism tends to get a bad rep - justified in many cases - but what it gave India was a whole class of people with good knowledge of how to run the country due their close affiliation with the Raj. The important thing was that they were completely incorruptible. Something you can't say the same for a lot of the African countries, where it was often opportunistic officials who took power. Again it's a time thing. India was a colonial possession for 300 years. At the time of independence African nations, barely 60.

[#98QBKiller]

Can you really blame them when most Egyptians don't consider themselves African?

From a geographical point of view, I feel like I can blame them.

[twa]

From a geographical point of view, I feel like I can blame them.

a map is just lines on a piece of paper

[Larry]

a map is just lines on a piece of paper

And flags. .

[Jumbo]

this is a serious question and not sarcasm lol, what places in Africa are doing well?

all I can think of is South Africa and... maybe the western coast?

and just my 2 cents

I don't think the title is ignorant at all - as the entire continent has faced strife since the days of imperialism and colonization when careless boundaries were drawn.

Well, I think that most of your post there reflects a fair amount of ignorance (literally speaking) in a rather solidly self-defeating manner. :pfft:

I see your two cents and raise you a Canadian quarter.

---------- Post added March-4th-2012 at 04:25 PM ----------

Can you really blame them when most Egyptians don't consider themselves African?

I think they should have to face the same challenges I do when I admit that Texas, Arizona, New Jersey, W. Virginia and much of the south are part of the USA.

(if I missed offending anyone, I apologize)

And wait until I bring up the whole "Asia--Why can't Korea, China, Japan, and those other places get on the same page?" or it's ugly step-brother "Euraisa--Seriously, how big do you have to be on a map?" And I suggest form now on we do what many "overseas" do and call everything from Cape Horn to the Arctic Circle "The Americas" :pfft:

I now return you to the much more adult and serious nature of this topic and admit one more time that I am a turrible turrible human bean.

[The Sisko]

I think they should have to face the same challenges I do when I admit that Texas, Arizona, New Jersey, W. Virginia and much of the south are part of the USA.

(if I missed offending anyone, I apologize)...

I now return you to the much more adult and serious nature of this topic and admit one more time that I am a turrible turrible human bean.

...but a damn funny one though. That's gotta count for something.

One other thing. I'd like to throw out a couple of shameless plugs for charities that I personally support precisely because of many of the problems with aid mentioned in this thread:

http://www.kiva.org/about

http://www.heifer.org/ourwork/our-approach

They're not the only ones using this type of approach but they're two of the best IMHO.

[skinsdomination09]

Well, I think that most of your post there reflects a fair amount of ignorance (literally speaking) in a rather solidly self-defeating manner.

I see your two cents and raise you a Canadian quarter.

Well if part of the west coast of Africa and South Africa (the country) are the only places not ravaged by war, starvation and other calamaties on the second largest continent, then title can't be THAT ignorant.

but anyways enough with the technicalities lol