9/11 Conspiracy Film: Loose Change

[vegeta613]

OK, let's look at this logically. First, no revisionist history. In that first hour we weren't sure what was going on, All of us watching on TV were trying to come to grips with the possibility there was an attack, and there was absolutely nothing by way of any official word that was what was indeed happening.

Ok I like Logic so let me try

Dude Norads basic operating procedure was to intercept jets they lose contact with

Once they lost contact with the jets they knew something was wrong and when planes start running into major American Iconic Buildings I just have to assume bells had to be going off in there brains because they went off in mine

First, it is not a ten minute ride to Andrews unless you're in a helicopter.

As to whether they were defending the Capital, until 9/11 had you ever seen anti-aircraft guns positioned around DC? Ever? Do you think they've got those things in place to simply shoot down any jets that steer too close?

They don't for one, and for two, the Pentagon is so close to National Airport, they would be shooting down so many planes every single day that it's not feasible.

Dude it's not that far at all for one (check for exact miles)

Again why would we need anti aircraft anything when we have Fighter Jets at these bases?

I'm sure with the tec we have it wouldn't be to hard to pick out the Hijacked plane from the rest

50 minutes after the Twin Towers were hit this plane just came in and hit the pentagon 50 minutes

So your assertion is that within 50 minutes they should have anti-aircraft batteries in place, and they should begin shooting at air traffic that comes. Have you ever been down there? Have you ever seen how close planes fly to the Pentagon on their approach to National? It seems you don't know, or you'd realize how impossible this demand of yours is.

Norad knew these planes were Hijacked and in the year before 911 they intercepted 67 planes that either strayed of course and or lost communication and they did this all within 20 minutes all over America

Using this they should have got to the first plane before it hit the first Tower

But you're telling me they couldn't protect the pentagon 50 minutes after the 2nd tower was hit?? almost 2 hours from when the planes were hijacked?

Well since regardless what i say you are predisposed to not believe it, I'll just say it's because Godzilla said so.

There. Now my answer makes as much sense as your question. (A question requests an answer. Your question requests only one answerr, the one you agree with. And sorry, that simply isn't how a smart person tries to discover anything. So, we'll just leave it at that. Because Godzilla said so.)

I don't get what your saying here

They can release a bad angle of the plane or whatever hiting the pentagon but not a good one

I said that doesn't make sense cause it doesn't

So I'm just supposed to believe they can't release a clear angle because it's the pentagon.........

Yea sure I guess that about sums it up

Because by showing you the angle of more than one camera, anyone with a background in mathematics can begin to triangulate the location of those cameras, which represents a security breach.

Because by showing you how and where the plane hit the most secure building in the world, it can give clues to others on how to do it better.

That is a sad attempt to explain why, very sad

So they give us a ****ty angle where we can't see anything for this reason?:doh:

As I said, you can question all you want. But you have to be prepared to get the answer. You're not. You're prepared to reject the answer until it conforms with your theory. That is exactly scientically backward.

How so?? Because I don't bow down to BS explanations that make no logical sense?

A Jet liner flying a few feet off the ground going 400 miles an hour hits the most defended building on the planet almost an hour after America knew we were under attack leaving a very small amount of wreckage and a very small hole in the pentagon that doesn't match up to the plane at all

Then they give us a angle in which we can't tell what hit the building

Yea, case closed

9/11 was a huge event. It affected thousands and thousands of people, not just here. It has been investigated by so many organizations that are not connected with this giant all encompassing 'government' thing that conveniently is the mastermind behind all the answers you're not prepared to accept.

If you apply logic to your premises, it simply does not stand up to simple deduction. So many reputable scientists and science organizations have told you what happened. A couple of dudes on YouTube have them all scooped, I guess.

~Bang

They spent 15 mil investigating 911 and 80 million investigating Clintons sex life

You do the math

[sleazye]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions...If you believe the official reports that's your prerogative...If you lean on the other side of things and believe that this atrocious act was a conspired event maybe not by our government but by the powers that be, this is also your prerogative...

I believe the latter is what happened, and for those that believe otherwise and keep stating that the theories expressed in the various 9/11 movies have been debunked please enlighten me or provide some examples of these debunked myths...

take a look at any of the links to studies found within this thread. i personally like the popular mechanics one. And yes I have seen the responses to the responses and they are the most flimsy pieces of misinformation you will ever come across.

Also, I feel like all of the personal accounts of seeing the plane would come across as pretty solid pieces of evidence.

Here's the thing about the 9/11 truth movement. they have 50 different accounts of what they think happened. It's the old "throw everything against a wall and see what sticks." If you really sit down and analyze what Loose Change is hypothesizing, you would quickly realize that it would be impossible to pull it off.

Conspiracy theorists love to have the feeling that the powers that be are omnipotent and capable of pulling off the most incredible hoaxes. You would think that if any of these 9/11 truth videos held any water, they could probably make sure they weren't online longer than a minute. These people are really just crying out for reason in a screwed up chaotic world.

[Bang]

Just a whole bunch of the usual

Well, I tried.

As I said, you obviously won't ever stop coming up with angles until you get the answer you've already decided is true. I've given you perfectly good reasoning, reasoning supported by science and the scientific community, independent and those paid for by government commissions. (Yes, hard as it is to believe, independent firms researched all of this. It's the penultimate event of our time. You think NO one else but the government and these Truther organizations bothered to look into it? )

You've gotten the answers, and you've chosen to ignore them.

At which it makes further discussion pointless.

~Bang

[Skins24]

It's the same with all the other so called "truthers" Bang.

They COMPLETELY ignore logical and scientific evidence if it doesn't support their theories. They are lying if they say they're searching for the truth. They're only searching for things that support what they believe. Period. If they say otherwise it is a lie.

Doesn't make sense anyway. Like the Pentagon. Why would you go through all the trouble of having the plane hijacked, having it headed toward DC, then make it magically disappear into thin air with everyone watching it from the ground and above it and then making a missile appear out of thin air and having that crash into the Pentagon instead? Makes no sense. You would have to be mentally insane to believe some of this stuff.

[Henry]

skinsfan07, this board has been around for nine years, and I've been around for all of them. Every single question you raised in this thread has been raised and addressed a dozen times here. If people seem cranky, it's because they've already heard your 'evidence' (by the way, not knowing the answer to your own question isn't really evidence of anything but your own ignorance ... just so you know) and have had it debunked countless times. Loose Change puts out a video every few years. When bits and pieces of evidence they pose is proven false, they change their video. They've admitted to doing this and they've been doing it for years. At this point, someone posting 'Guess what? 9/11 was all a hoax!' and citing Loose Change as the reason, well, it's sad and funny but nothing more. If you want to keep this going enjoy, but I can tell you that this thread isn't nearly as convincing as the first dozen versions around here.

And those weren't all that convincing.

[jtyler42]

take a look at any of the links to studies found within this thread. i personally like the popular mechanics one. And yes I have seen the responses to the responses and they are the most flimsy pieces of misinformation you will ever come across.

Also, I feel like all of the personal accounts of seeing the plane would come across as pretty solid pieces of evidence.

I have looked at the links and what makes those studies any more valid than the studies and actual science that was provided in the films? The Popular Mechanics thing has been debunked as well and has been shown to be "flimsy pieces of misinformation"...Here are a few articles on that.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm

Here's the thing about the 9/11 truth movement. they have 50 different accounts of what they think happened. It's the old "throw everything against a wall and see what sticks." If you really sit down and analyze what Loose Change is hypothesizing, you would quickly realize that it would be impossible to pull it off.

If you don't believe that the powers that be could pull off what happened...What makes you believe that 19 Muslims would be able to pull off such an undertaking? I realize the opposite, in that if you sit down and think of what we were fed by our government as the "official story" it just does not add up.

Conspiracy theorists love to have the feeling that the powers that be are omnipotent and capable of pulling off the most incredible hoaxes. You would think that if any of these 9/11 truth videos held any water, they could probably make sure they weren't online longer than a minute. These people are really just crying out for reason in a screwed up chaotic world.

Do you include many of the families of people that were killed on 9/11 that don't believe the "official story" as Conspiracy theorists...

Why would the videos or articles be pulled when the majority of people believe whatever they're told by our government anyways whether it makes sense or not? Then those same people will go so far as to ostracize people that question what happen or attack them, call them stupid, crazy, label them conspiracy theorists or worse...

I think you have it backward, the people that believe the official version of things are the ones that are "just crying out for reason in a screwed up chaotic world"...They realize that to believe different would crush their world and the way they view our government and our so called democracy...They would be forced to realize that our government as constituted rarely has our best interests at heart...

[brandymac27]

Well, I'm not God so I don't know what happened. But, I will ask this question. If you don't think 9/11 was an act of terror, who exactly do you think was the mastermind behind it and why? I mean George Dub has the IQ of a string bean. No way in hell he pulls of something of this caliber. So who's left and why would they do it?

[jtyler42]

Well, I'm not God so I don't know what happened. But, I will ask this question. If you don't think 9/11 was an act of terror, who exactly do you think was the mastermind behind it and why? I mean George Dub has the IQ of a string bean. No way in hell he pulls of something of this caliber. So who's left and why would they do it?

I'm not God either don't claim to be! 9/11 was definitely an act of terror I just do not believe that it was carried out by the group of 19 Muslim terrorists our government has provided. They are just the face given to an imaginary enemy

I also don't think W or Cheaney were the mastermind's behind 9/11(I do believe however that they knew what was going to happen). I believe the masterminds behind 9/11 were the global/central banks/corporations that actually control this country and other countries throughout the world...Why? You ask...To further their plan of one world government or global government...They already have the European Union in place, and now The North American Union and Asian Union aren't far off...The rights of citizens in what WAS the freest country on earth(the USA) are being taken away by passage of THE PATRIOT ACT and other bills which allow our government to spy on, intimidate, and infringe on the constitutional rights of AMERICANS without cause or justification in the name of keeping us safe. The International war machine is in full effect(we're currently in 2 wars and it's possible that could be in 3 in the near future) and has been for 6yrs now so the Millitary Industrial Complex(defense contractors, The Pentagon, Congress, and the Executive Branch of our government) is raking in the dough and getting rich. These are just some of the reasons I see and others see...It's hard to believe but it's happening right in front of our eyes...

[PokerPacker]

I just like to think outside the box. If you think that the government wouldn't lie to you than that's embarrassing as well.

its not about believing the government wouldn't lie. ****, I know the government lies to us all the time. That, however, has absolutely nothing to do with the issue we are dealing with. You may as well make the argument that not only do aliens exist, but that they must have contacted earth and our government but the only reason we don't know is because the government lies.

hell, as long as we're thinking outside the box, democracy is a lie. we are really controlled by Kang and Kodos. The reason gas prices are so high is because we are exporting the majority of our oil to their home-world. 9/11 was executed by them so they could invade a country that they didn't frame for the terrorist attack so that they could gain control of that country's oil-fields to fill their home-world's oil-demands.

[Rocky52Mc]

Well, I'm not God so I don't know what happened. But, I will ask this question. If you don't think 9/11 was an act of terror, who exactly do you think was the mastermind behind it and why? I mean George Dub has the IQ of a string bean. No way in hell he pulls of something of this caliber. So who's left and why would they do it?

It goes into a lot of things. Adding to the post already before me to this, I will add -

Money. War = Money, and to say..."What do you mean!?!? We spent trillions of dollars on this war! Sure..we have. This country has. The button pushers didn't pay for this. We did.

9/11 is a conspiracy. You see people say things like "Oh..you silly goose! You're still posting this video!" It's by no means a new claim and it by no means should be labeled "fake". You as a person have the right and the right mindset to distinguish the facts between the fiction for yourself by looking at it from both angles and even further if you can.

To know and understand means to educate yourself on your own time and through personal research - the best research, and if you don't do that, then it's best if you don't comment. It's too easy to point out the ignorance in people who are blindly claiming things just because they seem to have their mindset already figured out.

I don't even know where to start with this whole pile of information in my head about this. It can go from anywhere from the amount of money people received from placing money against the pre-9/11 attacks to companies earning billions of dollars through dethroning the man we put into office and killing him and then rebuilding his own damn country by overpricing construction.

Not to mention 9/11 was the reason behind going to war in the first place..it was the only reason, and the only way we could. Look at Pearl Harbor. We needed a catastrophic event to have a reason to go to war by rallying this country and having them behind it. It's too damn late and I don't feel like going into this anymore, I've explained this process to too many people.

[chaddukes]

This piece of wreckage looks real, not planted!

But unfortunately, it is not from a Boeing 757!

Official reaction to this photo / part, was to claim it is a HoneyWell rotor from the rear 'APU' engine in a Boeing 757's tail-section.

But, after studying these high-resolution photos, HoneyWell, the manufacturers of the supposed APU engines, said: "there is no way that is any part of a APU engine we manufacture"

Karl Schwartz, former GOP Stratagist, patmoz nanotechnologies

-inet security systems CEO

recognizes the part as a JT8D Turbo from from a US Air Force A-3 Skywarrior.

Dude, you don't need to recap the movie for us. Most of us have seen it. Unfortunately, everything that you are bringing up has been thoroughly debunked. But, you don't really care about answers.

[chaddukes]

Popular Science/Mechanics wrote a huge article with actual experts that completely debunk every single point you try to make.

Don't bother. I posted the link to that article back on page one and neither of them have read it yet.

[chaddukes]

I don't see how in the world it is a military secret

Military secrets aren't secret because they are protecting information. They are secret because they are protecting methods and sources. So, if the pentagon has a videotape of the plane that they won't release it is because that tape would reveal thier methods or security, gaining info, or in addition to the plane shows other classified info.

But, the fact that literally thousands of people actually saw the plane still doesn't resonate with you?

Oh, did you read the Popular Mechanics piece yet? What about the NIST piece?

[chaddukes]

I have looked at the links and what makes those studies any more valid than the studies and actual science that was provided in the films? ...

You're 32 years old. You don't get the benefit of youth. If you think that what Dylan Avery and Alex Jones have proposed is science then you don't understand what science is at the most basic level. There is nothing scientific about it. And you should be embarrassed for falling for it. If you really thought critically about the situation and took your ego out of it you would arrive at the same point most of us have.

[ntotoro]

Hell, I saw the plane as well as a co-worker. We were both on our way to work heading down 395 wondering why the plane was flying so low.

15 minutes later at work, we were asking each other "Is it the Pentagon on fire" after seeing huge plumes of smoke.

[brandymac27]

To know and understand means to educate yourself on your own time and through personal research - the best research, and if you don't do that, then it's best if you don't comment. It's too easy to point out the ignorance in people who are blindly claiming things just because they seem to have their mindset already figured out.

Not to mention 9/11 was the reason behind going to war in the first place..it was the only reason, and the only way we could. Look at Pearl Harbor. We needed a catastrophic event to have a reason to go to war by rallying this country and having them behind it. It's too damn late and I don't feel like going into this anymore, I've explained this process to too many people.

But the problem is that all of the evidence that conspiracy theorists have provided in this thread have been debunked over and over again. So, am I supposed to believe what a few people argue is the truth, or am I supposed to believe scientific evidence that has proven that these conspiracy theories are junk?

If you have some evidence to the contrary, I'd be happy to look at it. The problem is that the evidence that people keep posting has already been analyzed and refuted hundreds of times by people who know what they're talking about.

And as far having a reason to go to war, since when did George W. need a reason to do anything?

[Sticksboi05]

I'm not God either don't claim to be! 9/11 was definitely an act of terror I just do not believe that it was carried out by the group of 19 Muslim terrorists our government has provided. They are just the face given to an imaginary enemy

I also don't think W or Cheaney were the mastermind's behind 9/11(I do believe however that they knew what was going to happen). I believe the masterminds behind 9/11 were the global/central banks/corporations that actually control this country and other countries throughout the world...Why? You ask...To further their plan of one world government or global government...They already have the European Union in place, and now The North American Union and Asian Union aren't far off...The rights of citizens in what WAS the freest country on earth(the USA) are being taken away by passage of THE PATRIOT ACT and other bills which allow our government to spy on, intimidate, and infringe on the constitutional rights of AMERICANS without cause or justification in the name of keeping us safe. The International war machine is in full effect(we're currently in 2 wars and it's possible that could be in 3 in the near future) and has been for 6yrs now so the Millitary Industrial Complex(defense contractors, The Pentagon, Congress, and the Executive Branch of our government) is raking in the dough and getting rich. These are just some of the reasons I see and others see...It's hard to believe but it's happening right in front of our eyes...

So I guess the government also collaborated with Bin Laden when he blatantly said Al Qaeda was responsible....

Oh, and the moon landing was shot in a TV studio!!!!!

Btw,9/11 was the reason we went into Afghanistan where we believed Al Qaeda was not Iraq. As dumb as this current war is, it had to do with Saddam not 9/11.

[Mad Mike]

Says the guy who is a genius compared to me. :notworthy .

Fixed that for you.

[Xameil]

Whose crying? lol I just don't feed into all the bull**** that our corrupt ass government feeds us. If that's a problem sue me.

Sure facts have proven 9/11 to be a terrorist act and facts have proven it to be self-inflicted.

I'm one who believes the facts that it was self-inflicted. If that is a problem, too bad, won't change my opinion.

Now you have a nice night Bang. P.S. I still love your cartoons.

ok...I am assuming you didn't read any of the actually research that was done by the Labs that pretty much are the world standards.

So...show me some proof from a REPUTIBLE source of your claims...go ahead. If you can show me something that is from a reputible scientific or engineering firm to prove your point...go ahead...find something.

YOU CAN'T!!!! IT DOESN'T EXIST!!!! THIS WAS NOT SELF-INFLICTED!!!

[Mad Mike]

It's amazing how twisted the human mind can get. Thousands upon thousands of witnesses... They must be in on it. Never mind that there are hundreds of thousands of REAL engineers who understand that the towers fell because steel melted and warped under hundreds of thousands of tons of pressure (BTW thats why the second tower hit was the first to fall. - It was hit much lower and had twice the weight pressing on those heated beams). You morons would rather believe some idiot with no engineering degree because they made a movie with spooky music.

Besides being one of the most intelligent posters on the board, Bang is a genuinely nice guy. Me? I'm a prick. Just ask anybody. So I'll tell you... If you believe the conspiracy theories.... You are a moron. You should not be allowed to vote, and it would probably be best for the human race if you did not breed.

:2cents:

[Xameil]

What proof did any of you bring to the table exactly??

guess you didn't read did you....

here ya go again YOUR PROOF

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

[Xameil]

Yeah why can't we question it? I'd like to know that too.

No one said you can't question it, but when FACTS have been given to you, and eye-witnesses you STILL refuse to accept it. You stand there with your arms crossed and say "nope, it still doesn't fit...those FACTS are irrelevant"

You 2 are just making fools of yourselves.

We are asking you for a reputible source to what you in your pink and purple-dotted sky world think REALLY happened.

[rdsknbill]

This was posted on here about a year or two ago. Way to get the "Super scoop" there Sherlocke! :finger: To the OP

[Obibyn23]

These threads are like advertising, if you stop paying attention and replying, they go away.

Says the guy who replied to the thread

[sundown]

Then after W felt good about getting away with this he then started work on his magic weather machine to create Katrina and then flew to New Orleans to plant bombs with Dick Cheney right?