The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[Mr. Sinister]

He posted in the NBA thread recently.

Are you saying that the vast majority on this thread aren't mainly WWE fans?

 

I'm saying that just because they may be, it doesn't mean they are clueless about the other promotions/territories back in the day, which you constantly imply.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Ok, lets toss it out there.  Everyone, what's your age and when did you start watching wrestling.  First live event (depending on age, includes house shows, etc.).  

 

I'll be 39 in June.  I started watching wrestling in 1980-81, NWA was the first I watched.  Flair, Anderson, etc.  Back then, when Jim Crockett Promotions still booked house shows all over the Carolinas, in recreation centers (gyms), etc.  My first live event was a JCP event, but was in that odd transition time back in 1984.

 

I remember the main event was Tully Blanchard vs. Dirty Dick Slater.  So I was age 9, standing in a huge crowd in the local public rec center gym, where I spent most of my time at as a child playing basketball, tennis, etc.  I remember Dirty Dick coming out flipping off fans, calling us mother ****ers, etc.  

 

My first thought was, man, this is a lot different than what's on TV.  I remember having fun watching it, booing the bad guys, etc.  I wanted to see the Midnight Express, but they were not booked.  If I remember correctly, Jim Cornette showed up with his tennis racket during one of the matches.  It might have been the main event, its been 30 years, so I can't quite remember all the details.  

 

 

Edit:  You have to remember, being a kid seeing Jim Cornette on TV with the Midnight Express, I thought it automatically meant I would get to see them that night, which I didn't lol.  I had no understanding of how it "worked" back then.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[CrypticVillain]

I'm saying that just because they may be, it doesn't mean they are clueless about the other promotions/territories back in the day, which you constantly imply.

I'll admit, I am pretty much clueless compared to everybody else who regularly posts in this thread.lol

Anything after 2000, I can talk about. 95-99 is cloudy. Anything before that is only stuff I have seen on reruns and whatnot.

[TexasSkinsFan]

If you're a fan of workers, I'm shocked that Dean Malenko didn't get a mention!

 

Dean Malenko was a good worker, but his light burnt out too quick for me.

[DM72]

Dean Malenko was just too bland imo. I still ask the question. Is there really 1000 holds in wrestling?

[The Evil Genius]

Dean Malenko was just too bland imo. I still ask the question. Is there really 1000 holds in wrestling?

 

He knew the ones that were forgotten.

 

 

The problem was, he had no personality on the mic.

 

 

 

Ok, lets toss it out there.  Everyone, what's your age and when did you start watching wrestling.  First live event (depending on age, includes house shows, etc.).  

 

I'm 39 also, and it was about the same time (1979?) that Sgt Slaughter came to my small ass town in Southern WV for a wrestling promotion (AWA?) and I got to meet all the wrestlers behind the scenes because my Dad was a teacher at the high school at the time. I remember how frightening those dudes looked then.

 

I was hooked on WWF, NWA/WCW/ GLoW/ etc.. through high school. Stopped watching in college and now only follow it sporadically.

Edited April 24, 2014 by The Evil Genius

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

He posted in the NBA thread recently.

Are you saying that the vast majority on this thread aren't mainly WWE fans?

 

Try me when it comes to the NWA.

 

I'm a wrestling junkie man. I don't care as much about the current product but I know a good amount about every promotion. NWA wasn't my favorite to watch on YT, DVDs, WWE Classic but I know my **** man lol. 

I'm 21. First event was Raw is War in October of 2000. Rock, Austin, HHH, Foley, Kane, Taker, Y2J all there. 

 

I've been to nearly a dozen in total with about 3 PPVs. 

Ok, lets toss it out there.  Everyone, what's your age and when did you start watching wrestling.  First live event (depending on age, includes house shows, etc.).  

 

 

[Mr. Sinister]

Ok, lets toss it out there.  Everyone, what's your age 

 

 

 

25 (will be 26 in July)

 

 

 

and when did you start watching wrestling. 

 

'93

 

 

 

 First live event (depending on age, includes house shows, etc.).  

 

Raw Is War, October '00 at the then MCI Center in downtown, DC (still have the Brahma bull foam finger somewhere probably in my mothers house). My dad got free tickets from his job. It was the episode where Austin gave Mick Foley the Stunner at the end of the brodcast when he was getting impatient with his "Investigation" into who ran him over at Survivor Series '99.

 

That was also the episode where Rock clowned the hell out of Kane and Benoit, saying Kane secretly wanted to find them "A nice quiet place together" where he could fondle Benoit's little dick.

 

 

It was definitely weird to see how everything goes before the show is live (we were there at like 7:30 to see all of the dark matches) and while on commercial break, along with the pyro display when the show goes live at '9. Pretty memorable episode.

I'm 21. First event was Raw is War in October of 2000. Rock, Austin, HHH, Foley, Kane, Taker, Y2J all there. 

 

 

 

 

Dude we must have gone to the same Raw lol. I bet your dad or somebody was holding you up over his head or something lol. I wouldve gone to Backlash a little earlier that year but I was on punishment

[TexasSkinsFan]

 

For Gallen, about 8 years before that match you posted with mention Wahoo teaching how to chop!

 

I wouldn't say he was ever the guy. Hogan was always the guy. Warrior wasn't ever the guy, either. But if Hogan had disappeared with an injury, either Savage or Warrior were positioned to be the guy.

 

Wrestling was different back then. The main stars used to wrestle "duds". Guys who were hired to get destroyed. Saturday Morning Superstars was based on wrestlers, mid card, low card, main event, wrestling against duds. It built all of the guys up so that when they feuded with one another it was big. Sometimes as a main event you'd get two stars against each other. Sometimes it would simply be Hogan or someone of that caliber squashing someone.

 

Those duds were called "jobbers" because they would do the "job" and lose. Al Snow made a gimmic out of this in ECW in the 90's

 

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2008/11/10/snow_al2.jpg

 

After Wrestlemania 6 Ultimate Warrior was positioned to take the company from Hogan for good, at least that was the plan. By then the world of wrestling was tired of Hogan and if it wasn't for the fact that Warrior couldn't sell out arenas like Hogan could then he would have kept at it. In those days TV ratings weren't as important but box office ticket sales mattered. Then the WWF ran two different groups of wrestling shows. One show would be in one town and have one stable of wrestlers and be the "A" show, then at the same time they would run another show and it would be the "B" show. The WWF knew that the "A" show would sell out places like MSG and carry the load for the "B" shows which normally wouldn't sell out. The "B" shows would sell out if a draw was there and that's why the Warrior got the push he did because in 1988 the "B" shows were selling out because of him. Normally the "B" shows would be used for setting up future "A" stars and for the Wrestling Challenge squash shows. Hogan would run the "A" show for almost the entire decade but after Macho failed to capture the same ticket sales that Hogan was drawing they had to look elsewhere. The "B" show headlined by Warrior vs Rick Rude at the time was doing better sales then the show headlined by Macho so they naturally went to the Warrior and set up the company for his to run.

 

Warriors run worked for a few months but fans grew tired of the Warrior quickly. When Warrior took over the ticket sales dropped so much that the WWF had to go in another direction again and this was not expected or planned for. Also at this time the Government was after the WWF for steroids and the Warrior and Hogan were front and center for that investigation so he was removed and if not for the Gulf War where they turned Sgt Slaughter heel they would have gone somewhere else other then to him. Eventually the steroid scandle passed and they went back to Hogan.  

 

 

That made pay-per-views so much more interesting. You never saw these guys square off. Even the mid carders. It would be a good way to get things to be more interesting nowadays. The problem is, the fanbase would NEVER be okay with duds. They want to see all the stars.

 

Savage was a WWF champion. He won the tournament at WrestleMania... I think it was 3. Hogan was out "injured" (I don't remember if it was legit or not). He was positioned to be the guy, and he was when Hogan wasn't wrestling.

 

It was Wrestlemania 4 when Macho won the title. The WWF in 1988 was in trouble with the US Government. Hogan was phased out because of this. They wanted a less steroid looking athlete in control. I actually have the WWF magazine from 1989 (they released them months after actual events) where McMahon speaks about this investigation. Because Hogan ratted on McMahon they wanted him out of the business but he was just too popular to let go and Macho was not as popular as a face as he was a heel then. Macho was quickly turned back to what he was great at, leading to Hogan going over at the 1990 Wrestlemania 5 and then turning it over to Warrior in 1991. 

 

 

He put on outstanding matches time and time again. The retirement match with Warrior was awesome. Feuded with Hogan.

 

I don't care if a guy was THE guy, to be honest. Triple H was the guy for a short amount of time and I STILL think he was one of the best. Top guy is just silly talk to me.

 

Savage was the man. Another guy classically wounded by WCW's booking.

 

Savage's story is likely never to be understood. As a worker he was in my eyes top 5 all time. As a heel he was wild, his voice was so unique it was used on commercials for decades after his last match. He is iconic. However something weird happened in the mid 90's which haunted his career then and still does today. It's known that he was overly protective of Elizabeth doing terrible things to her like locking her up like a prisoner and it's known that he broke his word with McMahon never to leave the WWF when he split in '96. What isn't known is what he did that was so bad that he was black listed from the WWF that still keeps him out of most videos and why he isn't in the Hall of Fame yet. Some speculate that he boned Stephanie. I don't buy it. I think its deeper then that. What it is though is weird and only the McMahons know. The reason he isn't more revered then he is today by fans is by design. If they knew how great he really was they would all love him still.

 

 

I'm just not a huge Nash guy. Good on the mic. Great tag team. One of the top guys for sure. I've just never really gotten into him. Much like Michaels. If I were ranking the Kliq it would be:

 

1. Triple H

2. Shawn Michaels

3. Scott Hall

4. Kevin Nash

11. Sean Waltman

 

No knocks on any of them. The top 4 are all in my top 25... Just never really loved Nash.

 

Guys like Big Bossman were cool too. I wouldn't put him on my top 25, but I remember he had some epic feuds with the Mountie and Nailz. Vader is a very unappreciated guy too. Dude could go. He nearly killed Foley a few times, likely because Foley told him to just let 'er rip.

 

Never a huge kliq guy myself, The Kliq is all that was wrong with the WWE in the late 90's and early 2000's decade. I personally never wanted to see matches of Vince McMahon vs Stephanie McMahon or ever any of the McMahon's in the ring. Shane was wild, lucky that sob didn't kill himself. But that all started because of this group, I would have been spared of that if not for the Kliq. Triple H is ok, Shawn Michaels was before the Kliq so I don't put him in there, Hall was a drugged out drunk who shouldn't have been on TV since his days of Razor Ramone, Nash was a huge guy with bad knees who was so boring but so good at politics he ruined WCW, and Xpac was a clown. I do not think half of what happened in the early 2000's goes down without the negative influence of the Kliq. They missed a huge mark when they turned the Invasion into the McMahon story. If they hadn't done that and the McMahons stayed out of it this could have been the best days in WWF history.

Edited April 24, 2014 by hankersonfan

[TexasSkinsFan]

Vader is my favorite non Undertaker big man.

WWF effed him up so bad smh

And I love Savage as well. I just don't have him in the top 10. Top 20 for sure

And damn, why the hate for X PAC? Lol

 

Vader? I loved Vader in the early 90's when he was managed by Harley Race and took on Sting.

[Mr. Sinister]

Oh its time.... IT'S VADER TIME

 

Vader was awesome.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Mr. Sinister

[TexasSkinsFan]

Oh its time.... IT'S VADER TIME

Vader was awesome.

Ever hear his shoot where he got into a real fight with Paul Orndorff? Amazing stuff about his exiting WCW

[spjunkies]

Dean Malenko was just too bland imo. I still ask the question. Is there really 1000 holds in wrestling?

No, there are 1004 holds

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpNmTNkuYQA

[DM72]

Vader? I loved Vader in the early 90's when he was managed by Harley Race and took on Sting.

Vader and Sting headlined the worst card I have ever attended live. It was a WCW show at the Skydome in Toronto. It was an afternoon showand I swear, you'd think those guys had a time limit to be in Canada. You could tell they were in a hurry to get out of there.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Vader and Sting headlined the worst card I have ever attended live. It was a WCW show at the Skydome in Toronto. It was an afternoon showand I swear, you'd think those guys had a time limit to be in Canada. You could tell they were in a hurry to get out of there.

 

Sounds like a house show where they might have been double booked for a night gig. In those days that was common for companies to do when they are in another country. Another thing they used to do was dark match non televised title changes. They would change the title in one place and then give it back in another before coming back stateside and never informing the US audience. If this was the match you saw I bet you would have remembered it better. Thanks to youtube and diehards who remember these guys we can finally see things like this. You are lucky to have seen them in person, I was not as fortunate.

 

First title change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMk4P6NPrVE

 

Switch it back 4 days later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfyBPjSvQRQ

 

We never knew

Edited April 24, 2014 by hankersonfan

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

25 (will be 26 in July)

 

 

'93

 

 

Raw Is War, October '00 at the then MCI Center in downtown, DC (still have the Brahma bull foam finger somewhere probably in my mothers house). My dad got free tickets from his job. It was the episode where Austin gave Mick Foley the Stunner at the end of the brodcast when he was getting impatient with his "Investigation" into who ran him over at Survivor Series '99.

 

That was also the episode where Rock clowned the hell out of Kane and Benoit, saying Kane secretly wanted to find them "A nice quiet place together" where he could fondle Benoit's little dick.

 

 

It was definitely weird to see how everything goes before the show is live (we were there at like 7:30 to see all of the dark matches) and while on commercial break, along with the pyro display when the show goes live at '9. Pretty memorable episode.

 

 

Dude we must have gone to the same Raw lol. I bet your dad or somebody was holding you up over his head or something lol. I wouldve gone to Backlash a little earlier that year but I was on punishment

yeah that was the same show lol.

 

My mom took me. She loved it when Austin stunned Foley and then threw a beer bash lol. Main event was Rock and Rikishi vs Benoit and Kane I believe.

 

I also remembered being terrified by the pyro. Wasn't expecting it to be that loud lol

Edited April 25, 2014 by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Dean Malenko was just too bland imo. I still ask the question. Is there really 1000 holds in wrestling?

#1... Arm bar

[Mr. Sinister]

yeah that was the same show lol.

 

My mom took me. She loved it when Austin stunned Foley and then threw a beer bash lol. Main event was Rock and Rikishi vs Benoit and Kane I believe.

 

I also remembered being terrified by the pyro. Wasn't expecting it to be that loud lol

 

Yeah that **** was deafening. I remember Fink coming out hyping the crowd up and then the lights go out and bam, bam bam bam, pow, bam.

 

I'm also pretty certain there was a hardcore match that spilled out into the concessions area, though I can't remember the participants. I also remember how loud it was when Rock came out. That place exploded. I don't think I blinked during that entire promo.

 

Then Foley hyped up the crowd with one of his "Right  here..... In [insert city]" cheap pops.

[KDawg]

hankerson,

 

The Macho thing is truly perplexing. You have to wonder what exactly happened. Still, he's among the greatest of all time in my eyes. It's too bad he didn't get a chance to mend the bridges before he passed (who knows if it would have been even possible). I think there has to be some solace for Warrior's family, and even for him while he was still living, in the fact that the bridges were repaired and he was back in the WWF/E.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I've only been to one Monday Night Raw and that was back on June, 28th 1999.  And we couldn't have picked a better one.  The Charlotte Coliseum was packed, 23K capacity crowd (in my Jim Ross voice).  We couldn't have picked a better Raw to attend.  We got the Sunday Night Heat taping for free, a couple of dark matches.  

 

We had Edge vs. The Godfather and by pure luck, we were sitting in isle seats in the section that Edge decided to come through the crowd to the ring in.  So, on his way down me and my friend got to pat him on the back.  I just looked at a clip of it and I'm pretty sure I saw one of us, some jackass had a sign up covering us up for the most part lol.  Great match.

 

Rock Vs. HHH, Billy Gun hit rock with a pipe, DQ, match lasted like less than two minutes.  I was extremely disappointed.

 

Jeff Jarret vs Xpac, Bradshaw vs. Billy Gun.  

 

But the best ever was Stone Cold vs. The Undertaker for the WWF Championship where Stone Cold pinned and won the title on Raw, which rarely happens.  That place went ****ing nuts to say the least.  

 

Now, back then was during the attitude era, so it was geared more towards adults.  The King was hilarious man, he would work the crowd before you went live and it was just awesome.  Back when he was having them put lights on chicks with big "puppies", etc.  With that said, before we went live, I remember this hot girl in a skin tight red dress, mid thigh (like one of Godfathers Ho's) was about 2-3 rows behind us, so she was up higher. 

 

Well her and another girl in the next section over, 10 rows below us (lets call her Average Girl) got into a boob flashing war.  It was literally crazy, Average Girl flashes her boobs, their section erupts with cheers.  Godfather Ho bends down, pops both her fake boobs out, our section erupts with cheers.

 

This goes on a couple more times, then Average Girl, lifts her shirt, boyfriend behind her grabs them and shakes at GFH.  Godfather Ho gets angry, she then turns around, bends over, pulls up her dress and shows her business.  Both sections go ape ****.

 

Next thing we know, both of them get in the isle and into a cat fight.  Security bum rushes it and takes both of them into custody and kicks them out.  Which was followed by mass heckling and boos.  This was all before one of the greatest Raws ever even took place.  

 

Sorry to babble on, it was one of the craziest things I've seen at a wrestling event lol.  With all that said, I see why they went towards the PG format.  Has anyone been to any current events?  Is it more kid friendly as far as the crowds go, or is it still a crap shot due to alcohol and crazy people (like a typical NFL game).

Edited April 25, 2014 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Gallen5862]

I am 49 years old. I will be 50 in October. I started watching Wrestleing in the early 70's. I would get the mid Atlantic Championship wrestleing, The Florida Championship wrestleing,, Georgia Championship wrestleing. It was great when matches were on tbs.I saw many matches at Legion Stadium in Wilmington, NC. Sometimes the stars had to wrestle 2 or 3 times during the night. I remember seeing the tv title change twice in the same night. The time limit was 15 minutes since it was not on TV. The challenger won the first  match and was getting ready to leave the ring with the belt. The former Champion demanded his rematch clause right then and there. Jim Crockett was there and told the Referee the former champion was entitled to his rematch. The referee started the new match and the former champion regained his title. The new former champion then demanded his championship rematch clause and they stared the 3rd match in a row. The original champion won this match. Usually when a belt changed hands they would show the footage on how the new champion was crowned. They did not show the belt changes at all and just had the champion say he defeated his opponent at Legion Stadium. 

 

They had the wrestlers use the high school lockers with the faces in one locker room and the heels in another.. It was great seeing the wrestlers come up in their cars. Ric Flair and the Horsemen would come up together.Dusty Rhodes would come by himself. Black Jack mulligan came with Barry Windham. Sgt Slaughter and Rody Piper arrived together. Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood, Chief Wahoo Mcdaniels, The Steiners, Rock and Roll Express etc. 

 

They used the whole football field in fights outside the ring. They used the goalposts etc. A few times fans got involved with no dq or falls count everywhere etc. They even had a couple fans fight when open challenges were made to anyone in the stadium. They also had one championship match with the stipulation if the fan could last 10 minuets he would become champion. The fan lasted 8 or 9 mins by running since it was no countouts. the champion chased the fan all around the football field to get him in the ring.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Gallen5862

[Mr. Sinister]

hankerson,

 

The Macho thing is truly perplexing. You have to wonder what exactly happened. Still, he's among the greatest of all time in my eyes. It's too bad he didn't get a chance to mend the bridges before he passed (who knows if it would have been even possible). I think there has to be some solace for Warrior's family, and even for him while he was still living, in the fact that the bridges were repaired and he was back in the WWF/E.

 

I think it lends a lot of credence to the Savage/Steph rumors. Vince always forgave a ton of **** from different people, so it gives one pause that Savage still is kind of taboo.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I think it lends a lot of credence to the Savage/Steph rumors. Vince always forgave a ton of **** from different people, so it gives one pause that Savage still is kind of taboo.

 

Reportedly Savage's family was talking to WWE about an induction after his death but the hang up was that he wanted the whole clan (the dad and the brother (Lanny Poffo) as well as himself in. Needless to say, neither really make sense in the HOF. 

 

Back in WCW, Savage used his stroke to get his dad in the WCW HOF. 

Edited April 25, 2014 by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

[DM72]

I am 49 years old. I will be 50 in October. I started watching Wrestleing in the early 70's. I would get the mid Atlantic Championship wrestleing, The Forida Championship wrestleing,,Georgia Championship wrestleing. It was great when matches were on tbs.I saw many matches at Legion Stadium in Wilmington, NC. Sometimes the stars had to wrestle 2 or 3 times during the night. iremember seeing the tv title change twice in the same night. The time limit was 15 minutes since it was not on TV. The challenger won the first  match and was getting ready to leave the ring with the belt. The former Champion demanded his rematch clause right then and there. Jim Crockett was there and told the Referee the former champion was entitled to his rematch. The referee started the new match and the former champion regained his title. The new former champion then demanded his championship rematch clause and they stared the 3rd match in a row. The original champion won this match. Usually when a belt changed hands they would show the footage on how the new champion was crowned. They did not show the belt changes at all and just had the champion say he defeated his opponent at Legion Stadium. 

 

They had the wrestlers use the high school lockers with the faces in one locker room and the heels in another.. It was great seeing the wrestlers come up in their cars. Ric Flair and the Horsemen would come up together. dusty rhodes would come by himself. Black Jack mulligan came with Barry Windham. Sgt Slaughter and Rody Piper arrived together. Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood, Chief Wahoo Mcdaniels, The Steiners, Rock and Roll Express etc. 

 

They used the whole football field in fights outside the ring. They used the goalposts etc. A few times fans got involved with no dq or falls count everywhere etc. They even had a couple fans fight when open challenges were made to anyone in the stadium. They also had one championship match with the stipulation if the fan could last 10 minuets he would become champion. The fan lasted 8 or 9 mins by running since it was no countouts. the champion chased the fan all around the football field to get him in the ring.

Damn, I wish I live down south. I bet going to an NWA show back in those days was a good time.

[Gallen5862]

They also use to really have pay windows based on if the Wrestlers won or lost their matches. Occassionaly you will here JBL or other announcers talk about pay windows in the old days. You had less jobbing in the live shows and really no dq or no bars hold etc. They didn't have the safety rules like they do now. Did people know it use to be a referees decision if they stopped a count for a foot in the ropes. It use to be that throwing your opponent over the top rope was a disqualification.Some rules changed after it became WCW,

 

 

It was amazing how many Hall of Fame wrestlers would come to town. The Wrestlers for the most part would stop bye where their own Tshirts and Pictures were sold.They would then sign them.there or you could catch them before the show started.  I was able to get Chief Wahoo Mcdaniels to sign a picture, When he came by the fence to sign pics. I got a chance to talk to Jim Crockett a couple times. 

Edited April 26, 2014 by Gallen5862